Why we need another Top MF if we already have the most expensive MF in the world. If we manage to sell Pogba this summer, very unlikely, then yes we should go for a good replacement.
Next United manager who can get Raphinha + A world class nr.8 and a upcoming CB will succeed
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Why we need another Top MF if we already have the most expensive MF in the world. If we manage to sell Pogba this summer, very unlikely, then yes we should go for a good replacement.
To become a complete team, United need four things to happen:
1) Improve central midfield - via better player(s) or tactical change
2) Determine the long-term CF/striker - Martial? Greenwood? Haaland? Other?
3) Sort out the long-term GK - It's not DDG, so do you go with Henderson or take a chance a Lloris?
4) Is Ole the answer? I appreciate and love what he's done, but he's not a better manager compared to Pep, Klopp, Tuchel. And there is merit to say that Biesla and Rodgers are better, in their own ways. Does United stick or twist with Ole if/when the above 3 things happen? Regardless of who the manager is, those 3 need to happen.
1) Improve central midfield - via better player(s) or tactical change
2) Determine the long-term CF/striker - Martial? Greenwood? Haaland? Other?
3) Sort out the long-term GK - It's not DDG, so do you go with Henderson or take a chance a Lloris?
4) Is Ole the answer? I appreciate and love what he's done, but he's not a better manager compared to Pep, Klopp, Tuchel. And there is merit to say that Biesla and Rodgers are better, in their own ways. Does United stick or twist with Ole if/when the above 3 things happen? Regardless of who the manager is, those 3 need to happen.
How's that worked out so far?
Are you seriously telling me you've watched United's dysfunctional midfield for the past however many years and have come to the conclusion that it's grand because we have Pogba?
This has to be a wum.
This reminded me of a previous thread by OP. Interesting to see what’s changed except for we still need Scholes.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/united-will-win-the-league-if.460798/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/united-will-win-the-league-if.460798/
I don't think Martin Keown is going help us win anything at this moment in time.
Yes MOOR
Have you seen the team that City have ?
After Scholes was Schweinsteiger???
No question he was a great player in his peak, but at United, he wasn't even a shadow of his former self on the pitch, basically, we paid him 200k a week to nurse his injuries in the last few years of his career, and from what I remember there were even questions about his professionalism, taking every opportunity he could to fly back to Germany when he was meant to be rehabbing, no idea if that was true, but certainly what we got on the field was not performances befitting the name, altogether he was an awful signing.
But in general, I agree with the rest of your post (though I think you downplay how good Bruno has been).
Center mid is certainly our weakest position. I think Mcfred have been solid, but really neither of them are true defensive midfielders and neither really provide much in terms of creativity. Though Both have a good work rate and cover a lot of ground. But can you win the league with just a functional center midfield? Maybe Liverpool did it 2 years back I wouldn't say any of the 3 midfielders they generally played had much in terms of creativity.
And if we ditch Mcfred what do we do? Can Pogba play in a midfield 2 consistency? really we are yet to see that beyond the string of games in the latter stages of the world cup, he has mainly struggled to be consistent in that role. Personally, I think he had his best season for us last year playing on the left. So there are so many questions about Pogba in that position.
- Will he stay?
- Can he be consistent in the role and not go missing from games which he has a tendency to do?
- Who will play beside him? Neither Fred or Mctominay have shone as the sole DM, and Matic is not the player he was 5 years go and its certinly doubtful he has the legs to cover the ground needed to play alongside Pogba
I guess the positive is at least we have options, as it seems very unlikely we will be signing anyone else unless Pogba goes, and let us face it with Messi going to PSG there is no one with any money to buy him
Top commanding midfielder in Keano mode.
No 3 is the critical unknown.
Some of what I witnessed last year wasn't down to a lack of the right players-there were many matches where our first 11 were far superior on paper compared with the opposition.....our tactics and dare I say it, energy were poor.
If you look as the squad as a whole, with 2 players for every position,
De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Fred
Sancho Fernandes Rashford
Cavani
Henderson
Dalot Bailly Lindelof Telles
VDB Matic
Greenwood Lingard James
Martial
I don’t think it’s a bad looking squad at all, certainly the best we’ve had for a good few years.
Starting from the back I agree that the GK situation needs sorting, we have 2 possibly 3 first team keepers and one of De Gea or Henderson needs to go. There are still question marks over Dalot, whether or not he’s good enough to be back up.. this season will be a great test for him, I guess it will be accessed at the end of the season.
As for the midfield, if Ole is looking to adjust to a 4-3-3 a world class defensive midfielder is needed, as I don’t think Matic has the legs and I don’t think Fred has the ability on the ball. I suspect this will be Matic’s last season anyway. The Pogba situation also needs sorting, and if he does leave he will need replacing.
The forward areas are the strongest, perfect for this season with plenty of depth and the starting XI is plenty strong enough, also plenty of prospects coming through the ranks. With Cavani leaving at the end of the season a striker will be needed (Haaland
), but for this season Cavani and Martial are more than enough.
De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Fred
Sancho Fernandes Rashford
Cavani
Henderson
Dalot Bailly Lindelof Telles
VDB Matic
Greenwood Lingard James
Martial
I don’t think it’s a bad looking squad at all, certainly the best we’ve had for a good few years.
Starting from the back I agree that the GK situation needs sorting, we have 2 possibly 3 first team keepers and one of De Gea or Henderson needs to go. There are still question marks over Dalot, whether or not he’s good enough to be back up.. this season will be a great test for him, I guess it will be accessed at the end of the season.
As for the midfield, if Ole is looking to adjust to a 4-3-3 a world class defensive midfielder is needed, as I don’t think Matic has the legs and I don’t think Fred has the ability on the ball. I suspect this will be Matic’s last season anyway. The Pogba situation also needs sorting, and if he does leave he will need replacing.
The forward areas are the strongest, perfect for this season with plenty of depth and the starting XI is plenty strong enough, also plenty of prospects coming through the ranks. With Cavani leaving at the end of the season a striker will be needed (Haaland
), but for this season Cavani and Martial are more than enough.We have enough good players to compete. No excuses. Threads like this are pointless and downplays how stacked our team is.
We actually have a squad right now capable of winning the PL trophy, but we will need a bit of help from the gods in helping City stumbling a bit. Even if we hit top gear all season, if City hit top gear all season we're going to come up short of City. I am assuming they'll bring in Kane.
But will De Gea and Pogba return to and remain in top gear all season?
But will De Gea and Pogba return to and remain in top gear all season?
I can understand and empathize with poor energy because last year was a compressed season (shorter season) with a lot of matches for United even before a non-existent pre-season, more than most clubs and felt like they played midweek for too many months. And with Covid protocols in place, it wasn't the same. And while United might have some superior players, I think because they are still young and learning to win, their bare minimum performances can be really low.
The squad is good enough to compete for much longer into the season if we're looking at last year, that much is clear.
However, I don't think the team is as stacked as you and others believe because the other top 3 teams are just as stacked, if not better. And the biggest difference is that they've won something together and have more experience than United.
Varane and Sancho haven't won anything with United, same with AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, Henderson, McTominay, Fred, Greenwood, James, Bruno, Cavani.
United don't have a settled GK and central midfield in terms of talent and functionality...it's 4th best behind City, Liverpool, and Chelsea. United's attacking line is probably better than City and maybe Chelsea, but it's close.
A top class manager!?
Am I doing this right?
Am I doing this right?
Chelsea is definitely inferior to us. Only City and Liverpool are neck and neck with us. I dont care what others have won because luck(injuries) plays a lot into most of these cup wins but the League table never lies. We are a very good team and have also added two superstars to support us even further. Varane should help on corners and strength in defense which we were lacking in lindelof being bullied off the ball every other week. Sancho is an extra outlet of creativity and firepower in attack to replace having James against teams we need to break down. There is also no way Martial has another stinker of a season so theres that. There are no excuses for us not competing for the title. Even if we don't win it we need to be very close come May.
Don't agree that Chelsea is inferior, especially how they are setup with a back 3 and their central midfield is better. Chelsea are equal to United and remains to see if Chelsea can improve on their play post-Tuchel, especially now that they have a clear CF in Lukaku. United's challenge is to improve upon from last year and see the consistency from Shawberto, but if Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, etc. kick on...then as Ole said, wouldn't put anything past this group. Don't expect Liverpool to suffer as much as they did, even if VVD continues to improve from his injury.
Yes, the table never lies, completely agree. But looking around you, the other teams have gotten better or have reinforced.
Inside 9 points from top, whether that's 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 1st itself would be fine. I am looking forward to this being the most competitive PL title ever, with at least 3 teams going for it, with United being one of them.
A top class centre-midfielder who actually performs week-in, week-out.
A top class centre-forward who guarantees 30 goals a season.
edit: Also if De Gea or Henderson dont step up this season a Goalkeeper will be needed.
A top class centre-forward who guarantees 30 goals a season.
edit: Also if De Gea or Henderson dont step up this season a Goalkeeper will be needed.
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We had a terrible run when an unfit (or un-interested) Pogba started. We had a decent run when Pogba was injured. We finally managed to fit both Pogba and Bruno into a team and had a decent run, although our results in big games have been average to disappointing.
While I agree we are better off with a new MF, but nothing is going to happen UNTIL and UNLESS Pogba is gone. With PSG out of the market, who else can afford his wage? With Pogba still on our book, do you think MU will spend 80m for a top MF, and leave Pogba on the bench, earning his 290K?
We just have to make do with POGBA until he is gone. Only breakthrough is VDB, if his form is great, we might be able to afford Pogba on the bench, or salvage 10-20m this Dec.
The one player we truly need to become complete team is an offensive and deep laying midfield player.
Still need 2 more midfielders unless VDB can show he is up to the task, then we need one more midfielder. De Gea has to step up and regain his form which I am confident he will do, otherwise, I just don't think Henderson is good enough. AWB needs to step up his attacking. It is simply not good enough at the moment, he has the ability but is so conservative. We need the right back to attack and draw some attention and give more freedom for Sancho to perform.
We still need two midfielders (CM/CDM) and a top forward and GK before we can even think about winning big trophies.
We still have a midfield issue if we want to play Bruno and Pogba together. We need a DM although I’m hoping two strong CB will help us in this area.
And I think Wan Bissaka is awful going forward. It would have been good to get Trippier.
Ultimately the club is making the right decisions and can see where our weaknesses are. I find we never sort out the issues in one summer which is frustrating, albeit there are more constraints now with COVID hitting finances.
And I think Wan Bissaka is awful going forward. It would have been good to get Trippier.
Ultimately the club is making the right decisions and can see where our weaknesses are. I find we never sort out the issues in one summer which is frustrating, albeit there are more constraints now with COVID hitting finances.
Even with Varane, Sancho and Cavani in the starting line up. But with Fred and Matic or McTom as the CM duo and Pogba still as left winger.
United and ole definitely have problem to fix and solve. Trust me. I am like a car mechanic. If your car have a problem and bring it to me. I will find where the problem of the car and solve it.
Bring me your United team and how you line up the team. I will be able to find the problem of and weakness of your team. I have play and watch football a lot. Since 1986. Trough United golden era in the 90. Brazil and France golden era in the late 90 and early 2000. Arsenal invisble team. Barcelona and Spain golden generation. Trought that the observing and analizing abilities rise.
Example. Life after Eric Cantona. United still had the class 92 to cope and handle that loss or Cantona.
Life after a world class player C.Ronaldo. United still had Scholes, Giggs, Rooney and Van Persie
Life after Scholes and Giggs. United ship start to sink. Until the arriving of a Bruno is lifting has lift United ship a lot. BUT still. With Bruno and Pogba. United are still struggling to beat middfle table team Sotton. Why?United are still missing the nr.8 or the hole after Paul Scholes havent been covererd or fix and solve yet.
Until this nr.8 problem and issue havent been fix. Years after years and season after season. United stuggle to create clear cut chances and break tight defend down. Because the main and brain of the team is still missing.
Internal solution = Ole and United have to one Pogba and Bruno as nr.8 beside a DM nr.6.
Sorry and honest to say. Matic on the top level is over.
But back to the nr.8. Do Ole trust Pogba as nr.8?Special against middle table teams. Because agains top teams. Ole is playing Fred and McTom. And it might work if United have really 4 offensive 4 upfront. But against tight defend and open them up. You need a really creative and complete nr.8. Can handle and do nearly everything with the ball. Most kind of passes and combination. To open up a tigh defend.
And if Ole and United will not go for the Internal solution. By using Pogba as nr.8 against team United will dominate. Then a external solution is = Youri Tielemans from Leicester. The nr.8 from Leicester.
A visual and video description of him. What United is missing and need. To solve the nr.8 and cm problem :
Hopefully 1.Sep is still enough time. If Pogba keep playing as left winger and Bruno as nr.10. Only McTom, Fred, Matic and minimal used DVB as cm options. Simply not good enough for premier league title. A regular cm duo McTom and Fred might struggle to get top 4 spot this year too. Special if Spurs are doing really well this year. Then you have City, Liverpool and Chelsea above United.
Solve and fix the nr.8 problem and issue. If you want the United car to reach the max and full pontential. United still can improve and strength. The nr.8 position. The missing link. And the last missing link. A peak Paul Scholes will help United winning the premier league in the coming years.
Tielemans at 24. I think and believe is ready to take the next and last level. Playing with the best and against the best.
United and ole definitely have problem to fix and solve. Trust me. I am like a car mechanic. If your car have a problem and bring it to me. I will find where the problem of the car and solve it.
Bring me your United team and how you line up the team. I will be able to find the problem of and weakness of your team. I have play and watch football a lot. Since 1986. Trough United golden era in the 90. Brazil and France golden era in the late 90 and early 2000. Arsenal invisble team. Barcelona and Spain golden generation. Trought that the observing and analizing abilities rise.
Example. Life after Eric Cantona. United still had the class 92 to cope and handle that loss or Cantona.
Life after a world class player C.Ronaldo. United still had Scholes, Giggs, Rooney and Van Persie
Life after Scholes and Giggs. United ship start to sink. Until the arriving of a Bruno is lifting has lift United ship a lot. BUT still. With Bruno and Pogba. United are still struggling to beat middfle table team Sotton. Why?United are still missing the nr.8 or the hole after Paul Scholes havent been covererd or fix and solve yet.
Until this nr.8 problem and issue havent been fix. Years after years and season after season. United stuggle to create clear cut chances and break tight defend down. Because the main and brain of the team is still missing.
Internal solution = Ole and United have to one Pogba and Bruno as nr.8 beside a DM nr.6.
Sorry and honest to say. Matic on the top level is over.
But back to the nr.8. Do Ole trust Pogba as nr.8?Special against middle table teams. Because agains top teams. Ole is playing Fred and McTom. And it might work if United have really 4 offensive 4 upfront. But against tight defend and open them up. You need a really creative and complete nr.8. Can handle and do nearly everything with the ball. Most kind of passes and combination. To open up a tigh defend.
And if Ole and United will not go for the Internal solution. By using Pogba as nr.8 against team United will dominate. Then a external solution is = Youri Tielemans from Leicester. The nr.8 from Leicester.
A visual and video description of him. What United is missing and need. To solve the nr.8 and cm problem :
Hopefully 1.Sep is still enough time. If Pogba keep playing as left winger and Bruno as nr.10. Only McTom, Fred, Matic and minimal used DVB as cm options. Simply not good enough for premier league title. A regular cm duo McTom and Fred might struggle to get top 4 spot this year too. Special if Spurs are doing really well this year. Then you have City, Liverpool and Chelsea above United.
Solve and fix the nr.8 problem and issue. If you want the United car to reach the max and full pontential. United still can improve and strength. The nr.8 position. The missing link. And the last missing link. A peak Paul Scholes will help United winning the premier league in the coming years.
Tielemans at 24. I think and believe is ready to take the next and last level. Playing with the best and against the best.
Need another MF.
Not sure about striker. We have to see how good Greenwood is.
Not sure about striker. We have to see how good Greenwood is.
If we are all honest, the missing link is a top class manager.
We all want Ole to do well and continue this year but we all have to accept the reality that a top class manager makes us up there with the other 3 as title favourites.
We have not seen Ole improve in the last 12 months in respects to winning games. yes we lose very few games but we draw alot of games.
The last 20 mins against Southampton was a classic example of when we need to pile pressure, we just cannot. its happened alot over the last 12 months in numerous games.
We all want Ole to do well and continue this year but we all have to accept the reality that a top class manager makes us up there with the other 3 as title favourites.
We have not seen Ole improve in the last 12 months in respects to winning games. yes we lose very few games but we draw alot of games.
The last 20 mins against Southampton was a classic example of when we need to pile pressure, we just cannot. its happened alot over the last 12 months in numerous games.
_______________________De Gea_______________________
___AWB_______Varane_________Maguire____Shaw_____
______________________ELITE DM_____________________
_______________Bruno____________Pogba_____________
_______Sancho________Cavani__________Rashford_____
You would have to split hairs to find a weakness in this team if United can sign a pure destroyer in the mould of Makelele. Get a specialist who loves to defend, win the ball and pass it 5-10 yards to the advanced/creative players that can do something useful with the ball. Pogba needs someone he can rely on to shut the back door. He needs the freedom that can allow him do this thing. Kante gives him that cover for France but United do not have a Kante. McFred basically does the job of one elite defensive midfielder.
I have heard rumours of Saul, Declan Rice, Camavinga and other shiny toys. None of these players is a combative midfielder. Signing any of them would be a repeat of Donny Van de Beek and it would force Ole back to using McFred who gives him the best cover of the back four. The only player I can think of that fits that role is Wilfred Ndidi. He's 24 and he's hardly interested in hollywood passes. He just wants to win the ball and release it to the available player almost immediately. I understand he won't come cheap but United have a lot of fodders they can trade to raise funds.
Any of Jones, Lingard, Daniel James, Matic, Mata, etc. can be sold in this transfer window to raise funds for an elite CDM. Until that position is fixed, United won't be winning anything this season or the next. Not having an elite CDM is solely the reason Ole uses 2 DMs even when playing against a conference league side. A team like Man Utd should be playing one CDM at least against the bottom 10 teams in the PL to put them on a front foot.
Hopefully, Ole will realise this blind spot and get it fixed before the window closes.
Sort the GK out. Is it Henderson or David? I hope Henderson as DeGea seems to be on a decline.
Mid Field is our issue really. We have a ton of good pieces but something is missing. More consistancy in the midfield is sorely needed. If Bruno is being tracked I feel we struggle. Need more creativity and poise on the ball.
Watching us play from the back is scary... so we fixed that with Varane hopefully replacing Lindy.
Mid Field is our issue really. We have a ton of good pieces but something is missing. More consistancy in the midfield is sorely needed. If Bruno is being tracked I feel we struggle. Need more creativity and poise on the ball.
Watching us play from the back is scary... so we fixed that with Varane hopefully replacing Lindy.
There's a mixture of two things the first which is the most evident is that the team isn't coached adequately enough to the extent that the identity of the team's football is consistent. This is revolved around the passing, off ball movement, attacking phases of play etc.
Secondly the spine of the midfield is a problem. This is down to personnel imperfections and that Ole is struggling to accommodate balance. I cannot see any scenario where the coaching drastically improves, so the resolution being a more complete team, depends on having a stronger midfield spine with players who have the influence to make an immediate impact with little need of massive tactical instruction like a Bruno.
A 4-3-3 would give the team and Ole a much better platform to perform because it's a shape that naturally allows for more controlled use of possession in the middle and it would require a defensive midfielder which completely changes the dynamics the club is stuck with having Fred / Mctomminay in a pivot.
Secondly the spine of the midfield is a problem. This is down to personnel imperfections and that Ole is struggling to accommodate balance. I cannot see any scenario where the coaching drastically improves, so the resolution being a more complete team, depends on having a stronger midfield spine with players who have the influence to make an immediate impact with little need of massive tactical instruction like a Bruno.
A 4-3-3 would give the team and Ole a much better platform to perform because it's a shape that naturally allows for more controlled use of possession in the middle and it would require a defensive midfielder which completely changes the dynamics the club is stuck with having Fred / Mctomminay in a pivot.
You guys need to look no further than Orkun Kokcu. He's yours for a measly 35 million. That's even less than Donny van der Beek who has been shite in everything since Dawson's Creek.
And that’s about the same as Rennes want for Cama winger
Elite DM, as simple as that
I cannot fathom how we could end this window without signing a proper midfielder.
It's like staring at a bullet wound and hoping it will miraculously heal itself.
It's like staring at a bullet wound and hoping it will miraculously heal itself.
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Agree but the thought of waiting it out for one is filling me with utter dread
Absolutely negligent and we are now paying the price for spending money badly last summer
Our midfield did feel rather transparent on the weekend.
Yeah so need to pull our finger out and sell Jesse for reasonable fee and decide whether Donny is going to be used too
RB, DCM and a striker.
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