NFL 2023

swooshboy said:
Still can't believe you ignored the chance to get 2 FGs. That showed some playoff naivety which they will learn from, although it is a painful lesson.
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There is no right or wrong in that decision. Analytics have it very close as well, so given who is calling that play, there was only going to be one outcome. I'm sure he'd do it again and I can't or won't fault him for that.

Even if you bring in the "momentum shift" argument, no one can categorically state that it was the wrong decision to go for it. It was the wasted time-out on offense which was inexcusable.
 
RobinLFC said:
Brady won the Super Bowl in his first year as a starter.
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Big Ben got to an AFC title game as a rookie and a Super Bowl in year two, granted on stacked teams requiring the QB to not make mistakes. I'd say Purdy is more Ben than Montana in that context. People saying Montana are only doing so based on the 49ers connection, nothing else.
 
MrMarcello said:
Big Ben got to an AFC title game as a rookie and a Super Bowl in year two, granted on stacked teams requiring the QB to not make mistakes. I'd say Purdy is more Ben than Montana in that context. People saying Montana are only doing so based on the 49ers connection, nothing else.
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Or from having watched them both and seen similarities.
 
swooshboy said:
Still can't believe you ignored the chance to get 2 FGs. That showed some playoff naivety which they will learn from, although it is a painful lesson.
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SportsCenter said the Lions kicker had made only one FG beyond 44 yards outdoors on grass in the past two years. I figure this is why Campbell went for it twice in SF territory. The first fourth down should have been a catch and most likely changes the outcome assuming they don't feck it up thereafter. The second fourth down I think you gotta give the kicker a chance to prove the analytics wrong and when needing some points and a bit of momentum change.
 
calodo2003 said:
It's the inherent haughtiness of local SF fans & their disdain for the common football fan. The entitlement was off the charts. I was in the absolute midst it as I was a wine salesman in downtown SF & the dot.com boom was in full swing. I got invited to countless tailgating parties outside Candlestick where they had ropes condoning off the area & security guards milling about. I barely made the cut to enter as I was curating a dozen season ticket holders' personal wine cellars & they knew I was a football fan. This was not out of the norm for tailgating there. It was so sterile & uncomfortable a situation. But, again, that was the local wealthy season holder circa 1998 & 1999. Perhaps the season ticket fan base shifted some to the more common folk when they migrated south. Dunno.

As far as non-local resident SF fans, haven't met too many that were over the top except for this one cat. He was a sous chef at a restaurant I was managing & he took a swing at me on expo right in front of the floor. He was (& probably still is) an insufferable cnut when it came to the Niners; I hope that the Niners lose for him to remain miserable too.
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I get what you’re saying. I think the issue is the douchebaggery of uppity Americans and the economics of the Bay Area meaning you get a lot of them there. And you get a lot of people treating it all as a social event. My first giants game the woman in front of us brought a book!

we were at warriors kings in the playoffs last year. The guys sitting next to me were silicon valley bros who admitted they didn’t even like basketball and got the tickets for free. They sat the whole game. The guy on the other side of us was a normal guy who was going crazy with us the whole time.

sucks about your tailgating experiences, I know that wasn’t my dad’s feelings when he was going in the 80s, but that was a different time and he would have ducked the haughty guys anyway (which it sounds like you couldn’t do to get into the parts you were invited/wanted(?) to get into). Reckon you would have had a different experience at different parts of the tailgate but who knows
 
Charlie Foley said:
I get what you’re saying. I think the issue is the douchebaggery of uppity Americans and the economics of the Bay Area meaning you get a lot of them there. And you get a lot of people treating it all as a social event. My first giants game the woman in front of us brought a book!

we were at warriors kings in the playoffs last year. The guys sitting next to me were silicon valley bros who admitted they didn’t even like basketball and got the tickets for free. They sat the whole game. The guy on the other side of us was a normal guy who was going crazy with us the whole time.

sucks about your tailgating experiences, I know that wasn’t my dad’s feelings when he was going in the 80s, but that was a different time and he would have ducked the haughty guys anyway (which it sounds like you couldn’t do to get into the parts you were invited/wanted(?) to get into). Reckon you would have had a different experience at different parts of the tailgate but who knows
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Yeah, the newly minted wealth class was quite pervasive, just like the Silicon Valley bros at your basketball game. It was such a disparity to Oakland's fans & tailgating.

Amazing what one bridge can do.
 
Even without Mac on murph and Mac the KNBR sports coverage is second to none. Papa and Ryan are great and Brian Murphy is the man. Their audio of the radio coverage over don’t spot believing has me pumped :lol:
 
charlton66 said:
I don't understand all the negativity towards Mahomes. He seems like a decent enough guy and on the field he can be something really special. It's like watching Steph Curry play basketball. On any given day you don't know exactly what you're going to get, but there's always a chance it could be amazing. I'm not a Chiefs fan but just watching Mahomes is worth the price of admission.
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Charlie Foley said:
He’s Steph if Steph was a whiny bitch. And got all the calls
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You're stealing my stuff. I said that last week.:cool:
 
Charlie Foley said:
Even without Mac on murph and Mac the KNBR sports coverage is second to none. Papa and Ryan are great and Brian Murphy is the man. Their audio of the radio coverage over don’t spot believing has me pumped :lol:
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What I don’t get is how Papa was even considered to become the Niners PBP man after such a solid career doing the same with Oakland. It happened after my time in SF; was it an acrimonious departure from the Raiders or did his contract run out & he just defected over the bay?
 
HTG said:
And now that you’ve been reminded of your place, just stay there.
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It's ok. This is hockeytown anyway. We ll probably win another Stanley Cup long before the Lions make it to the SB. Hell the Pistons may come good again (doubtful), or the Tigers may win another World Series before that too. And Michigan and Michigan State will provide for the occasional titles too.

The Lions should be stronger next season but clearly the other division teams will be too and they now know our running game better.
 
Stat I heard on radio. Mahomes in playoffs.

17 games, 4800 passing yards, 450 something rushing yards, 39 touchdowns to 7 interceptions. 14-3 record.

Insane.
 
I just can't stand KC bc on two visits to that city I met so many self important cnuts acting like they're Parisians or some shit I have no desire to go back. Not a fair assessment of a place perhaps, but it stood out to me :lol:

Note I've lived in Chicago, DC and near Seattle and spend some time in NYC so my tolerance for self important cnuts is otherwise pretty high.
 
Redplane said:
I just can't stand KC bc on two visits to that city I met so many self important cnuts acting like they're Parisians or some shit I have no desire to go back. Not a fair assessment of a place perhaps, but it stood out to me :lol:

Note I've lived in Chicago, DC and near Seattle and spend some time in NYC so my tolerance for self important cnuts is otherwise pretty high.
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Since when parisians are important or should feel important?:nono:
 
Redplane said:
It's ok. This is hockeytown anyway. We ll probably win another Stanley Cup long before the Lions make it to the SB. Hell the Pistons may come good again (doubtful), or the Tigers may win another World Series before that too. And Michigan and Michigan State will provide for the occasional titles too.

The Lions should be stronger next season but clearly the other division teams will be too and they now know our running game better.
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It got lost in all the Conference championship games madness last weekend but they beat the West-leading Thunder without Cade ffs :lol:
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
I watched most of that game. What did I miss?
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Mahomes major meltdown because Chiefs weren’t allowed to break the rules. His own receiver was lined up offside on a wild TD play at the last second, and got called back. Really brought the “do you know who I am” and “wait till my father hears about this” energy. Then in snobby father like fashion, Andy Reid proceeded to double down on it in the post game press conference.
 
Florida Man said:
Mahomes major meltdown because Chiefs weren’t allowed to break the rules. His own receiver was lined up offside on a wild TD play at the last second, and got called back. Really brought the “do you know who I am” and “wait till my father hears about this” energy. Then in snobby father like fashion, Andy Reid proceeded to double down on it in the post game press conference.
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The reason why they were both so upset was not because Toney was called for offside. They were upset because of when the officials called it. Toney had been lining up offside repeatedly the entire game and the officials had said nothing, done nothing. No penalties, no warnings. Then all of a sudden with the game on the line they decide that something they had let go the entire game was a flag.

I'd have been upset too. All you ask from officials is to be consistent. Some officials call a game tight, others not so much but be consistent throughout. That's all most players and coaches ask for.
 
charlton66 said:
The reason why they were both so upset was not because Toney was called for offside. They were upset because of when the officials called it. Toney had been lining up offside repeatedly the entire game and the officials had said nothing, done nothing. No penalties, no warnings. Then all of a sudden with the game on the line they decide that something they had let go the entire game was a flag.

I'd have been upset too. All you ask from officials is to be consistent. Some officials call a game tight, others not so much but be consistent throughout. That's all most players and coaches ask for.
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There’s being upset and then there’s whatever pathetic reaction they did. Only a team who’s so used to getting favorable calls would find that so infuriating. Doubtful Kelce even throws the ball mid run without having seen the flag thinking it’s a free play.
 
Florida Man said:
There’s being upset and then there’s whatever pathetic reaction they did. Only a team who’s so used to getting favorable calls would find that so infuriating. Doubtful Kelce even throws the ball mid run without having seen the flag thinking it’s a free play.
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It cost them the game. A game against one of their biggest rivals. I don't know what you expect. Coaches and players complain all the time. If you like the player or coach the reaction from fans is usually to agree with them and blame the officials. If you dislike the player or coach (as you obviously do with Mahomes) then the reaction is to blame them for reacting unfavorably.

The call from the officials was technically correct there's no doubt, but if you've been letting something go the entire game, something that is rarely called, then there's going to be a reaction from both players and coaches. If they had warned Reid or called the penalty on Toney the first time he transgressed this would have never been a problem.
 
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charlton66 said:
. No penalties, no warnings. Then all of a sudden with the game on the line they decide that something they had let go the entire game was a flag.

I'd have been upset too. All you ask from officials is to be consistent. Some officials call a game tight, others not so much but be consistent throughout. That's all most players and coaches ask for.
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This describes last year’s Super Bowl perfectly!
 
JPRouve said:
How are the Chiefs villains?
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1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.

swooshboy said:
Fair point!

I just find it so strange that many people seem to be almost offended by Purdy. People are jumping on the Detroit fairy tale story, but not liking the fairy tale of Mr Irrelevant leading his team to the Super Bowl in his first full season as starter and after having off-season surgery for a potentially career-ending injury...whilst on the way breaking team records for passing yards, and being the highest ranked QB in the NFL across most of the major statistics.

No matter what he does, people are looking for an angle to discredit him:

He's just a system QB – ignoring the fact that other QBs have not performed anywhere close to as well in the same offense.
He just has good players around him – true, but no idea why this argument isn't equally applied to other QBs.
His receivers just pick up YAC yards that pad his stats – true, they are YAC machines - but they are dependent on him being able to hit them in stride so that they can pick up those additional yards. Jimmy G was unable to throw his receivers open, for example. Also, he is middle of the pack when it comes to YAC yards, yet at the very top when it comes to deep ball accuracy, rating, TDs etc. The fact that we have a deep-ball threat thanks to Purdy has really opened up our offense – and absolutely helps McCaffery and the run game.

There was also the opinion that he couldn't drag his team from behind and win a game. There were many games this year that weren't even close - thanks in part to Purdy's exceptional play. But as soon as he has a couple of not so good games – yet still manages to elevate his game when it matters and lead his team to a victory...people just criticise his performance instead. Reminds me of the quote: "If my critics saw me walking over water, they would say it was because I couldn't swim."
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I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
 
Charlie Foley said:
This describes last year’s Super Bowl perfectly!
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....and were the players and coaches upset?

Honest question because I don't pay attention to post game stuff once the game is over.
 
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charlton66 said:
....and were the players and coaches upset?

Honest question because I don't pay attention to post game stuff once the game is over.
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I don’t remember them reacting how Mahomes did against buffalo. And the Philly sideline is pretty petulant. It was a while ago now. I thought at the time the outrage was more online
 
Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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This is a well articulated post. People forget that in elite level sport, the differentiator is often mental attributes that are much harder to evaluate. Which on a United forum is surprising people don’t understand given that’s why we were so successful for the most part under Fergie.

Now whether Purdy falls into this bucket yet is far too early to conclude. Which is why I’m surprised that there is such polar views on him. Especially from @RobinLFC who otherwise is the banner boy for giving young QBs time :lol:
 
As for this Mahomes discussion, success ends up making you entitled I guess. Not sure I “dislike” Mahomes as I can’t help but admire his talent. I just didn’t want KC in the Bowl because it’s nice to see different teams in it sometimes.
 
Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Completely agree with this - great post!
 
Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Excellent post, especially the second part. I believe I read somewhere that Purdy’s speed over the first 10yds and possibly 20yds compared more than favourably to all other QBs, which is speed where he needs it!
 
Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Great post
 
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