The video is ridiculous, but he does present a national security problem for the UK. He genuinely wants to leave NATO, which would present a threat to national security even with Trident. He wants to alienate the only superpower in the world and won't commit to a continued membership in the EU. If the EU were to collapse, which isn't likely but also isn't impossible, and the UK were out of NATO, it would present an additional national security problems as Europe fragmented back into nation-states without a common interest. It wouldn't be terribly surprising if he wanted to ally with Putin against the US/NATO because they've been ever so evil in accepting states into NATO that want to be protected from Russia.
next labour leader
- Thread starter sun_tzu
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The video is ridiculous, but he does present a national security problem for the UK. He genuinely wants to leave NATO, which would present a threat to national security even with Trident. He wants to alienate the only superpower in the world and won't commit to a continued membership in the EU. If the EU were to collapse, which isn't likely but also isn't impossible, and the UK were out of NATO, it would present an additional national security problems as Europe fragmented back into nation-states without a common interest. It wouldn't be terribly surprising if he wanted to ally with Putin against the US/NATO because they've been ever so evil in accepting states into NATO that want to be protected from Russia.
I'm kind of hoping to see Corbyn in it for the long haul due to the fact that I'm interested to see how insane and far-fetched the Tories warning videos about Corbyn eventually become. "A threat to our national security", is the starting point. I imagine we'll be at, "Corbyn sighted fighting for ISIS", or "Corbyn thinks Godfather III is the best one" by 2020 at this rate.
I mean it sincerely; he aligns and surrounds himself with people that want to end capitalism. If you have an education, a decent job and a mortgage then you would be suicidal to even think of voting for Labour in this state. If you have nothing then you might as well roll the dice!
I'm sure you do mean it sincerely but it's still disrespectful to the opposite point of view and you haven't exactly backed up your argument with any real points.
We're getting into make up whatever you want territory here.
Add to that, this line from on of the leadership hustings:
And given his sentiments on the matter, Argentina's designs on the Falklands would be all but assured under a Corbyn-led government.
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Well, he has blamed the US and NATO for accepting Eastern European members for causing Russia to invade Ukraine. He's suggested that the UK should be more amenable to Russia (whose intent is to break up the EU and reassert itself as a dominant power in Europe). Even RT has been, unsurprisingly, on the pro-Corbyn bandwagon with its overwhelmingly positive and numerous articles about him. Perhaps its because he espouses their pro-Russia/anti-Western editorial line or his long-standing presence as a commentator on RT. I'm not saying he wants to ally with Russia but his words and actions would not make it surprising.
Cristina certainly seems to think so.
Or more to the point: Corbyn would refuse to employ drones against known terrorists.
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I want quotes on this stuff because I think you're taking things he's said and twisting or exaggerating them.
Even as someone who finds a lot of the scaremongering about Corbyn to be ridiculous, I think his views on the Falklands are definitely quite dodgy. From what I gather, the island almost fully supports remaining as a British territory, and it'd be daft to reverse that when it's not in their interests.
On the drones point... good. About time we stopped bombing that part of the world at a whim. It hasn't helped us in the long-term from what I can see.
Being critical of NATO hardly puts you in bed with Putin.
His foreign policy stances seem retrospectively dignified, unless we've now decided that the Blairite/Tory neocon adventures in Iraq and Libya were a resounding success.
His foreign policy stances seem retrospectively dignified, unless we've now decided that the Blairite/Tory neocon adventures in Iraq and Libya were a resounding success.
From what I've heard he's a wee bit more sympathetic towards Putin than most others, and generally blames the West more than Russia for a lot of the current problems with Ukraine etc, but it's a massive stretch to go to that from Corbyn actually fully aligning himself with Putin against the US.
Well it wouldn't be far fetched to suggest that the West should shoulder some blame for escalating this Ukraine crisis.
Putin is who he is, but this archaic cold war mentality thats harboured by many establishment politicians has as usual been overblown. We now have our politicians warning us that diplomacy plays a bigger threat to our security than provoking the Russians and nuclear armament.
Thats the kind of doom-mongering rhetoric that wouldn't look out place in that embarrassing Tory video.
Being at all sympathetic to Putin is bizarre, for anyone that prizes democracy and pluralism as Jeremy Corbyn no doubt does. But there's a tension between that and the anti-western sentiment that's fashionable to his section of the party, enemy's enemy is my friend and all that. As usual a one-size-fits-all policy of no intervention anywhere is flawed, just as its opposite is. He'll talk about his justified opposition to the Iraq war, but probably won't mention his campaign against the intervention in Kosovo. He's as dogmatic as any neocon.
Has he actually been sympathetic towards Putin?
Wouldn't it?Rumoured that he's considering an invasion of Atlantis with Genghis Khan.
Here's his article talking about the Russian invasion of Ukraine being NATO and the US's fault. He even buys the Russian "neo-nazi" story line.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-972b-Nato-belligerence-endangers-us-all
Much of the rest of it is pro-BRICS cheerleading, but it's hardly surprising. I'm sure China is happy that it can now be paid in Rubles rather than dollars since the exchange rate has fallen from 35:$1 to 68:$1 or it can manipulate the yuan to suit it.
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Meanwhile in the real world, your caring, sharing Government - which is a genuine security threat to its people - drives some to this:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...er-news/ashton-job-centre-man-petrol-10038444
...and this:
http://www.welfareweekly.com/vulnerable-pensioner-set-fire-benefits-cut/
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...er-news/ashton-job-centre-man-petrol-10038444
...and this:
http://www.welfareweekly.com/vulnerable-pensioner-set-fire-benefits-cut/
C'mon Steve, I know I keep posting from angry local news, but this story is like the girl in Reading who got her finger stuck in the ringpull.
I must've missed that ringpull story, mate - I was probably out protesting about the evils of The Thatch and Douglas Haig.
Me, yesterday
Me, yesterday
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I can't belief there is actually a title called 'Welfare Weekly'. I know we saw those weird titles on have i got news for you back in the day, but this is something else. 'Whiplash Fraud Gazette', how to groan convincingly when stooping to pick up a penny.
That benefit people mag could our best chance of getting our sad/angry face challenge of the ground tbf. Will feel a hollow victory though in such an agenda led rag.
Nicked this from another forum but worth showing.
Here's what Corbyn and Cameron were both doing in the 80's.
Here's what Corbyn and Cameron were both doing in the 80's.
Probably a good thing. It'd spare him the embarrassment of having to spin it into a "self defence" argument like Cameron did recently. I also doubt Corbyn would have a "kill list" on the issue too, another good thing.
I have no issue with terrorist filth getting what's coming to them but it leaves me a little uneasy when the government can just decide to murder folk and then scream "self defence!!! national security!!!" and it's simply left at that.
Shouldnt this thread be changed to Jeremy Corbyn Labour leader or is there another thread?
We should make one. It's time for a real alternative to the "next Labour leader" thread, as opposed to the "next Labour leader-lite" thread we have at the moment.
Whilst i can understand those concerns, drones are likely to be the least of our problems should a future government be so inclined as to turn on the citizenry free of consequence. The tools (UAVs in this case) are out there and won't be going away, do we shy away from what productive use they might have for fear of humanity's weakness?
Like as not, the security services have felt it necessary to carry out such killings over the years, the difference here is that Cameron went public. Certainly we should attempt to institute some form of oversight, but to the extent to which its work can be made known to the average person on the street isn't going to satisfy all.
Cameron's previous effort to garner parliamentary support for Syrian intervention was rightly defeated, if the Government has learnt the lesson of that failure, any repeat must include a coherent strategy as opposed to a mere reaction to events. There was cross-party opposition back in 2013, and there will be so again if MPs suspect that this is being proposed on a whim as @Shamwow's put it.
All going well then! “We are taking a fair amount of shit out there about women."
“We need to do a Mandelson. Let’s make Angela shadow first minister of state. Like Mandelson was. She can cover PMQs. Tom (Watson) knows about this. Do the Angela bit now.”
At 12.19 am Labour headquarters sent out a second email, confirming that Eagle was to be shadow first minister of state. She would deputise at prime minister’s questions.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...its-not-been-the-best-start-for-jeremy-corbyn
I read that Lucy Powell, the Shadow Education Secretary had never met or even spoken to Corbyn. Odd way to build a trusted team of colleagues.
Pmq's will be interesting
I expect corbyn will at least ask the questions this week
Strike laws
Refugee crisis / migrant swarm
Syrian drone strike
Wonder what he will go with?... Of course he won't get anything other than Trident, Ira, hamas, and party jibes thrown back
Sadly I expect it to show the very worst of the commons - yah boo punch and Judy turned up to 11
I expect corbyn will at least ask the questions this week
Strike laws
Refugee crisis / migrant swarm
Syrian drone strike
Wonder what he will go with?... Of course he won't get anything other than Trident, Ira, hamas, and party jibes thrown back
Sadly I expect it to show the very worst of the commons - yah boo punch and Judy turned up to 11
I suspect Cameron got the Labour leader he wanted all along so he'll be sure to give Corbyn a warm welcome.
He may get a bigger round of applause from the conservatives than from his own mp's
I don't really understand the bellyaching about Europe. It's clearly not perfect and needs to change, Labour MPs are out of touch with public opinion to both the left and right if they disagree.
As much as I'm pro-Europe as a concept it's not a black and white issue so it's stupid to go out and say 'the EU is all bad and we should pull out regardless' or 'the EU is all good we should stay in regardless'. Both of those are ridiculous statements and I think the public, if not the political class, are well aware of that.
If Cameron or Corbyn went into talks with the EU having publically said 'We demand change but we'll stay regardless', why on earth would the EU be inclined give any significant concession? For a PLP obsessed with being pro-business Labour's MPs seem to have no understanding of bargaining power.
As much as I'm pro-Europe as a concept it's not a black and white issue so it's stupid to go out and say 'the EU is all bad and we should pull out regardless' or 'the EU is all good we should stay in regardless'. Both of those are ridiculous statements and I think the public, if not the political class, are well aware of that.
If Cameron or Corbyn went into talks with the EU having publically said 'We demand change but we'll stay regardless', why on earth would the EU be inclined give any significant concession? For a PLP obsessed with being pro-business Labour's MPs seem to have no understanding of bargaining power.
Of course it's not ridiculous to say we should stay in with the current arrangement, either we think we're benefiting from it or we don't. The vast majority of Labour MPs think we are, so are hardly going to want to leave regardless of the renegotiation.
I mean in terms of bargaining power - I imagine Corbyn and Labour will vote to stay in regardless, but that's no reason they shouldn't try to improve things