NFL 2016/17

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rpitroda said:
I'd put Ryan instead of Carr in my top 3 but agree with your 1 & 2 and their order. It's easy to overlook that Atlanta has one of the leagues worst defences which makes it pretty special that he has done what he's done. Granted you could say that he's got good receivers a la Julio.

Question is does it count against or for Zeke that he's a rookie? As far as I know no rookie has ever won the league MVP.
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Shouldn't matter that he's a rookie or not, imo. I also think he'll maybe get overlooked because people will focus on the strength of his Oline. Regardless of that, I think the Cowboys wouldn't have come close to a 12-2 record without him and that's why he should win it.

I was actually pondering about Carr or Ryan at 3th place. Ryan has been very good this season but he plays in an underwhelming NFC South and his team currently 'only' sits at 9-5 (I know that's also due to a very bad defense but still). Carr has lifted the level of the Raiders in the strongest division of the NFL and got them to the playoffs for the first time in yonks, he definitely has a better defense and I think his WR options are as good as Ryan's, but still he edges it for me.
 
RobinLFC said:
Shouldn't matter that he's a rookie or not, imo. I also think he'll maybe get overlooked because people will focus on the strength of his Oline. Regardless of that, I think the Cowboys wouldn't have come close to a 12-2 record without him and that's why he should win it.

I was actually pondering about Carr or Ryan at 3th place. Ryan has been very good this season but he plays in an underwhelming NFC South and his team currently 'only' sits at 9-5 (I know that's also due to a very bad defense but still). Carr has lifted the level of the Raiders in the strongest division of the NFL and got them to the playoffs for the first time in yonks, he definitely has a better defense and I think his WR options are as good as Ryan's, but still he edges it for me.
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Agree on Zeke. He's done an unbelievable job. And yes, he has it easier than some backs just because of that O-line but it ain't all down to the O-line. Some of his moves and his reading of the gaps and the way he fights for yards, that's all him.

I disagree though on Ryan. NFC South is not that weak of a conference despite the record and additionally the division they played in the AFC this year? The West. Where they beat the Raiders and Broncos but lost to the Chargers and Chiefs for a combined total of 4 points. Given they played that division it somewhat negates the argument, IMO, that Carr is in a tougher division.

I like Carr very much and actually he's got a good shout too and I incorrectly overlooked him, just feel that the defensive quality is a big thing for me. Look at Rodgers, easily the leagues best QB, for example. Last 4/5 games that defence has been solid, he looks back to vintage. But before that when their defence was toothless, he really struggled. Not just because he couldn't outscore opponents but also his performances were worse too. Not saying that's only down to the performance of the D but feel there is a key correlation. Atlanta has an atrocious defence and the stats show it. Which is why I would pick him!
 
rpitroda said:
He's done an unbelievable job
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It's not really an "unbelievable job" given his O line is so good he's on track for 1000 yards before contact and still has less TD's than David Johnson. He's been very good, and it's made even more impressive by the fact he's a rookie, but it's not like he's having one of those seasons that will be talked about for years and years to come.
 
Joemo said:
It's not really an "unbelievable job" given his O line is so good he's on track for 1000 yards before contact and still has less TD's than David Johnson. He's been very good, and it's made even more impressive by the fact he's a rookie, but it's not like he's having one of those seasons that will be talked about for years and years to come.
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Lots of yards before contact doesn't necessarily just mean good O-line. It's also a product of his movement and the way he reads the field. Also evidenced by the fact he has 13 runs of over 20, vs johnson's 5.

He's about 250 yards away from the all time rush yardage record for a rookie. So yeah, it's a pretty big season which mans will remember.
 
Anybody arguing Brady for MVP has to consider Bell into the argument too for similar reasons on missing games but still being up there. Bell has the 3rd most rushing yards in the NFL despite missing three games. 2nd in receiving yards at the RB position too.
 
rpitroda said:
Lots of yards before contact doesn't necessarily just mean good O-line. It's also a product of his movement and the way he reads the field. Also evidenced by the fact he has 13 runs of over 20, vs johnson's 5.

He's about 250 yards away from the all time rush yardage record for a rookie. So yeah, it's a pretty big season which mans will remember.
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To be fair, he is running behind a great O line and very often the running lanes are huge. He is very good but that O Line makes a huge difference.
 
Elliot for me. Constant difference maker.

Did Dallas improve their Oline massively in the last off-season? Whoever their RB was last year did nada behind the line. (Christine Michael?)
 
Phil said:
Elliot for me. Constant difference maker.

Did Dallas improve their Oline massively in the last off-season? Whoever their RB was last year did nada behind the line. (Christine Michael?)
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They had a commitee and a "bad" one, Mcfadden still managed +1000 yards, Dunbar +200 yards and I can't remember the last one. In 2014, they had Murray and his +2000 yards.
 
JPRouve said:
To be fair, he is running behind a great O line and very often the running lanes are huge. He is very good but that O Line makes a huge difference.
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I'm not doubting that or saying that isn't true. And if he doesn't win then that's what will have counted against him. I'm in no way saying Zeke should be winning by some kind of landslide here. All the top candidates have a "but".

Elliot's "but" is he plays behind the leagues best O-line.
Brady's "but" is he missed games and so a certain level of extrapolation is being considered for him.
Ryan's "but" is a solid run game and an unbelievable WR.
Rodgers "but" is he has misfired at times this year.

Etc.

I'm saying two things:

1) On the balance of all of the above it's my view that Elliot should get it but only just.

2) If you're telling me Elliot has only had a good-very good year and the rest is down to the O-line then I'm saying very sorry but I disagree.

I watch every single game each week as I have game pass and time to kill to and from work on the train - so I'm not just saying it for saying sake! I just think it hasn't just been the O-line but also the fact that at times Elliot has been exceptional.

Of course it has an effect but based on what I've seen I don't think it's fair to primarily say it's the o line and that is that. Can disagree of course though.
 
@rpitroda My post is mainly about the first sentence, the cowboys have a great O line and it's far easier to run behind them, now Elliott's had a great season not only as a rusher but also as a pass blocker which definitely makes him a candidate but your post made me think that you weren't giving all it's due to that O line.
 
JPRouve said:
@rpitroda My post is mainly about the first sentence, the cowboys have a great O line and it's far easier to run behind them, now Elliott's had a great season not only as a rusher but also as a pass blocker which definitely makes him a candidate but your post made me think that you weren't giving all it's due to that O line.
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Fairs. I certainly do recognise the o-line. It's blatantly obvious it makes him even better and they are one of if not the best in the league.

That first sentence was mainly to debunk the theory that yards before contact is ONLY due to great o-line play which is what the post I quoted insinuated, which I don't agree with. Of course it plays a part. The o-line plays a huge role in everything good Elliot does.
 
rpitroda said:
Lots of yards before contact doesn't necessarily just mean good O-line. It's also a product of his movement and the way he reads the field. Also evidenced by the fact he has 13 runs of over 20, vs johnson's 5.

He's about 250 yards away from the all time rush yardage record for a rookie. So yeah, it's a pretty big season which mans will remember.
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The Cowboys averaged 4.6 yards per carry with McFadden and replacement level quarterbacks and this year they averaged 4.8 yards per carry with Elliot and Prescott.
 
Eboue said:
The Cowboys averaged 4.6 yards per carry with McFadden and replacement level quarterbacks and this year they averaged 4.8 yards per carry with Elliot and Prescott.
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Not sure where the stats are from. I have Elliot at 5 p/c on ESPN and McFadden at 4.6 last year. The season before? Murray at 4.7. That's with a pro bowl QB. So yeah, o-line is a factor but clearly Elliot isn't just a good RB behind a great o-line.
 
rpitroda said:
Not sure where the stats are from. I have Elliot at 5 p/c on ESPN and McFadden at 4.6 last year. The season before? Murray at 4.7. That's with a pro bowl QB. So yeah, o-line is a factor but clearly Elliot isn't just a good RB behind a great o-line.
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pro-football-refernce.com. I gave team stats.
 
Eboue said:
The Cowboys averaged 4.6 yards per carry with McFadden and replacement level quarterbacks and this year they averaged 4.8 yards per carry with Elliot and Prescott.
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What's the difference between this and last season then? Surely it can't only be down to Dez being healthy again and a rookie QB if the average yards per carry for the team as a whole differ so little?
 
RobinLFC said:
What's the difference between this and last season then? Surely it can't only be down to Dez being healthy again and a rookie QB if the average yards per carry for the team as a whole differ so little?
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Elliott is a better RB than McFadden and Prescott is a mobile QB which puts defenses in a tough spot.

Edit: And Elliott is an actual threat in the redzone because unlike McFadden he is an heavy runner.
 
RobinLFC said:
What's the difference between this and last season then? Surely it can't only be down to Dez being healthy again and a rookie QB if the average yards per carry for the team as a whole differ so little?
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The quarterback is a big difference. Cassel, Weeden and Moore were replacement level, Prescott has been much better. But the running game hasn't been that much better.
 
Brady with a lovely pass to Bennett for the TD.

Quite a few games on today it seems.
 
An annoying thing about the NFL is when the plucky under dogs you like get good, then you then need a new underdog.
 
So this happened in the Pats game when Jets got flagged: "Ref said... False start: Offense. Everyone but the center." :lol:

Unless a miracle happens, another good win for NE. Jimmy G got minutes. Good day :)

If Raiders lose, we get the #1 seed.
 
Rodgers has thrown some beauties. Packers are getting hot.

Looks like it will go down to the game next weekend between Detroit & GB to see who wins the division.
 
Rodgers more MVP than Brady imo. Even during the 0-4 streak, his numbers were great, just let down by defence being... well yeah.
Think Patriots still win some of the games without Brady (werent they 4-1)?
Without Rodgers Packers dont have a shot at Playoffs with next weeks game (which will be huge)
 
Dolphins!!

Sexy Rexy can't believe it!!

What a messy down. The receiver should've stepped out of bounds. The special teams/kicker did brilliant without TOs.
 
It's a Xmas miracle - Cleveland have won! :eek::eek::eek:
 
Surely it's in Cleveland's best interest to just keep losing??
 
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