Murtough's 2nd Summer | How did he do?

[VP89]

Lets put things into context
--> Pressure to sell players who were on high wages and difficult to move
--> Key holes to fill in ST, CM, GK + ideally a CB too.
--> Hamstrung with FFP due to lack of sponsor renewals and overspends from previous summers (which is a problem he inherited more than anything else. Antony was overpaid but I can't really fault much else in his transfer business the summer prior).


The window will likely close with:

--> Onana replacing DDG
--> Mount in as the CM who was Ten Hag's first choice
--> Hojlund in as ST. Kane was 1st choice for Ten Hag but Murtough seemed to opt for avoiding a saga and distracting from other positions.
--> Amrabat in on deadline day through a loan with an option to make permanent which makes the deal low risk.
--> Regulon in as emergency cover for Luke Shaw.

--> SOLD Henderson for £20m
--> SOLD Telles for 4m
--> Movement still possible on Baily.
--> SOLD Kovar and Elanga for £7.7m and £15m respectively

ALMOST Flogged off Maguire for £30m, and that probably would have got in our CB, but I can understand United halting the deal after Maguire asked for a stupid pay-off.

For me all things considered I have that as a 7/10 given the holes he had to fill, parameters he worked under and the fact that he got 3 key signings through the door in a decent time frame with the others following through.

 

[El Jefe]

We're no closer to challenging than we were at the end of last season and have a worse squad than we did in 2021 when he took over in my opinion.

I'd rate it 6/10.

 

[VP89]

We're no closer to challenging than we were at the end of last season and have a worse squad than we did in 2021 when he took over in my opinion.

I'd rate it 6/10.

I find this a bit crazy, we've upgraded the GK department and the CF department whilst adding 2 midfielders to our roster.

Where do you think we are weaker now vs last season?

 

[Pexbo]

Ask again tomorrow

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

- Handling of Greenwood Situation (Awful)
- Failing to get £60m for Mctominay & Maguire (Awful)
- Overpaying for Hojlund by someway & prioritising an attacking centre mid (Awful)
- Selling academy players so cheap when we see countless others going for so much more, the young city lad that went for £45m has 0 PL goals and Elanga went for £15m and we celebrated it?
- Timing/ Overpaying and not concentrating on the biggest priorities

I don't want to point out "Improvement" on last year, we should have standards and they aren't being met at all.

 

[Redstain]

We're no closer to challenging than we were at the end of last season and have a worse squad than we did in 2021 when he took over in my opinion.

I'd rate it 6/10.

Agree to some extent the biggest issue for me with Murtough is the club's model is still reminiscent of what it was under Sir Alex. The overindulgence to cater to the manager with very minimal foresight from the director himself. Hypothetically If someone was to ask the director what the mission for the club is over the next five years and ask the manager the same question, you would likely galvanise more strategic detail coming from the manager and that is backwards.

Either way it's almost a guarantee that new ownership will consolidate reforming the hierarchy. Not due to any reason other than it being the absolute norm in business. I will be surprised if Murtough is still an employee come summer 24.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Any chance of a sneaky late loan deal for a forward or some sorts? Danny Ings anyone?

 

[El Jefe]

I find this a bit crazy, we've upgraded the GK department and the CF department whilst adding 2 midfielders to our roster.

Where do you think we are weaker now vs last season?

I said we are no closer to where we were last season.

Onana is an upgrade to DDG but what will this upgrade be worth in points if our defence hasn't improved and only having a marginal improvement up front.

When you factor in a potential decline in performance from Casemiro and Eriksen where is the big improvement.

Højlund is the wildcard from last sesson to this season. If he's a hit right out the gate then its a serious upgrade but realistically, I don't see him having that big of an impact in his first season.

2020/21 squad is stronger than last season and this season. So I stand by my point that Murtough has had two seasons in charge and not built a stronger squad.

 

[VP89]

I said we are no closer to where we were last season.

Onana is an upgrade to DDG but what will this upgrade be worth in points if our defence hasn't improved and only having a marginal improvement up front.

When you factor in a potential decline in performance from Casemiro and Eriksen where is the big improvement.

Højlund is the wildcard from last sesson to this season. If he's a hit right out the gate then its a serious upgrade but realistically, I don't see him having that big of an impact in his first season.

2020/21 squad is stronger than last season and this season. So I stand by my point that Murtough has had to seasons in charge and not built a stronger squad.

I think its clear we are closer.

Mount is an upgrade on Eriksen
Onana is an upgrade on DDG
Amrabat is an upgrade on Fred
Hojlund is an upgrade on Wehorst

Mainoo will be integrated further
Garnacho's second season to establish himself further

Etc.

 

[Member 109952]

I think its clear we are closer.

Mount is an upgrade on Eriksen
Onana is an upgrade on DDG
Amrabat is an upgrade on Fred
Hojlund is an upgrade on Wehorst

Mainoo will be integrated further
Garnacho's second season to establish himself further

Etc.

Mount inst an upgrade on Eriksen at all, just younger.
Onana is an upgrade yes
Amrabat over Fred remains to be seen.
A doormat would be more useful than Weghoust. It's debatable if Hojlund will have an impact or not.

I'd say only really Onana has definitely improved us.

 

[Roboc7]

I think the fact it gets called his window is completely inaccurate. I don’t think he is any more than a middle man, manager is still significantly more powerful, there is zero sign of any long term plan and no vision beyond here and now.

Overall if you look at what we’ve spent in last two summers, the wages we’ve dished out etc it’s not good and no signs of much improving.

 

[bosnian_red]

- Handling of Greenwood Situation (Awful)
- Failing to get £60m for Mctominay & Maguire (Awful)
- Overpaying for Hojlund by someway & prioritising an attacking centre mid (Awful)
- Selling academy players so cheap when we see countless others going for so much more, the young city lad that went for £45m has 0 PL goals and Elanga went for £15m and we celebrated it?
- Timing/ Overpaying and not concentrating on the biggest priorities

I don't want to point out "Improvement" on last year, we should have standards and they aren't being met at all.

Greenwood was not on him in the slightest, that is arnold. We accepted the offer for Maguire, he didn't want to leave. The offer was a lowball offer for McTominay, fair to hold on for closer to your price. Mount will be fine. Hojlund, we were desperate for a CF and for a profile like him, it doesn't matter much if it's 50m or 70m. Either way, he's either going to be a flop or a huge success. There's really no middle ground where he'd be a success at the lower end of a price between 40-75m but a flop at the higher end with the same performances. It was a case of just getting him in because we believe he can be a top CF, and were desperate to get one in. Elanga vs Palmer, there's this thing called talent and potential and what clubs believe in. Chelsea were in for Palmer because he is a very talented youngster with big potential. Elanga has had virtually no role this year and has severely underwhelmed every time he's played while also not being particularly highly rated beyond "average PL level". Timing was good, we got our main 3 targets in early before the season but had some injury issues now. Amrabat was the only other priority target and he was delayed due to FFP issues where we had to wait to sell some players. Our biggest priorities were focused on, with the exception that you could argue Amrabat should've been a priority earlier but it's a fine line between him and Mount in terms of what Ten Hag prioritized and wanted, and the good thing is we got both in.

 

[RonaldoVII]

It's clear we're crippled by the owners and FFP. I don't think the window is a bad one on whole.

 

[theballisround]

- Handling of Greenwood Situation (Awful)
- Failing to get £60m for Mctominay & Maguire (Awful)
- Overpaying for Hojlund by someway & prioritising an attacking centre mid (Awful)
- Selling academy players so cheap when we see countless others going for so much more, the young city lad that went for £45m has 0 PL goals and Elanga went for £15m and we celebrated it?
- Timing/ Overpaying and not concentrating on the biggest priorities

I don't want to point out "Improvement" on last year, we should have standards and they aren't being met at all.

This. We should first set the highest standards of improvement and then meet them.

Getting a few players in who look like an improvement on what we have/had isn't ground breaking at all.

Hopefully Mainoo and Garnacho have some fecking standout seasons and we can kick on.

To me it's a 5/10. The only established player that really improves anything is Onana.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

I think the fact it gets called his window is completely inaccurate. I don’t think he is any more than a middle man, manager is still significantly more powerful, there is zero sign of any long term plan and no vision beyond here and now.

Overall if you look at what we’ve spent in last two summers, the wages we’ve dished out etc it’s not good and no signs of much improving.

That’s literally nonsense. We didn’t sign a single player that wasn’t part of the long term plan, apart from the emergency left back which was forced.

 

[bosnian_red]

Been a very good window for me. We addressed our concerns, we did the main stuff in a timely matter and were hamstrung by FFP concerns but still managed to find a solution to get Amrabat in. Backup goalkeeper I never care about, Reguillon was an emergency situation that we did well to address in a pretty swift manner as a result of a shitty injury situation that only recently arose, and we did pretty well in the end with it.

CF hopefully sorted for the long term now. Mount I think will be very good long term but will take some time to get integrated properly and more involved, though that's my only concern as he does well whenever he gets on the ball and is very useful off the ball. Amrabat I'd imagine the option is dependent on actually selling Donny or McTominay throughout the season but I'm glad we have him as we needed a press resistant deep passing midfielder who is very good on the ball. Onana is quality and delighted we got that in, though the De Gea situation was weirdly handled but ultimately correct in the end.

 

[VP89]

Mount inst an upgrade on Eriksen at all, just younger.
Onana is an upgrade yes
Amrabat over Fred remains to be seen.
A doormat would be more useful than Weghoust. It's debatable if Hojlund will have an impact or not.

I'd say only really Onana has definitely improved us.

For the pressing system we want, he is an upgrade on Eriksen.

My point is, without getting into too many individual comparisons, it's very clear we have an improved squad to last season. We are upgraded in the GK and CF department whilst adding 2 good options with different types of midfielders in the middle.

 

[Roboc7]

That’s literally nonsense. We didn’t sign a single player that wasn’t part of the long term plan, apart from the emergency left back which was forced.

We’re just buying who manager wants, same as always. Clearly still no long term plan, if ETH goes it’s back to square one. They couldn’t even plan ahead to navigate FFP, idea Murtough has any plan is nonsense though.

 

[VP89]

- Handling of Greenwood Situation (Awful)

Has feck all to do with Murtough

- Failing to get £60m for Mctominay & Maguire (Awful)

We accepted Maguire, he turned the deal down because he wanted a fat pay out. So that's not on us.

- Overpaying for Hojlund by someway & prioritising an attacking centre mid (Awful)

The priority was set by the manager in sync with the DoF, so feel free to blame both but they are very aligned on this.

- Selling academy players so cheap when we see countless others going for so much more, the young city lad that went for £45m has 0 PL goals and Elanga went for £15m and we celebrated it?

Palmer vs Elanga - you really want to cry because we couldn't sell Elanga for more than £15m? Have you seen him for us? He was trash.

- Timing/ Overpaying and not concentrating on the biggest priorities

I don't want to point out "Improvement" on last year, we should have standards and they aren't being met at all.

Timing? We got 3 key signings in before the season began and worked through in order of priority that was set by the manager and DoF. Just because they aren't 'your' priorities doesn't make it wrong.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Greenwood was not on him in the slightest, that is arnold. We accepted the offer for Maguire, he didn't want to leave. The offer was a lowball offer for McTominay, fair to hold on for closer to your price. Mount will be fine. Hojlund, we were desperate for a CF and for a profile like him, it doesn't matter much if it's 50m or 70m. Either way, he's either going to be a flop or a huge success. There's really no middle ground where he'd be a success at the lower end of a price between 40-75m but a flop at the higher end with the same performances. It was a case of just getting him in because we believe he can be a top CF, and were desperate to get one in. Elanga vs Palmer, there's this thing called talent and potential and what clubs believe in. Chelsea were in for Palmer because he is a very talented youngster with big potential. Elanga has had virtually no role this year and has severely underwhelmed every time he's played while also not being particularly highly rated beyond "average PL level". Timing was good, we got our main 3 targets in early before the season but had some injury issues now. Amrabat was the only other priority target and he was delayed due to FFP issues where we had to wait to sell some players. Our biggest priorities were focused on, with the exception that you could argue Amrabat should've been a priority earlier but it's a fine line between him and Mount in terms of what Ten Hag prioritized and wanted, and the good thing is we got both in.

I'll give you Greenwood but there are things we can do to force Maguire's hand so I don't accept "Well Mags wants to stay", we don't see that at other top clubs and I don't see how you think Mctominay is worth more than £30m when nobody offered it?
£50m or £70m doesn't matter for Hojulnd? One allowed us to get Amrabat in time for start of the season so I'd say it has a huge effect. I don't buy the "Potential" thing either, too many don't realise it and Elanga is young but even if I give you that, I can't buy that we couldn't get more than £15m for a young English attacker.

IN regards to timing, we had 1 player on tour who is now injured? Perhaps we have different standards...

It wasn't delayed "due to FFP", it was delayed due to us being unable to sell players effectively which is another huge negative point.

 

[VP89]

I'll give you Greenwood but there are things we can do to force Maguire's hand so I don't accept "Well Mags wants to stay", we don't see that at other top clubs and I don't see how you think Mctominay is worth more than £30m when nobody offered it?

£50m or £70m doesn't matter for Hojulnd? One allowed us to get Amrabat in time for start of the season so I'd say it has a huge effect. I don't buy the "Potential" thing either, too many don't realise it and Elanga is young but even if I give you that, I can't buy that we couldn't get more than £15m for a young English attacker.

IN regards to timing, we had 1 player on tour who is now injured? Perhaps we have different standards...

It wasn't delayed "due to FFP", it was delayed due to us being unable to sell players effectively which is another huge negative point.

Which again is not down to Murtough because he inherited a squad that had stupid wages for average players, which effectively means his job was to sell with an arm tied behind his back. How can he do deals for players to get the feck out if they are sitting on stupid wages?

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

We’re just buying who manager wants, same as always. Clearly still no long term plan, if ETH goes it’s back to square one. They couldn’t even plan ahead to navigate FFP, idea Murtough has any plan is nonsense though.

What’s the alternative, sign players that the manager doesn’t want. What would you have done instead, I’m genuinely curious?

 

[VP89]

What’s the alternative, sign players that the manager doesn’t want. What would you have done instead, I’m genuinely curious?

He's gona say let the scouts do the work. But he wont consider a lot of the names were known to the scouts + the manager, and it's a joint process.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Has feck all to do with Murtough


We accepted Maguire, he turned the deal down because he wanted a fat pay out. So that's not on us.



The priority was set by the manager in sync with the DoF, so feel free to blame both but they are very aligned on this.



Palmer vs Elanga - you really want to cry because we couldn't sell Elanga for more than £15m? Have you seen him for us? He was trash.


Timing? We got 3 key signings in before the season began and worked through in order of priority that was set by the manager and DoF. Just because they aren't 'your' priorities doesn't make it wrong.

Made my responses above, maybe it's just different opinions but when I see other clubs able to move their players on so much more swiftly and successfully it leaves a poor idea of how we have handled outgoings specifically and we only have 1 player on the tour?

We started the season with our biggest requirements to be a top level striker (Didn't get) back up CB (Didn't get) cover for Casemiro (Deadline day), it was widely reported after we couldn't get Kane/ Osimhen that Ten Hag was forced to switch to Onana/ Mount etc I don't believe he looked at last season and said "Mount is my first priority", we can only go off opinion as we will never know but that doesn't add up for me.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Which again is not down to Murtough because he inherited a squad that had stupid wages for average players, which effectively means his job was to sell with an arm tied behind his back. How can he do deals for players to get the feck out if they are sitting on stupid wages?

Making it clear that they have no future, being harsher, we see teams put them in the reserves if they want to hold the club to ransom, I think out of the top clubs we have taken the smallest advantage of the Saudi market.

 

[didz]

Bit unfair to start this thread while he still has 8 hours to wrap up Mbappe.

 

[The White Pele]

I would say 5 out of 8 required positions addressed without increasing the salary budget so not bad.

GK and striker were paramount. Did ok with outgoings but need to do better. Maguire, McTominay, VDB, Martial, Greenwood exits would really have allowed us to push the envelope.

I still feel like Ten Hag calls the shots too much with our targets though. Murtough needs some accountability if signings fail, it can’t all be on the manager.

 

[VP89]

Making it clear that they have no future, being harsher, we see teams put them in the reserves if they want to hold the club to ransom, I think out of the top clubs we have taken the smallest advantage of the Saudi market.

That doesn't happen to players unless they have had some sort of misconduct in the work place. There are legal repercussions for doing that type of shit. Name me one player who just got thrown in the reserves because the club wanted to sell him and he didnt want to go, whilst being extremely professional in training and conduct.


We also need to have a market where Saudi clubs want our players and we have players that want to go there.

 

[Hal9000]

With players like Brennan Johnson and Cole Plamer going for £45 million, can see why we've paid £55 million for Mount.

 

[El Jefe]

I think its clear we are closer.

Mount is an upgrade on Eriksen
Onana is an upgrade on DDG
Amrabat is an upgrade on Fred
Hojlund is an upgrade on Wehorst

Mainoo will be integrated further
Garnacho's second season to establish himself further

Etc.

All that does is get us closer to where we finished last season.

Making AC Milan level signings isn't going to bridge the gap between us an Arsenal/City.

Onana is the only clear upgrade for me. I don't count Weghorst as the place that was upgraded. We came into the season with Ronaldo as the striker and still had Voldemort as a potential option.

Newcastle, Chelsea and Liverpool have arguably done better business than us too so its not like we're increasing the gap on those we finished ahead of.

Its not a bad window but it's decent at best in my opinion.

 

[VP89]

All that does is get us closer to where we finished last season.

Making AC Milan level signings isn't going to bridge the gap between us an Arsenal/City.

Onana is the only clear upgrade for me. I don't count Weghorst as the place that was upgraded. We came into the season with Ronaldo as the striker and still had Voldemort as a potential option.

Newcastle, Chelsea and Liverpool have arguably done better business than us too so its not like we're increasing the gap on those we finished ahead of.

Its not a bad window but it's decent at best in my opinion.

If we had Hojlund and Onana last year I think we'd bridge the gap between us and Arsenal.

They've got Rice who isn't that big an upgrade on Partey and Timber is out for the season.

 

[wolvored]

Overall 7/10. We got players in, one way or another. Onana and Amrabat are good signings. Hojlund adds excitement and expectation. Jury still out on Mount. He allowed the manager to pick once again.
We moved others on, but the 3 failures being Maguire VDB and McTom. £60 mill from WHU for Maguire and McTom would have been good business. We should have told Maguire we would make the difference in wages over the 2 years, plus £2mill, or he doesnt make the bench if he stays.
Min-Jae, what happened to him?

 

[Redstain]

What’s the alternative, sign players that the manager doesn’t want. What would you have done instead, I’m genuinely curious?

That's the whole purpose of the infrastructure around the hierarchy so that signings are made with deliberation down to the manager not the other way around. One thing no manager can do is guarantee their success therefore a footballing director should always objectively plan beyond the place of the contemporary manager it's common sense.

So in the worst case scenario (which has been evidenced with every manager post SAF) if the manager gets the sack the club is left with their singings. The next manager has the responsibility of having to undo this process (which creates the negative NET spend as values cannot be recuperated) and then every manager in this operational cycle is tasked with a rebuild over and over again.

So the spine of the team is changing every three years when it should last way beyond such a period. Therefore, new signings are always being integrated into a team that is not established and they look far worse than their performances at their previous clubs a case that has followed most signings. So this is all a domino effect of when the manager calls the shots it is a cataclysmic issue.

 

[luke511]

It’s his 3rd summer. It’s hard to say at the start of the season but for now, I’ll give it a 3/10 for:

- Missing out on the opportunity to receive £30 million for McTominay

- Paying 5 million more than his public take it or leave it offer on Mount

- Paying 55 million on an out of form player with a year left on his contract, only to be played out of position as 8 whilst we have Fernandes at 10.

- Hardly any money left to get in a much needed 6/8 because of the money spent on Mount and missed out on by McT. However the recovery to this error has been a good one, Amrabat on loan is much needed. 1 mark.

- Failing to bring in any low value high potential scout oriented prospects.

- Kovar should’ve been kept going off the fee sold and his replacement.

- Missing the opportunity to prioritise and sign Caicedo, a world class talent and perfect fit to our midfield

- Onana and Hojlund definitely strengthen us and are good signings, but factoring in the prices paid in relation to their previous values 12-18 months ago and their current level, I don’t think the deals deserve a huge amount of credit. 1 mark each.

 

[Roboc7]

What’s the alternative, sign players that the manager doesn’t want. What would you have done instead, I’m genuinely curious?

What do you think other clubs do?. Not sure how you can be genuinely curious when there are plenty of alternatives.

 

[CloneMC16]

4.

Maguire, Bailly, McTominay, and Van de Beek are still at the club. Actually got an okay bid for McTominay, but turned it down. The players we did sell, we sold for very little.
Massively overpaid for Hojlund. Overpaid for Mount. Waited until deadline day to sign Amrabat. Should have been here at the start of the season.

Onana is the only signing I can say is a definite upgrade and will be good for us. Mount, Amrabat, and Hojlund are wait and sees.

Don't know how much can be blamed on Murtough, though. We seem restricted by FFP and the Glazers are still here.

 

[Woodzy]

Decent start, turned out to be the standard mess you would expect from modern day United.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'll give you Greenwood but there are things we can do to force Maguire's hand so I don't accept "Well Mags wants to stay", we don't see that at other top clubs and I don't see how you think Mctominay is worth more than £30m when nobody offered it?
£50m or £70m doesn't matter for Hojulnd? One allowed us to get Amrabat in time for start of the season so I'd say it has a huge effect. I don't buy the "Potential" thing either, too many don't realise it and Elanga is young but even if I give you that, I can't buy that we couldn't get more than £15m for a young English attacker.

IN regards to timing, we had 1 player on tour who is now injured? Perhaps we have different standards...

It wasn't delayed "due to FFP", it was delayed due to us being unable to sell players effectively which is another huge negative point.

Due to FFP ties into sales of course. Hojlund, well we did what was required to get him in, I wasn't involved in the negotiations so ultimately I'm not going to speak on stuff I have no idea of. Elanga I felt was good to get 15m for? He has shown nothing to be worth more. If we want to get more for players like him, we sell them last year after their first little breakout and make the decisions on them quickly when their value is high, not after we give them a year of nothingness and tank their value.

Onana and Mount were both on tour, Hojlund was signed before the season too. That's good. Injuries are a separate issue and shouldn't be looked at for this and don't matter in the grand scheme of things when assessing how we did transfer business.

Maguire was simply asking for an absurd amount to be paid off. We stripped him of captaincy and he has clearly been 4th choice CB. There is nothing you can do if he doesn't want to leave in the end, and it takes time to undo the mistakes of the past.

McTominay has his worth relative to what others are going for. Nobody might want to pay it, but that's fine, he wasn't a "get rid at all costs" player like Van de beek (who we can't even get someone to take on loan apparently). McTominay still has a role here and will have one throughout the season unless something changes today.

 

[Steve 007]

Those moaning we didn’t get Maguire out would have been furious if we sold for 30m and gave him a pay off of 7-14m depending what you read.
The Amrabat loan is fantastic business, the left back is injury cover so the top targets don’t want to come in for a few months.

The manager wanted a ball playing keeper and a striker. He also wanted two players in each position and Mount can cover Bruno and hopefully in time Erickson. Amrabat is insurance in case Casimeiro gets injured or to partner him. Win/win.

Hojilund is a kid but we are buying potential in the hope that his development is quickened At our club. It’s a risk but we could not get Kane so had little choice.
Overall he’s done what he could. Let’s hope for a great season.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Making it clear that they have no future, being harsher, we see teams put them in the reserves if they want to hold the club to ransom, I think out of the top clubs we have taken the smallest advantage of the Saudi market.

Putting players in the reserves reduces their value if anything.

And what if they still don't leave? Now Varane and Shaw are injured where would we be if we'd put Maguire in the reserves? How do you think he'd play on being recalled? Everything has been done to signal to him he should move on and it hasn't worked. That and the fact that he's on huge wages and only West Ham wanted him. So how is being 'harsher' going to work?

At the end of the day Maguire couldn't be forced to leave. Wishing it so doesn't alter that. And the Saudi market is irrelevant if they don't want our players or the player doesn't want to go.