You said he had only been good in his last 4 games, someone then told you he had been great for a couple months to which you answered: "A few months my arse."
Nani will reignite our charge to the title
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You said he had only been good in his last 4 games, someone then told you he had been great for a couple months to which you answered: "A few months my arse."
Are we now taking the Redcafe MotM threads as some kind of gospel?
Nanners vs Bayern
He is always one of the hardest working players on the pitch.
Say about him what you want, call him melodramatic, call him inconsistent or someone making the wrong decisions, that all is a matter of opinion and partly true in his young carreer for us this far, but he never ever lacked commitment!
It's about as good an indicator of the lad's performances as you're going to find.
With about 100-200 people voting for each match, you're going to get a pretty good picture of who stood out.
I stand by that. He hasn't been consistently performing for the last few months.
As I said, I thought he was quite poor against Milan. He pulled off a brilliant assist and suddenly everyone thought he had a great game. It's the same way that goal-scorers inevitably end up getting loads of MOTM votes, no matter how badly they perform.
I also thought he wasn't great against Fulham. That means we go back to the beginning of February for his next really good performance. Hence I think he's been really good for the last 4 or 5 games, not the last few months (which, to me, implies being consistently good througout that period of time).
As per my previous post he's blown hot and cold since the turn of the year - as he has done throughout his United career - but the hot spells have been "hotter" and more prolonged and the cold spells less "cold". All of which means I'm really pleased with his progress and I do admit I'm surprised (and delighted) at just how well he's played in some really big games. What I don't agree with, however, is the implication that he's been consistently excellent throughout 2010. Because he hasn't.
The confidence he has at 1:50ish is crazy! On his on touch line and toying with Robben.
None of our players bar Rooney have been consistently excellent.
But that doesn't mean it's ludicrous to say Nani's had an excellent 2010 - he's been our 2nd best player after Rooney since the turn of the year.
No winger will ever be excellent every single game - even Messi had a couple average games some weeks back.
agreed
Wingers are traditionally inconsistent. They have a tendency to blow hot and cold.
Messi and Ronaldo are not what you call line hugging wingers.
Messi and Ronaldo are not what you call line hugging wingers.
See I wouldn't agree with that.
I think Nani has been very good but he's been inconsistent (yes, all players are inconistent but he's been more inconsistent than most)
If I had to choose the best players in 2010 I would go for Rooney, Van der Sar and Vidic, with Nani and Valencia at about the same level behind them.
EDIT: And Park. Forgot about Park. He's been similarly inconistent to Nani but when he was good he was excellent.
Valencia has been more consistent than Nani, while not achieving quite the same heights. It might also be because his style is less spectacular but often a little more productive.
I think you're way off the mark with Vidic and VDS - they haven't had nearly as many good games as Valencia and Nani.
I think the last couple of matches stick to your mind rather than the entire 2010.
Vidic has missed games and even struck critisim a month ago for not playing.
Yeah, that's true.
Nani looked our best player by a margin against Bayern but, despite this, it was Valencia who created the better opportunities (which usually ended up finished off by Nani!).
You could be right.
I already admitted that I thought the Arsenal/City games were much more recent than they were. 2010 seems to be passing in a blur. I think it's to do with getting old.
Yeah I must say I'm a bit baffled by your choices.
Even if you don't agree with the MOTM-scores, it's still a very good indicator:
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/player-month-january-2010-a-284832/
1. Rooney 12 / 874
2. Nani 5.5 / 731
3. Valencia 5 / 245
4. Scholes 4 / 288
5. Evra 4 / 192
6. Kuszczak 3 / 89
7. Fletcher 2 / 130
8. Berbatov 2 / 59
9. Fabio 2 / 50
10. Carrick 1 / 131
Leeds U. 0-1 - Rooney 54 / Fabio 50 / Valencia 41
Birmingham C. 1-1 - Kuszczak 86 / Evra 81 / Valencia 25
Burnley 3-0 - Valencia 151 / Berbatov 54 / Nani & van der Sar 52
Manchester C. 1-2 - Rooney 101 / Evra 72 / Giggs 31
Hull C. 4-0 - Rooney 302 / Nani 281 / Scholes 99
Manchester C. 3-1 - Scholes 162 / Fletcher 115 / Nani 68
Arsenal 3-1 - Rooney 333 / Nani 330 / Carrick 95
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/player-month-february-2010-a-287591/
1. Rooney 8 / 544
2. Valencia 6 / 351
3. Carrick 6 / 231
4. Fletcher 5 / 359
5. Berbatov 4 / 254
6. Park 3 / 261
7. Nani 2 / 79
8. van der Sar 1 / 152
9. Scholes 1 / 79
10. Neville 0 / 39
Portsmouth 5-0 - Carrick 102 / Nani 77 / Rooney 69
Aston V. 1-1 - Carrick 98 / Fletcher 79 / Rooney 45
Milan 3-2 - Rooney 230 / Fletcher 152 / van der Sar 146
Everton 1-3 - Berbatov 124 / Valencia 65 / Fletcher 48
West Ham U. 3-0 - Rooney 142 / Valencia 112 / Scholes 65
Aston V. 2-1 - Park 246 / Valencia 165 / Berbatov 100
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/player-month-march-2010-a-290770/
1. Rooney 6 / 511
2. Park 5 / 376
3. Nani 5 / 344
4. Berbatov 4 / 434
5. Fletcher 4 / 412
6. Vidic 3 / 265
7. van der Sar 3 / 206
8. Scholes 3 / 157
9. Valencia 2 / 180
10. Neville 1 / 34
Wolverhampton W. 1-0 - Scholes 145 / Valencia 106 / Berbatov 82
Milan 4-0 - Park 225 / Rooney 170 / Fletcher 68
Fulham 3-0 - Rooney 239 / Berbatov 231 / Nani 81
Liverpool 2-1 - Fletcher 270 / Park 141 / Rooney 100
Bolton W. 4-0 - Vidic 211 / Nani 192 / Berbatov 121
B. Munich 1-2 - van der Sar 141 / Nani 44 / Neville 24
Player of the Month April
Chelsea 1-2 - Vidic 63, Ferdinand 53, Evra & Nani 27
Bayern 3-2 - Nani (GD hasn't counted yet)
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As you can see, Rooney, Nani and Valencia have been the standout performers if you look at the entire 2010. Where as the players you mentioned; VDS, Vidic and Park have only really stood out a couple times.
I'm sure you understand why - at a club like Manchester United - something would have to be seriously wrong for our defenders to regularly be nominated as man of the match.
This doesn't, of course, mean they haven't been amongst our best players.
In fact, that's probably the biggest flaw in using MOTM threads to decided on our best players. They're massively biased in favour of the players who create/score goals. As I said a few posts back, an eye-catching goal or assist will often get a player dozens of nominations despite a mediocre overall performance.
This doesn't, of course, mean they haven't been amongst our best players.
In fact, that's probably the biggest flaw in using MOTM threads to decided on our best players. They're massively biased in favour of the players who create/score goals. As I said a few posts back, an eye-catching goal or assist will often get a player dozens of nominations despite a mediocre overall performance.
I'd say Evra has also been very consistent all season most notably before Christmas.
Pity we've not had fit back ups to give him rest.
Pity we've not had fit back ups to give him rest.
Evra was brilliant in the first half of the season but seemed to hit a wall not long after Christmas. It;s a real shame that Fabio didn't get more games this season.
They rarely get nominated for MOTM because they are rarely our best players on the pitch because they are rarely called upon in the majority of the matches.
But that doesn't mean we should suddenly count their 2-3 good performances double, just because they haven't had as many opportunities to shine as our attacking players.
We can only judge what we see, and if we dissect every single game from 2010 then Nani and Valencia both come up on top by quite a stretch ahead of VDS and Vidic, as they've simply been among our best players in most of our games in 2010 - and if that's not an indicator of who's been the best player in 2010, then I don't know what is.
I think there's more to it than that. I've watched defenders and keepers put in absolutely superb performances for us and get completely overlooked by the vast majority of MOTM votes. I don't think this is just down to them not being called upon (because they always have something to do) so much as the fact we usually score a few goals and goal-scorers always feature heavily in those ratings.
If a defender is to get noticed by the goal-obssessed caftards we either need to score very few goals and/or spend most of the game on the back foot. Thankfully this only happens very rarely.
Don't even get me started on how hard it is for keepers to get some love. Look at the game against Bolton. VdS didn't put a foot wrong and made arguably the best save of the season, as well as at least one other top class stop, along with superb distribution and commmand of his area. A completely flawless display of goal-keeping. He didn't even make the top three.
Maybe as far as MOTM threads go he doesnt feel the love. But most of us on here know how important he is to us. You only need to post a thread saying "I think Foster is ready to step up and be our number one" to see what people think about VDS.
VDS came 4th against Bolton. He made two cracking saves, but Nani made two cracking assists and worked his butt off, Berbatov scored two goals and generally had a very good game, and then we have Vidic who (despite being a defender and us scoring a bunch of goals) got the recognition he deserved.
I'm not saying the MOTM system is flawless, but people are generally pretty good at picking the best players.
I think that says more about Foster than VdS.
Poor fecker was playing for our reserves last night and still managed at least one mystifyingly dreadful clearance, whilst under no pressure at all. He actually hurt his foot, he kicked the ground so hard.
Oh aye, I don't discount it's value and I definitely think it's a good way of assessing the relative performances of our more attacking players. Seeing as Nani is an attacking player, I'll accept your point that I was wrong in implying he'd only be good for 4 or 5 games. He's obviously been very good in a lot more games than that, going back further than I thought.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about it being a relatively ineffective way of picking out good performances from our defenders/keeper.
To an extent. I still think people value VDS. There are threads knocking about asking who is better out of him and Schmeiks. What higher praise could he have than that?
Oh I know. There has been a lot of love for steady Eddie this season.
This love hasn't translated into many (any?) places in the top three of the MOTM threads though, which was the main point I was making.
Wow!
I'm Nani's biggest fan and even I didn't realise that he played that well. Sensational performance!
True enough.
I dont waste my time with them (MOTM threads). When they come, Im too busy looking good.
Heh, I guess we have to, but it's interesting none the less, as I don't really think the defenders are being sold short, as there just happens to be 3 players who have stood out more than them in the games(and that is after all what a MOTM is about); who would you for example push out of the top 3 against Bolton to make room for VDS?
That's not agreeing to disagree.
I'd have probably voted:
1.VdS
2. Nani
3 = Berbatov/Vidic
There won't always be three stand-out performers IMO. That was a game where VdS was outstanding and Nani, berbatov and Vidic were all as good as each other and better than the rest.
I'm putting Nani second though, to try and get the "Nani hater" monkey off my back
It obviously always comes down to personal opinion, so there is no defnitive answer.
But I don't think VDS only came fourth because people tend to overlook keepers.
His 1 excellent save and 1 very good save were simply just compared to Nani's 2 excellent assists and general great play, Berbatov's two important goals and general good play and Vidic's terrific performance, where he had several excellent moments.
VDS then, rightly so in my opinion, came up short.
I think you underrate Vidic's performance by the way - Fergie wasn't far off when he called it the league's best individual defensive performance of the season.
He was shocking today.
Most of his corners didn't get past the first man, his crosses were poor, his general passing was poor and he gave away the ball too much. He should have crossed it at the end as well instead of doing another crap shot.
Not good enough today.
Most of his corners didn't get past the first man, his crosses were poor, his general passing was poor and he gave away the ball too much. He should have crossed it at the end as well instead of doing another crap shot.
Not good enough today.
His crossing was off alright. He made a massive effort though to be fair. He never stopped running. His distribution and shooting was very poor though.
He has a poor routine of trying to shoot at the end of his dribbles on the edge of the penalty.It's never even dangerous
Nani ignited our charge but it required the rest of the squad to stoke the fire.
Yeh I can't fault him for that, he did work hard, but pretty much every other part of his game lacked quality.
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