Next five matches: can we turn it around?

We can, but I want more than results now. Ten Hag is about 18 months into the job. Last season, I think it's safe to say he did brilliantly.

This season was about progressing and stamping down an actual style of play. He mentioned that he wanted us to become the best transition side in the world. Last season, we were up there. I can't find the stats to back up my sayings, but I'm pretty sure we were second in transition goals last season after Madrid. Could be totally wrong, though. But anyway....we had a glimpse as to how ten Hag wants us to play, and he made it clear this season.

The additions in the summer, especially Mount and Hojlund, confirmed to us where ten Hag wants to go and how he wants to play. Players who were extremely good at pressing, thus we could counter press, as well as being fast on the break. Again, stats go in ten Hag's favour, as statistically in the league, we've won the possession back (71) the final third the most, we're second in winning the ball back in the middle third (232) and have made the most turnovers (104).As said, this confirms how ten Hag is playing.

Unfortunately, we've been let down by injuries, as well as the individual form of players/decision making. For example, I think I counted 3 times we won the ball against City in the final third in the first half, and had opportunities to score in every situation. Given the right decision, we'd have scored, but we've just not been ruthless in the final third, and other than Bruno, we struggle to create chances.

I get what ten Hag is trying to do, especially from an off the ball perspective. It's risky, because if the opposition beats the press, then they're running at our back four, as we saw yesterday. However, he needs to find a way of creating more chances. Maybe we stop the full press, and go back to being a counter attacking side, as we struggle to recover when our press is beaten. Something needs to change, and I'm hoping he can find a way.
 
Nope....it's hard to see what changes in that time. Luton we should win. Others I can't see anything but poor and disappointing performances
 
The biggest problem with our team at the moment is Erik is trying to get them to play a way they simply arnt cut out for, the squad doesnt have the players needed for playing this tactical transitions and triangles stuff so It will never work.

Looking at our squad and attacking options what we need to be doing is setting up to play fast counter attacking football utilising the pace of our front players, use Casemiro and Amrabat together as DMs then let them sit back and defend in numbers to make it hard for the opposition then when we have got the ball get it to the attack as quickly as possible with Bruno or Mount in the middle operating as link between defence and the front 3, this fast attack would make Rashford and Antony more effective as they will have much more space to cut inside for a shot or pass to Hojlund which in turn should result in more goals being scored.
 
TMDaines said:
Our next five matches are:
  • Fulham (A)
  • FC Copenhagen (A)
  • Luton Town (H)
    • International Break
  • Everton (A)
  • Galastasary (A)
This is a kind fixture run on paper, but leaves the manager and players absolutely nowhere to hide if the last remaining wheels fall off the clown car. There's no Aston Villa here, no Brighton, no Newcastle, no teams we would want to beat ordinarily but have to really respect on the pitch right now. These are five matches that United have zero excuses to not be odds on for and not to be winning the majority of the time.

Give us your predictions:
  • How many points are we getting?
  • Is ETH still manager by the time we play Newcastle United away on the 2nd December?
I'm reluctantantly going for 6 points and a no. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
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Anything less than 10 points would be poor. I’m going with 7.
 
we aren't even making chances let alone putting them away. We could have prime RVP up there at the moment it wouldn't matter because he'd never see the ball.
 
Jimble said:
we aren't even making chances let alone putting them away. We could have prime RVP up there at the moment it wouldn't matter because he'd never see the ball.
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We created sod all yesterday outside of Bruno who should score but we do normally create big chances. Copenhagen and City we had 3 one on ones where we proceeded to not even manage to have a shot. It was impressive.
 
Genuine question for the Ten Hag out fans -

  • Fulham (A)
  • FC Copenhagen (A)
  • Luton Town (H)
    • International Break
  • Everton (A)
  • Galastasary (A)

^ If he won all of that (fat chance, I know), where would you sit then. I'd assume still Ten Hag out or maybe starting to feel like he might be turning the ship but needing more convincing.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
The biggest problem with our team at the moment is Erik is trying to get them to play a way they simply arnt cut out for, the squad doesnt have the players needed for playing this tactical transitions and triangles stuff so It will never work.
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This is a bit of a fallacy. Bielsa had a bunch of journeymen and kids playing some of the best football in the Championship, then in the PL in their first season. Potter had Brighton cut-price lower league and small-european league recruits playing passing triangles and creating chances (just lacking an out and out finisher who could fit into that system). Poch's Tottenham side wasn't necessarily full of silky players or established names, and they played more fluent football starting in his first few months, until they reached the end of the cycle.

It's at least 50% motivation, developing intensity/resilience and a 'plan' in terms of developing understandings, coaching patterns and then setting them out in a shape 'in-game in order to execute that, even if there are external factors. They're overpaid and overhyped in many cases, but even the weakest or less naturally 'football smart' of them can learn a few tricks, for instance the two or three runs to make when a player is in a particular position near the edge of the box ;likewise the player in possession can learn what kind of movement to look for.
 
next_number_seven said:
Qualifying in the CL group would give him a lifeline.
If we don't, I think his time might be up.

But this depends on who's available to replace him really.

Emery would be a good replacement
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He wouldn't leave Villa for us at this time.
 
VP89 said:
Genuine question for the Ten Hag out fans -

  • Fulham (A)
  • FC Copenhagen (A)
  • Luton Town (H)
    • International Break
  • Everton (A)
  • Galastasary (A)

^ If he won all of that (fat chance, I know), where would you sit then. I'd assume still Ten Hag out or maybe starting to feel like he might be turning the ship but needing more convincing.
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We need to see tangible performances. Results mean nothing at this point. The season is over.
 
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  • Fulham (A) - Could see us scrapping a draw here
  • FC Copenhagen (A) - Think we'll actually win this
  • Luton Town (H) - We'll win this but make it harder than it needs to be
  • Everton (A) - Most likely losing this
  • Galastasary (A) - For sure losing this
 
Baxquux said:
This is a bit of a fallacy. Bielsa had a bunch of journeymen and kids playing some of the best football in the Championship, then in the PL in their first season. Potter had Brighton cut-price lower league and small-european league recruits playing passing triangles and creating chances (just lacking an out and out finisher who could fit into that system). Poch's Tottenham side wasn't necessarily full of silky players or established names, and they played more fluent football starting in his first few months, until they reached the end of the cycle.

It's at least 50% motivation, developing intensity/resilience and a 'plan' in terms of developing understandings, coaching patterns and then setting them out in a shape 'in-game in order to execute that, even if there are external factors. They're overpaid and overhyped in many cases, but even the weakest or less naturally 'football smart' of them can learn a few tricks, for instance the two or three runs to make when a player is in a particular position near the edge of the box ;likewise the player in possession can learn what kind of movement to look for.
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It simply dosnt work with our team as we dont have the players for it and the ones we do have refuse to adapt, Ralf Rangnick tried to implent a gegenpress but it lasted about 45 minutes as the players gave up and switched to just doing their own thing
 
RedRocket9908 said:
It simply dosnt work with our team as we dont have the players for it and the ones we do have refuse to adapt, Ralf Rangnick tried to implent a gegenpress but it lasted about 45 minutes as the players gave up and switched to just doing their own thing
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At PL level, so long as your side has a certain base level of physicality and some mobility (not a team of DVDBs), you can get players to perform any kind of style up to a certain level. It 's not necessarily going to be Pep or even Klopp standard, given coaching and shape of the squad, but you can introduce base play. It just takes conviction and being backed specifically to cast players out and, if necessary, to counter brief against them if they stat causing crap through the media via intermediaries) if they're not buying into it.

Some of that is structural, but a manager who knows what he's doing , has ideological conviction in the style, and doesn't need to be in the comfort zone of, say, the ajax system, someone like Bielsa, would probably give it a decent shot. The payers and manager have conspired to cast the wool over people's eyes regarding their ability and right to stay at the club. The truth is, they're both not that great and , nevertheless, they're also capable of playing a specific style if they're not indulged and have no-one defending them against being made to work hard and be left out of the team if they don't follow instructions.
 
I hope this seasons performances and this last week especially has ETH and all the coaches working overtime to stop the rot.

At least make us harder to play against that would be a start.Bad runs like good runs come to an end eventually, I accept even if we win these next few games won't suddenly make us a great team again but it'll lift some of the gloom.
 
We will win 5 out of 5 and re-gain some much needed confidence and momentum!

Come on United!

No white text here ladies and gentleman.

P.S. We need more optimists like me on the forum. @Mods - please promote me. Humble request
 
Fulham away might be a slog, but if we're not winning the rest of them we're in real trouble
 
We play like a bottom of the table team, so we'll get bottom of the table results. 1W, 1D, 3L.
 
No, we can not turn it around. The team is clueless tactically and completely shot on confidence.

I'm guessing we are going to win two of them, at least one of which will be a really narrow and/or late win. They we will probably lose two of the away games, and maybe draw one.
 
We can, and obviously I hope we do.

I'm more focused on the league than I am the CL, and the 3 matches in that competition are not the hardest a team could face. It gives us a chance. It has to be more than that though.

It's all very well getting 7 or 9 points from 3 matches against weaker opposition in the league but it needs to springboard us forwards with confidence into better results against some of the stronger teams too ultimately. Newcastle away after those will be tough, then Chelsea home (not exactly great right now), Bournemouth (H), and Liverpool (A).

I'd predict us losing at Newcastle and Liverpool the way things are, not exactly a bold prediction is it? Makes the two away games at Fulham and Everton huge, plus the Chelsea home one.
 
Luton is the only game I can see us getting a result from but They will probably 3-0 us. but if in the event we do win any of the games the "we are back" PR and dressing room leaks will pause for A moment just to give us a glimmer of hope
 
Hard to see where the next win will come from nevermind turning things around. One of the easiest teams to score against including gifting goals to the opposition and aren't clinical at the other end of the field.
 
Despite our poor away record, some time apart from Old Trafford might not be the worst thing in the world right now.

Shaw can't be too far from a recovery, surely? I seem to remember a November timeframe, but I might be imagining it.

I don't know what is going on with Varane. Injured, then benched for tactics(!), then ill is what we've been told of course, but with how things are at the club it wouldn't surprise me if it was something else entirely. Nevertheless, if he can come back in that's something. Obviously we have Wan-Bissaka looking ready to hit the ground running too.

We've now got all of our midfielders back I think, so hopefully we stumble onto a combination that works to go infront of 75% of our preferred backline and away we go.
 
Is winning against these teams considered turning things around?
 
We couldn't ask for a better run of games to turn it around, but it appears to be close to the stage it was at during the Jose and Ole tenures just before they got sacked.

Once these players stop laying a glove on their opponents, they never recover until they get a new manager.
 
Based on how we’ve played in pretty much every game this season, 2 wins and a draw from those games would be optimistic.
 
No.

The only way this changes is through some massive player revolt against ETH. They aren't feeling his way and he is a very stubborn man. Every team will see Man utd as a possible win right now. Shame to say, but it's the truth.

Someone needs to do something.
 
Can we, yes.
Will we, probably not.

At the moment, it seems like players no longer enjoy playing for ETH, fair or not.
 
Big chance to pick up points from the teams around us, the battle for a top half finish is on
 
TMDaines said:
Our next five matches are:
  • Fulham (A)
  • FC Copenhagen (A)
  • Luton Town (H)
    • International Break
  • Everton (A)
  • Galastasary (A)
This is a kind fixture run on paper, but leaves the manager and players absolutely nowhere to hide if the last remaining wheels fall off the clown car. There's no Aston Villa here, no Brighton, no Newcastle, no teams we would want to beat ordinarily but have to really respect on the pitch right now. These are five matches that United have zero excuses to not be odds on for and not to be winning the majority of the time.

Give us your predictions:
  • How many points are we getting?
  • Is ETH still manager by the time we play Newcastle United away on the 2nd December?
I'm reluctantantly going for 6 points and a no. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
Click to expand...
I think the players are just lost out there and crumble when we go down, I don't think they have given up. As they haven't given up I feel we will grind out results against Fulham, Copenhagen and Luton Town. We will draw against Everton but I don't see us winning in Turkey, the players don't seem to have the mettle for it.
 
If the players have really stopped playing for him, they will lose against Fulham and play OKish in the CL games. The best chance we got for Champions League football next season is to win the EL anyways, so thats a dilemma
 
Might get a goal v Luton at home.

That's about it
 
We have hardly played a decent game all season , apart from maybe one game all our wins have been scrappy and fortunate wins against some poor teams.

This run of bad form has gone on so long now since the Carabao Cup final can we even call it 'form' , how long does a run of bad form have to go on before you realize that it is not form , just a very average group of players playing at their level.
 
Why do you want us to win some games against absolute dross like Luton and Everton? It just papers over cracks until we meet Liverpool etc.

We need to finish as low as possible this season.
 
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