Neville: Varane, Sancho, Kane

120 goals in 8 seasons in the premier league and a league and cup winner is surely enough to be in the elite category.

15 goals a season?

Van Nistelrooy managed 95 goals in 5 seasons (19)
Henry managed 174 in 8 seasons (21.75)
Augero managed 184 in 10 seasons (18.4) which was more like 180 in 9 seasons (20).

That’s what the Elite players contribute, Vardy has been top quality but he’s below the upper echelons.
 
15 goals a season?

Van Nistelrooy managed 95 goals in 5 seasons (19)
Henry managed 174 in 8 seasons (21.75)
Augero managed 184 in 10 seasons (18.4) which was more like 180 in 9 seasons (20).

That’s what the Elite players contribute, Vardy has been top quality but he’s below the upper echelons.

You are comparing players who played for clubs who were top 2 or 3 in the country with Vardy at Leicester who were a newly promoted team in Vardy's first season in the prem and were battling relegation that season. Not really a fair comparison.
 
15 goals a season?

Van Nistelrooy managed 95 goals in 5 seasons (19)
Henry managed 174 in 8 seasons (21.75)
Augero managed 184 in 10 seasons (18.4) which was more like 180 in 9 seasons (20).

That’s what the Elite players contribute, Vardy has been top quality but he’s below the upper echelons.

He played for a much worse team than these players did. Its a completely disingenuous argument
 
Varane Sancho Ronaldo wasn’t a bad approximation at all. Ronaldo suits our needs better than Harry.
 
Is there any forward in England who is really good after 30-31 years of age after playing continuously in EPL from young age. I can't think of any. If you play as a forward in EPL for more than 10 years, I think you will not be a same player beyond 30-31 years.

Rooney once he crossed 30 years went down-hill and I think Kane will also go through the same. After 30 he will lose couple of yards of pace and he will start drifting more and more into midfield. So in that sense, buying Cristiano is better deal than kane.
Judging this on the past is a bit misleading in my opinion. Elite strikers around the world are sustaining (and sometimes increasing) their level into their 30's, in a way you didn't ever really see before. Lewandowski, Benzema, Suarez, Cavani, Ronaldo, and Ibrahimovic have all sustained a very high level in their 30's. I know none of them played in the PL during their peak, but it's not that different. I could definitely see Kane sustaining a high level in the same way.

Rooney and Kane are a bad comparison. Kane really only played at the highest level from age 21-22, when Rooney was doing it from 18, so more miles on the clock. And as has been mentioned by others, Kane takes much better care of himself.

However, if you're looking for an example of a PL veteran who was world class in his 30's, look no further than Didier Drogba.
 
Is there any forward in England who is really good after 30-31 years of age after playing continuously in EPL from young age. I can't think of any. If you play as a forward in EPL for more than 10 years, I think you will not be a same player beyond 30-31 years.

Rooney once he crossed 30 years went down-hill and I think Kane will also go through the same. After 30 he will lose couple of yards of pace and he will start drifting more and more into midfield. So in that sense, buying Cristiano is better deal than kane.
Judging this on the past is a bit misleading in my opinion. Elite strikers around the world are sustaining (and sometimes increasing) their level into their 30's, in a way you didn't ever really see before. Lewandowski, Benzema, Suarez, Cavani, Ronaldo, and Ibrahimovic have all sustained a very high level in their 30's. I know none of them played in the PL during their peak, but it's not that different. I could definitely see Kane sustaining a high level in the same way.

Rooney and Kane are a bad comparison. Kane really only played at the highest level from age 21-22, when Rooney was doing it from 18, so more miles on the clock. And as has been mentioned by others, Kane takes much better care of himself.

However, if you're looking for an example of a PL veteran who was world class in his 30's, look no further than Didier Drogba.
There is a certain someone called Ryan Giggs. You guys might have heard of him.
 
15 goals a season?

Van Nistelrooy managed 95 goals in 5 seasons (19)
Henry managed 174 in 8 seasons (21.75)
Augero managed 184 in 10 seasons (18.4) which was more like 180 in 9 seasons (20).

That’s what the Elite players contribute, Vardy has been top quality but he’s below the upper echelons.
Prime United
Prime Aesenal
Prime Oil Money

Leicester.

I'm sure Vardy is an elite striker.
 
Neville seems a bit hypocritical

Said a couple of months ago that if we sign Varane, Sancho and Kane and we would win the league.

We sign Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo and he predicts we will finish 3rd.

Ok then… either he rates Ronaldo as that much worse than Kane. Or he thinks Kane will lead Spurs to 1st or 2nd
You just summed up how the ole-in crown shift their goalpost time and time again.

With our summer signing, we should win the league or at least put up a good challenge. Neville is just protecting his mate with lower expectations in case things doesn’t pan out like that.
 
I've not been a big fan of Kane since the Euros.
 
Gary Neville has stated without hesitation that the 3 players we should sign are the 3 aforementioned: Varane for his vast experience, Sancho and Kane for obvious reasons.

Realistic or flight of fancy? No mention of a quality CDM
So he backed down when to find excuses for his mate. Hypocrite. It is like Ole's fanboys who said he needs to be backed, now they say we cant win the league without a DM.
 
He played for a much worse team than these players did. Its a completely disingenuous argument
It's worth mentioning that they all played for sides that would mostly face teams sitting deep and playing defensively whereas Leicester face teams that have played more openly and left much more space for him to exploit with his pace. There's no guarantee his skillset would translate to the best teams.
 
It's worth mentioning that they all played for sides that would mostly face teams sitting deep and playing defensively whereas Leicester face teams that have played more openly and left much more space for him to exploit with his pace. There's no guarantee his skillset would translate to the best teams.

It's a completely pedantic point the best teams always have the top goal scorers it's just a fact so there clearly isn't enough of a factor of the low block to stop the best scoring. Also there are plenty of players with Vardy's exact skill set that have been the best in the league. Agüero, Owen, Ruud, fowler etc all quick players feeding off scraps but can come to life at any second.
 
He played for a much worse team than these players did. Its a completely disingenuous argument
It’s not. There’s names like Hasselbaink, Defoe, Bent and Dublin who are in and around him in the all time charts who scored their goals at teams a similar level to Leicester. They’re all quality players but they’re not remembered as elites. Not in the company of the names I mentioned plus Shearer, Rooney, Cole, Kane et al.
 
It’s not. There’s names like Hasselbaink, Defoe, Bent and Dublin who are in and around him in the all time charts who scored their goals at teams a similar level to Leicester. They’re all quality players but they’re not remembered as elites. Not in the company of the names I mentioned plus Shearer, Rooney, Cole, Kane et al.

They also don't have the record Vardy has against the top 6 teams in the league. Come on your point is pedantic when it comes to Vardy. He has literally carried an attack to the Premier league and has a ridiculous record against teams better than his and has sustained it ever since he joined the league. The guy has literally broken records whilst playing for leicester nonse of the other players you have mentioned have sustained what he has for the length of time.

Literally the only player close to his record is Jimmy who most would agree is actually one of the best strikers in the prem. And he didn't even manage to get his team to get to the titles that vardy has.
 
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They also don't have the record Vardy has against the top 6 teams in the league. Come on your point is pedantic when it comes to Vardy. He has literally carried an attack to the Premier league and has a ridiculous record against teams better than his and has sustained it ever since he joined the league. The guy has literally broken records whilst playing for leicester nonse of the other players you have mentioned have sustained what he has for the length of time.
He’s done well to be mentioned in the same breath as the players I’ve mentioned above and there is absolutely no shame in not being in the select handful of EPL elites who were also considered the best players in the world at their peak, something Vardy hasn’t proven due to his lack of appearances in the Champions League. I’m not sure why you’re so desperate to raise him into this category.
 
He’s done well to be mentioned in the same breath as the players I’ve mentioned above and there is absolutely no shame in not being in the select handful of EPL elites who were also considered the best players in the world at their peak, something Vardy hasn’t proven due to his lack of appearances in the Champions League. I’m not sure why you’re so desperate to raise him into this category.

The players you mentioned have never elevated their teams as vardy has its a simple fact none of them has his record none of them have scored what he has against the best teams in the league. He is simply above them in every metric.
 
Is there any forward in England who is really good after 30-31 years of age after playing continuously in EPL from young age. I can't think of any. If you play as a forward in EPL for more than 10 years, I think you will not be a same player beyond 30-31 years.

Rooney once he crossed 30 years went down-hill and I think Kane will also go through the same. After 30 he will lose couple of yards of pace and he will start drifting more and more into midfield. So in that sense, buying Cristiano is better deal than kane.

Shearer?
 
Is there any forward in England who is really good after 30-31 years of age after playing continuously in EPL from young age. I can't think of any. If you play as a forward in EPL for more than 10 years, I think you will not be a same player beyond 30-31 years.

Rooney once he crossed 30 years went down-hill and I think Kane will also go through the same. After 30 he will lose couple of yards of pace and he will start drifting more and more into midfield. So in that sense, buying Cristiano is better deal than kane.

Zlatan could have done his whole career here in the PL and hit 15-25 every year until very recently. He’s another freak though. Not relying on pace is a huge part of it. The football brain gets better but the legs go.
 
Neville seems a bit hypocritical

Said a couple of months ago that if we sign Varane, Sancho and Kane and we would win the league.

We sign Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo and he predicts we will finish 3rd.

Ok then… either he rates Ronaldo as that much worse than Kane. Or he thinks Kane will lead Spurs to 1st or 2nd
He's just protecting his mate in advance.
I do take your point, but he even said himself that we needed those big signings (Varane, Sancho and Kane) BECAUSE City, Liverpool and Chelsea would strengthen themselves.

If city had signed Messi, Liverpool had signed Mbappe and Chelsea had signed Ronaldo, I could accept your point. But none of them did anything more than you expected them to back when Neville made the statement. In fact I would say they all did less.
You just summed up how the ole-in crown shift their goalpost time and time again.

With our summer signing, we should win the league or at least put up a good challenge. Neville is just protecting his mate with lower expectations in case things doesn’t pan out like that.
He is not saying he doesn't think we can win it. What he is basically admitting is he is unsure Ole has the ability to do it and is more certain of the talents of Pep and Chelsea coach probably because they have just won major silverware recently. he even says this "Chelsea, who were the Champions League winners last season, and Manchester City, who were 20 points clear" Its more a lack of confidence in Ole which is understandable as he still has to prove himself at the top level where as the other guys all have.
 
He is not saying he doesn't think we can win it. What he is basically admitting is he is unsure Ole has the ability to do it and is more certain of the talents of Pep and Chelsea coach probably because they have just won major silverware recently. he even says this "Chelsea, who were the Champions League winners last season, and Manchester City, who were 20 points clear" Its more a lack of confidence in Ole which is understandable as he still has to prove himself at the top level where as the other guys all have.

I think people have a problem with him not just saying he is unsure of Ole
 
G Nev would have backtracked even if we'd signed Kane instead of Ronaldo.

People are allowed to change their minds and all, but he's the genius who said we'd win the league Liverpool would.
 
He's not admitting that though. He's never referenced the fact that we have a less experienced, and frankly less talented, manager than Liverpool, Chelsea and City. He's hiding behind this notion that we had to sign players x and y, otherwise expecting us to win the title is ridiculous. The cynic in me would say he picked Kane especially because he knew we had no chance of signing him. Not expecting us to then go and sign a player who's even better than Kane. :lol:

It's clear Neville and others want to put a narrative in place ahead of time because they clearly don't rate Ole's chances of overcoming this perceived managerial deficit.
"How could we possibly expect to compete for the title without signing another centre mid?"
"How could we even dare to think about staying ahead of Chelsea when they just signed Lukaku?!" ... after we sign Ronaldo who out performed Lukaku by every measurable aspect of the game last season
You have to read between the lines. He knows we have a team capable of winning and his Kane comments demonstrate this. He just doesn't want to put pressure on Ole as he himself is unsure and he admitted Ole has it all to prove and was disappointed with the Europa result last year. He said we can challenge or be right up there but doesn't actually think we will be first. That means yes everything is there (playing squad wise) and it's possible for us to win it but he don't think we will get over the line because of the comp which is where the gaffers are supposed to differentiate themselves. Its a subtle way of him showing his heart. If SAF managed this squad he would probably say he fancies US for the title would you agree?
 
Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is at least as good as Kane, surely?
 
Is there any forward in England who is really good after 30-31 years of age after playing continuously in EPL from young age. I can't think of any. If you play as a forward in EPL for more than 10 years, I think you will not be a same player beyond 30-31 years.

Rooney once he crossed 30 years went down-hill and I think Kane will also go through the same. After 30 he will lose couple of yards of pace and he will start drifting more and more into midfield. So in that sense, buying Cristiano is better deal than kane.

People like to use Rooney as the poster boy of the whole "made his debut as a teen and burnt out by the time he reached his late 20s" but fail to take into account the kind of lifestyle he had off the pitch. The guy was a smoker and by all accounts, a pretty regular drinker. He never took care of his body the way a modern top athlete should have.
 
People like to use Rooney as the poster boy of the whole "made his debut as a teen and burnt out by the time he reached his late 20s" but fail to take into account the kind of lifestyle he had off the pitch. The guy was a smoker and by all accounts, a pretty regular drinker. He never took care of his body the way a modern top athlete should have.
I genuinely don’t think we know the half for Rooney’s drinking habits.

That time he was on England duty as captain and had a night off and put away 10 pints and stumbled into a wedding. There’s a couplthings you can infer from that.

1. He has the tolerance to put away 10 pints. You don’t do that as a casual drinker.
2. Drinking is so normal for him, he didn’t think to have a night off when he’s away on England duty - as captain.


Let’s be honest, you don’t pick a night when you are away on England duty as captain as that “rare night you have one too many”. I think it’s blatantly obvious he was a regular drinker and the way his fitness and performances went in his late 20s is consistent with that.
 
I've not been a big fan of Kane since the Euros.

I think it’s evident he doesn’t look after himself in the summer. Every season he’s terrible in August, then he gets 4 goals against Burnley and suddenly he’s world class again.
 
I genuinely don’t think we know the half for Rooney’s drinking habits.

That time he was on England duty as captain and had a night off and put away 10 pints and stumbled into a wedding. There’s a couplthings you can infer from that.

1. He has the tolerance to put away 10 pints. You don’t do that as a casual drinker.
2. Drinking is so normal for him, he didn’t think to have a night off when he’s away on England duty - as captain.


Let’s be honest, you don’t pick a night when you are away on England duty as captain as that “rare night you have one too many”. I think it’s blatantly obvious he was a regular drinker and the way his fitness and performances went in his late 20s is consistent with that.

Half of his early tweets are him off his face early morning...
 
I wanted Kane but I'll take Ronaldo for now.

We finally have a world class number 9 since Van Persie.

Next sort out midfield and possibly right-back and we'll be back up there winning titles IMO
 
We dodged that Kane bullet for sure. He was shocking against Chelsea. I saw him dropping so deep that he was hanging around between the CB’s of his own team while breaks were happening. His heads gone.
 
We dodged that Kane bullet for sure. He was shocking against Chelsea. I saw him dropping so deep that he was hanging around between the CB’s of his own team while breaks were happening. His heads gone.

He'd still be brilliant for us. A world class striker.

Much better than what we had (Cavani, Martial)

But the chances of anything happening was zero this summer..

Plus we got Ronaldo now short term, so im not complaining.
 
He'd still be brilliant for us. A world class striker.

Much better than what we had (Cavani, Martial)

But the chances of anything happening was zero this summer..

Plus we got Ronaldo now short term, so im not complaining.

I'd take a 28 year old Cavani any day over a 28 year old Kane. Even at 34 he is still arguably the better player.
Kane can't run and hasn't been able to run since the last world Cup. His fitness levels are atrocious.
He regularly fecks up counter attacks in big games as he hasn't the energy to get in the box.
 
He'd still be brilliant for us. A world class striker.

Much better than what we had (Cavani, Martial)

But the chances of anything happening was zero this summer..

Plus we got Ronaldo now short term, so im not complaining.

Not sure he would. He also does all the things that Lukaku used to constantly get so much stick for on here, except he does them much more. He would score goals for us but it would be more about whether that counter balanced the negative impact on our build up play, or goals he would take away from other players. No way Fernandes gets nearly 30 goals a season with Kane in the same team. No way you end up with both Rashford and Greenwood aiming for 20 odd and Cavani not far behind.

You can make a similar argument with Ronaldo, but he was a lot cheaper, he's Ronaldo, and actually he's a LOT more mobile at 36 than Kane has been at any point in his career. I think he's a much better fit.

I'm not sure and am still not sure wh it was "obvious" we should sign Sancho though. You can't really justify putting him anywhere in the starting eleven, and that's with Rashford and Cavani injured.
 
Think Ronaldo is a lot better than Harry Kane till this day. Also really hate watching his game for the biggest part of the season.
 
We dodged that Kane bullet for sure. He was shocking against Chelsea. I saw him dropping so deep that he was hanging around between the CB’s of his own team while breaks were happening. His heads gone.
Maybe it’s just to him sulking since he didn’t get his move?