New French Tax rate
- Thread starter Shrek
- Start date
If these type of tax rates drive cnuts like Phil Collins and Bono out of the country then what exactly is the problem?
Interesting that so many posters on here really buy into 'economic Darwinism', why just not go the whole hog and bring back the eugenics movement?
Having worked in Tescos, the managers there were barely capable of managing a department in a 1 store. The number of people with the skills are attributes required to manage a region, a country, or a global firm is very slim. There's demand, but supply of people who could actually do these jobs are very very limited. Any one in any form of employment can recognise bad managers, bad team leaders, there's very few people who you can pick out and say "I think person x is very good". Right now I work with around 10 different managers or directors, and in my honest opinion only 8 are real quality people, leaders and decision makers.
It's a bit like Investment Banking...everyone thinks they can do. In fact no, you cannot, the bank gives you a huge amount of their money, and you have to sit there making huge decisions day-to-day. This is why from the entire UK they hire about a firm would hire about 20 people for those roles, they are usually the very very mathematically brightest, and able to cope with immense stress. To attract these kinds of people the high pay incentives and bonuses are needed.
You've never been inside an investment bank and talked to senior managers have you?
I have friends there.. and they are terrible for the most part. The good news is that they are really bright. I guess it's what the bank values the most.
I have a low opinion of the financial sector given they caused the crash which we are paying for right now. Spain is on the verge of break up as they struggle to cut fast enough to allow them to borrow money to bail out their banks
I believe it because i saw it happening in my country. Weve got a fair 35% income tax + no property tax. Guess what? Many foreign people + companies are flocking in. They are buying luxury flats, they are building companies here and they are bringing companies here.Malta is a small nation, surrounded by sea, with no natural resources and with an enormous illegal immigration problem and yet....its out of recession.
In my opinion benefits should change. Give people incentives to work and better themselves (ie free education) and not to remain at home. No one should owe anyone who can work a living.
They hire smart chaps to be quants etc, they aren't the people who get to be senior managers and are so stellar bright that they can't control a single member of staff from bringing the institution to its knees (see Barings, UBS).
We have a 19% income tax for companies or you can opt for 18% & 32% scheme but it's usually not worth it. It doesn't matter if you earn €1k a month or €50k a month you still pay the same rate. I'm fine with it.
Which country do you come from?
In Britain there is a polar dynamic. On one hand you have too many freeloaders at the bottom of society, who are exploiting the welfare state as they are to idle and undignified to earn an honest wage. And on the other hand you have the sharks at the top, who are hoarding wealth and avoiding paying taxes by influencing government policy to enable them to do so.
The people who lose out are the honest hard working in the middle. I am talking about the low wage working class man to the more affluent small business owners and everyone in between. These are the people who play by the rules, work hard and as a result end up funding the greedy and the idle.
You are leaches on the wealth of other nations, it's nothing to be proud of
In my country there's a say. With money you can create a road right through the sea (which means that you can do anything). Thats why I feel that this 75% income tax is stupid. Rest assured that if there's a loophole they are going to find it.
I believe that countries should leave ideologies on the side and invest their efforts in making their country attractive. Fleecing the rich or giving freeloaders another pay check with no ties attachments will sort nothing. However if you ask a fair share + push the freeloaders to do something (either work or study) then you got a deal. Im not saying that we're perfect and much can be done about the freeloaders but I believe we're doing decently well.
Competing on tax rates leads only to a race to the bottom, tax rates are cut, worker rights are slashed, and public services are done away with to attract international investment. It means the vast majority are fecked over to cater to the whims of a rich few who have no loyalty to any nation or people, their only motivation is money
I look forward to the day another nation comes along and undercuts yours, I'm sure you'll be delighted to see all the capital flying away seeing as you want to see countries make themselves attractive
The majority of workers in Malta are on indefinitive contracts, we've got the sixth lower unemployment rate in Europe and we've got 24 minimum leave + 14 public holidays. Salaries are not as good as in Western Europe but the taxes are much lower which sort of compensate things up. Education is free even at tertiary level and students are actually given a stipend to study.
How can you have indefinitive contracts and a guranteed 24 days holiday a year?
Your nation is currently undercutting the majority, when they move down to meet your standards you'll be forced to cut to stay competative or see capital fly away.
It happened already in at least two occasions. Before the 50s Malta's economy relied heavily on military (British empire forces) and the shipbuilding (who employed nearly a third of the country). That dependence was gradually reduced throughout time. We moved to the labor intensive factories and tourism. The latter is fairly strong, the former had all moved to Asia or North Africa. We adapted quickly to create an attractive environment for pharmaceutical, financial and e gaming companies to move in. We're also in advanced talks with Dubai which are interested to create a mini Silicon valley in Malta.
Adaption is the secret to success. If we didnt adapted then we would have ended up like another former colony failed state. When Malta became Indipendent it was in ruins and nearly bankrupt (our former colonists thought it was a good idea to compensate Malta by giving its people the George cross while sending thousands on dole and not giving us access to the Marshall aid). We've made adaption a skill which we thrive in.
You don't get it, whats happens when someone undercuts you? The only adaption is to cut taxes even further. So you do it and then another nation comes along and cuts even further so you have to do it again and again and again in an endless spiral to keep your nation competative
Come to Malta and see
I'm sure its rosey now, it won't be once somewhere else is seen as more generous to investors
The secret is to stay focused on what the market demands and act before shit hits fan. We've got an attractive package. We've got highly skilled labor (tertiary education in Malta is free) on reasonable salaries. We've done it twice before. We'll adapt for other transitions.
If you cant be the bigger guy then you've got to be the smarter one.
If the market demands it are you willing to see a tax cut that means your government cant afford to educate your kids? Are you willing to meet a demand that sees wages fall 10/20/30%?
You have no idea what Malta has passed during the 50s-60s dont you? Malta was left in ruins (most bombed area during the WW2) and the very people whom we fought war for was undercutting us by reducing their financial aid and not allowing us to access the Marshall aid. Meanwhile our neighbours in the south were adopting dictators as leaders. At a point the government didn't had the money to pay the civil servants. Believe me we know how ruthless the market can be.
Been there and done that. Malta had a wage freeze during the 70s-80s which lasted for nearly a decade. However our secret is to adapt quickly ie see were the market is heading to and work on it. When a large chunk of people used to work in the textile industry, the government was already thinking forward by investing on education and trying to attract the big financial/e gaming companies. When the textiles industry kicked the bucket we barely felt it.
+ dont give benefits that you cant afford to give. I wished we did better on that to be honest.
Hate the poor, love the rich.
If that's addressed to me, you barely see homeless people in Malta.
Education is a benefit, so is health care, if you keep adapting you'll end up with a stark choice between pleasing the market and taking care of your people
That was addressed to the thread. I didn't expect to wake up to a thread about how the poor and unemployed are lazy and the wealthy are all hard-working saints. Or about how Atlus Shrugged is a good read (it isn't.)
I dont believe that. However I acknowledge human nature. If you give incentives to a person to stay at home and do nothing + you dont give him a chance (or a kick at his back) to do something with his life (ie free education, internship), then you cant be surprised if he becomes a free loader. Same thing about the rich people. If you treat them as cash cows then you cant be surprised if they try to find ways how to trick the system. They certainly have the resources to do that.
We learnt that through the hard way. There were times in Malta were income tax was sky high. When it was decided to lower it, many thought that the government will end up bankrupt. Guess what? The government ended up earning more money by lowering it.
We've managed to do both (with plenty of sacrifices) for 80 yrs. That's not bad isn't it?
One cant live without the other.
Why does everything have to be so black and white in your(and other suitably left-wing) eyes?
No-one is saying that it is as clear cut as all that - people have said that a 75% tax rate is poor economically and is unfair as a measure in the first place for it stifles ambition.
This tax measure isn't working. Overly high tax in general isn't working in France either. All that's happening is that major corporations are moving their business to nearby Poland in order to keep their tax under control, and that's creating unemployment in France. This creates more and more poorer people, and less and less tax coming into the country to help them out.
The great irony in this whole debate is that people genuinely believe that a 75% tax rate helps the poor. It does, in fact, the complete opposite. A balanced tax system is how you help them - you make the wealthy pay the most, but a fair amount, and then they'll still invest locally as opposed to elsewhere.
This isn't even party political anymore - no-one really believes that 75% tax is a sensible way of running the country. The French absolutely hate it.
It's pretty normal and the way it should be, investors go to the most attractive countries.
Bugger me I see chairman pete and his commie chums are out in force this morning.
So, lets get this straight, a bright young kid goes off to uni, studies for years to becaome a doctor, more years specialising in a certain area, and becomes one of the best around. And we should reward/ encourage this by taking vast sums of money he has legitimately earned away from him. Tell you what, why not cap his wages to the same as those in a 9-5 unskilled factory job.....that will really encourage people to do something difficult.
So, lets get this straight, a bright young kid goes off to uni, studies for years to becaome a doctor, more years specialising in a certain area, and becomes one of the best around. And we should reward/ encourage this by taking vast sums of money he has legitimately earned away from him. Tell you what, why not cap his wages to the same as those in a 9-5 unskilled factory job.....that will really encourage people to do something difficult.
doe
No, no, debating a 75% tax rate is fine. Is it way too much, will it actually help France etc. Debate away. But stuff like this:
I mean, come on.
Retiring at 60 is a bit stupid though
I'd rather be a doctor than drive a London bus all day even if the wages were the same.
A lot of people are retiring at 60 or earlier in the UK because no one will give them a job.
A doctor would probably move somewhere else and earn 3 times at much though.
Not when there's pan-global socialism he won't.