Moussa Dembele (Lyon) - Take Him?

UNITED ACADEMY said:
Greenwood can play on the right to get his playing time. Why do I need to repeat this again?
Click to expand...

Because you have not thought beyond 18 months. Basically, your plan is to sign Haaland and tell Greenwood to forget about be a striker and become a winger.

Greenwood can play on the right to get his ‘playing time’ while waiting for Ighalo to move on, but not while waiting for Haaland. If you sign Haaland, unless he becomes a flop, Greenwood is no longer a striker. Whether now, or in 2 or 3 years when Haaland is just a 22 year old striker. What happens to him then? How about getting one of the world’s best young wingers, so that we can have one of the world’s best young wingers AND one of the world’s best young strikers (which we already do), instead of opting to have the world’s two best young strikers, with one of them competing with Dan James on the wing?
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
And Greenwood lacks the ability to hold the ball at this moment. He scored more goals this season from the right side because he's getting more space in that position.

You might want to check the reality that we might not be able to afford Sancho this summer. This is not going to be a long term position, the right side at this moment is perfect for Greenwood to build more experience and confidence by playing more games time.
Click to expand...
You say we may not be able to afford Sancho but then advocate spending €60m on a bang average striker
 
Not at that price. If he was out of contract or was available on the cheap I'd take him as I think he's be a solid backup option. But from what I have seen of him here, he's not good enough to be a starter for us and worth no where near that money.
 
Absolute BS. £60m for an average striker to be our back up in a post covid market? Yeah right.
 
Yes but like others have mentioned not for the amount Lyon want. Good player but it’s clear Ole wants Martial as his number 9.
 
I think I read L’Equipe stated they could sell for €40m, £60m would be ridiculous.
 
We were willing to pay £25 mill for King in january. To me, that imply that he is our first choice. We would not offer £25 mill for King if we actually prefered signing Dembele four months later. Solskjaer had also underlined that he is working with a long term perspective.

I would almost be willing to put money on King.
 
"According to The Daily Star" should tell you all you need to know about this rumour.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Greenwood can play on the right to get his playing time. Why do I need to repeat this again?
Click to expand...
The point is that while Yes, you are right that he could play there, just as he could play at LB, if all we are concerned with is his playing time and giving him minutes.

But is he effective there? I don't think he is.
 
golden_blunder said:
You say we may not be able to afford Sancho but then advocate spending €60m on a bang average striker
Click to expand...

Ok - he is not Mbappe- but 42 goals in 88 matches for Lyon should indicate that he is not bang average
 
Adnan said:
"According to The Daily Star" should tell you all you need to know about this rumour.
Click to expand...
He’s a rumour that won’t go away, tbf. Constantly been linked to him for about 18 months or so now.
——
Still I do agree he won’t be for us. I don’t think there’s anything in his game to suggest he’ll become an elite forward. And unlike half of the forum, I rate Martial very highly.
 
lysglimt said:
Ok - he is not Mbappe- but 42 goals in 88 matches for Lyon should indicate that he is not bang average
Click to expand...
That is kind of the very definition of bang average, isn’t it? A 1 in 2 record isn’t particularly good.
 
Rozay said:
Because you have not thought beyond 18 months. Basically, your plan is to sign Haaland and tell Greenwood to forget about be a striker and become a winger.

Greenwood can play on the right to get his ‘playing time’ while waiting for Ighalo to move on, but not while waiting for Haaland. If you sign Haaland, unless he becomes a flop, Greenwood is no longer a striker. Whether now, or in 2 or 3 years when Haaland is just a 22 year old striker. What happens to him then? How about getting one of the world’s best young wingers, so that we can have one of the world’s best young wingers AND one of the world’s best young strikers (which we already do), instead of opting to have the world’s two best young strikers, with one of them competing with Dan James on the wing?
Click to expand...

Striker starts their peak in 25 or 26 years old, Different age between Martial & Greenwood is 5 years and also 4 years between Dembele. By the time Greenwood start at his peak, both Martial & Dembele would have been in their 30 which also perfect time for Greenwood to becomes regular.

There is also potential that when we sign Haland or Dembele, they might not be here for long term, did you think about it when we had Ronaldo? Do you also think about we might end up changing formation to 2 strikers in 5 years? You are the one who haven't thought beyond 18 months here.

No one in here telling Greenwood to forget about be a striker. There were and are many strikers who were developed by getting their minutes playing different position such as RVP, Suarez, Henry and etc and Greenwood is one of those striker.
 
If the choice is Dembele for 50 million or Ighalo for 20 million, I know which one I would want.

I understand fans have taken to Ighalo, but he is an average player who has never played for a top club. I don’t believe in buying in players to have squad roles. That has never worked in the past for any top teams (see Chelsea with Ben Haim and Sidwell)

To progress, you need players to come in and compete to be starters. Dembele has a very good record and, at 23 years old, is a great investment.

His career is following a natural progression and he is developing as a footballer.

I think it would be a smart purchase.

We shouldn’t be worried about not blocking Martial, we should be worried about making our squad as competitive as possible. Young and hungry.

Don’t bring in players to play squad roles, especially players that are on the wrong side of 30.
 
golden_blunder said:
You say we may not be able to afford Sancho but then advocate spending €60m on a bang average striker
Click to expand...

And Sancho is 70m more than that. I don't see Dembele as average. If 50-60m is our budget, it's not like we can bargain Sancho with that budget.
 
Sea-Cow said:
The point is that while Yes, you are right that he could play there, just as he could play at LB, if all we are concerned with is his playing time and giving him minutes.

But is he effective there? I don't think he is.
Click to expand...

He scores more goals on the right than when he plays in central. At this current stage, he's much more effective on the right.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Striker starts their peak in 25 or 26 years old, Different age between Martial & Greenwood is 5 years and also 4 years between Dembele. By the time Greenwood start at his peak, both Martial & Dembele would have been in their 30 which also perfect time for Greenwood to becomes regular.

There is also potential that when we sign Haland or Dembele, they might not be here for long term, did you think about it when we had Ronaldo? Do you also think about we might end up changing formation to 2 strikers in 5 years? You are the one who haven't thought beyond 18 months here.

No one in here telling Greenwood to forget about be a striker. There were and are many strikers who were developed by getting their minutes playing different position such as RVP, Suarez, Henry and etc and Greenwood is one of those striker.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but this is such nonsense. Do you want Greenwood to get his first proper chance at regular game time in his best position when he is 25 or 26?!

Or apparently you want to sign Haaland with the intention of almost immediately losing him? Sounds great.

RVP, Henry and Suarez? Henry was a wide forward, like Rashford. He played in that position for his entire career. Suarez is a centre-forward. He has played in that position for his entire career. RVP is a player who only really fulfilled his promise as a player from the age of 25/26, and peaked even later than that in his last season at Arsenal and first at United. Mostly this was due to persistent injury trouble, but it was also because that was the first time he was really given ownership of the centre-forward position, the position that perfectly suited him. Many have remarked on how much Greenwood's game resembles Van Persie's.

We have two choices. Either for whatever reason we don't think Greenwood has what it takes, in which case we do indeed need to splash a load of cash on a top CF, as young as possible, to either compete with or even displace Martial in that position. Someone like Haaland would be ideal. OR we trust the overwhelming evidence of his ability and we accept that Greenwood is already the right player to fill that role, and instead we spend what cash we have on that right wing position, which has for so long been either empty or filled by players who aren't very good or don't really belong there.

In neither of those two options, the second of which is overwhelmingly the more sensible, do we buy a Spurs-level mid-career and apparently overpriced striker like Dembele.
 
Brightonian said:
I'm sorry but this is such nonsense. Do you want Greenwood to get his first proper chance at regular game time in his best position when he is 25 or 26?!

Or apparently you want to sign Haaland with the intention of almost immediately losing him? Sounds great.

RVP, Henry and Suarez? Henry was a wide forward, like Rashford. He played in that position for his entire career. Suarez is a centre-forward. He has played in that position for his entire career. RVP is a player who only really fulfilled his promise as a player from the age of 25/26, and peaked even later than that in his last season at Arsenal and first at United. Mostly this was due to persistent injury trouble, but it was also because that was the first time he was really given ownership of the centre-forward position, the position that perfectly suited him. Many have remarked on how much Greenwood's game resembles Van Persie's.

We have two choices. Either for whatever reason we don't think Greenwood has what it takes, in which case we do indeed need to splash a load of cash on a top CF, as young as possible, to either compete with or even displace Martial in that position. Someone like Haaland would be ideal. OR we trust the overwhelming evidence of his ability and we accept that Greenwood is already the right player to fill that role, and instead we spend what cash we have on that right wing position, which has for so long been either empty or filled by players who aren't very good or don't really belong there.

In neither of those two options, the second of which is overwhelmingly the more sensible, do we buy a Spurs-level mid-career and apparently overpriced striker like Dembele.
Click to expand...

Just because the club wants to sign a striker it doesn't mean they will be here for long term. Not every players that we signed, dream to be Manchester United players for 10 years and Ronaldo is a good example of it.

If we are so 100% Haland will be United players for 10 years, we wouldn't refuse the buyout clause and percentage of future sales term with him. When signing players, you'll not just consider it as long term only but also part of investment. It's not nonsense, that's the reality.

I watched Suarez a lot at Ajax early years, and I know for sure he played wide when Huntelaar was at the club played central. Henry played as a striker alongside Bergkamp or Kanu in his prime. My point is that Greenwood is one of those striker who can contribute on wide and still benefit for player's development & improvement.

We need a striker to compete if we lose Ighalo, Werner would have been my ideal one but we are linked with Dembele not only now but since we sold Lukaku last summer. And I have no issue the idea of us signing him to compete with Martial.
 
60M for a player who is almost 24 as inst really established yet, you either pay that price for a consolidated striker or a promising youngster, I think Dembele its trapped between those two. Not really a consolidated striker and neither young enough no be considered promising.

Its a no for me, sorry.
 
60m but will probably sell for closer to 35-45m with bonuses. Aulas is not going to find a taker in post-corona market for him at the price he wants. He's young, I mean people even bringing up his age as some kind of negative when he's not even 24 is silly to me. He's been on the radar since he was 18-19 at Celtic and he's gotten better since. He has the attributes to be successful in the Premier league, but he's not someone I would want as the leading striker of a contender but I would absolutely love him as a squad player. I think him and Martial/Rashford would work very well together. The team needs more bodies up front so unless Haaland is available, in which case forget everything and go for him, but in the other case I'd definitely put in a bid at 35m and see where that lands.
 
SAFMUTD said:
60M for a player who is almost 24 as inst really established yet, you either pay that price for a consolidated striker or a promising youngster, I think Dembele its trapped between those two. Not really a consolidated striker and neither young enough no be considered promising.

Its a no for me, sorry.
Click to expand...
I think if you said £30m-£40m max before corona you’d probably take that gamble but £60m you want to know he’s coming in as a starter ready to make a huge impact. I haven’t seen convincing stats or argument for his inclusion.
 
We are not going to pay more than 30mil for a squad player, it is as simple as that.
It will either be Ighalo on a permanent deal or it will be a 20yo that has not got a big profile but has good potential.
Forget about Grealish and Dembele and any other player that is going to cost north of 40mil coming to the club unless there are departures and they are coming to take their first team spots.
 
Bondi77 said:
We are not going to pay more than 30mil for a squad player, it is as simple as that.
It will either be Ighalo on a permanent deal or it will be a 20yo that has not got a big profile but has good potential.
Forget about Grealish and Dembele and any other player that is going to cost north of 40mil coming to the club unless there are departures and they are coming to take their first team spots.
Click to expand...

If villa get relegated then I can see Grealish moving for less than 40m to be fair.
 
SAFMUTD said:
60M for a player who is almost 24 as inst really established yet, you either pay that price for a consolidated striker or a promising youngster, I think Dembele its trapped between those two. Not really a consolidated striker and neither young enough no be considered promising.

Its a no for me, sorry.
Click to expand...

How is he not established? He was a promising youngster when he was at Celtic where his goal return was outstanding. He got his move to a higher level and has continued his development with another impressive goal return. What more can he do before you would be willing to accept him as a "consolidated striker"? You paid roughly the same amount for Martial who was less proven, less established and had a vastly inferior goal return in the same league. Granted he was younger but even when you compare their stats at France U21 level it's clear that Dembele stands out. I'm not saying he's a better player than Martial, he isn't, but he's a better striker, it's an area you need to spend on, he fits the business model and what Ole is trying to build.

Don't get me wrong, I do think 60 million is an overpay but the transfer market is wild these days. Wan-Bissaka and Fred at 50 million were overpays. Maguire at 80 million was an overpay. That's what happens when teams have more money than sense and can slap silly valuations onto their players because they're comfortable enough financially not to ever be in a situation where they need to sell for anything less.

I find it astounding that people are suggesting they would prefer a striker that is 7 years older with a worse goal output. I can't get my head around that part.
 
Not good enough and overpriced. What part of that is attractive to some of you?
 
Bondi77 said:
We are not going to pay more than 30mil for a squad player, it is as simple as that.
It will either be Ighalo on a permanent deal or it will be a 20yo that has not got a big profile but has good potential.
Forget about Grealish and Dembele and any other player that is going to cost north of 40mil coming to the club unless there are departures and they are coming to take their first team spots.
Click to expand...
I’d agree with this but I think if not Ighalo someone like King would also fit the £20m roughly bracket for a squad player.
 
golden_blunder said:
Just because we don’t get Sancho doesn’t mean we should settle for Dembele.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

I have no idea on the funds available this summer, but Sancho should definitely be the top priority. Dembele should not be considered, and I hope this is just agent-talk using United's name.
 
  • Like
Reactions: golden_blunder
BenitoSTARR said:
I think if you said £30m-£40m max before corona you’d probably take that gamble but £60m you want to know he’s coming in as a starter ready to make a huge impact. I haven’t seen convincing stats or argument for his inclusion.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Just because the club wants to sign a striker it doesn't mean they will be here for long term. Not every players that we signed, dream to be Manchester United players for 10 years and Ronaldo is a good example of it.

If we are so 100% Haland will be United players for 10 years, we wouldn't refuse the buyout clause and percentage of future sales term with him. When signing players, you'll not just consider it as long term only but also part of investment. It's not nonsense, that's the reality.
Click to expand...

You've responded to the argument (originally from @Rozay but shared by anyone with a bit of common sense) that buying Haaland effectively consigns Greenwood to the scrapheap, and your response was 'yes but Haaland might leave after two years'. So either you're happy to consign Greenwood to the scrapheap, or you think we should sign Haaland with the intention that he leaves after two seasons. That is indeed nonsense.
 
Sea-Cow said:
Agreed.

I have no idea on the funds available this summer, but Sancho should definitely be the top priority. Dembele should not be considered, and I hope this is just agent-talk using United's name.
Click to expand...
I think the OP is either his mum or his agent.

we surely have other priorities than wasting €60m on this guy.

personally I think Sancho is our top target but will be a structured deal in instalments. No way we are spunking money this summer
 
Pink Moon said:
How is he not established? He was a promising youngster when he was at Celtic where his goal return was outstanding. He got his move to a higher level and has continued his development with another impressive goal return. What more can he do before you would be willing to accept him as a "consolidated striker"? You paid roughly the same amount for Martial who was less proven, less established and had a vastly inferior goal return in the same league. Granted he was younger but even when you compare their stats at France U21 level it's clear that Dembele stands out. I'm not saying he's a better player than Martial, he isn't, but he's a better striker, it's an area you need to spend on, he fits the business model and what Ole is trying to build.

Don't get me wrong, I do think 60 million is an overpay but the transfer market is wild these days. Wan-Bissaka and Fred at 50 million were overpays. Maguire at 80 million was an overpay. That's what happens when teams have more money than sense and can slap silly valuations onto their players because they're comfortable enough financially not to ever be in a situation where they need to sell for anything less.

I find it astounding that people are suggesting they would prefer a striker that is 7 years older with a worse goal output. I can't get my head around that part.
Click to expand...

Because Ighalo or a center forward of his use/skill is what complements the team the best within the next 2/3 years, while Martial matures into his own at CF and while Greenwood matures as a person and pro footballer. Martial is contracted to the club until 2024, he'll be 28 in December of 2024. By that time, Greenwood will be 22/23, same age as Rashford is now.

And Dembele's contract is through 2023, he has at least another full year before being sold. He's not worth the transfer, let him go to City for all I care. United have Sancho as the main priority for at least the next two years.

This is Tony's first full season as the center forward playing the way he has for the team and himself has been good. His relationship with Rashford cannot be pushed aside, they work well together and their understanding was only getting better, and this was without Bruno and much of the season without Pogba.

Ighalo slotted in seamlessly for the club. Did we not all see this in his limited time here? The right personality, the right mindset, character and player skills that is asked of him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.