Nexlions Cup

It looked like the heat had as much to do with the loss as they did. First half was pretty even, despite us not playing our very best. But we looked completely exhausted by 50 minutes really.
 
A newbie who watched the game:

It was a torrid game. Sporting outplayed us in every way. We were leading by a goal at half time and still lost. No formation, no composure. Well deserved loss.
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If this is the normal game, the coach should be sacked. no formation whatsoever. No.11 played brilliant, got to find who that is. Only guy who played. No off the ball movement. It was pathetic.
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Was about to say there's a lot of shit on here from people who haven't watched enough of this U18s side to know how inconsequential that performance is to their progress and their reputation. But this

If this is the normal game, the coach should be sacked. no formation whatsoever. No.11 played brilliant, got to find who that is. Only guy who played. No off the ball movement. It was pathetic.
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is just something else. Why post such a strong opinion whilst also advertising that you don't have a fecking clue what you're talking about.
 
Do you guys think we should participate in that Nexgen cup ?

I thought it was a really good learning experience for us playing against Sporting who really have that continental approach to football that you don't see with English teams. It helps to bring different perspectives to football as a kid and should help them mature better.
 
Tooni said:
Do you guys think we should participate in that Nexgen cup ?

I thought it was a really good learning experience for us playing against Sporting who really have that continental approach to football that you don't see with English teams. It helps to bring different perspectives to football as a kid and should help them mature better.
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Aren't the kids in enough competitions like this already?
 
I don't think it's valid to label all critics as idiots who obviously 'don't watch enough of the U18s'. The facts are, they often look very good in their League, but then if when they step outside of that League, they look miles below the standard, what does that prove?

Fact is, this is a team that wen't out in their first game, at home, in the FA Youth Cup last week, then just got spanked by Sporting. Don't think they have proven enough for any questioners of their ability to be so emphatically dismissed.

For the record, I love watching this team, they are probably the best footballing United side at the moment at all levels. I rate several of those individuals highly, but then this is always the case, and nobody makes it. The bar is really high, and if the Sporting kids are levels above, then as we have seen, it will likely be a Sporting kid playing for the United first team in 5 years not a current United one.

This tournament is a good level to test how good they really are I think. Although I guess it's in a fans nature to write it off as 'meaningless' when it doesn't go well and further evidence if it does.
 
People do go way overboard with this u18 group. I've heard people saying that the u21s should try to playmmore like them, but I don't think people realise how low the u18 level is and how much of a step up it is to u21s. A lot of these players won't make that step up successfully.
 
I was at the match. United played like what you expect an U18 team to play.

Sporting on the other hand looked really good for their age -- great close control, caressed the ball like it was a set of tits, great running off the ball. They had a couple of players worth looking at -- a big young Vieira like central midfielder player and the tricky little player up front. Really enjoyed their movement off the ball.

United players seemed to struggle with their ball control, possibly the artificial turf has a different bounce. A couple lacked composure but then again, they are 17 y.o after all.
 
All games at this level are 'meaningless'. It's about trying to win, but when you don't win analysing why you didn't and working to improve for the future.

It's not as simple as "Sporting were better hurr durr they'll be better in 5 years time" ffs. The question is why were they better?

We have many players who are at a similar level to theirs technically (as well as quite a few eligible ones who weren't brought), but theirs were obviously more physically developed. I'd guess their average height was a few inches taller, they were more muscular and quicker in most positions. (Both centrebacks of ours were less than 6 foot, they had at least 5 players 6 foot or taller-probably only Barmby and Wilson are close)

As our players mature physically the gap there will narrow and other traits will come through. Getting ragdolled as a youngster can be character forming, I imagine.
 
I think teams should seek out the best competition, I don't see the benefit in 'protecting' teams from this experience. I've certainly heard coaches in other sports talk about how important losses to better teams are in learning the skills it takes to win at the top.
 
I'll not be surprised if our under 18s lose to Singapore tomorrow. Some of the Singapore players have experience playing first team football regularly, albiet at a much lower standard.

Edit: People are reading too much into the results, you've to take into account that the players didn't really have much time to get used to the weather and the pitch. Your warmest day in Manchester is close to the average day in Singapore. And I'm pretty sure we've the youngest squad amongst all 4 teams taking part in this.
 
Drainy said:
All games at this level are 'meaningless'. It's about trying to win, but when you don't win analysing why you didn't and working to improve for the future.

It's not as simple as "Sporting were better hurr durr they'll be better in 5 years time" ffs. The question is why were they better?

We have many players who are at a similar level to theirs technically (as well as quite a few eligible ones who weren't brought), but theirs were obviously more physically developed. I'd guess their average height was a few inches taller, they were more muscular and quicker in most positions. (Both centrebacks of ours were less than 6 foot, they had at least 5 players 6 foot or taller-probably only Barmby and Wilson are close)

As our players mature physically the gap there will narrow and other traits will come through. Getting ragdolled as a youngster can be character forming, I imagine.
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That is true. Wasn't trying to lay into them. That said, it's shouldn't be suggested we can't say 'these kids are better than those kids' simply because they are 18. We have some great technical players, just then when you pop your head out of our league (or even within), you realise that so do other teams.

I didn't see the Sporting match I will admit, although I suspect that they were not a bunch of brutes with no ability either. My guess would be that some of their youngsters could probably make a reasonable case for simply being better at football than a few of ours too.

I love the likes of Januzaj and Daehli, they are talented 18-odd year olds, but it is hard to assess JUST how talented, especially against the other 18 year olds for other top clubs. The League isn't a full refelection. The likes of Pereira and Daehli have been the best player at youth international tournaments too I believe, and that is the sort of stuff that really makes you sit up and take notice.
 
Drainy said:
All games at this level are 'meaningless'. It's about trying to win, but when you don't win analysing why you didn't and working to improve for the future.

It's not as simple as "Sporting were better hurr durr they'll be better in 5 years time" ffs. The question is why were they better?

We have many players who are at a similar level to theirs technically (as well as quite a few eligible ones who weren't brought), but theirs were obviously more physically developed. I'd guess their average height was a few inches taller, they were more muscular and quicker in most positions. (Both centrebacks of ours were less than 6 foot, they had at least 5 players 6 foot or taller-probably only Barmby and Wilson are close)

As our players mature physically the gap there will narrow and other traits will come through. Getting ragdolled as a youngster can be character forming, I imagine.
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That is true. Wasn't trying to lay into them. That said, it's shouldn't be suggested we can't say 'these kids are better than those kids' simply because they are 18. We have some great technical players, just then when you pop your head out of our league (or even within), you realise that so do other teams.

I didn't see the Sporting match I will admit, although I suspect that they were not a bunch of brutes with no ability either. My guess would be that some of their youngsters could probably make a reasonable case for simply being better at football than a few of ours too.

I love the likes of Januzaj and Daehli, they are talented 18-odd year olds, but it is hard to assess just how talented, especially against the other 18 year olds for other top clubs. The League isn't a full refelection. The likes of Pereira and Daehli have been the best player at youth international tournaments too I believe, and that is the sort of stuff that really makes you sit up and take notice.
 
I didn't say they were brutes with no ability. In fact I praised their technical level. They aren't anywhere near 'levels above' our lads either. The game was competitive in the first half, with them having more of the ball but in terms of creativity it was even. In the second half the heat sapped all the strength out of our team and they pulled away from us.

It was never about the footballing levels of the team, only the physicality and fitness/acclimatisation differences.

Also Januzaj and Pereira weren't there. Januzaj and Daelhi aren't 18 yet either.
 
Rozay said:
I don't think it's valid to label all critics as idiots who obviously 'don't watch enough of the U18s'. The facts are, they often look very good in their League, but then if when they step outside of that League, they look miles below the standard, what does that prove?
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Well, nothing? This is one game in unusual conditions against a good (and a little older) side (they were in no way 'miles below the standard' either).They've performed creditably in all sorts of tournaments in the past, just as they've had their setbacks in others.

There's nothing wrong with criticism as long as it's constructive, and people who patently haven't seen very much of this side and these players (and who even admit as much) slating them and throwing around terms like 'humiliating/pathetic' and calling for the coach to be sacked clearly aren't being remotely constructive.
 
Plato said:
Aren't the kids in enough competitions like this already?
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Like ?

I can only recall this game that our kids have played in where as Sporting have played 6 games in Nexgen with 2 each against Villa, Celtic and PSV and if you go back till later part of last year then they've played against Inter, Liverpool, Molde and Wolfsburg.

I don't think it's true that their kids are technically superior specially compared with the current bunch we have right now but what they had is far more maturity to their game. That only comes with experience of playing with different teams of different styles. Even after going a goal down they had the maturity to keep the ball, pass it around calmly till there was really an opening compared to us just rushing on everything and lacking that calmness. They had far more maturity to the game which I can only attribute to them having played more of these kind of games.

Also, I don't buy that excuse of our kids being smaller/not physical etc. The best player on pitch quite clearly was that kid Mane who played as a lone striker despite being one of the shortest and puniest guy on the pitch.
 
Tooni said:
Like ?

I can only recall this game that our kids have played in where as Sporting have played 6 games in Nexgen with 2 each against Villa, Celtic and PSV and if you go back till later part of last year then they've played against Inter, Liverpool, Molde and Wolfsburg.

I don't think it's true that their kids are technically superior specially compared with the current bunch we have right now but what they had is far more maturity to their game. That only comes with experience of playing with different teams of different styles. Even after going a goal down they had the maturity to keep the ball, pass it around calmly till there was really an opening compared to us just rushing on everything and lacking that calmness. They had far more maturity to the game which I can only attribute to them having played more of these kind of games.

Also, I don't buy that excuse of our kids being smaller/not physical etc. The best player on pitch quite clearly was that kid Mane who played as a lone striker despite being one of the shortest and puniest guy on the pitch.
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Sporting is probably one of the best teams in the world in developing young talents - I think everyone knew we would struggle against them as we have a fairly small team and have to rely on out-playing our opponents rather than out-muscle them
 
Come on lads. This is u18 football, we are not focussing on the results. The important thing is development..
 
lysglimt said:
Sporting is probably one of the best teams in the world in developing young talents - I think everyone knew we would struggle against them as we have a fairly small team and have to rely on out-playing our opponents rather than out-muscle them
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I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. I don't deny that Sporting have a very good youth set up and I never expected us to out-muscle them or anything neither do I care much about results at this level.

My point is, we should be playing teams like Sporting more regularly(by participating in competitions like Nexgen) as it'll be a good learning experience for our kids as shown in this tournament.
 
The MOST important thing is development - but some people here tend to think that results don't matter. Creating a winning culture is always important - because if these guys want a small chance of suceedng at our club, they have to learn that winning is the only thing that matters.
 
Gollini, Love, Rowley, Grimshaw (C), Dalley, Pearson, Weir, Rothwell, Barmby, Gorre, Byrne.
 
We're dominating the play atm. Not much happening in the final 3rd though.
 
Clearly a difference in class between the sides but we're starting to tire. Should be an interesting second half.
 
Who's that melting Scouser doing the HT analysis? In the build up to the first game he described Jack Barmby as tiny, like his dad. Gotta admire his professionalism.
 
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