Southgate.
Next permanent manager | Poll updated
- Thread starter Untd55
- Start date
- Status
Of course Zidane brings those trophies with him!
Every manager is defined by what he has won and is respected proportionally to what they have won. It is a game of winners. Do you think anyone would care about Pep if he had never won anything? There are still people who disrespect Pep only because he hasn't won the CL as many times as he could have!
Trophies define manages!
Improvements and style of play and patterns and all that are great! But they are great because, and only because, they help the team win! If they don't help the team win then they are useless tricks for losers and nobody will apply them! At the end of the day only the wins count. And the trophies. Especially for a team like United.
LVG and Koeman come from a different era of Dutch football. Koeman is only 8 years older than Ten Hag, but he started coaching almost 15 years earlier in the Eredivisie, and wasn't held in the same esteem when he joined Southampton.
Ten Hag started out working with Pep at Bayern and has adopted 'modern' tactical principles compared to LVG or Koeman.
He doesn't know the Prem, but nor did Pep, Klopp, or Conte and they adapted pretty quickly.
Indeed, but I wasn’t so much questioning the responsibility for sacking Ole, which I agree is some way off barring a most unlikely collapse.
It’s what the different “stakeholders’” views are that interests me, and how much those views are taken seriously. I could see Woodward and Arnold favouring Zidane as he’s not only a sexy big name but also out of contract. Ronaldo, Varane and Pogba would presumably go along with that.
Murtogh and Fletcher may just be a pair of yes-men; there are plenty on here that believe that. I rather hope they aren’t, and are capable of constructive input that isn’t just ignored. Style of play, risk of not being able to hack it in the EPL; that sort of thing. Not just Instagram followers or nostalgia.
I'd prefer us to go for someone like Potter or Ten Hag but fear we'll just go for another big name.
Please tell me more about the massive United Liverpool rivalry in the 1930's.
Hard to disagree with this and this is certainly the way the squad has been shaped since OGS has come in. This rules Conte out for me as he'd be looking to play with wing backs and not wingers.
I've not seen much of Ajax in all honesty, ten Hag would appear to be a good fit with the direction the club has been travelling.
I don’t want that Conte!
Careful what you wish for. As a club, Ole has rectified the caustic atmosphere around the place, the fact no one rated Moyes and he was out of his depth; LVG and his my way or highway attention to detail which strangled the place; Mourinho and his usual toy throwing. He has attracted top players and given Utd the feel of a top club again. Do you really want to jump back on that managerial merry go round? Where the new recruit isn’t trusted with complete control over the club and we have non footballing people involved in major club decisions?
Where ole is struggling is how to get the most out this amazing attacking squad. When Fergie knew he didn’t have the chops to take on the new breed of managers tactically, he adapted. He brought in Quiroz, then promoted Muelenstein, coaches who could take his principles and adapt for playing against teams who going to come at us in Europe or how to dominate teams with the ball in the premiere league.
My point is, Ole is doing a lot of things right with the club that you DEFINITELY won’t get from another manager. Ole carries weight with the higher ups because of his knowledge of the club. He is a historical figure...a new manager would be a visitor of sorts...an employee... and with the expectations placed on managers at the top level these days...(Jesus, treble CL winning Zidane was put under pressure!) we won’t find someone that can lead the club the way Ole has who stays in it for the long term and provides stability. I say keep Ole- if he is willing to look at the coaches and make some tough decisions. He already brought in a set piece coach. Send Carrick and McKenna off to manage teams alsewhere for experience and bring in some top class defensive/attacking coaches. While coaches tend to work in teams with loyalty to certain managers, Utd are surely a club of significant enough stature to go poach some of the best in the business.
Also-someone like Potter coaching Ronaldo and Varane has some serious Moyes/Rio vibes about it. We have a very strong experienced squad and bringing in a young inexperienced manager (at the top levels) would be a huge mistake.
Where ole is struggling is how to get the most out this amazing attacking squad. When Fergie knew he didn’t have the chops to take on the new breed of managers tactically, he adapted. He brought in Quiroz, then promoted Muelenstein, coaches who could take his principles and adapt for playing against teams who going to come at us in Europe or how to dominate teams with the ball in the premiere league.
My point is, Ole is doing a lot of things right with the club that you DEFINITELY won’t get from another manager. Ole carries weight with the higher ups because of his knowledge of the club. He is a historical figure...a new manager would be a visitor of sorts...an employee... and with the expectations placed on managers at the top level these days...(Jesus, treble CL winning Zidane was put under pressure!) we won’t find someone that can lead the club the way Ole has who stays in it for the long term and provides stability. I say keep Ole- if he is willing to look at the coaches and make some tough decisions. He already brought in a set piece coach. Send Carrick and McKenna off to manage teams alsewhere for experience and bring in some top class defensive/attacking coaches. While coaches tend to work in teams with loyalty to certain managers, Utd are surely a club of significant enough stature to go poach some of the best in the business.
Also-someone like Potter coaching Ronaldo and Varane has some serious Moyes/Rio vibes about it. We have a very strong experienced squad and bringing in a young inexperienced manager (at the top levels) would be a huge mistake.
OK, there are 3 points to discuss about here. I'll go down in order.
As much as we can credit Ole for bringing back camaraderie within the club, there is only a specific limit that can be tolerated. Lingering too long with Ole in the context that nothing changes in terms of performances and results can easily destroy team morale just like Frank Lampard lost team morale at Chelsea. In the current context on the balance of everything we have seen in 3 years, you would think that Ole is like a nicer version of the severely limited David Moyes playing with the same kind of Jose Mourinho-type conservatism on the pitch. There is nothing wrong in saying that Ole hit his own ceiling as a manager.
What people often forget is that football nowadays cannot rely on individualism and moments of brilliance. You need coaching, you need patterns, and you need to guide players in what to do right. It's not a coincidence that Van de Beek and Sancho are struggling right now. They are drilled in systems from the moment they begin as kids. Coaching is like a vital organ in the human body! Virtually all great teams depend on coaching, be it from the manager or from the first-team coaches or both.
If Murtough and Fletcher are exactly doing what they are hired for, then we won't have to worry much anymore. What we used to call as a manager can now be officially downgraded into being the head coach. The last old school manager in club football was Arsène Wenger, and there is no way we will ever seen one again. The next man in charge of the team will be a head coach.
We already explored that question, but Ole is also the one making his bed by keeping 2 coaches who also failed under the previous manager. He could have let Carrick and McKenna go somewhere else to bring more qualified people. Instead, he chose to stick with them and now we're paying the price for their own shortcomings as well. I've always believed that the hallmark of a strong manager is that he won't be afraid to surround himself with strong heads in the coaching staff. On the other hand, a weak manager will surround himself with yes men and inexperienced people. Ole curently belongs in the second category.
And? We have seen many managers and head coaches come and go at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Barcelona and the likes. If you want longevity somewhere at the top, don't expect that from the man on the touchlines with the way football has changed. Head coaches are exactly just that: employees looking to earn the right to taste that loyalty from above. The real longevity is in the vision that people ABOVE the head coach have when they build the team and hire other people working in the football department.
To reiterate my previous point, Ole has had 3 years to replace Carrick and McKenna with people who can bring strengths where Ole has weaknesses. His decision to keep everyone now bears consequences and that thing will only snowball onwards. When Gary Neville, Paul Scholes and Rio Ferdinand have raised questions in the media as they have done, you know that Ole is screwed. No amount of being a "good guy" can save him now.
Speaking of Zidane, he has been there and done that in a far more toxic environment than Manchester United. Unlike Moruino, he has not been broken psychologically by any stretch of the imagination. With the way he has always spoken with great respect about Manchester United without ever being part of the house, I say he looks more than a solid candidate post-Ole. He's probably the only manager available who commands respect to drive big egos towards the same direction and who is not likely to make a fuss with the board unless the CEO is a total a-hole like Fioerntino Perez is.
As much as we can credit Ole for bringing back camaraderie within the club, there is only a specific limit that can be tolerated. Lingering too long with Ole in the context that nothing changes in terms of performances and results can easily destroy team morale just like Frank Lampard lost team morale at Chelsea. In the current context on the balance of everything we have seen in 3 years, you would think that Ole is like a nicer version of the severely limited David Moyes playing with the same kind of Jose Mourinho-type conservatism on the pitch. There is nothing wrong in saying that Ole hit his own ceiling as a manager.
What people often forget is that football nowadays cannot rely on individualism and moments of brilliance. You need coaching, you need patterns, and you need to guide players in what to do right. It's not a coincidence that Van de Beek and Sancho are struggling right now. They are drilled in systems from the moment they begin as kids. Coaching is like a vital organ in the human body! Virtually all great teams depend on coaching, be it from the manager or from the first-team coaches or both.
If Murtough and Fletcher are exactly doing what they are hired for, then we won't have to worry much anymore. What we used to call as a manager can now be officially downgraded into being the head coach. The last old school manager in club football was Arsène Wenger, and there is no way we will ever seen one again. The next man in charge of the team will be a head coach.
We already explored that question, but Ole is also the one making his bed by keeping 2 coaches who also failed under the previous manager. He could have let Carrick and McKenna go somewhere else to bring more qualified people. Instead, he chose to stick with them and now we're paying the price for their own shortcomings as well. I've always believed that the hallmark of a strong manager is that he won't be afraid to surround himself with strong heads in the coaching staff. On the other hand, a weak manager will surround himself with yes men and inexperienced people. Ole curently belongs in the second category.
And? We have seen many managers and head coaches come and go at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Barcelona and the likes. If you want longevity somewhere at the top, don't expect that from the man on the touchlines with the way football has changed. Head coaches are exactly just that: employees looking to earn the right to taste that loyalty from above. The real longevity is in the vision that people ABOVE the head coach have when they build the team and hire other people working in the football department.
To reiterate my previous point, Ole has had 3 years to replace Carrick and McKenna with people who can bring strengths where Ole has weaknesses. His decision to keep everyone now bears consequences and that thing will only snowball onwards. When Gary Neville, Paul Scholes and Rio Ferdinand have raised questions in the media as they have done, you know that Ole is screwed. No amount of being a "good guy" can save him now.
Speaking of Zidane, he has been there and done that in a far more toxic environment than Manchester United. Unlike Moruino, he has not been broken psychologically by any stretch of the imagination. With the way he has always spoken with great respect about Manchester United without ever being part of the house, I say he looks more than a solid candidate post-Ole. He's probably the only manager available who commands respect to drive big egos towards the same direction and who is not likely to make a fuss with the board unless the CEO is a total a-hole like Fioerntino Perez is.
Ten Hag.
Yeah the new structure won’t kick in until Ole is gone. I mean Fletcher is happy to be there, I mean he’s there having a jolly up in training. His role is to keep an eye on what is happening at the training ground and to give feedback to the director as their eyes. How can you do that being all friendly with the lads joining in sessions. It’s not an apprenticeship.
I really think Woodward just couldn’t afford to sack another manager. But he will be gone soon, not sure I have a lot of faith in his replacement. But he will want to stamp his own authority and what’s the best way than hiring your own manager. If it goes well (which it will unless it’s Southgate), he’s off to a good start.
Think the board need to keep an eye on the Champions League and what manager impresses at that level - none of the appointments since 2013 have been a manager that recently impressed at the highest level. Ole will not be sacked anytime soon and there are no immediate obvious successors so best to see who gets sacked (Tuchel), sees out their contract (Klopp), or emerges (Nagelsmann).
Dude stop.
During Fergie later years, there were loads of complaints about how midfield and let's not try to pretend otherwise.
People use to moan about the likes of Cleverly, Anderson , Gibson, etc.
How midfield was our weakest link in SAF last year's, no need to rewrite history.
Are you serious????????
I think if we lose against Villareal the owners will begin discreetly sounding out possible replacements. If we start to sink in the PL after our run of tough games, we'll be ready for a switch at the tail end of that.
While I wish, Ole is held to high standard of challenging for PL and UCL given our squad, I think his job is safe as long as he makes it to top 4 and qualifies for UCL knock outs. I don't think we have owners who would fire a manager for not challenging for PL and UCL. While I so wish it were otherwise, unfortunately this is the ambition level for the owners, I feel.
While I wish, Ole is held to high standard of challenging for PL and UCL given our squad, I think his job is safe as long as he makes it to top 4 and qualifies for UCL knock outs. I don't think we have owners who would fire a manager for not challenging for PL and UCL. While I so wish it were otherwise, unfortunately this is the ambition level for the owners, I feel.
I think whoever takes a risk on him will reap the rewards,
I'd be lying if i said his appointment would fill me with confidence because you can't just be a good coach to manage a club like United where you are constantly under scrutiny, that type of pressure and having the personality and mentality is a whole different set of skills and for some it's just too much and with Potter who know's how he would react,
I can see him go to somewhere like Spurs though and do extremely well.
My issue is, in my mind I am pretty decided that Ole isn’t the man to take us to the next level, but I can’t really think of any other managers I want to replace him that would be available and the right fit.
Conte is a great manager, no doubt about it, but I’m not convinced that he’s the right character for the club.
Zidane doesn’t seem like he has an interest in coming to England but I guess he could be convinced.
Would have liked to see one of the German’s join us e.g Rose or Nanglesmann, but they have recently joined other clubs.
Conte is a great manager, no doubt about it, but I’m not convinced that he’s the right character for the club.
Zidane doesn’t seem like he has an interest in coming to England but I guess he could be convinced.
Would have liked to see one of the German’s join us e.g Rose or Nanglesmann, but they have recently joined other clubs.
Lots of assumptions here! I’m sceptical too, but we really have no idea whether that’s all Fletcher does. I’ve also got nothing against apprenticeships as long as the apprentice demonstrates that he’s actually learning.
Barring a total collapse (out of both CL and top 4) I’d be amazed if there was any change until the end of the season. Ole and the team have this amazing (infuriating if you’re a hardened Ole-outer
) ability to bounce back from misfortune.The prospect of that would be enough to turn me into a hardcore Ole-in cultist.
He would need a few. Certainly a goalkeeper who sticks to his goal line would need to go. Two attacking midfielders who don't really know how to press in Pogba and Bruno. And what about our 4 man rotating strike force of teenagers and old men? Not sure they would be very good at hunting in packs to win the ball back. Could be wrong.
Ole. Ole until the end of times.
Then Southgate.
Then Southgate.
We don't even have to make it out of our CL group. Utd managers are safe in their jobs as long as they keep qualifying for the CL. Participation in the CL keeps us relevant even if we aren't really challenging.
It's incredibly disappointing as we have a squad that could mount a challenge with the right coaching.
This season might be the exception. If we crash out of the group stages again, after being drawn into an easier group on paper, then the board may be forced to act. If we’re talking £££ then there isn’t much benefit of only qualifying and dropping into Europa every season. The owners I would suspect would want at least a QF appearance and we clearly have a squad capable of getting that far.
I want Ole to be a success and for us to be super successful under him.
If we don't qualify from this CL group though, the writing will be on the wall. We have to be realistic.
Only two managers I would want would be Rodgers or Pochettino. Rodgers has experience of managing a top team, putting in a title challenge and he has improved a lot since Liverpool IMO. Won the FA Cup with Leicester too, which is not to be sniffed at. I lean towards Rodgers.
If we don't qualify from this CL group though, the writing will be on the wall. We have to be realistic.
Only two managers I would want would be Rodgers or Pochettino. Rodgers has experience of managing a top team, putting in a title challenge and he has improved a lot since Liverpool IMO. Won the FA Cup with Leicester too, which is not to be sniffed at. I lean towards Rodgers.
My Sporting supporting buddy told me Ruben Amorim is real good and fresh.
Any Sporting followers can support that notion?
We got some great Portuguese players, all from Sporting.
Why not try a young and upcoming coach with new ideas?
The likes of Zidane seem better suited to take a group of superstars and mold them into a team... (PSG basically).
We need a coach that can build our young players.
Any Sporting followers can support that notion?
We got some great Portuguese players, all from Sporting.
Why not try a young and upcoming coach with new ideas?
The likes of Zidane seem better suited to take a group of superstars and mold them into a team... (PSG basically).
We need a coach that can build our young players.
I'd rather Graham Potter than Brendan Rodgers.
Potter is flexible with his tactics and is maybe the English equivalent to a German youngster hip manager that is the manager of Dortmund once in our life.
Would be a tough job for him though, partially due to our fan leniency can be very up and down.
Potter is flexible with his tactics and is maybe the English equivalent to a German youngster hip manager that is the manager of Dortmund once in our life.
Would be a tough job for him though, partially due to our fan leniency can be very up and down.
Get out
That's it. back to the old school. too many FM/FIFA generation obsessed with aesthetics nowadays
"The only way an English manager gets to the Premier League who hasn’t managed there before is get promoted. And that generally has been the trend. But Graham Potter was the exception.”
Last edited:
I really hope Ole gets us a trophy this year, I really like the guy and I wish him all the best. IF we do replace him then I hope it is someone refreshing like Ten Hag, I would be very dissapointed if Poch replaced Ole. I dont see what Poch brings to the table that Ole doesent.
Instead of replacing Ole maybe we should be replacing some of the coaches that are under him? Also maybe Ole needs someone who can help him out with the tactics? As it is right now we are very easy to plan against, same formation and almost the same players play every time.
Instead of replacing Ole maybe we should be replacing some of the coaches that are under him? Also maybe Ole needs someone who can help him out with the tactics? As it is right now we are very easy to plan against, same formation and almost the same players play every time.
Yeah, that's not unreasonable. I guess the one caveat is that the media pressure, particularly from former players, can become overwhelming to a point where the club may feel it has to act (or at least be prepared to act). I don't think we're there yet, but a loss against villareal will really move the dial I think.
Mancini would be my choice
Ståle Solbakken
Let's keep it Norwegian please
Let's keep it Norwegian please
I'd genuinely be happy with almost any of the suggestions here since I'd feel they'd all be an upgrade on Ole (except Southgate, who for me is just an English Ole).
Though if I were to rank them in preference I'd go Ten Hag > Zidane > Potter > Conte > anyone who isn't Southgate.
Though if I were to rank them in preference I'd go Ten Hag > Zidane > Potter > Conte > anyone who isn't Southgate.
Some excellent points, although I don't agree 100% with what you state.
Indeed, the club is in a far healthier position than before Ole, the academy looks like it might be producing some talented youngsters, albeit not many will come through to play regularly for United, many will go out on loan, and, hopefully, we will get a fee for them. The first team squad is looking quite strong, but yes, the coaching side definitely needs some new blood.
The whole coaching staff are vastly inexperienced, and would massively improve with an experienced coach, or two if you include a defensive one also.
On the comment about Potter, any manager/coach coming in will initially get some respect from the players, but ultimately, it's what he does on the training ground and during a match where he would get the full backing, and players buying into his ideas, or not.
I believe Potter would make a great manager, but everyone has their opinions, and I respect your opinion, after all, that's what forums like this are for.
It would be weird with his City past but I would 100% be for it. He's an excellent manager.
Then he's of the De Boer generation. Meanwhile Arteta worked with Pep as well. That certainly didn't work out didn't it?
The Dutch football had blessed us with some of the finest players football had ever seen. Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard and Cruyff are 4 players whose class is unparalleled to anything the EPL had ever seen apart from Ronaldo. Then there's of course the likes of Seedorf, Stam, RVN and RVP who were top top players. However those times are gone, the Dutch football is nowhere near to what it used to be, it lacks vision, it lacks class and quite frankly it lacks ideas. Which is why a football dinosaur like LVG or an average manager like Mclaren were able to waltze into sides such as AZ and Twente and win the title. I also find Dutch managers to be incredibly stubborn towards buying Dutch players. Koeman brought 2 Dutch players at Everton and another 2 at Barcelona, De Boer brought 2 Dutch players at Palace and LVG brought 2 Dutch players at United with Blind and Depay. Which suggest a lack of football knowledge outside of their bubble.
Chelsea/City would spend silly money to make their manager happy while Klopp fount a team that needed major surgery. We're not in that situation. The new manager will be replacing the club's darling which means that the heat will be on him from day 0. He will inherit have an excellent side including some fantastic kids coming up. On top of that he'll be working with an employee who would spend 60m-80m max per year. Therefore we need someone who comes in and improve on what Ole had done rather then start everything from scratch. Thus I believe that the new manager must play very similar football to what Ole had promised (and can't deliver), he must know our players well, he must understand the EPL and what Manchester United is all about
- Status