Moby
Dick
He's already comfortably ahead with a multitude of reasons.If Steph wins another ring this season, he will clearly be ahead of KD.
He's already comfortably ahead with a multitude of reasons.If Steph wins another ring this season, he will clearly be ahead of KD.
It wasn't exactly a toss-up. Durant won 7 votes compared to Curry getting 4.The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.
As far as I can tell at least one of the FMVP's Durant got was essentially a toss-up and Curry would have been equally deserving. He also should have won the FMVP that went to Iggy. @Charlie Foley and @charlton66 can probably speak to that better than I can though. But any FMVP in the Durant-Warriors years are not that impressive IMO. Wouldn't have matter if Steph had won them. They were ridiculously superior talent-wise it wasn't a fair contest.
When you look at the top10-20 players you have pretty much everyone who led their teams to dynasties or at least multiple rings as comfortably the most important player and the one the team is built around. Warriors was, is and always be Steph's team and built around his qualities, outside of joining that team and playing under what was already one of the greatest teams ever (it's telling when your teammate in public says they didn't need you to win...) there's no other achievement in his CV.Tarnished in what sense?
100%. A lot of players have a lot of awards, wins and great legacies but Curry's legacy is also shared by very, very few in the history of the sport. In a decade or two he will be remembered as the father of this transformation and rightly so.I think Curry does not need any individual/traditional award, really… in that he was more, that is the leader and the most inspired interpeter of a paradigm shift in the game as a whole, namely the 3-point extremisation. The “Splash Brothers” (Curry + Thompson) theoretical contribution easily makes them top 5 all time in the history of the game.
The story goes that in 2015, the finals voters who thought a Warriors player should win couldn't decide between Iggy and Steph but there were also a number of voters who wanted to give it to LeBron even though his team had lost. Supposedly, all the voters who were going to vote for Steph switched to Iggy to stop LeBron winning, so he got 7 votes and Steph got none. I think the final vote tally was 7-4 for Iggy over LeBron.The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.
As far as I can tell at least one of the FMVP's Durant got was essentially a toss-up and Curry would have been equally deserving. He also should have won the FMVP that went to Iggy. @Charlie Foley and @charlton66 can probably speak to that better than I can though. But any FMVP in the Durant-Warriors years are not that impressive IMO. Wouldn't have matter if Steph had won them. They were ridiculously superior talent-wise it wasn't a fair contest.
Because the people who picks the FMVP are idiots.Then why couldn't Steph Curry get a FMVP against that apparently useless Cavs team (who made it to 4 straight finals)?
(I don't say this to put down Curry, just highlight the inconsistency in your post in downplaying that Cavs team)
Tarnished in what sense?
Warrior win or not, Durant still goes down as one of the best SFs we have ever seen. MVP, multiple clutch performances in the playoffs (for OKC, Warriors, Nets), and 2 rings. And regardless of what he does from right now, he's not passing LeBron. I doubt he can catch Bird. Otherwise he is clear of the rest. So what changes in his resume if the Warriors win out? He becomes worse than Baylor or Pippen? Or people on the internet rate him less?
The story goes that in 2015, the finals voters who thought a Warriors player should win couldn't decide between Iggy and Steph but there were also a number of voters who wanted to give it to LeBron even though his team had lost. Supposedly, all the voters who were going to vote for Steph switched to Iggy to stop LeBron winning, so he got 7 votes and Steph got none. I think the final vote tally was 7-4 for Iggy over LeBron.
In 2018, the finals MVP was also close. In all four games Durant was pretty good. Steph on the other hand probably outplayed him in three of the four games but had an absolute stinker in the other. I think the vote count finished either 7-4 or 6-5 for KD. Can't remember exactly.
The general consensus after game 2 was that Steph was odds on favorite to win fmvp. The bookies certainly thought so and also had him odds on. In game 3 he was poor and Durant probably had his best game. In game 4, Steph was once again better. The award could have gone either way.Steph outperformed Durant in the first and fourth match. He was also very good in the second match, and had an absolute stinker in the fourth match.
Durant outperformed Steph in the second match, was quite good in the first match, was very good and had a triple-double in the fourth match, and had a historic game in the third one.
The voting went 7-4 in favor of KD.
Stat-wise and re-watching the games, KD was by far the better player. Just that Steph was so good on the fourth match that made some people think that he deserves the award. If matches 3 and 4 were swapped, for example, no one would have been claiming that Steph should have won it.
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With regards to the 2015 finals, are the 11 voters actually allowed to speak to each other and do tactical voting?
The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.
Because the people who picks the FMVP are idiots.
fecking Igoudala getting FMVP over Steph ffs.
Steph outplayed KD one year in the Finals as well except for one bad game but they awarded it to KD instead.
Iggy winning it was a farce. Saying that, Dubs outscored Cavs by 50 something points when Iggy was playing, and got outscored by 30 or so points when he was not playing. Also, LeBron's shooting went from mid fourties when Iggy was out, to high thirties when Iggy was in. So, he didn't stop LeBron (no one can stop peak LeBron), but he made him less efficient, and Dubs played much better when Iggy was playing.The general consensus after game 2 was that Steph was odds on favorite to win fmvp. The bookies certainly thought so and also had him odds on. In game 3 he was poor and Durant probably had his best game. In game 4, Steph was once again better. The award could have gone either way.
2015 was a joke. The irony was that Iggy got the award for stopping LeBron which he really didn't and then of course Steph finished with no votes because of the collusion. I don't know if people remember this but Iggy was rarely in the game at the end because Steve Kerr had to keep taking him out because the Cavs kept deliberately fouling him. I think he finished somewhere around 35% from the free throw line for the series or something ridiculous like that. All that being said, love Iggy and even though IMLTHO he didn't deserve the award he did play a great series.
Durant averaged 28.8 points, compared to Steph's 27.5.Steph outplayed KD one year in the Finals as well except for one bad game but they awarded it to KD instead.
Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.Durant averaged 28.8 points, compared to Steph's 27.5.
Durant averaged 10.8 rebounds compared to Steph's 6.
Durant averaged 7.5 assists compared to Steph's 6.8.
Durant averaged 0.8 steals compared to Stephs's 1.5
Durant averaged 2.3 blocks compared to Steph's 0.8.
Durant shot 52.6% compared to Steph shooting 40.2% from the field (Steph was better on free throw line though, 100% vs 96.3%).
In total, Durant scored 115 points from 76 shots. Steph scored 110 points, from 92 shots.
Durant went to the free-throw line 27 times, converting 26 of them. Steph went 14 times, converting them all.
Durant had in total 9 turnovers, Steph had 11.
Durant averaged a ± of 21.5, Steph averaged a ± of 11.8.
At the end of the day, Durant scored more, from far fewer shots, went more to the free-throw line and was as efficient, made more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, had fewer turnovers, and averaged double the ±, despite playing on Steph's team. Yet, Steph outplayed Durant apparently, and people who voted KD were idiots.
Something not matching up.
Sure.Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.
They're probably on basketball reference. If I remember rightly the site usually gives the stats on a per game basis and also a series basis. Just type in "warriors v cavs 2015 finals stats" and you should be golden.Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.
You keep doing this, quoting stats at me and telling me they prove a player was better. KD was more efficient because Steph kept getting double teamed and blitzed. The Cavs defended him in the exact same way as they did prior to KD getting there. If you're getting open shots all the time, of course you're going to be more efficient.Sure.
Steph: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Stephen Curry averaged 27.5 points,what you're looking for?
KD: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kevin-durant-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Kevin Durant averaged 28.8 points,what you're looking for?
Steph was better in the first and fourth game, although KD was pretty good in those 2 games. In the second game though, KD was better. Sure, Steph scored 7 more points (33 vs 26), but he also took 12 more shots (26 vs 14). Essentially KD went 10 from 14, while Steph went 11 from 26. That is much better by KD (who also lead in most of the other stats).
Let's pretend that KD is Giannis and teams just leave him shoot from the field, and you then have an argument. Back on reality, he is one of the best shooters ever, and they were trying to stop him as much as they can. Every time Dubs were in trouble, they were passing the ball to him, cause he was their best player, and can make his own shots better than any other player in the league (or at least this was the case, until he faced Celtics).You keep doing this, quoting stats at me and telling me they prove a player was better. KD was more efficient because Steph kept getting double teamed and blitzed. The Cavs defended him in the exact same way as they did prior to KD getting there. If you're getting open shots all the time, of course you're going to be more efficient.
No you quoted a bunch of stats prior to the post with the statmuse url.Let's pretend that KD is Giannis and teams just leave him shoot from the field, and you then have an argument. Back on reality, he is one of the best shooters ever, and they were trying to stop him as much as they can. Every time Dubs were in trouble, they were passing the ball to him, cause he was their best player, and can make his own shots better than any other player in the league (or at least this was the case, until he faced Celtics).
I watched the games (several times) and I think that KD was better. Stats are overwhelmingly in favor of KD. And voters voted KD.
Yet, Steph was better
NB: I also quoted stats to the poster who asked me to.
Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.No you quoted a bunch of stats prior to the post with the statmuse url.
In all honesty, I was leaning towards Durant at the time and from memory actually posted that on here. The original point though was that Steph had never won a finals MVP and the answer was that he quite easily could have won both in 2015 and 2018 and that is still true.
Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.
Once again you're quoting numbers at me. I'm not going to say as @elmo did that the voters are idiots, but it appears they did have an ulterior motive as to why Steph got 0 votes in 2015.Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.
For what is worth, I think that Steph deserved it more than Iggy, but then, I think that LeBron should have won it. He was far and away the best player in that series, and so the half-century tradition of fMVP going to the winner should have ended there.You can’t seriously use box stats in one season and not in others. I know that’s what the voters did but that’s besides the point.
The guy with 35.8/13.3/8.8, obviouly.Once again you're quoting numbers at me. I'm not going to say as @elmo did that the voters are idiots, but it appears they did have an ulterior motive as to why Steph got 0 votes in 2015.
....and since it appears you love your stats; in 2015 Steph was 26.0/5.3/6.8 from the field, Iggy was 16.3/5.8/4.0. When you look at that based on the almighty statistics, who do you think should have won?
Thanks, I’ll look at those individual game links later.Sure.
Steph: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Stephen Curry averaged 27.5 points,what you're looking for?
KD: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kevin-durant-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Kevin Durant averaged 28.8 points,what you're looking for?
Steph was better in the first and fourth game, although KD was pretty good in those 2 games. In the second game though, KD was better. Sure, Steph scored 7 more points (33 vs 26), but he also took 12 more shots (26 vs 14). Essentially KD went 10 from 14, while Steph went 11 from 26. That is much better by KD (who also lead in most of the other stats).
Steph got double-teamed, but KD gets double-teamed as much as him. Essentially KD to Steph was similar to Shaq with Kobe. 1A and 1B but one clearly better.
As good as KD was Dubs didn't need him at all. They only lost the 2016 series because of Draymond being a moron. If he plays Game 5 that series is done there. And they only needed someone better than Barnes and there were plenty of decent options there. Other than that KD was just a luxury insurance policy in case Steph went off, nothing more.Bottom line in all this, KD needed the Dubs and Steph far more than the Dubs and Steph needed KD.
Green called Durant a “bitch” multiple times, sources said. In a summarized version, sources said Green shouted, “You’re a bitch and you know you’re a bitch.” The rhetoric, sources said, continued even when Kerr attempted to direct the team’s attention to his whiteboard.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/11/1...nt-we-dont-need-you-we-won-without-you-leave/Green blurted to Durant something along the lines of, “We don’t need you. We won without you. Leave,” sources said.
All Durant had to do was to sign that contract, and Green would have been traded despite him being a drafted player.Never seen a so called "Most valuable player" being asked to feck off like this.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/11/1...nt-we-dont-need-you-we-won-without-you-leave/
Good thing he decided to stop riding on Steph's success and went back to failing on his own teamsAll Durant had to do was to sign that contract, and Green would have been traded despite him being a drafted player.
Love scones. Pronounced like "bones" and not "cons" of course (always got to have some controversy in my posts).I hear scones are back in fashion
If there is no let down then they probably should. However, I think keeping the same intensity when you're up 3-0 is hard. I think there's only been 1 sweep these entire playoffs. @Revan if you want to remind me again who that was.Folks… live ahead… will Mavs win tonight??
The law of averages says yesFolks… live ahead… will Mavs win tonight??