NFL 2016/17

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Steelers will be really annoyed to only be getting FGs from all of this.
But saying that, they have the lead (but again, its only one possession lead right now)
 
Damn, this is so good.

So it will be:
Big Ben vs Brady
Ryan Vs Rodgers

Big games.
 
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The Steelers are playing really well. A proper balanced offense with an aggressive D. They can win it all imo.
 
Something that is interesting though is if you look at it, most of the bye teams had a slow and disjointed performance comparatively to what we have seen during the year. The Falcons the exception.

We struggled through the game. The Chiefs struggled to get going on offence and were easy to play on defence until the final third. And Dallas looked awful on defence but perhaps that's on A Rod.
 
Atlanta- GB will be really fun to watch.

Steelers are going to be a really tough game.
 
So obviously going to bed at HT in the GB/Dallas game was a great decision.

I'll need to watch the highlights later!
 
ha_rooney said:
Atlanta- GB will be really fun to watch.

Steelers are going to be a really tough game.
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Yeah. I'm just hoping though that our rusty performance against the Texans will really focus us for it. We should have chances; Big Ben isn't the same player away from Pittsburgh. But we need to figure out how to stop Bell, that much is certain.
 
4 absolutely brilliant teams have made the championship game and should be an incredible Sunday. Patriots and Packers have won 8 in a row, Falcons have won 5 in a row and Steelers have won 9 in a row. Basically none of these teams has lost in the last 2 months which is pretty incredible in a league as crazy as this
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
4 absolutely brilliant teams have made the championship game and should be an incredible Sunday. Patriots and Packers have won 8 in a row, Falcons have won 5 in a row and Steelers have won 9 in a row. Basically none of these teams has lost in the last 2 months which is pretty incredible in a league as crazy as this
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Thats astonishing. It does seem like all four teams (maybe not Patriots) have been playing playoff style football for a while now. Packers and Steelers I would say so, given they needed the wins to get through and felt like a win or go home situation.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
4 absolutely brilliant teams have made the championship game and should be an incredible Sunday. Patriots and Packers have won 8 in a row, Falcons have won 5 in a row and Steelers have won 9 in a row. Basically none of these teams has lost in the last 2 months which is pretty incredible in a league as crazy as this
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Yep it's amazing.

The Falcons last lost on 04/12.
The Packers last lost on 21/11.
The Patriots last lost on 14/11.
The Steelers last lost on 13/11.

Sylar said:
Thats astonishing. It does seem like all four teams (maybe not Patriots) have been playing playoff style football for a while now. Packers and Steelers I would say so, given they needed the wins to get through and felt like a win or go home situation.
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That's so true. All of them have come up clutch except the Pats who were always ahead so didn't have to noticeably become more clutch, just were from the get go. Packers needed to run the board. Steelers were in a tight contest with the Ravens and needed to win their games. And Falcons were not so far ahead of the Bucs and going into Dec being hunted by the teams behind.
 
Also I'm going to put it out there and say watching Bell in the running game is like watching Rodgers in the passing game.

Put it another way; it's like Brady and Rodgers. Brady is like Ronaldo (7) - (clearly has less talent but works hard to be who he has become), Rodgers is like Messi (obviously works hard too, but the natural talent is amazing). Bell is Messi, Zeke (at least this year) was like Ronaldo.

Even as a Pats fan, watching Brady is obviously amazing x100 but watching Rodgers leaves you with your mouth wide open. Kind of the same for Zeke and Bell.
 
Let's hope its the Steelers v Falcons. The Steelers D vs the Falcons pass happy offense would make for an interesting match up. In either case, we simply can't have a Super Bowl with out Bell in it.
 
I wanna see Brady vs Rodgers, but I also want The Triple Bees in the SB :D

I'm going for Brady vs Rodgers. If it doesn't happen this year, it probably never will, whereas Brown/Bell have plenty of chances left to get there.
 
RobinLFC said:
I wanna see Brady vs Rodgers, but I also want The Triple Bees in the SB :D

I'm going for Brady vs Rodgers. If it doesn't happen this year, it probably never will, whereas Brown/Bell have plenty of chances left to get there.
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Out of them all though it's Bell who I think deserves it if Patriots are not to go through. As I said above, for me he is as talented and unique at RB as Rodgers is at QB.
 
rpitroda said:
Out of them all though it's Bell who I think deserves it if Patriots are not to go through. As I said above, for me he is as talented and unique at RB as Rodgers is at QB.
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Yeah, he's really been something else this last couple of games, or should I say the second half of the season. I think he doesn't have less than 130 scrimmage yards in each of his last eight games, it really is insane. He also created an almost new running style with his hesitation, it's a thing of art.

Tomlin's presser about the AB locker room video was funny as well btw:

The last element of the discussion is Antonio himself. I'll be bluntly honest here. It was foolish of him to do that. It was selfish for him to do that. And it was inconsiderate for him to do that. Not only is it a violation of our policy, it's a violation of league policy. Both of which he knows. So there's consequences to be dealt with from his perspective, we will punish him, we won't punish us.
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The bolded part :lol:
 
Spent half the day arguing with people on another forum about who the goat QB is. Long story short - its Brady.
 
Raoul said:
Spent half the day arguing with people on another forum about who the goat QB is. Long story short - its Brady.
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Greatest, yes probably. But there's been a few who are better.
 
altodevil86 said:
Greatest, yes probably. But there's been a few who are better.
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Better and greatest. Two subjective words which are often amalgamated when discussing who is the "best".

Are there more talented QB's to have played the game then Brady? For sure, i don't think anyone argues against that. But would Tom Brady swap any of his rings to be more talented? You bet your ass he wouldn't. Brady plays the game to win, and winning is the ultimate objective.

So, to your comment - yes there are probably QB's who are "better", but if your definition is to go by, Brady only ever wanted to be the greatest.
 
altodevil86 said:
Greatest, yes probably. But there's been a few who are better.
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It's actually hard to argue that anyone has been better than Brady. The only ones that can even be in the conversation are those who have better stats than him - like Manning, Brees, and Farvre.
 
I think Rodgers can overtake him by the time both are done. Brady will have longevity, Rodgers has an insane god-like peak.
 
Raoul said:
It's actually hard to argue that anyone has been better than Brady. The only ones that can even be in the conversation are those who have better stats than him - like Manning, Brees, and Farvre.
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You don't think Joe Montana with 4 SB rings and 3 SB MVP's (same as Brady) deserves to be in the 'conversation'????

Montana like Brady has 2 league MVP awards and he was an All Pro 3 times compared to Brady's 2. Montana doesn't have the gaudy passing numbers because he only threw the ball 5,300 times compared to Brady and his 8,200 attempts. Let alone, Brees and his mental stats.

Favre???? Really??? He was tough as hell and did some incredible things, but he isn't even close to being in this 'conversation'.
 
Neutral said:
You don't think Joe Montana with 4 SB rings and 3 SB MVP's (same as Brady) deserves to be in the 'conversation'????

Montana like Brady has 2 league MVP awards and he was an All Pro 3 times compared to Brady's 2. Montana doesn't have the gaudy passing numbers because he only threw the ball 5,300 times compared to Brady and his 8,200 attempts. Let alone, Brees and his mental stats.

Favre???? Really??? He was tough as hell and did some incredible things, but he isn't even close to being in this 'conversation'.
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When you compare all the numbers, Brady is definitely ahead of Montana. Brady has been in 6 Super Bowls, winning 4 and coming within 7 points of winning two more. If he wins this one, you would be hard pressed to say a QB with 5 rings and Brady's collective career stats isn't the greatest QB of all time.

Montana's achievements are not far behind, but he was more of a playoff specialist than a great regular season QB. For example, he never once threw for 5k yards in a season. Actually he never even threw for 4k in a season. His highest TD count in a year was 31. He did shine in the playoffs though, which is where history remembers him.

Brady, on the other hand, has consistently been a very good QB for 17 years in both the regular season and the playoffs. In addition to his more Super Bowl appearances, his career stats are light years ahead of Montanas in every category.

As for Favre, he was until a year ago, the all time leading yardage passer in the NFL and did win one himself.


You have to combine rings, career stats, leadership, and effectiveness.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I think Rodgers can overtake him by the time both are done. Brady will have longevity, Rodgers has an insane god-like peak.
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Rodgers will struggle to get to the Super Bowl numbers of Brady and Montana, but that of course won't define him as it did them. If he can win one or two more, continue with his stats and retain a 100+ career QB rating then he will definitely move up the list and be on Brady's level.

BTW, I can't stand Brady - but I don't begrudge the guy his achievements.
 
I agree with a lot of what you are all saying regarding Brady's achievements, particular his playoff and championship record. They add to his greatness, no doubt, but are less indicative him of being 'better' than another quarterback.

Brady would never have achieved this level of success on a bum franchise like the Browns or Jaguars (sorry if there are any fans of them on this forum). Similarly there are certainly quarterbacks other than Brady who would have achieved more or less the same as him if their team was coached by Belichick (who went 11-5 with Matt Cassel!). That is why I feel team success, and his statistics to an extent, cannot really be used to determine if he is the best - but can be used to say he is the greatest.

I feel can rattle off at least five quarterbacks who I rate higher than Brady on a talent standpoint. That's being conservative.
 
Using rings to judge who is better is daft. It's like saying John O'Shea is one of the best to ever play in the PL because he's got 5 league winners medals.
 
It's difficult to do a stat comparison across era's even Montana played in a completely different era from Brady, the rules have continued to change to favor passing, defensive styles change, etc. Super Bowl wins can not alone be the determination, the NFC that Montana had to win each season was on monster at the time, you had the Redskin and Giant dynasties that had to be overcome each season, the Bears legendary D for a few seasons, but on the flip side once you made the Super Bowl you got to play the winner of the AFC which was pretty horrible back in the 80's. There really is not formula to go with, everyone's going to focus on the stats, feelings, memories, etc they have of the player and decide.
 
Rado_N said:
Using rings to judge who is better is daft. It's like saying John O'Shea is one of the best to ever play in the PL because he's got 5 league winners medals.
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You know that argument doesn't hold up when it comes to stuff like this.

Of course we can use rings to judge starting quarterbacks - It's why Dan Marino despite all the records has always been talked down. It's why, Jordan is what he is.

Rings are why so many people place Peyton behind Brady. Because Brady and his teams got it done in the postseason and won the big one, again and again.

We aren't speaking of the 53rd man on the roster or Trent Dilfer.
 
altodevil86 said:
I agree with a lot of what you are all saying regarding Brady's achievements, particular his playoff and championship record. They add to his greatness, no doubt, but are less indicative him of being 'better' than another quarterback.

Brady would never have achieved this level of success on a bum franchise like the Browns or Jaguars (sorry if there are any fans of them on this forum). Similarly there are certainly quarterbacks other than Brady who would have achieved more or less the same as him if their team was coached by Belichick (who went 11-5 with Matt Cassel!). That is why I feel team success, and his statistics to an extent, cannot really be used to determine if he is the best - but can be used to say he is the greatest.

I feel can rattle off at least five quarterbacks who I rate higher than Brady on a talent standpoint. That's being conservative.
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That's precisely why you don't go by rings or stats individually. You have to combine them to form an opinion. We all know rings by themselves are a misleading variable since if you give them too much weight then you have to answer why you think Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco are better than Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton. That said, when you add rings and stats into the mix then you can look at who has won the most and what are their individual career stats like. When you do that Brady is comfortably on top.

Also, I often hear arguments like - Brady played for a great team, put Rodgers on the Patriots and Brady on the Packers and Rodgers would be better. This imo is a meaningless hypothetical that will never be realized and should therefore be eliminated from the discussion. What should be included are the real results each player has achieved over their careers.
 
Neutral said:
You know that argument doesn't hold up when it comes to stuff like this.

Of course we can use rings to judge starting quarterbacks - It's why Dan Marino despite all the records has always been talked down. It's why, Jordan is what he is.

Rings are why so many people place Peyton behind Brady. Because Brady and his teams got it done in the postseason and won the big one, again and again.

We aren't speaking of the 53rd man on the roster or Trent Dilfer.
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Rings alone is the problem. Bradshaw over Marino, Eli Manning over Jim Kelly and Tarkenton, Joe Flacco over Dan Fouts, Brad Johnson over [the] Warren Moon etc.
 
Neutral said:
You know that argument doesn't hold up when it comes to stuff like this.

Of course we can use rings to judge starting quarterbacks - It's why Dan Marino despite all the records has always been talked down. It's why, Jordan is what he is.

Rings are why so many people place Peyton behind Brady. Because Brady and his teams got it done in the postseason and won the big one, again and again.

We aren't speaking of the 53rd man on the roster or Trent Dilfer.
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It does hold up though. It's obviously an extreme example but the point still stands.

As someone said above, put Brady by himself into the Jags or Browns and he's not winning anything. SB wins are too simplistic a measure.

Eli isn't on the same level as Peyton, for example, in spite of them both having 2.
 
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