Neymar

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Devil You Know said:
The Ballon d'Or is not a meaningful measure of anything. It's always been political. Barcelona and Real Madrid players will tend to win most of them because of the sheer number of Barcelona and Real Madrid fans in the footballing world.

The PL, especially, is handicapped when it comes to those kinds of individual awards. Even in years when there are English CL winners, players from these shores rarely have the hype and media connections to win the way the Spanish giants can't get their players to.

Henry was the best player in the world for at least 2 or 3 seasons, imo. So was Ronaldinho. Neymar was worse than both.
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Do you even understand how voting for balon d'or happens? Only the best football journalists across the world get a vote to ensure all countries have a voice. Its a trophy held in the utmost highest regard by the football world. Winning it is a dream for most players.

The initial shortlist consisting of 30 names in contention for the Ballon d'Or is assembled by the editorial team at France Football, a French weekly football publication that is one of the most respected publications within the game.

Following the compilation of the 30-man shortlist, a jury of journalists representing a variety of footballing nations is put together, and they will then be given the task of voting for the players they deem worthy of first, second and third place.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
There is no cogent argument to pick neymar over ronaldinho
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Actually there is a cogent argument, Neymar is more productive in goals and assists than Ronaldinho.
The eye test says prime Ronaldinho was better than prime Neymar, and I tend to agree with that.
Ronaldinho really seemed unplayable at his peak, while being the main man of his team and arguably the best player in the world at that time.
Neymar, at his peak, had 3 or 4 players more influential than him in his own team.
 
Maluco said:
He did. You must have never watched him early on in his career. I haven’t seen anyone like him since. He was prodigious and as talented as anyone playing football today. He was tenacious, hard working, had great vision, could score goals and his dribbling was second to no one.

He had the world at his feet and made bad choices. PSG are a mess and he just ended up being part of that mess.
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Talent and drive are two very different things. Both are required to become an all time great
 
Talk of a 80m€+ transfer fee that could reach below 100 with add-ons. Plus the insane wage package attached.
Seems it's essentially done, expected confirmation today.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I know some PSG fans highly rate all he did in Paris before his first major injury, to them debatably the best to ever do it, above Ronnie, at Le Parc.
But yeah huge sympathy deficit. He never had the smile of Ronaldo, Ronnie or Fred.
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That smile is enough for me to tell my future grandkids about Fred and keep the myth alive.
 
Probably the biggest waste of talent in football history solely because of his career choices. What could have been.
 
Kammy26 said:
Carried?

Did you watch WC 2002? Ronaldinho was arguably Brazils best player up to the quarter finals. Also included in the team of the tournament.
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I'll admit it was quite the hyperbole, especially on an England-centric forum when he scored that FK in the QF. My general point still stands though - it was way easierless hard for Ronnie to win a WC with this squad than for Neymar with the teammates he's had (without even taking into account the awful luck he's had with injuries around and in WCs).
 
antk said:
I'll admit it was quite the hyperbole, especially on an England-centric forum when he scored that FK in the QF. My general point still stands though - it was way easierless hard for Ronnie to win a WC with this squad than for Neymar with the teammates he's had (without even taking into account the awful luck he's had with injuries around and in WCs).
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Ronaldinho was something else, what he would do with the ball and see on the pitch was like watching someone play FIFA.

Absolute best for me in my lifetime.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I know some PSG fans highly rate all he did in Paris before his first major injury, to them debatably the best to ever do it, above Ronnie, at Le Parc.
But yeah huge sympathy deficit. He never had the smile of Ronaldo, Ronnie or Fred.
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I’d also rank PSG Neymar over PSG Ronaldinho. Neymar’s first couple of seasons in Paris were special and looked like he was stepping up just as Messi and Cristiano were slowing down. There was a consistency and purpose to his game I don’t think Ronaldinho reached in Paris whose move to Spain was the point he shifted into a fully blown world-beater.
 
Skills said:
All time top scorer for Brazil. That's hardly a waste.
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It is a great achievement. But I think there is no denying his career has been a huge disappointment all things considered. I understood his PSG move at the time but he should have left the club years ago when it became clear that it's not going anywhere and that the pampering he received there was holding him back. And going to Saudi Arabia now.. it is just so ambitionless. He should feel as if he has unfinished business and instead he calls it quit because nobody is willing to pay what he demands.
 
Zehner said:
It is a great achievement. But I think there is no denying his career has been a huge disappointment all things considered. I understood his PSG move at the time but he should have left the club years ago when it became clear that it's not going anywhere and that the pampering he received there was holding him back. And going to Saudi Arabia now.. it is just so ambitionless. He should feel as if he has unfinished business and instead he calls it quit because nobody is willing to pay what he demands.
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...or because he had 2 disappointing World Cups since joining PSG
 
Honestly shocking that he's choosing to effectively 'retire' at the age of 31.

He's way too good for that league even with his injury woes.

Hindsight's 20-20, but he never should have left Barcelona.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Honestly shocking that he's choosing to effectively 'retire' at the age of 31.

He's way too good for that league even with his injury woes.

Hindsight's 20-20, but he never should have left Barcelona.
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Agree - he’s basically calling time on his career…..lost his footballing desire to cash - could have done so much more.

That move to PSG really was a bad decision. And this one trumps that.
 
A massive signing for the Saudi league. It's going to be hard to at least not take a look and watch highlights with all the quality players they have now.

It was the only credible destination for Neymar after he notified PSG that he wanted to leave this summer. No european top clubs could afford the transfer fee and the wages, especially for a 31-year-old injury prone player.

It's a shame that he's leaving Europe though because he still has a lot left in the tank when fit. He was PSG's best player last season before the WC.
 
Gio said:
I’d also rank PSG Neymar over PSG Ronaldinho. Neymar’s first couple of seasons in Paris were special and looked like he was stepping up just as Messi and Cristiano were slowing down. There was a consistency and purpose to his game I don’t think Ronaldinho reached in Paris whose move to Spain was the point he shifted into a fully blown world-beater.
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PSG ronaldinho defintely wasn't the the finished article that we saw at Barcelona. His explosion at barcelona was dazzling.

I recall seeing a young ronaldinho and mikel arteta play for PSG at ibrox in CL. That particular night arteta stood out aa their most inpressive midfielder.

Tbh, the longevity and luck with serious injuries of messi and CR7 have distorted the balon d'or somewhat. It used to be a season or two of utter brilliance from a player before they fell away from the summit. Sort of analogus to a star going supernova, you can see it getting bigger and bigger, then it explodes and then shrinks back to a size much smaller than its original state.

We used to have the supernova bursts for balon d'or. Its a shame that neymar's supernova moment should have happened at his peak years at PSG, entirely the wrong stage for it, especially with a lad called Mbappe there.

He would have lit up the PL, and become a better player for it. Especially as his diving/play acting historonics would have been quickly removed from his game in PL.

Its a shame.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Honestly shocking that he's choosing to effectively 'retire' at the age of 31.

He's way too good for that league even with his injury woes.

Hindsight's 20-20, but he never should have left Barcelona.
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Hardly "shocking" when you consider the money involved. From a fan point of view, it's maybe hard to understand why a professional wouldn't want to play at the highest level for as long as possible. But honestly, 150mil a year would be very difficult to turn down for anyone!
 
He was at the top of the world and just threw it away. The PSG stint has been largely forgettable, he's uber-wealthy now though at least.
 
Neymar is one of the biggest what if in football

If he had a better mentality, life style, stopped carrying the ball so long everytime, he would have a few ballon d or wherever he played
 
MrMarcello said:
R9 in today's era would have joined a super club winning everything in sight. He'd probably have been Benzema in that ridiculous Real side.
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Yeah because R9 didn't play for PSV, Inter, Barcelona, Real Madrid and AC Milan, yet only won 1 league title and 0 CL titles. He already played for top clubs. Neymar had a far better club career.

Yes R9 won the world cup in 2002 and was the top scorer in WC history for a while, but lets not pretend that 2002 Brazil wasn't packed with insane talent, and if you replaced R9 with Neymar in that team they would have likely still won the WC.

R9 is massively over hyped, considering he barely won any significant trophies, yet Neymar gets slated by many for not achieving more than he should have.
 
sglowrider said:
I think his injuries and rushing back early in his career from it didn't help.
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Sure but they have to do eith his lifestyle and his lifestyle was amplified by playing for a club that treated him like a king and where 80% was enough to still win titles. It is a similar story with players such as Verratti.

He could very well have sought a restart somewhere else. He almost left PSG on a couple of occasions but ended up staying anyway.
 
The Ronaldinho comparison is interesting because he also fell by the wayside after 26 but is universally revered whereas Neymar seems like he will have a cloud of disappointment all over him from now on. Personally I feel if Ronaldinho played where every match of his was available to be seen in full all around the world and with people hyper focusing on his bad moments, his negatives he would have suffered the same reputational fall. Pep basically did that when he chucked him out of Barca. I liked him a lot as a player but he was really the first Youtube footballer at a time when being a Youtube footballer was not a bad thing. People growing up saw the majestic dribbles and mercurial tricks but the warts were hidden.
 
mshnsh said:
Not really. Neymar is your typical gifted Brazilian street footballer. If you consider Vinicius to be talented, Neymar's talent is on another level.

When Cristiano was a teenager, his talent was considered at a similar level to other teen footballers like Quaresma, Robben etc. On the other hand, Neymar was considered a "generational talent".

I was a huge fan of Cristiano during his first stint here at United even when he got alot of stick for his performances. Him cutting out the tricks was best for him because they were pointless and looked very mechanical/rehearsed. He often lost the ball and slowed down the play. Than, when it comes to playmaking, you can say that Ronaldo discovered and played to his strength that is goalscoring because while he could produce a good pass at times, he obviously lacked a bit of that vision and ability to execute some of the passes.

On the other side, Neymar seamlessly integrated his superior ball skills into his overall game similar to Ronaldinho from a very early age. He
could do impossible dribbles and great passes that very few I've seen in the history of the game do. But, hus lifestyle, injuries, poor choices, on the pitch shenanigans means he has come this far only based on talent.
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Personally I really do think he is bigger talent than Robben or Quaresma at the start and I don’t really mean just dribbling or ball control type of talent. He has such x factor/raw talent to make things happened out of nowhere, which is kind of rare.

I’ll give 2 objective examples to further illustrate how highly rate his talent was in the beginning:

1. Our players begged Fergie to sign young Ronaldo from Sporting after a friendly game. This is something which is unheard of for any other players before and after.

2. George Best himself claimed its first time ever he felt complimented when people compare young Ronaldo as new George Best, one of the most talented player ever.

But sure I agree Neymar was at elite level of talent too even at the very beginning. He just keep going on and did fulfill all his early promise in terms of his talent (but not achievements).
 
Zehner said:
Probably the biggest waste of talent in football history solely because of his career choices. What could have been.
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This is you projecting your personal values (which apparently doesn't include any accomplishments in the French league) on Neymar, who by all accounts is happily going to Saudi Arabia.

He has a glittered trophy cabinet, including the CL. More trophies than R9 and Ronaldinho. He has a good national career, injuries hindering him at times, otherwise he'd probably have a Copa America title.

How exactly did he waste his talent?
 
Damn, Saudi-Arabia is really throwing their weight around now.

Shame Neymar wasted his prime years in Ligue 1 and is already moving to a non-competitive one.
 
At what point do Saudi dump Newcastle? When they get invited to CL football qualifications?
 
It's such an anti-climax to his career. There's space in the European game right now for someone to step forward as the main man. It's a shame that he doesn't have the drive to go out there and grab it and create a better legacy for himself.

And I can't imagine this move being particularly conducive to a strong World Cup in three years' time.

RedRonaldo said:
Personally I really do think he is bigger talent than Robben or Quaresma at the start and I don’t really mean just dribbling or ball control type of talent. He has such x factor/raw talent to make things happened out of nowhere, which is kind of rare.

I’ll give 2 objective examples to further illustrate how highly rate his talent was in the beginning:

1. Our players begged Fergie to sign young Ronaldo from Sporting after a friendly game. This is something which is unheard of for any other players before and after.

2. George Best himself claimed its first time ever he felt complimented when people compare young Ronaldo as new George Best, one of the most talented player ever.

But sure I agree Neymar was at elite level of talent too even at the very beginning. He just keep going on and did fulfill all his early promise in terms of his talent (but not achievements).
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Aye, depends how we define talent. Usually it's purely in technical terms, but someone like Cristiano always had immense physical talent that the other players mentioned here didn't have. There's also the mental side where some players were never going to be dedicated and driven enough to make it to and sustain a career at the top.
 
adexkola said:
This is you projecting your personal values (which apparently doesn't include any accomplishments in the French league) on Neymar, who by all accounts is happily going to Saudi Arabia.

He has a glittered trophy cabinet, including the CL. More trophies than R9 and Ronaldinho. He has a good national career, injuries hindering him at times, otherwise he'd probably have a Copa America title.

How exactly did he waste his talent?
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He could have had a couple of Ballon d‘Ors and played for any club. Instead he retires at 31. Obviously there is talent wasted.
 
Port Vale Devil said:
What a sad end to a career. Money talks and Neymar is a mercenary after all.

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Objectively, it's hard to say he's had a bad career but given his talent level, it's been underwhelming as he could have done so much more.

He's been unfortunate from a fitness perspective but everything else was his own doing.

At the same time, I do sometimes find it hard to knock players for choosing the money as ultimately this is ultimately a job. Neymar has put up great numbers, won the CL, La Liga, Copa Libertadores plus loads of other trophies. He hasn't won the Copa or World Cup but he's generally been brilliant for Brazil and is equal with Pele for the number of goals scored for Brazil and will almost certainly take the lead. Not sure what his international future holds but he'll likely end his career with the 2nd most Brazil caps in history.
 
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