NBA 2021-2022

Finally, there it is. Both The Athletic and Zach Lowe reporting that Blazers will try to move their 7th pick and Jerami Grant is a prime target as they try to put together a team that is ready to win now around Lillard. Please do that so I can surrender all hope. :lol:
 
Sarni said:
Finally, there it is. Both The Athletic and Zach Lowe reporting that Blazers will try to move their 7th pick and Jerami Grant is a prime target as they try to put together a team that is ready to win now around Lillard. Please do that so I can surrender all hope. :lol:
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You've said it yourself. As long as the Blazers continue to build around Dame as their centre piece they're never going to win a chip. He's a great number 2, but as "the guy" he's not good enough to carry a team all the way. Personally, I think you've got to trade him for as many picks as you can get, spend a couple of years in playoff wilderness and then hopefully hit it big in the draft as you build for the future.
 
Sarni said:
Finally, there it is. Both The Athletic and Zach Lowe reporting that Blazers will try to move their 7th pick and Jerami Grant is a prime target as they try to put together a team that is ready to win now around Lillard. Please do that so I can surrender all hope. :lol:
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You could have a much cheaper Vanderbilt for that pick. :angel:
 
Can't wait until the Warriors pull it off, and somehow Steph, who wins a finals MVP in the process, still ends up miles behind Kobe on loads of 'best ever' lists.

I don't know what a dude who would of won 4 titles and has a legacy that essentially changed the game with endless records has to do to even make the top 10 for a fair few. Forget the fact he's potentially top 5(like well, in the open debate for actual, 5th), even now.

I mean, they could fluff it of course. But you know.
 
Zen said:
Can't wait until the Warriors pull it off, and somehow Steph, who wins a finals MVP in the process, still ends up miles behind Kobe on loads of 'best ever' lists.

I don't know what a dude who would of won 4 titles and has a legacy that essentially changed the game with endless records has to do to even make the top 10 for a fair few. Forget the fact he's potentially top 5(like well, in the open debate for actual, 5th), even now.

I mean, they could fluff it of course. But you know.
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Here's my 10 cents.

I think there are two main reasons he gets ranked where he's at. Number one is Steph himself. He's forever telling you how great his team mates are, he never blows his own horn at all. LeBron has "chosen 1" and "king James" tattooed on his body for God's sake. That's just not Steph's style. In this latest series he led the team in points and rebounds in game 1 and points and assists in games 2 and 3. But all you hear from Steph was how great Kevon Looney was in game 2 and Andrew Wiggins last night. That is the culture that he instills in the Warriors - everybody counts. Secondly, I also think the sports media discriminate against him due to his size.

Personally, if he wins another Championship and a finals MVP the only players I would categorically put in front of him are MJ, LeBron, Kareem and possibly Bill Russell. There are a number of players in the history of the NBA who could probably beat him one on one, have better stats and are more dominant individually, but basketball is a team game and apart from the names above I don't think there's anybody who improves a team more than he does. He just makes everyone better.
 
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charlton66 said:
Personally, if he wins another Championship and a finals MVP the only players I would categorically put in front of him are MJ, LeBron, Kareem and possibly Bill Russell.
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I love Curry! But I love Magic more! The showtime Lakers were something else.

And of course there is Bird. And Chamberlain. And Duncan.

Competition for top ten is fierce. No disrespect to Steph, but I think he is probably top 10, not top 5.

( He has time to win 2 or 3 more championships and get higher! )

Edit: I googled "best nba players of all time" and here is what I got... 12th place is not bad...

https://www.complex.com/sports/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked
 
JPRouve said:
I didn't thought that he would answer that quickly after the meeting with Glen Taylor. Hopefully he does very well.
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Call me surprised but congratz, that offer he got is kinda crazy to declined, also for sure freaking Kroenkes wont match it, doubt they would match any offer, cheap feckers.
 
frostbite said:
I love Curry! But I love Magic more! The showtime Lakers were something else.

And of course there is Bird. And Chamberlain. And Duncan.

Competition for top ten is fierce. No disrespect to Steph, but I think he is probably top 10, not top 5.

( He has time to win 2 or 3 more championships and get higher! )

Edit: I googled "best nba players of all time" and here is what I got... 12th place is not bad...

https://www.complex.com/sports/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked
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I've seen him as high as 10th and as low as 15th, but him moving up the all time ladder is predicated on him winning a finals MVP and another chip. Right how I'd have him somewhere around 10-12.
 
SinNombre said:
These conference finals have been garbage so far. One good game in 7?
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I thought game 2 Dubs/Mavs was a great game and game 3 had its moments. In the East, game 3, especially 2nd half with the Boston comeback and the Heat holding on was a doozy.

1,2 and 4 in the East were pretty bad though.
 
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Sarni said:
Finally, there it is. Both The Athletic and Zach Lowe reporting that Blazers will try to move their 7th pick and Jerami Grant is a prime target as they try to put together a team that is ready to win now around Lillard. Please do that so I can surrender all hope. :lol:
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They'll offer that for Ayton sign and trade probably.
 
elmo said:
They'll offer that for Ayton sign and trade probably.
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Free agency occurs well after draft so it’s not that practical. I think the idea is to also try for Ayton and Bridges in free agency if they still have cap space (which they won’t if they manage to get their prime target amazing Jerami Grant superstar).
 
Zen said:
Can't wait until the Warriors pull it off, and somehow Steph, who wins a finals MVP in the process, still ends up miles behind Kobe on loads of 'best ever' lists.

I don't know what a dude who would of won 4 titles and has a legacy that essentially changed the game with endless records has to do to even make the top 10 for a fair few. Forget the fact he's potentially top 5(like well, in the open debate for actual, 5th), even now.

I mean, they could fluff it of course. But you know.
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Kobe won 5 titles and 2 fMVPs. He also was the best player in the league for a few seasons, something that Steph never was.

Of course that Kobe is gonna end higher in the lists than Steph, I don’t think that anyone can debate this. The only question is Steph vs Durant which seems a bit mixed, but with Durant being ahead in most lists (which will change if Steph wins this).

Players that are unquestionably ahead of him at this stage: Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Bird. That is 10 players right there.

Then you have Durant and Hakeem who were arguably better, Giannis who will probably finish higher in a few years and so on. That’s the thing, I think that for both him and Durant, the top 10 is very hard to be achieved and if Giannis and Luka continue like this, they might end outside of top 15 too.
 
The league always needed one true alpha. After Jordan it was Kobe until 2010, then LeBron until (imo) Giannis took over when the Bucks won it right after LeBron with the Lakers.

Curry played from the end of the Kobe era through the LeBron era into a new era full of young superstars but he's arguably never been THAT DUDE, even when his team won 73 games. I fully agree that he has changed the game, and influence on the game is important in legacy. He also has the rings and trophies to back up his case. But to crack the top 10 you need to be almost superhuman at this point, people have their opinion formed and it will take a lot for them to change it. I was in the "Kobe > LeBron" camp as well for a long time until it was impossible to deny anymore.

I think he's in Durant range, somewhere 10-20.
 
Hate the person who brought this conversation up again finally when I was actually enjoying NBA again
 


If I did that on live TV, I would move to Antarctica. :lol:
 
Oh god it's going to be Warriors Celtics isn't it
 
If Steph wins another ring this season, he will clearly be ahead of KD.

A 5th win, and the longevity to go with it, would put him on par with Kobe and Duncan.

In terms of impact on the game, he is almost certainly top 5 right now.
 
SinNombre said:
If Steph wins another ring this season, he will clearly be ahead of KD.

A 5th win, and the longevity to go with it, would put him on par with Kobe and Duncan.

In terms of impact on the game, he is almost certainly top 5 right now.
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Already is. This forthcoming title not only increases Curry's legacy but it diminishes Durant's. They won before him. They won after him. Just further shows that they didn't need him.
 
ZDwyr said:
Already is. This forthcoming title not only increases Curry's legacy but it diminishes Durant's. They won before him. They won after him. Just further shows that they didn't need him.
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It doesn't diminish Durant's legacy. He still put in those FMVP performances. Draymond still cried in the car and begged for Durant to join them.

But yes, they didn't need Durant. They needed anyone better than Harrison Barnes at the 3.
 
adexkola said:
It doesn't diminish Durant's legacy. He still put in those FMVP performances. Draymond still cried in the car and begged for Durant to join them.

But yes, they didn't need Durant. They needed anyone better than Harrison Barnes at the 3.
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Far less impressive considering the talent disparity between his team and those Cav teams.
 
adexkola said:
It doesn't diminish Durant's legacy. He still put in those FMVP performances. Draymond still cried in the car and begged for Durant to join them.

But yes, they didn't need Durant. They needed anyone better than Harrison Barnes at the 3.
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His legacy is tarnished by the fact he hasn't won a ring without the Warriors yet. He needed them, they didn't really need him.

If he wins one on his own while putting up great performances that would be a big plus for his legacy.
 
With KD, looking clueless when swarmed by the Celtics is also playing a role in diminishing his legacy.

His fmvp’s came when the Cavs continued to double team Steph, as they did prior to him joining the Warriors.
 
I don't know if Durant's legacy is tarnished by the fact he hasn't won a ring without the Warriors. He was the only reason OKC were title contenders almost every year, he then won with the Warriors but ended his time in California with a pretty big injury that put him out for more than a year. He has now played two seasons with the Nets in a team that is not fit for purpose, if people want an example of that kind of team, they can just look at the Warriors without two of Thompson, Green or Curry, they were one of the worst team in the league.
 
Achievements outside (where they are quite even), you can just watch basketball, especially when they played together, to know that Durant was the better player.

Also, Steph is one of the very few 15 players * who wasn't even the best player on HIS team where they won most of the titles. It was Steph's team, but Durant was clearly the best player there.

Personally, I have KD at 11th and Steph at 12th or 13th. Of course, this can change in the future, but neither of them is getting better or younger.

* Kareem (cause of Magic) is the other.
 
ZDwyr said:
Far less impressive considering the talent disparity between his team and those Cav teams.
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Then why couldn't Steph Curry get a FMVP against that apparently useless Cavs team (who made it to 4 straight finals)?

(I don't say this to put down Curry, just highlight the inconsistency in your post in downplaying that Cavs team)

RobinLFC said:
His legacy is tarnished by the fact he hasn't won a ring without the Warriors yet. He needed them, they didn't really need him.

If he wins one on his own while putting up great performances that would be a big plus for his legacy.
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Tarnished in what sense?

Warrior win or not, Durant still goes down as one of the best SFs we have ever seen. MVP, multiple clutch performances in the playoffs (for OKC, Warriors, Nets), and 2 rings. And regardless of what he does from right now, he's not passing LeBron. I doubt he can catch Bird. Otherwise he is clear of the rest. So what changes in his resume if the Warriors win out? He becomes worse than Baylor or Pippen? Or people on the internet rate him less?
 
adexkola said:
Tarnished in what sense?
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I was more talking about him not winning a ring without the Warriors (while the Warriors core can clearly win without him). Maybe shouldn't have said tarnished but rather, "not enhanced". A Warriors chip right now won't see Durant fall down the ranks for me, but a Durant chip in Brooklyn could see him get even higher up the board. It would put the narrative to bed that he couldn't get it done without joining the current NBA champions. In the same sense e.g. Paul's and Harden's legacies will be tarnished by being playoff chokers. Of course to a much lesser extent because talent and ability wise Durant is arguably top 10 all-time, but the narrative doesn't reflect that.
 
adexkola said:
Then why couldn't Steph Curry get a FMVP against that apparently useless Cavs team (who made it to 4 straight finals)?

(I don't say this to put down Curry, just highlight the inconsistency in your post in downplaying that Cavs team)



Tarnished in what sense?

Warrior win or not, Durant still goes down as one of the best SFs we have ever seen. MVP, multiple clutch performances in the playoffs (for OKC, Warriors, Nets), and 2 rings. And regardless of what he does from right now, he's not passing LeBron. I doubt he can catch Bird. Otherwise he is clear of the rest. So what changes in his resume if the Warriors win out? He becomes worse than Baylor or Pippen? Or people on the internet rate him less?
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Aye.

If he had stayed at the Warriors, and won another 2-3 rings with another 1-2 fMVPs, then he probably would have surpassed Bird, but now this looks extremely unlikely to happen. Even if he wins another ring with fMVP (which should be possible), he will likely still end as 'only' the third greatest small forward. Which he already is.

I don't think that there was any chance for him to ever surpass LeBron. Except for shooting, LeBron was better at everything (passing, rebounding, defense, playmaking).
 
Revan said:
Kobe won 5 titles and 2 fMVPs. He also was the best player in the league for a few seasons, something that Steph never was.

Of course that Kobe is gonna end higher in the lists than Steph, I don’t think that anyone can debate this. The only question is Steph vs Durant which seems a bit mixed, but with Durant being ahead in most lists (which will change if Steph wins this).

Players that are unquestionably ahead of him at this stage: Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Bird. That is 10 players right there.

Then you have Durant and Hakeem who were arguably better, Giannis who will probably finish higher in a few years and so on. That’s the thing, I think that for both him and Durant, the top 10 is very hard to be achieved and if Giannis and Luka continue like this, they might end outside of top 15 too.
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I don't, for me, go as far back as pre-1980, just not enough time in my life to chase it and stats would suggest it wasn't as deep of a league in the slightest anyway, so I tend to ignore Bill-Russell, so if they are certified, just +2 to any rank you ever see me do after the obvious 4 (Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Kareem). For what it's worth I have Bird 5.... and I'll probably be putting Curry at 6 in a months time - none of the others competing for that spot have had his impact.

I'm also not far off having Giannis in the top 10 already either, although he's clearly still behind KD for the time being.... sometimes you've gotta give up your youth and unfortunately, it likely means at some point, Timmy, Shaq and possibly Kobe aren't gonna be single figure players. Rings are built different - just saying 'he won 5 holds little weight to me'
 
Zen said:
I don't, for me, go as far back as pre-1980, just not enough time in my life to chase it and stats would suggest it wasn't as deep of a league in the slightest anyway, so I tend to ignore Bill-Russell, so if they are certified, just +2 to any rank you ever see me do after the obvious 4 (Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Kareem). For what it's worth I have Bird 5.... and I'll probably be putting Curry at 6 in a months time - none of the others competing for that spot have had his impact.

I'm also not far off having Giannis in the top 10 already either, although he's clearly still behind KD for the time being.... sometimes you've gotta give up your youth and unfortunately, it likely means at some point, Timmy, Shaq and possibly Kobe aren't gonna be single figure players. Rings are built different - just saying 'he won 5 holds little weight to me'
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Are you a Dubs fan?

First time I have seen someone putting Steph above Shaq/Duncan/Kobe.
 
Well you haven't seen it... yet. :lol:

And no I'm not, Bulls, but that's irrelevant. I'm not putting Pippen top 20/30 either.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't know if Durant's legacy is tarnished by the fact he hasn't won a ring without the Warriors. He was the only reason OKC were title contenders almost every year, he then won with the Warriors but ended his time in California with a pretty big injury that put him out for more than a year. He has now played two seasons with the Nets in a team that is not fit for purpose, if people want an example of that kind of team, they can just look at the Warriors without two of Thompson, Green or Curry, they were one of the worst team in the league.
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The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.

adexkola said:
Then why couldn't Steph Curry get a FMVP against that apparently useless Cavs team (who made it to 4 straight finals)?

(I don't say this to put down Curry, just highlight the inconsistency in your post in downplaying that Cavs team)
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As far as I can tell at least one of the FMVP's Durant got was essentially a toss-up and Curry would have been equally deserving. He also should have won the FMVP that went to Iggy. @Charlie Foley and @charlton66 can probably speak to that better than I can though. But any FMVP in the Durant-Warriors years are not that impressive IMO. Wouldn't have matter if Steph had won them. They were ridiculously superior talent-wise it wasn't a fair contest.
 
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