It was built in the early 1900s, and has been such an integral part of our history. It was bombed and rebuilt in the second world war, it has been redesigned, reimagined and adapted for well over a century. If it's possible to redevelop it, then I think we absolutely should be doing that, there's a lot of history there.
New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium
- Thread starter Ian Reus
- Start date
The club has all that land. Apart from hotel football.
That is insane. I didnt know that.
As was Bayern's Olympic Stadium. I bet no Bayern fan misses that place.
Wouldn't rebuilding Old Trafford be a new stadium? What’s the difference between the two options?
Or do you mean a new stadium somewhere different?
Or do you mean a new stadium somewhere different?
Haven't we already done 70 pages of this exact same discussion here? https://www.redcafe.net/threads/old...and-rebuilt-according-to-glazer-plans.469377/
Eh?
It was built for the 1972 Olympics. The problem with it wasn’t that it was old, but that it wasn’t designed to be a dedicated football ground. West Ham‘s current ground has the same issues.
Too
If that’s true (is it?) then the Glazers own the freight terminal. Presumably it’s on a very long lease that can’t be easily cancelled.
Relocating the freight terminal would cost more than a new ground.
Yes,
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/property/united-scoring-in-property-market-918142
The thing is, United have been buying up the land all around since the Glazers came on for "strategic reasons around the stadium" but they've not done anything.
I would suspect any lease would be easily fit around in the contracts if the plan was to always use it
Ah! Thanks for that.
So they have taken a lease on the freight terminal in order to run it as a freight terminal, and not to build a football ground on it? That’s fair enough.
Anyone who thinks that part of the land is available for a stadium is sadly deluded. Just stand on the through platforms at Piccadilly station and watch the number of massive container trains that trundle through all day.
Ironically you can thank the Glazer's for it, they're the ones who bought it
They'd never get planning permission to do it but with the right design there's enough room in the space that's available
It's a bit of a moot point at this stage. The Glazes and Ratcliffe are not funding a new stadium, redevelopment of OT is what we will get.
If we're lucky.
Not really.
Where did you get that? This was back in 2011.
"This is not an investment portfolio. Properties have been acquired at different times for strategic reasons looking into the future. We have no specific plans for these sites at the moment but our owners feel it is prudent to prepare for the future when they might be needed for sports-related development. Some people might think that Manchester United is just dabbling in property, but it's all part of a strategic plan for the stadium. Look at the changes there have been at Old Trafford over the last 10 years. We'd like to think there will be more changes. It is not our intention to stand still."
The current site is 24 acres. Think the club own another 40 acres around the current site.
United supporter since 1977 that thinks the statues of Busby, Ferguson, Murphy (which has only just gone up) and the Trinity should be torn down and who seems to think Old Trafford is called Old Trafford because it's old. You seem completely legit mate.
200 percent legit pal, just like the seat I had in the old Stretford seats at the top of the old Stretford end in the 70s and 80s, yes we have a rich heritage but sometimes we have to stop living in the past and maybe knock things down to build things back up as a certain legend recently commented.
My bad, i thought it was way older.
Redeveloping Old Trafford seems to be the most desired option and I get it, its iconic and has that aura about it, but I can't help but feel the option could be a bit of a hinderance further down the track. The design and placement of OT would make it difficult to modernise & expand (especially the Sir Bobby Charlton Stand) Even if were to increase the capacity we may end up in the same position 20 years further down the road when we look to redevelop again.
I look at what Liverpool are doing with Anfield and can't help but feel they missed a trick and should have just built a new stadium.
You can also look at what Marseille did, essentially putting a new shiny roof over the existing structure. (aesthetically pleasing but not a true redevelopment or modernisation)
Bayern's Allianz Arena is a good reference point. It has a comparable capacity to OT but is modern and the fans are still close to the pitch unlike a lot of modern stadiums. The modern design makes it easier to make changes/expand from an engineering point of view. Another more recent example would be Spurs, I feel they have the best stadium in the country.
Ultimately the guts of OT also need modernising and not just the stands, roof etc. If they do decide to redevelop i'd love to by a fly on the wall to see some of the new proposals as they are pitched.
I look at what Liverpool are doing with Anfield and can't help but feel they missed a trick and should have just built a new stadium.
You can also look at what Marseille did, essentially putting a new shiny roof over the existing structure. (aesthetically pleasing but not a true redevelopment or modernisation)
Bayern's Allianz Arena is a good reference point. It has a comparable capacity to OT but is modern and the fans are still close to the pitch unlike a lot of modern stadiums. The modern design makes it easier to make changes/expand from an engineering point of view. Another more recent example would be Spurs, I feel they have the best stadium in the country.
Ultimately the guts of OT also need modernising and not just the stands, roof etc. If they do decide to redevelop i'd love to by a fly on the wall to see some of the new proposals as they are pitched.
Who really cares about fancy concourses and ‘pre match fan zones’.
you go to watch a match of football, show your ticket, goto your seat, support the team, job done.
I’d be dead against a new stadium, Old Trafford is Manchester United and has too much history. Just fix it up a bit and upgrade the hotdogs
you go to watch a match of football, show your ticket, goto your seat, support the team, job done.
I’d be dead against a new stadium, Old Trafford is Manchester United and has too much history. Just fix it up a bit and upgrade the hotdogs
We do, yeah. But other people want more, and owners want people spending more time at the ground so they will spend more money there. They want a modern experience to be available for those who want it. A new stadium isn't for traditionalists the likes of me and you.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the subject will be able to point out flaws in this idea, but would it be a viable option to knock down the upper tiers and rebuild new upper tiers all the way around the stadium, add a new roof, upgrade the lower tiers and build a new facade to the stadium. I'm sure the first thing people will say is that would probably cost as much as building a new stadium. But if OT was like a brand new stadium after the work was completed, then I don't see the issue. And I'd assume it might cost a bit less with the lower tiers structures already in place. It might even be possible to do the work while OT would remain open with limited capacity (similar to Real Madrid). Also if all the upper tiers were to be designed and rebuilt, it might be easier to do the South stand upper while keeping a visual consistency with the other upper tiers (maybe a steeper angle/easier to build out over the rail/all corporate boxes placed in that part of the stadium).
Or could turn up early, have a beer with your mates, sing some songs with other fans, get a bit rowdy and ready to support your team and after the game you can still have a beer with your mates and celebrate with other fans.
At the moment it's, maybe try and get into the blaize or other pubs or have a few tinnies from the offies, turn up and feck off.
Fair point, I miss the days of sam platts tbh
No thanks. Just give it massive upgrades. So much history at OT. Don’t want to move.
I’m the one that’s way older. I can remember an article in a colour supplement (Observer probably) with artists’ impressions of what it would look like when it was finished…
Virtually every club, in every sport with their own stadium find themselves in the same position every 20-30 years.
If we built a brand spanking new stadium next year in 20-30 years from now there would be a conversation beginning about demolishing it or renovating it. Stadiums only have a certain lifespan.
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Which is why Old Trafford has already been completely rebuilt (though not all at once) two or three times in my lifetime.
Stay at Old Trafford at all costs and upgrade it to be the best version it can be.
Every 'state of the art' stadium soon becomes outdated within 5-10 years when it gets surpassed by the next best state of the stadium.
We are incredibly lucky to be able to play in the same stadium for over 100 years and have the opportunity to upgrade and expand the capacity to 90,000 seats. There's not a single fan in this country who would swap such incredible history for a soulless 'toilet seat' bowl stadium named after an airline.
Every 'state of the art' stadium soon becomes outdated within 5-10 years when it gets surpassed by the next best state of the stadium.
We are incredibly lucky to be able to play in the same stadium for over 100 years and have the opportunity to upgrade and expand the capacity to 90,000 seats. There's not a single fan in this country who would swap such incredible history for a soulless 'toilet seat' bowl stadium named after an airline.
Aye but there's a question of future-proofing for future developments too.
Both a new stadium and a renovated stadium in 2023 might need further work done in 2038, but that future work could be a lot easier for the former rather than the latter due to carrying fewer legacy design issues. It's important to remember that the developments on the stadium aren't a once off thing.
I genuinely don't mind which route we go down, but the biggest mistake would be for the club to spend a lot of money to renovate the stadium now only to still find in 20 or so years' time that we realistically still need a new stadium to keep up with how other football stadiums are developing. Whoever is making the decision now has to think long term and decide if we will need a new stadium over coming decades and if so is now the time to bite that bullet.
And that really comes down to practicalities we're not going to know from the outside around what actual design restrictions we'd be carrying into the future if we kept the current stadium.
Video is 8 months old but it goes through various options including, renoivation, expand, and new build. Not a fan of the silver shell idea but interesting to see what could be possible. (apologies if this link has already been shared)
What if that airline is United Airlines though ?
It's a good point made about future proofing.
I would like to think that any major refurbishment of Old Trafford would factor in potential development /future money making opportunities. I do think a 90,000 seater stadium would provide us with a sweet spot in terms of capacity and maximising revenue, therefore I am not sure any future expansion would be required. United do own a lot of land around Old Trafford so there is the option to develop that land into a 'United Village' as a potential future developement with OT at the epicenter.
Is that not the same as a rebuild?
I'm not sure if they own the freight terminal.
However United or one of it's subsidiaries do own around 40acres around OT, plus the plus it stands on, the land for the north stand expansion cost £29m at the time.
Most of the land United own is used as car and coach matchday parking.
It’s not a question of planning permission. The cost of relocating the freight terminal would be massive.
Relocation has been looked at in recent years, not for United’s benefit but because running long slow freight trains across one of the country’s busiest passenger rail corridors is a massive pain. Aside from the cost, neither the rail nor road operators that use it are keen on a move.
There's a whole bloody city 10 minutes on the tram away ffs
Seriously, what difference does a building make? Knock the fecker down and start again with a fit for purpose stadium. Nobody remembers or cares about old Wembley. Times change and people move on.
In the interests of fairness that's because the old Wembley was shite and it's been replaced by a new, but still shite, stadium. People didn't care about Wembley before so why would they now?