NFL 2023

$35m for Geno, $37.5m for Carr, and people still having a laugh about Jones asking for $45m - I don't get it. He is still younger than Burrow, Lamar, Allen as well.
 
RobinLFC said:
$35m for Geno, $37.5m for Carr, and people still having a laugh about Jones asking for $45m - I don't get it. He is still younger than Burrow, Lamar, Allen as well.
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He's not as good at actually throwing the football as any of the names listed though.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
He's not as good at actually throwing the football as any of the names listed though.
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Doesn't need to be. I just hate this theme that we "know what Jones is by now", as if he doesn't have the opportunity to grow further as a player.
 
RobinLFC said:
Doesn't need to be. I just hate this theme that we "know what Jones is by now", as if he doesn't have the opportunity to grow further as a player.
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At this point in time, he is certainly not a $48 million player. Could he improve? Absolutely. But asking for that amount is taking the piss right now.
 
I would take Jones over Geno or Carr. By a mile too.
 
RobinLFC said:
$35m for Geno, $37.5m for Carr, and people still having a laugh about Jones asking for $45m - I don't get it. He is still younger than Burrow, Lamar, Allen as well.
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The Giants are in an awkward position. He’s going to be middle of the pack for the most part, do you want to commit long term to that. Certainly not at $45m AAV.

You’d have to have immense confidence that there’s untapped potential, you’ve certainly got the coach to realise it.
 
calodo2003 said:
At this point in time, he is certainly not a $48 million player. Could he improve? Absolutely. But asking for that amount is taking the piss right now.
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Disagree. Cap will increase, and any QB-deal which was concluded 2-3 years ago looks like a bargain now. Gotta take the future into account when you're discussing a 5-year deal (potentially his only long-term deal as well).

And I also doubt it's what he actually wants, otherwise there wouldn't be ongoing discussions right now (a deal is apparently close). Much more likely that it ends up being a $35-40m per year deal, which is in line with was others like Carr and Geno are getting right now.
 


Apparently Mixon shot a child. Apparently Mixon also did not shoot a child.
 


Could be a solid back up to Pacheco.
 
Such a bizarre scenario where he acted as his own agent. How can he feel good towards the Ravens after they told him he didn't deserve what he felt he did? Just a stupid move in my opinion, but if the Ravens don't make him exclusive, they allow other teams to create his salary, not the Ravens. Takes pressure off of them. Two first rounders aren't a bad return at the end of the day.
 
ARod to Jets
Lamar to Falcons

Both have a chance it seems.
 
JJ12 said:
ARod to Jets
Lamar to Falcons

Both have a chance it seems.
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Lasted 1 hour.

Although the Ravens have placed the non-exclusive tag on Lamar. Maybe he’s going, maybe the Ravens are letting somebody else do the work for them.
 
JJ12 said:
Lasted 1 hour.

Although the Ravens have placed the non-exclusive tag on Lamar. Maybe he’s going, maybe the Ravens are letting somebody else do the work for them.
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It was already reported that they were going to tag him at 4PM. It is allegeded that the Ravens expect to be outbidded by Atlanta or Chicago which would yield draft picks.
 
Any team that gets Lamar for two first rounders have taken the Ravens to the cleaners. Absolutely ridiculous bargain.
 
Makes sense, although I would've let Barkley walk if I was the Giants. No RB is worth $10m.
 
JPRouve said:
It was already reported that they were going to tag him at 4PM. It is allegeded that the Ravens expect to be outbidded by Atlanta or Chicago which would yield draft picks.
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Atlanta is out of the running within an hour of reporting they would be in for him.

Falcons, Panthers and Dolphins are reportedly all out on Lamar

Raiders ‘unlikely’ to pursue him.
 
JJ12 said:
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Owners are sending a message here that they just don't want to follow the example set by the fecking Browns, and that players shouldn't expect fully guaranteed contracts.

Still think it's bonkers though. I'd much rather pay Lamar $200m no matter what than guaranteeing Daniel Jones something like $80-100m over the next two years. Kyler fecking Murray has $189m guaranteed and hasn't proven anything compared to Lamar.
 
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RobinLFC said:
Owners are sending a message here that they just don't want to follow the example set by the fecking Browns, and that players shouldn't expect fully guaranteed contracts.

Still think it's bonkers though. I'd much rather pay Lamar $200m no matter what than guaranteeing Daniel Jones something like $80-100m over the next two years. Kyler fecking Murray has $189m guaranteed and hasn't proven anything compared to Lamar.
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Why have so many teams immediately and very publicly said that they will not even consider Lamar? I'm not a conspiracy guy but something smells fishy. Clearly, there's a feeling that a precedent should not be set re guaranteed money. Which is unfair, because the precedent has already been set with Watson. Cat's out the bag now.....
 
Exactly my thoughts yeah. It's nothing short of laughable that sorry ass teams like the Panthers and Falcons rule themselves out of the race for an MVP QB caliber type of players after the QBs they had to start and the records they've had the last few years.

It's fine if you don't wanna guarantee $250m to him, or don't wanna give up 2 firsts if you think you can get him next year without giving up those picks. But not even contacting him to figure out his demands, especially given the state those teams currently in - yeah, absolutely ridiculous imo.
 
RobinLFC said:
Exactly my thoughts yeah. It's nothing short of laughable that sorry ass teams like the Panthers and Falcons rule themselves out of the race for an MVP QB caliber type of players after the QBs they had to start and the records they've had the last few years.

It's fine if you don't wanna guarantee $250m to him, or don't wanna give up 2 firsts if you think you can get him next year without giving up those picks. But not even contacting him to figure out his demands, especially given the state those teams currently in - yeah, absolutely ridiculous imo.
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NFLPA reportedly advising Lamar so the battle lines have been drawn. Very interesting to see what will happen. And what the guys coming up behind Lamar (Herbert, Burrow etc.) will do as a result of whatever outcome Lamar gets.
 
RobinLFC said:
Exactly my thoughts yeah. It's nothing short of laughable that sorry ass teams like the Panthers and Falcons rule themselves out of the race for an MVP QB caliber type of players after the QBs they had to start and the records they've had the last few years.

It's fine if you don't wanna guarantee $250m to him, or don't wanna give up 2 firsts if you think you can get him next year without giving up those picks. But not even contacting him to figure out his demands, especially given the state those teams currently in - yeah, absolutely ridiculous imo.
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Yeah it’s the speed that they’ve ruled themselves out. It makes sense to just speak to the guy. Stinks of collusion.
 
JJ12 said:
Yeah it’s the speed that they’ve ruled themselves out. It makes sense to just speak to the guy. Stinks of collusion.
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Covert collusion has always been rampant in the NFL. I wouldn't doubt that the remaining 31 owners have come to a mutual agreement that no superstar contracts, especially QBs, can ever be fully guaranteed again.
 
The precedent is Cousins with the Vikings not Watson. The issue with Watson was that they offered a large fully guaranteed contract to a player that had terrible PR.

Now there are several issues here the Vikings have learned the hard way, even though Cousins has been good, his contract allowed next to no flexibility which has largely prevented the Vikings from manoeuvering free agency efficiently which is an issue if you don't have one of the exceptional QBs, the likes of Brady, Mahomes or prime Rodgers, anyone else need heavy support which isn't possible if you have a large and fully guaranteed contract.
The other issues with Lamar Jackson is that he is not durable, it's extremely risky to give him a +45m fully guaranteed contract when he is almost guaranteed to miss plenty of games during the course of that contract. And the picks that you have to give up are a bad deal when you consider that his contract forces you to rely almost entirely on the draft.

Also and that's more from an analytics standpoint outside of the freak QBs, superbowl teams tend to win with a QB on a rookie contract.

In the end someone may do it but it's not an obvious decision and on a paper it's not a wise decision, in theory the better decision is to use your picks to draft your own QB and his rookie contract.
 
JPRouve said:
The precedent is Cousins with the Vikings not Watson. The issue with Watson was that they offered a large fully guaranteed contract to a player that had terrible PR.
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Disagree. It's not guaranteed money that's the problem, because e.g. Daniel Jones has gotten $82m guaranteed over the next 2 years just yesterday, which is very similar to what Cousins first got (3-year, $84m fully guaranteed). It's that Kyler (and later on Watson to a ridiculous extent, Russell Wilson also has $165m guarantees from a deal he signed at 30+ years old) set the guaranteed money so high that Lamar wants something in the same ballpark and owners now seem to have all agreed that those amounts are too high to be giving out right now and in the future, that's the thing they want to stop here, not partially guaranteeing contracts (which still happens a lot).

Now there are several issues here the Vikings have learned the hard way, even though Cousins has been good, his contract allowed next to no flexibility which has largely prevented the Vikings from manoeuvering free agency efficiently which is an issue if you don't have one of the exceptional QBs, the likes of Brady, Mahomes or prime Rodgers, anyone else need heavy support which isn't possible if you have a large and fully guaranteed contract.
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Agreed, although as counter-arguments, I do think that (i) Lamar is an exceptional QB and (ii) cap will go up and QB salaries as well, so in 3 years even $40m guaranteed per year might not seem excessive in terms of cap space for roster building.

The other issues with Lamar Jackson is that he is not durable, it's extremely risky to give him a +45m fully guaranteed contract when he is almost guaranteed to miss plenty of games during the course of that contract. And the picks that you have to give up are a bad deal when you consider that his contract forces you to rely almost entirely on the draft.
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Disagree again, can't predict injury - and if you take it as a given, it has also been a given that he's a near guarantee to get your team into the playoffs, and at the Ravens he has had to work with a franchise which invested the LEAST amount of money into its offense during his stay there. It matters less if you have found your solution at QB. The Panthers, Falcons, Raiders, ... will need to 100% hit on their rookie QB in order for that player to get to Lamar Jackson level - but if you get Jackson, you get a SB window of 5 years and can invest other premier picks for other roster spots during Lamar's contract.

In the end someone may do it but it's not an obvious decision and on a paper it's not a wise decision, in theory the better decision is to use your picks to draft your own QB and his rookie contract.
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Yes, bolded part is true but like I said, hit rate is low for an elite QB. Examples are plentiful that even a serviceable QB won't get you anywhere near a SB - while that chance gets immediately enhanced with Lamar on board (and yes, I know he hasn't gotten far in the playoffs so far).
 
RobinLFC said:
Disagree. It's not guaranteed money that's the problem, because e.g. Daniel Jones has gotten $82m guaranteed over the next 2 years just yesterday, which is very similar to what Cousins first got (3-year, $84m fully guaranteed). It's that Kyler (and later on Watson to a ridiculous extent, Russell Wilson also has $165m guarantees from a deal he signed at 30+ years old) set the guaranteed money so high that Lamar wants something in the same ballpark and owners now seem to have all agreed that those amounts are too high to be giving out right now and in the future, that's the thing they want to stop here, not partially guaranteeing contracts (which still happens a lot).


Agreed, although as counter-arguments, I do think that (i) Lamar is an exceptional QB and (ii) cap will go up and QB salaries as well, so in 3 years even $40m guaranteed per year might not seem excessive in terms of cap space for roster building.


Disagree again, can't predict injury - and if you take it as a given, it has also been a given that he's a near guarantee to get your team into the playoffs, and at the Ravens he has had to work with a franchise which invested the LEAST amount of money into its offense during his stay there. It matters less if you have found your solution at QB. The Panthers, Falcons, Raiders, ... will need to 100% hit on their rookie QB in order for that player to get to Lamar Jackson level - but if you get Jackson, you get a SB window of 5 years and can invest other premier picks for other roster spots during Lamar's contract.


Yes, bolded part is true but like I said, hit rate is low for an elite QB. Examples are plentiful that even a serviceable QB won't get you anywhere near a SB - while that chance gets immediately enhanced with Lamar on board (and yes, I know he hasn't gotten far in the playoffs so far).
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I said "fully" guaranteed and in the case of Watson I said that the issue was that it was for a player with terrible PR. So I'm not sure about what you are disagreeing with. And I'm also not sure how you can even start to argue that a player with a bad injury record isn't going to be looked at differently to a player without a bad injury record especially when the former wants a fully guaranteed contract.

And no Jones and Cousins contract aren't very similar, out of 160m only 82m are guaranteed in the case of Jones while every dollars were guaranteed in Cousins contracts.
 
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