NFL 2017/18

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Organic Potatoes said:
Somewhat ironic, in this context at least, is that move started with Elway. Refused to play for the Colts, causing further drama in the notorious draft of '83.
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Add to it that Dallas actually offered the better bounty for the top pick but Colts ownership was hellbent on not allowing Elway to get the preferred destination (he wanted Dallas when they entered the frame, according to that 30 for 30 documentary).

How would that have altered history for Dallas and Denver? Does Dallas still struggle the remainder of the 80s? Does Landry get fired in 1989? Does Bum Bright sell the club? What happens to Denver with Danny White in the frame?
 
swooshboy said:
Really good post and I agree with a lot of your comments.

I completely agree with what you said regarding Steve Young. This might sound contradictory, but whilst Montana is both my favourite QB ever and whom I consider to be the best, I think Young would actually rank as a more dangerous QB. I think it's safe to say you will never get as good a depth chart as the one the Niners had back then!
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I rate Young over Montana based on talent but obviously not on accomplishments. Many forget that Montana was benched in that playoff loss to Minnesota in 1988 (as the #1 seed I might add); they really should have coasted through a weak NFC playoff field during that strike season. Montana rebounded in the 1988 season though didn't have a great season but came through in the playoffs and SB game against the Bengals. His 1989 season was spectacular. Best "team" I've seen in my lifetime, just ahead of the 1992/93 Cowboys, 94 49ers, 07 Patriots.

But Young would have done the same in 1988 and 1989 with that team, and probably have performed even better statistically.

A side not... if you put Elway, Kelly, or Marino with Walsh from 83-89 they're winning titles as well. Put Montana in Buffalo, Denver, or Miami and he ain't winning titles. Much of a QB's success goes with coaching and supporting cast. Montana went 4-0 in the title game, so did Bradshaw, and Brady has now made it seven (!) times and won five, and could easily be 7-0 with a bounce here or there (or 0-7 if you will). Brady has surpassed them all in my view, having done more with less and in a salary cap era (granted, in an era even more preferential to the pass).
 
My top five... I'm intentionally leaving off players whose best years/majority of career came prior to the merger and the modern era. Many of these players I was able to witness throughout the years while some I'm going strictly off hearsay and whatnot.

QB: Brady, Montana, P Manning, Elway, Marino
RB: Payton, Smith, Simpson, Sanders, Dickerson
WR: Rice, Moss, Fitzgerald, Carter, Owens (this is a really tough category after the first two)
TE: Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, Newsome, Sharpe
C: Dawson, Stephenson, Webster, Cross, Mawae
G: Allen, Matthews, Hannah, Upshaw, McDaniel
T: Ogden, Munoz, Jones, Roaf, Thomas
DE: White, Smith, Selmon, Doleman, Eller
DT: Greene, Kennedy, White, Randle, Page
ILB: Lewis, Seau, Singletary, Lambert, Urlacher
OLB: Taylor, Brooks, Thomas, Hendricks, Ham
CB: Sanders, R Woodson, C Woodson, Haynes, Green
S: Lott, Reed, Polamalu, Atwater, Harris
K: Vinatieri, Andersen, Hanson, Stenerud, G Anderson
P: Guy, Roby, Lechler, Hekker, Lee
KR/PR: Hester, Sayers, Sanders, Hall, Mitchell
Coach*: Belichick, Parcells, Shula, Noll, Walsh

Guys like Matthews, Allen, and Seau excelled at multiple positions. Coach - Yes, I left out Lombardi who probably is the best coach ever regardless of era, just like Brown, Butkus, Lilly, Unitas, etc. would be high up on this list if included.
 
MrMarcello said:
My top five... I'm intentionally leaving off players whose best years/majority of career came prior to the merger and the modern era. Many of these players I was able to witness throughout the years while some I'm going strictly off hearsay and whatnot.

QB: Brady, Montana, P Manning, Elway, Marino
RB: Payton, Smith, Simpson, Sanders, Dickerson
WR: Rice, Moss, Fitzgerald, Carter, Owens (this is a really tough category after the first two)
TE: Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, Newsome, Sharpe
C: Dawson, Stephenson, Webster, Cross, Mawae
G: Allen, Matthews, Hannah, Upshaw, McDaniel
T: Ogden, Munoz, Jones, Roaf, Thomas
DE: White, Smith, Selmon, Doleman, Eller
DT: Greene, Kennedy, White, Randle, Page
ILB: Lewis, Seau, Singletary, Lambert, Urlacher
OLB: Taylor, Brooks, Thomas, Hendricks, Ham
CB: Sanders, R Woodson, C Woodson, Haynes, Green
S: Lott, Reed, Polamalu, Atwater, Harris
K: Vinatieri, Andersen, Hanson, Stenerud, G Anderson
P: Guy, Roby, Lechler, Hekker, Lee
KR/PR: Hester, Sayers, Sanders, Hall, Mitchell
Coach*: Belichick, Parcells, Shula, Noll, Walsh

Guys like Matthews, Allen, and Seau excelled at multiple positions. Coach - Yes, I left out Lombardi who probably is the best coach ever regardless of era, just like Brown, Butkus, Lilly, Unitas, etc. would be high up on this list if included.
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Find it impressive when people manage to rate offensive linemen. How do you go about this? How do you know what the scheme was, what the shifts were, whether the qb made a wrong adjustment?
 
altodevil86 said:
Find it impressive when people manage to rate offensive linemen. How do you go about this? How do you know what the scheme was, what the shifts were, whether the qb made a wrong adjustment?
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Not going that far into it but having watched all of them play at some point (except Hannah and Upshaw), I have seen just how dominant they were in the blocking game and how recognized they were by coaches, peers, and pundits. Allen was possibly the greatest mauler and strongest player to ever step foot onto the field. I also viewed picks by famed personnel guys picks for best at each position, guys like Brandt who published his best ever at each position this past summer. Ranker has an interesting site that takes votes from public to rank players at respective positions (granted, many fans are biased in numerous ways and I find that few look deeper into the actual facets of the sport).

I will add that had Erik Williams not got drunk and crashed his Benz into an overpass back in 1994, he'd likely have become the greatest tackle in league history. He was that immense in years two and three then made a bad choice halfway through year four. He terrorized opposing DEs including the likes of Smith and White. He returned to All-Pro level by 1997 but was never as dominating as 1993 and early 1994. Additionally, Terrell Davis was on the projectory of a future top five RB selection, as were WR Sterling Sharpe and ILB Patrick Willis at their respective positions.

Note: I just realized I included Sayers which goes against my rule of selection (after merger/modern era). Revised KR/PR: Hester, Sanders, Hall, Mitchell, Gray
 
I think cats like Dan Fouts, Steve Largent, etc. would pile up impressive statistics in today's era. These guys retired at the top of the statistical mountain but have since been rendered irrelevant. Fouts would likely put up Brees-like statistics each season while Largent would routinely top 100 receptions annually.
 
Ffs pick 6 on Brady

Cam Newton went off injured, hopefully not serious.
 
Gurley is winning a lot of people a fantasy championship this year.
 
Wow they changed the TD in NE. Very difficult to tell but I thought they’d have kept the decision on the field.
 
Eagles vs Seahawks an absolutely clear 1st down call wasn't overturned because they somehow felt that it wasn't conclusive , how anyone can actually overturn that bills td is absolutely beyond me
 
Falcons needed that score, stupid fecks. Saints have dominated this game.
 
Good win for the Pats, especially without Burkhead, White & Hogan. Hopefully all 3 will be healthy for the playoffs, they'll be needed.
 
Cam Newton as good as putting a nail in the Cowboys' season. As barely alive as it was.
 
Yay! Carolina made the playoffs. Typical for the offence today to score the game winning TD with a fumble recovery. Depth in the receiver core is a major worry though. The Benjamin trade is starting to sting.
 
Niners on top early in this one. Jags having to throw it & struggling without having established the run.

Wow a blocked PAT returned for 2 by Jags. The high 5 :lol:
 
And playing a year under Chip Kelly may work wonders for Rosen's development, draft grade, and probable Heisman candidacy. Win-win-win for Rosen and surely he'll buy an insurance policy in case of injury.
 
That's a stupid rule that's denied Jags the turnover.
 
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