NBA 2023-2024

MrMarcello said:
Guessing Wilt is 11th on your list.
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He is actually. The trouble with Wilt is that he had all the talent, but could never seem to come through when it mattered (for the most part). I think he had more talent than Bill Russell, but from everything I've seen on film and read, Russell used to beat him like a drum.

Again, from things I've read, I'm not sure he had the work ethic of the others on my list as well.

Hakeem is 12th.
 
charlton66 said:
He is actually. The trouble with Wilt is that he had all the talent, but could never seem to come through when it mattered (for the most part). I think he had more talent than Bill Russell, but from everything I've seen on film and read, Russell used to beat him like a drum.

Again, from things I've read, I'm not sure he had the work ethic of the others on my list.

Hakeem is 12th.
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Not true in head-to-head individual performance but true in that Boston had the much better team and usually won. Put Wilt on those Boston teams and he's winning all those titles as well.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wilt-chamberlain-stats-vs-bill-russell
 
MrMarcello said:
Not true in head-to-head individual performance but true in that Boston had the much better team and usually won. Put Wilt on those Boston teams and he's winning all those titles as well.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wilt-chamberlain-stats-vs-bill-russell
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It's funny that you quoted his stats because that was another thing I've read about him. He loved to stat pad and it was almost as important to him for his numbers to look good as winning the actual game.

Russell just wanted to win.
 
charlton66 said:
It's funny that you quoted his stats because that was another thing I've read about him. He loved to stat pad and it was almost as important to him for his numbers to look good as winning the actual game.

Russell just wanted to win.
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We could say the same about a lot of players stat padding, in Wilt's defense he was just freakishly more athletic and bigger than everyone else. Wilt was a phenomenal talent and athlete and Russell was a fantastic player himself. It's easy to say Russell wanted to win when he played for the best team in the league every year, pretty sure every player wants to win. What next, we're gonna measure their heart?
 
MrMarcello said:
We could say the same about a lot of players stat padding, in Wilt's defense he was just freakishly more athletic and bigger than everyone else. Wilt was a phenomenal talent and athlete and Russell was a fantastic player himself. It's easy to say Russell wanted to win when he played for the best team in the league every year, pretty sure every player wants to win. What next, we're gonna measure their heart?
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It's a circular argument about Russell playing for the best team though. He played for the best team because he made them the best team. That's just like saying MJ played for the best team with the Bulls.
 
charlton66 said:
It's a circular argument about Russell playing for the best team though. He played for the best team because he made them the best team. That's just like saying MJ played for the best team with the Bulls.
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You're a Warriors fan, one would think you would like Wilt being that he carried those late 50s & early 60s Warriors sides.

Russell joined a team in 1956 with three future HOFers in Cousy, Ramsey, and Sharman, with Ramsey in his second year and the other two in their prime years. His draft class teammates included two future HOFers in Heinsohn and KC Jones, the former won ROY that year and the latter arrived in 1958. Future HOFers, Sam Jones and Tom Sanders, arrived in the 1957 and 1960 drafts respectively, and Havlicek arrived in 1962. All of those Celtics HOFers played multiple years alongside Russell.

The 1960-61 Celtics had eight HOFers on the roster but the 62-63 squad had nine. Those squads routinely had six to eight HOFers on the roster.

Wilt joined a team in 1959 with three future HOFers in Arizin, Gola, and Rodgers, but only Rodgers stuck around beyond 1962. Al Attles arrived in 1960 while Thurmond arrived in 1963 after Arizin and Gola had departed. Wilt joined a 76ers side that by 1965 had three future HOFers in Cunningham, Greer, and Walker, and led them to a title in 1967.

MJ literally made the Bulls the best team. He had no future HOF caliber teammate when he arrived and not until Pippen was acquired in 1987. He never played alongside more than two HOF caliber players. Perhaps four if we account for Kukoc's HOF credentials soley based on his European performances as he was nowhere near an NBA level HOFer and Robert Parrish's 9.4mpg over 43 games in 96-97 and two postseason games played.
 
MrMarcello said:
You're a Warriors fan, one would think you would like Wilt being that he carried those late 50s & early 60s Warriors sides.

Russell joined a team in 1956 with three future HOFers in Cousy, Ramsey, and Sharman, with Ramsey in his second year and the other two in their prime years. His draft class teammates included two future HOFers in Heinsohn and KC Jones, the former won ROY that year and the latter arrived in 1958. Future HOFers, Sam Jones and Tom Sanders, arrived in the 1957 and 1960 drafts respectively, and Havlicek arrived in 1962. All of those Celtics HOFers played multiple years alongside Russell.

The 1960-61 Celtics had eight HOFers on the roster but the 62-63 squad had nine. Those squads routinely had six to eight HOFers on the roster.

Wilt joined a team in 1959 with three future HOFers in Arizin, Gola, and Rodgers, but only Rodgers stuck around beyond 1962. Al Attles arrived in 1960 while Thurmond arrived in 1963 after Arizin and Gola had departed. Wilt joined a 76ers side that by 1965 had three future HOFers in Cunningham, Greer, and Walker, and led them to a title in 1967.

MJ literally made the Bulls the best team. He had no future HOF caliber teammate when he arrived and not until Pippen was acquired in 1987. He never played alongside more than two HOF caliber players. Perhaps four if we account for Kukoc's HOF credentials soley based on his European performances as he was nowhere near an NBA level HOFer and Robert Parrish's 9.4mpg over 43 games in 96-97 and two postseason games played.
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It's a somewhat circular argument you're making again. The reason why the Celtics had all those HOFs is that they won all those Championships. Without Russell, they don't win anywhere near as many and of course all their players don't get in. Wilt would have actually won a lot more (and been higher on my list ;) ).

Once again, to use a modern day analogy, it's like Draymond Green with the Warriors. Without Steph, he gets nowhere near the Hall of Fame, with him, he probably gets in on the 1st ballot.
 
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charlton66 said:
It's a somewhat circular argument you're making again. The reason why the Celtics had all those HOFs is that they won all those Championships. Without Russell, they don't win anywhere near as many and of course their players don't get in. Wilt would have actually won a lot more.

Once again, to use a modern day analogy, it's like Draymond Green with the Warriors. Without Steph, he gets nowhere near the Hall of Fame, with him, he probably gets in on the 1st ballot.
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Fair point for many of them, but guys like Cousy and Sharman were already on the HOF path before Russell arrived. They were routine all-stars, all-league selections, and MVP finalists.
 
Just as an aside, i thought this was true, but I just looked it up to be sure. When Russell retired at the end of the season in 1969, the Celtics brought back 8 of the remaining 12 guys from their Championship roster (including 3 of the remaining 4 starters) for the 1970 season. They finished 34-48.
 
Once again refs show up for the lakers, AD fouling jokic every possession he touches the ball in the paint, no foul. Nuggets breathe near a laker player 2 ft's it is.
 
SmallCaine said:
Once again refs show up for the lakers, AD fouling jokic every possession he touches the ball in the paint, no foul. Nuggets breathe near a laker player 2 ft's it is.
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It's the same every year. Against the Dubs last year, the Lakers AVERAGED nearly 27 free throws per game. The final count was 160-80.
 
charlton66 said:
It's the same every year. Against the Dubs last year, the Lakers AVERAGED nearly 27 free throws per game. The final count was 160-80.
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Thankfully they toned it down in the 2nd qtr.

Edit- and they have made it worse, it's free for all, clear fouls not called that is until a laker gets clearly fouled.
 
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Embiid is one of the most dislikable player in the league. Anyone else pulling that stunt he did in the first quarter would be a flagrant 2 but he got a flagrant 1 and got 21 FTA tonight.

The NBA ain’t even hiding that they want to give the Sixers some help today.
 
Hamm has to be one of the worst coaches in nba, nuggets are basically spamming the gordon in the paint finish, dude has no clue how to counter it.
 
SmallCaine said:
Hamm has to be one of the worst coaches in nba, nuggets are basically spamming the gordon in the paint finish, dude has no clue how to counter it.
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He's putting Reaves on Gordon and MPJ. The guy is a moron. Should be fired after this game
 
Even Miami without butler managed to take 1 game, full strength lakers getting swept once again and this time in the first round.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
The problem is Lebron fundamentally changed the NBA by making it OK for superstars to team up via free agency.

Of course he should have beat the Mavs in 2011 but you can't then give him credit belatedly for losing to the superteam Warriors because he's the one who set the precedent for that to happen in the first place.
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Not giving him credit for losing to those warriors, but it's ridiculous to blame him for not beating them either. The second time around he didn't even have Kyrie, put up the best individual game playoff performance since MJ vs Celtics and lost because HIS TEAMMATE FORGOT THE DAMN SCORE.
charlton66 said:
That goes back to my point earlier. He tried to make "superteams," he's just not very good at it. He saw the Lakers as his best option to win a lot more. If it wasn't for COVID, I'm not sure he even wins a 4th.
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He chose the Lakers because he wanted to be in LA, not because the Lakers were poised to build a superteam around him. We could have, and tried to, but there were teams much better set up for that than us were he wouldn't even have to basically waste a year(we *could not* give him a competitive team in year 1)

We're gonna lose this series by a combined margin of <20 points and get swept, like last season. I was wrong about exhaustion last year, we just don't have the talent and matchups to compete, either on the floor or the bench(Hamm vs Malone is b-a-d)
 
I expect a lot of backtracking after the Suns convincingly beat the Wolves. Not only people are jinxing the Wolves, they are also fueling the Suns.
 
JPRouve said:
I expect a lot of backtracking after the Suns convincingly beat the Wolves. Not only people are jinxing the Wolves, they are also fueling the Suns.
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I think you're right, the Suns will win game 3, but they might not. Be positive.

Just to try and make you feel a little better about your chances, 93% of teams taking a 2-0 lead win the series.

Good luck.

Sorry @elmo
 
charlton66 said:
I think you're right, the Suns will win game 3, but they might not. Be positive.

Just to try and make you feel a little better about your chances, 93% of teams taking a 2-0 lead win the series.

Good luck.

Sorry @elmo
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I’ve no expectations left for the Suns this season. It’s a very flawed team with motivational issues, I prefer the bubble Suns over this iteration.

Once the Suns are out, I’ll be jumping on the Jokic bandwagon again. He’s making basketball fun to watch, can’t say the same about watching the Suns this season :lol:
 
elmo said:
I’ve no expectations left for the Suns this season. It’s a very flawed team with motivational issues, I prefer the bubble Suns over this iteration.

Once the Suns are out, I’ll be jumping on the Jokic bandwagon again. He’s making basketball fun to watch, can’t say the same about watching the Suns this season :lol:
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I really thought the Suns were going to win it all back in 2021, especially when they took the 2-0 lead. Unfortunately, they were one of the 7% of teams who couldn't close it out.

I liked that team better too.

EDIT: Not really thought about who I want to win it all. I suppose I'd like to see some new blood. It would have been the Wolves or the Thunder, but I think SGA is a bit of a dick, so it's the Wolves for me.
 
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charlton66 said:
I really thought the Suns were going to win it all back in 2021, especially when they took the 2-0 lead. Unfortunately, they were one of the 7% of teams who couldn't close it out.

I liked that team better too.

EDIT: Not really thought about who I want to win it all. I suppose I'd like to see some new blood. It would have been the Wolves or the Thunder, but I think SGA is a bit of a dick, so it's the Wolves for me.
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Refs fecked us over that year. Giannis was a human wrecking ball and would just get free throws despite travelling and fouling all series while Ayton would be blown for any minor contact.

I can’t say the Wolves out of principle because feck any team that kicks us out of the playoffs. But yeah, I wouldn’t mind them winning actually.
 
Rarely seen such a good addition to a team who is building a championship core as Aaron Gordon. The man is pretty much a deciding factor in many of these games.
 
Jim Beam said:
Rarely seen such a good addition to a team who is building a championship core as Aaron Gordon. The man is pretty much a deciding factor in many of these games.
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I was so upset when they got him. Under Rosas he was known as a target for the Wolves and he was a perfect fit for Finch.
 
Jim Beam said:
Rarely seen such a good addition to a team who is building a championship core as Aaron Gordon. The man is pretty much a deciding factor in many of these games.
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if Gordon is arguably your 4th choice you have a damn good team
 
This Mavs game is pretty weird, Right now Kyrie and Luka are 14-40 and they're up by 15.
 
charlton66 said:
I think you're right, the Suns will win game 3, but they might not. Be positive.

Just to try and make you feel a little better about your chances, 93% of teams taking a 2-0 lead win the series.

Good luck.

Sorry @elmo
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Positivity rules. 3-0.
 
You have to feel for that gum flopper Booker (not), what an actual clown overall, at least he has a skin in CoD lul. Also shit going great for KD and his i just want to hoop view towards basketball.
 
I still struggle to understand the rational behind gutting a starting lineup made of Paul, Booker, Bridges, Crowder and Ayton especially when you have picks. In an alternate world I wonder how they would have done if they went with Conley, Booker, Bridges, Crowder and Gobert.
 
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