New backup striker?

settembrini said:
Why would I forget his performance vs. Chelsea? They did nothing unusual that game, played their standard system, and Rashford gave a great performance, you can't just pretend it didn't happen because you don't like the idea of him being a good striker.

When he was consistently played as a striker by Van Gaal he managed 4 MOTM awards across 18 games, the only player who did better then was Martial with 5.

This is why people consider him special. Because he came into a team as a teenager and instantly looked like one of our best players, because he wrecked the defence of the team that won the league at a canter. Because he has tremendous physical attributes, more skill than most and an attitude that has been constantly praised by his coaches and team mates.

Your point about him 'becoming Welbeck' is why we should stop playing him on the wing. It was fine for a while to allow him to gain experience but he has gone past that point now and it seems to be harming his development. I know his decision making at the moment is frustrating but it's also understandable. Think how hard is must be to get so good at football you can play as a striker for a team like United, at 18 years old. Then imagine doing that and subsequently being told to be equally as good as a winger. He's failing at something which is incredibly hard and which a club with our resources shouldn't even need him to do. You are a very harsh critic if you hold that against him.
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So , even at his 'best', he trailed Martial for MOTM performances. Rashford have a great game against Chelsea but he has had horrible performances at least in his 5 outings. You need not look beyond his goal tally to 'know' for sure that this lad cannot score enough for a top side. There are many instances when a youngster had a great breakout season, only to fade away slowly. Januzaj had excellent seasin under Moyes and now gone. there are other examples like Delfounseo, Ameobi, etc.

Take his pace away and he is not any better than most other 'good' youth strikers. I am not taking away everything from the lad, one thing he has for sure is attitude. and sometimes attitude goes long way, and fare better than talent but at this moment, I could not see him being a top striker ever.

He has too many technical shortcomings to ever be a top striker. Passing - piss poor, Shot- thunderous but never goes in, finishing - can it be any more poorer!, pace - great, cross - needs a lot of work, vision - non existent, holding the ball - non existent, attitude - great.

One thing I want to ask you is - If Rashford feels he is not getting minutes in his natural position, what is stopping him in asking away a loan move? For me, if he wants to keep developing, he should keep playing on the wing and do whatever he can in 10 mins cameo he gets. We surely play enough matches in a season that he will get few chances in central position and he has to show he is better than Lukaku.

Many people use his 'age' as excuse to his poor performances lately. Despite his tender age, he has played many matches already, yet he disappoints game after game, making same kind of mistakes. That is not a good sign at all.
 
Swift Football said:
So , even at his 'best', he trailed Martial for MOTM performances. Rashford have a great game against Chelsea but he has had horrible performances at least in his 5 outings. You need not look beyond his goal tally to 'know' for sure that this lad cannot score enough for a top side. There are many instances when a youngster had a great breakout season, only to fade away slowly. Januzaj had excellent seasin under Moyes and now gone. there are other examples like Delfounseo, Ameobi, etc.

Take his pace away and he is not any better than most other 'good' youth strikers. I am not taking away everything from the lad, one thing he has for sure is attitude. and sometimes attitude goes long way, and fare better than talent but at this moment, I could not see him being a top striker ever.

He has too many technical shortcomings to ever be a top striker. Passing - piss poor, Shot- thunderous but never goes in, finishing - can it be any more poorer!, pace - great, cross - needs a lot of work, vision - non existent, holding the ball - non existent, attitude - great.

One thing I want to ask you is - If Rashford feels he is not getting minutes in his natural position, what is stopping him in asking away a loan move? For me, if he wants to keep developing, he should keep playing on the wing and do whatever he can in 10 mins cameo he gets. We surely play enough matches in a season that he will get few chances in central position and he has to show he is better than Lukaku.

Many people use his 'age' as excuse to his poor performances lately. Despite his tender age, he has played many matches already, yet he disappoints game after game, making same kind of mistakes. That is not a good sign at all.
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Ultra negative post. Personally I think he's a winger rather than a striker but there's no doubting his quality. He's proved that both for united and england.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Ultra negative post. Personally I think he's a winger rather than a striker but there's no doubting his quality. He's proved that both for united and england.
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What has he proved for england yet?!
I am just being realistic and saying that given his shortcomings, the best way to 'groom' him is to give him less responsibilities and play him in positions which faces less scrutiny rather than pitching him in center forward. He surely deserves a chance from whatever he has shown till now, but I am not that optimistic that he will ever lead our line.
 
I think we need 2 players in each position who are good enough to start. Currently we have Lukaku (ST), Martial and Rashford (LW/ST), Sanchez (RW hopefully), Lingard (do we really know?), Mata (CAM, RW).

In my mind Lukaku is only a striker.
Mata is a 10 and cover on the RW.
Sanchez should be our RW (but can play LW, ST, CAM)
Rashford and Martial are both LW but could be strikers.

We can go two ways.

1. Make one of Martial or Rashford a striker and competitor for lukaku. In which case we should buy a LM.
2. Buy an out and out striker to compete with Lukaku.

I'd prefer option 2, as I see Martial as a modern wide attacker and right now Rashford can't manage centre stage.

Belloti might be an option (not cheap though). We could also take a risk with Dembele of Celtic, but not sure if he could make the step up. Having said that currently we have the luxury to experiment.
 
Swift Football said:
So , even at his 'best', he trailed Martial for MOTM performances. Rashford have a great game against Chelsea but he has had horrible performances at least in his 5 outings. You need not look beyond his goal tally to 'know' for sure that this lad cannot score enough for a top side. There are many instances when a youngster had a great breakout season, only to fade away slowly. Januzaj had excellent seasin under Moyes and now gone. there are other examples like Delfounseo, Ameobi, etc.

Take his pace away and he is not any better than most other 'good' youth strikers. I am not taking away everything from the lad, one thing he has for sure is attitude. and sometimes attitude goes long way, and fare better than talent but at this moment, I could not see him being a top striker ever.

He has too many technical shortcomings to ever be a top striker. Passing - piss poor, Shot- thunderous but never goes in, finishing - can it be any more poorer!, pace - great, cross - needs a lot of work, vision - non existent, holding the ball - non existent, attitude - great.

One thing I want to ask you is - If Rashford feels he is not getting minutes in his natural position, what is stopping him in asking away a loan move? For me, if he wants to keep developing, he should keep playing on the wing and do whatever he can in 10 mins cameo he gets. We surely play enough matches in a season that he will get few chances in central position and he has to show he is better than Lukaku.

Many people use his 'age' as excuse to his poor performances lately. Despite his tender age, he has played many matches already, yet he disappoints game after game, making same kind of mistakes. That is not a good sign at all.
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Ronaldo at his age was not great either. Actually had quite a long stretches when he was completely shit, losing balls with dribbling, falling all the time, hardly putting decent crosses in. It's closer to 2007, so his forth season when he started to hit it off in a consistent manner. And where exactly was Harry Kane at 20?
There is no discussion that Rashford needs guidance and he needs to develop, but at his age he has a lot potential. As for loans - they are not for everybody. It can easily go wrong and he can just lose the time. With 4 goals and 5 assists in PL he's actually made a decent contribution. He has also been extremely unlucky, he hit the posts, woodworks more than any other our player i reckon.
MU should definitely keep and develop Rashford.
 
Vilev said:
Ronaldo at his age was not great either. Actually had quite a long stretches when he was completely shit, losing balls with dribbling, falling all the time, hardly putting decent crosses in. It's closer to 2007, so his forth season when he started to hit it off in a consistent manner. And where exactly was Harry Kane at 20?
There is no discussion that Rashford needs guidance and he needs to develop, but at his age he has a lot potential. As for loans - they are not for everybody. It can easily go wrong and he can just lose the time. With 4 goals and 5 assists in PL he's actually made a decent contribution. He has also been extremely unlucky, he hit the posts, woodworks more than any other our player i reckon.
MU should definitely keep and develop Rashford.
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Absolutely agree with this. He had a good breakout season (being unknown helps) but then teams put 2 defenders on you. He's in the right place to develop. He's training with top players, competing for a place and when he plays he's having to be at his best to get a look in. He'll have to improve if he wants the glory he's had a taste of. I reckon in 2 years time doubters will look back bashfully.
 
Signing somebody like Ashley Barnes is just stupid. Having Martial, Rashford and hopefully Sanchez it's not wise to sign another light forward as well. In theory we do need a cover, somebody who can play a strong CF, in a similar manner to Lukaku.
But players like that are well suited to play that role are basically shit, just look at Chelsea's list. So honestly i don't know. It might be wiser to keep the position open to offer some guarantees to Rash&Martial. Rather than buy "andy carroll" or whatever. And having two top CFs is literally a recipe for disaster.
 
I'm not sure Sanchez is that happy as a striker but he can play there, however out of the 3 options I think Martial is the one we should be giving more games to as a striker, his technical ability and finishing are class.
 
We already have a backup in Lukaku. We need a leading man.
 
We may not need a back-up striker per se but we will definitely need another attacking player. With Zlatan off and Mata probably off as well, we will only have 5 attacking players, and with a manager that has so far preferred to use 4 in most games, that’s not enough.
 
Vilev said:
Ronaldo at his age was not great either. Actually had quite a long stretches when he was completely shit, losing balls with dribbling, falling all the time, hardly putting decent crosses in. It's closer to 2007, so his forth season when he started to hit it off in a consistent manner. And where exactly was Harry Kane at 20?
There is no discussion that Rashford needs guidance and he needs to develop, but at his age he has a lot potential. As for loans - they are not for everybody. It can easily go wrong and he can just lose the time. With 4 goals and 5 assists in PL he's actually made a decent contribution. He has also been extremely unlucky, he hit the posts, woodworks more than any other our player i reckon.
MU should definitely keep and develop Rashford.
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I never said we should not develop him or never said to loan him out considering most of our loans have not been fruitful.

But I disagree completely that we should give him minutes at center forward any more than what we are giving him already.
 
I'd argue with Alexis in, what we need more is a backup winger.
Currently our wing-options are: Martial, Rashford, Sanchez & Lingard (if you want to be kind, Mata counts).
Now 2 of those will start, likely 3.
3 of those can play as a backup striker if need be, but both Lingard & (a bit harshly) Rashford are "meh" as wingers.

If Lukaku gets injured, we can still put up Martial - Rashford - Sanchez as a front trio, but if Sanchez alone gets injured we're down to having a weakened bench just by options with Rashford taking the place out wide. It makes it hard to put on a player able to change the game.

I'd prefer to see us sign (or promote if there is a player fitting the bill in our youth setup) a winger who can play on the right, who can challenge and create both with quick passes with midfielder and right-back and run for the cross. From what I've read a good fit would be Pulisic at Dortmund, who supposedly is a big talent & a United fan to boot. Another alternative who could add both a creator-alternative in midfield when Pogba is out as well as play as a wide-playmaker would be Özil on a free.

While that leaves us at the point of being over-stacked, I'm not opposed to the idea of getting rid of Mata, who I see as a half-playemaker and half-second striker, but master of neither these days.
We rarely ever play with a #10 these days, and with our current playstyle (fast paced counter-attacks), and I think Mata lacks the pace & honestly creativity/passing ability to do enough to warrant a lot of game-time.
Mind you, I'm thinking one of Pulisic/Özil in and Mata out, and through that have Lingard as a more focused midfielder, preferably backup to a 2nd box to box midfielder with some defensive qualities (that doesn't lack pace) that gives us the option of running with the 2-man midfield with a #10/SS (if we go for Özil, otherwise the box to box midfielder doesn't have to be very good defensively or very fast).

Now the issue with my idea of building up the squad comes down to if players like Pulisic & Özil would accept roles where they are (proper) rotation alternatives. I think other clubs have that kind of quality on the bench (Coman/James/Muller at Bayern. Bale/Asensio/Isco at Real. Draxler/Di Maria/Moura/Pastore or whoever is on the bench at PSG. Silva/Jesus and others at City. Rashford/Martial before/Herrera at United)
 
Don't need a striker, Rashford and Martial can be backup to Lukaku, anyway we should be moving to a 433 and we're going to need back up midfielders.
 
I would rather recall Wilson back from loan and have him as backup striker than bring back Welbz.

Although if we were to bring back someone I would love to see Hernandez back on the terms he knows he is backup.
 
TheHeya said:
I would rather recall Wilson back from loan and have him as backup striker than bring back Welbz.

Although if we were to bring back someone I would love to see Hernandez back on the terms he knows he is backup.
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Would jose actually play wilson when push came to shove though? If not its pointless.last time I checked Wilson's senior goal record wasn't great.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Would jose actually play wilson when push came to shove though? If not its pointless.last time I checked Wilson's senior goal record wasn't great.
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I think it depends on what a backup striker actually means is it Someone who is going to play when it's the cup against weak opposition or someone who is going to come on in the last 10 minutes and get you that winning goal.

I think players like Batshuayi and Hernandez are backup strikers that can be deadly and Impactful when used right and Wilson right now would be backup to the backup if that makes sense.
 
Yes, we do need a target man to whom we go with direct balls and will also help us defending set pieces with his height especially if Fellaini is leaving.

There is a reason why chelsea is going after a big target man like crouch or Barnes.
 
bond19821982 said:
Yes, we do need a target man to whom we go with direct balls and will also help us defending set pieces with his height especially if Fellaini is leaving.

There is a reason why chelsea is going after a big target man like crouch or Barnes.
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If that’s what we truly need then may as well go big for a CM player (position we need) that has those physical attributes like SMS. Rather that then waste our time with dross like Ashley Barnes, it’s actually embarrassing to have a player like that at the club.
 
Clearly from the last game's post-match interview Mourinho does not trust our secondary strikers. He has more traditional strikers like Drogba/Benzema/Costa and now Lukaku. He surely needs someone he can rely on next season at the ST position next year for any title challenge. Lukaku needs someone to keep him on his toes at all times. Zlatan has left so there must be someone in Mourinho's mind to replace him.

Yes, this will alienate Rashford and Martial even more. However, I have given up any long term future between Martial and Mourinho. Mourinho will win that battle and eventually this will bite Man utd in the back side just like it did with Chelsea. But that is for a different topic. In terms of Rashford, I think he is just too comfertable. Yes he has played a lot but not in his ST position. He needs to go on loan. I would rather Rashford go on Loan next season and become one of the best ST in one season (and then come back), than to wait 3 years at united feeding off scraps.

Mourinho said that he doesn't want to sign anymore attacking players, but he said that in January when everyone was playing well and Alexis just came to 'complete the puzzle'. I am not so sure he feels the same way anymore.
 
If Martial stays then Rashford and him should act as Lukaku cover/competition. If Martial leaves then Rashford should move on the left and the money need to be spent on the RW and FW.
 
Similar to the Spurs situation. We play a one-striker ‘system’, and that striker is an undisputed first-choice. Any striker of a level we would want to be back up, would not want to be back up in such a situation.

I recall growing up hearing about countless wingers we missed out on due to Ryan Giggs.
 
It's no coincidence Man utd won the PL and even Champions league with 2-3 top strikers who were near equal in quality. Lukaku is not even world class yet, and Mourinho clearly doesn't rate Martial or Rashford. We may want him to stick to them, but he is a winner and he knows if he doesn't win the PL next season-he is out the door. He doesn't have the patience to wait and let younger players grow. That's a downfall of his, but that also means he wants to win 'now'. He isn't a babysitter and he clearly doesn't have the qualities to coach players like Klopp/Pep do.

Just watch this space next season. I am sure he will try to fill that Zlatan position.
 
If we are to add another attacker to our squad, it should be a RW first and foremost. There is no point in signing a ST when we didn't have a proper RW, RB & LB for years now. Most of our attackers are strikers anyway.
 
Maybe by sticking Rashford in ONE position instead of flipping him between left side and central striker will see him actually become great in ONE position, it did Phil Jones no good being used all over the place nor John O’Shea or Phil Neville so use Rashford regularly as a striker and he’ll be the back up Lukaku needs.
 
Vilev said:
Ronaldo at his age was not great either. Actually had quite a long stretches when he was completely shit, losing balls with dribbling, falling all the time, hardly putting decent crosses in. It's closer to 2007, so his forth season when he started to hit it off in a consistent manner. And where exactly was Harry Kane at 20?
There is no discussion that Rashford needs guidance and he needs to develop, but at his age he has a lot potential. As for loans - they are not for everybody. It can easily go wrong and he can just lose the time. With 4 goals and 5 assists in PL he's actually made a decent contribution. He has also been extremely unlucky, he hit the posts, woodworks more than any other our player i reckon.
MU should definitely keep and develop Rashford.
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I do agree with you here. I think people got carried away with Rashford jsut with how he broke through out of nowhere and had such a great start he has been overhyped and therefore expected too much of too soon. There is a lot of talent there....I am not sure he will develop like Ronaldo in terms of improving on weak areas of his game. I dont see the level of finishing becoming good enough to be a top striker, nor the end product to be a top winger, but his pace and dribbling can cause any team problems..... I personally think he is actually best as an impact player from the bench than a starter, and that this will continue to be the case...with the early hype and expectations I am not sure he will settle with that though.
 
If we played with two up top I wouldn’t mind seeing Icardi brought in. He just kinda has that classic striker thing to him. Don’t see him falling in to the role of a ‘back-up’ striker so guess it would have to be someone ageing and given they way we play someone with quite a physical presence. Mandzukic is someone who was mentioned recently who would probably fall in to that category.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
If we played with two up top I wouldn’t mind seeing Icardi brought in. He just kinda has that classic striker thing to him. Don’t see him falling in to the role of a ‘back-up’ striker so guess it would have to be someone ageing and given they way we play someone with quite a physical presence. Mandzukic is someone who was mentioned recently who would probably fall in to that category.
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Inter won't sell him for a penny less than his release clause and it's 110 million euros. He wants new contract now and probably that release clause will be increased.

Playing with Lukaku and Icardi together will be a massive fail.
 
davidmichael said:
Maybe by sticking Rashford in ONE position instead of flipping him between left side and central striker will see him actually become great in ONE position, it did Phil Jones no good being used all over the place nor John O’Shea or Phil Neville so use Rashford regularly as a striker and he’ll be the back up Lukaku needs.
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Rashford plays like one game a year as striker. And people then say he's a bad striker.
Same with Martial.
 
Suedesi said:
Get Icardi if Griezman ends up in Catalonia.
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Agree with this and with Lukaku refusing to start the Cup Final and hand Chelsea the initiative
lets see how he likes the bench when we have a striker capable of scoring

He might even want to leave and am sure Jose would let him, Jose was livid
 
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1974_Fergie_Time said:
Agree with this and with Lukaku refusing to start the Cup Final and hand Chelsea the initiative
lets see how he likes the bench when we have a striker capable of scoring

He might even want to leave and am sure Jose would let him, Jose was livid
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And yet when he came on he played like someone that wasn’t fit. Because he wasn’t fit. If a player is injured their injured.
 
roonster09 said:
Inter won't sell him for a penny less than his release clause and it's 110 million euros. He wants new contract now and probably that release clause will be increased.

Playing with Lukaku and Icardi together will be a massive fail.
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Why do you think that? With the way we supposedly try to play of get ball in box those two would be pretty good together. Icardi is one of the best natural finishers I’ve seen in a while. Would be a bit of a throw back pairing for sure but I kinda feel if they were supplied the’d get the goals. Obviously not for everyone tho and if I had my preferred option up front we’d play someone like an Aguero or something.(not many of those about tho)
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Why do you think that? With the way we supposedly try to play of get ball in box those two would be pretty good together. Icardi is one of the best natural finishers I’ve seen in a while. Would be a bit of a throw back pairing for sure but I kinda feel if they were supplied the’d get the goals. Obviously not for everyone tho and if I had my preferred option up front we’d play someone like an Aguero or something.(not many of those about tho)
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Icardi is very limited player, Lukaku isn't very good all-round player either. So we will be very limited side.
 
roonster09 said:
Icardi is very limited player, Lukaku isn't very good all-round player either. So we will be very limited side.
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I do agree they have limitations but we are a very limited side, and we will play to our strength as that’s what Jose wants. So two people who are deadly in the box and can mix it with hopefully service going in, I would think that would be like a Jose dream.

Mandzukic kind of in the same mode just not as good as say a finisher/poacher as Icardi although he’d be better in the air. But again that would play in to how Jose likes to play.

Sure I read this morning that PSG are going to get financial restrictions so wonder if that means they can’t complete the Mbappe deal. Sure that’s not the case but if it weren’t I’d be knocking on Monaco’s door if I was woody.
 
Think Mourinho wants a big CF who can hold up the ball. Someone going on the cheap, that will fill in if Lukaku gets injured or needs a rest.
 
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