- Joined
- Dec 27, 2012
- Messages
- 224
Don't believe that for one moment, they have a far better coach.
Yep, I agree. Under JM we seem to have different approach to the game.
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Don't believe that for one moment, they have a far better coach.
His buys have been fine - Just not as good as city's. But really, as a club you should stop looking at what city are doing and focus on how you are progressing as a team on your own terms. Mourinho may not be doing a world class job for you, but he's steadied the ship and put you on an upward trajectory as a club again. I imagine he will keep doing that for the time being, even if it is not as fast as some people want. I don't really see how you can afford to jeopardize that.
Well....yeah. If we were only 6 off we'd still be firmly in a title race.
I just don't get how you thought we had
an incredibly talented squad a year ago, have significantly added to it since and still think this is the best we can do.
My only conclusion can be is that huge stock has been put on this 2nd position and qualifying from a very easy CL group.
I suppose we'll see as the season progresses. It'll be interesting see how the various posters respond(including myself) depending on how we do from now until May.
Indeed.What a pointless comparison. 10 years ago United already had assembled a squad and City had to buy one from scratch and who is still playing for either club after that long time?
I meant as in terms of squad quality. Catching them in terms of quality all over the pitch. I know we cant catch them this season.200 million wouldn't bring you close. Why are you guys doing this even? City have lost 2 frigging points all season. No one catches up to that. No one. It's fantasy to talk about how you catch up with that. You wait a season and wait for them to reach a human level again.
Nah not for me. He looks like he doesn't want his job and can't wait for the next one. Plus he is living away from his family - lost his dad this year too which only makes things harder.
I can remember a lot of his Chelsea press conferences / after match comments and he's never sounded this low.
Aye, I am not saying he is great. At the risk of quoting myself, being the most creative player in the current Man Utd squad is like being the best looking man in the serious burns ward... Or the better looking chuckle brother...I can name City, Chelsea games to show eactly how poor his link up is and how many times he lost the ball.
I can't believe what Liverpool have spent on VVD , just shows there is no end in sight to the transfer fees madness .
We can write off any hope of the prem this year and I think we are likely to be in a battle with Chelsea , Spurs , Liverpool and Arsenal for one of the top 4 spaces , after this recent disappointing period and with Liverpool at last strengthening there defence I think we have a real fight on our hands .
Will be interesting to see how this window pans out for us we need reinforcements all over the pitch but who we buy will be a clear indication of our plan for the remainder of the season .
If he is worried we will miss out on top 4 I would go big on Ozil immediately in the hope that the Arsenal board will want to cash in before he leaves for free in the summer.
If he thinks we have a sneaky chance in the Champs lge then maybe Mahrez would be an option as one of the very few top players not ruled out of playing for us in Europe .
Either way it's going to be an interesting few weeks .
With City now coasting 15 points ahead of us it just confirms what we already know in that the squad still needs further major surgery to have any hope of competing with City next year
I won't come up with a list of who we should have bought for a few reasons. The primary one being I actually think he's done alright in the transfer market. I wouldn't differ too much.We should have got a right winger which would have made a big difference but mistakes happen.
The second reason I'm not going to engage in that is because you know what happens. I come up with a list of names and the transfer experts in here will tell me they weren't available or would cost way more than what I think they would. Been there done that. Would be a pointless circular discussion.
This was you just over a year ago:
In order to be fair I'll point out in the same post you complained about the character of our players and felt the core needed a rebuild.
Well in addition to that "incredibly talented squad" Jose has since bought and spent a lot on that core. A centre back, centre mid and centre forward. Totalling in the region of £150million.
Given the above post of yours I've quoted and the money we've spent since do you still think Jose hasn't had enough to get us playing better and closer than 15 points?
Look at the top 10 transfers in the world right now, and you would really appreciate Jose's comments.
1. Neymar, Barcelona to Paris St Germain, 2017, £200.6m
2. Ousmane Dembele, Borussia Dortmund to Barcelona, 2017, £96.8m
3. Paul Pogba, Juventus to Manchester United, 2016, £89m
4. Gareth Bale, Tottenham to Real Madrid, 2013, £85.3m
5. Cristiano Ronaldo, Manchester United to Real Madrid, 2009, £80m
6. Gonzalo Higuain, Napoli to Juventus, 2016, £75.3m
7= Romelu Lukaku, Everton to Manchester United, 2017, £75m
7= Virgil van Dijk, Southampton to Liverpool, 2018, £75m
9. Luis Suarez, Liverpool to Barcelona, 2014, £65m
10. James Rodriguez, Monaco to Real Madrid, 2014, £63m
When Virgil van Dijk is worth that money, then you know something is wrong with todays market. A small club like Liverpool spending so much money means one of two things:
1. They sold Coutinho, so they have gone on a spending spree.
or/and
2. Jose is right, £300m right now is a pocket change for big clubs like Man Utd.
^^^^^ absolutely right. When you look on the list, it's an anomaly but an unhealthy precedent for the future. Is he that much better than say Smalling or Jones who have already played at CL level?
Like said, 300m enough if just 'good defenders' cost 70m. A world class one would be over 120m then? If we are going to buy ourselves out this in order to compete, we are probably talking another half a billion with no guarantees of success. Also the players we are looking at are more about their clubs selling high, in order to buy the very players we should have been going for in the first place. Real will happily sells us Bale to use the money to buy Kane.
I can't believe what Liverpool have spent on VVD , just shows there is no end in sight to the transfer fees madness .
We can write off any hope of the prem this year and I think we are likely to be in a battle with Chelsea , Spurs , Liverpool and Arsenal for one of the top 4 spaces , after this recent disappointing period and with Liverpool at last strengthening there defence I think we have a real fight on our hands .
Will be interesting to see how this window pans out for us we need reinforcements all over the pitch but who we buy will be a clear indication of our plan for the remainder of the season .
If he is worried we will miss out on top 4 I would go big on Ozil immediately in the hope that the Arsenal board will want to cash in before he leaves for free in the summer.
If he thinks we have a sneaky chance in the Champs lge then maybe Mahrez would be an option as one of the very few top players not ruled out of playing for us in Europe .
Either way it's going to be an interesting few weeks .
With City now coasting 15 points ahead of us it just confirms what we already know in that the squad still needs further major surgery to have any hope of competing with City next year
Just don't buy from within the EPL. Sigurdsson and Van Dijk cost combined 125 million. Other clubs around Europe will acquire better CB and AMC for half of that. I can guarantee that teams will get better CB for cheaper. One signing doesn't decide the overall market.Think Liverpool have just killed the window as the precedent bar has definitely been raised. Any chairman worth their weight will say 'if Liverpool have just paid £75m for a defender in January .....'
Not to answer directly, but just a point: are people not allowed to form new opinions based on the progression of time? I can't tell you how hot and cold we've been with regards to a host of players, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, even Blind for some and Darmian. Similarly, during LVG, a lot of us were trying to see the positives, a lot of that is trying to coax yourself into believing that things can become OK. With hindsight, pretty much everyone now recognises that LVG was a disaster appointment, and obviously everyone thinks the same about Moyes.
At the start of the season, most pundits were talking about how great our squad was and that we were favourites. I think that was as much down to Jose being manager as anything else. Turns out, our super injury prone defence makes it impossible to have a settled back four. And that it's hard going forward with ageing wingers at full back, compared to having actual full backs. Also turns out our midfield depth is non-existent and Ander has completely gone off the boil. Also turns out we really needed that right winger, the fourth recruit.
I'll freely admit that I have many times overestimated the quality of not only our squad, but our first 11. I think quite a lot did. It had a lot to do with expectation. My expectations were that we were, in the aftermath of the SAF era, trying to get things back ticking, be competitive. Nothing more. Under SAF, it was kinda the same. We weren't seriously trying to become the best team in Europe since Ronnie left and that wonderful team was broken up.
So if you take what Jose said, a big club vs a big team, we aren't a big team, we haven't been for ages. If SAF had stayed on without actual proper investment, I still think other teams would have kept us from the title. City were already better then, SAF just about made the difference, but City were still progressing.
What is your preference? @Dobbs who do you want to come in and turn this team into world beaters?
United have spent an obscene amount of money since SAF left, and yet recently, we still played with 7 SAF signings..!
That's a clear indication that there has been a criminal waste of huge sums of money these past 5 years, so I think its absolute rubbish to say haven't spent enough to forge a good team.
However, maybe Mourinho's comments, timed and delivered a week before the January window, are simply a tactic to get the purse strings loosened for January, because just maybe there is a big signing within reach....?
Just don't buy from within the EPL. Sigurdsson and Van Dijk cost combined 125 million. Other clubs around Europe will acquire better CB and AMC for half of that. I can guarantee that teams will get better CB for cheaper. One signing doesn't decide the overall market.
But is not jose's fault that managers before him wasted money by buying duds.
Course posters are allowed to change their mind. However when it's such a significant shift, from saying we've got the best XI to three months later saying Mourinho is working wonders to keep us second I think it's fair to ask what's going on.
Interestingly the few posters I've pointed this out to haven't like yourself simply admitted a change of mind, they've actually denied they ever held said position. Despite me quoting them in black and white. So is it a change of mind or rewriting history to merely defend the manager?
I actually think it's a good idea to look at past opinions and compare it to now. We all chuck out so much stuff. I've no problem with anyone doing the same with me.
In terms of my preference I want Jose to have another season here. Last thing we need is another manager coming in and giving players we know aren't good enough another 12 months to prove themselves. I also want Mourinho to stop being such a negative nelly. He looks miserable and the team looks miserable. The best teams enjoy their football.
Agree but in defence of the other managers, only hindsight of these signings allows us to have an opinion. Depay was the best young Dutch player at the time and historically Dutch players have done well in this league. No science to ever predict the outcome of transfers...
Course posters are allowed to change their mind. However when it's such a significant shift, from saying we've got the best XI to three months later saying Mourinho is working wonders to keep us second I think it's fair to ask what's going on.
Interestingly the few posters I've pointed this out to haven't like yourself simply admitted a change of mind, they've actually denied they ever held said position. Despite me quoting them in black and white. So is it a change of mind or rewriting history to merely defend the manager?
I actually think it's a good idea to look at past opinions and compare it to now. We all chuck out so much stuff. I've no problem with anyone doing the same with me.
In terms of my preference I want Jose to have another season here. Last thing we need is another manager coming in and giving players we know aren't good enough another 12 months to prove themselves. I also want Mourinho to stop being such a negative nelly. He looks miserable and the team looks miserable. The best teams enjoy their football.
But is not jose's fault that managers before him wasted money by buying duds.
But then one cannot blame Jose for that or say we have spent silly money since sir Alex retired in the context of Jose.
Who said it was..?
United have spent an obscene amount of money since SAF left, and yet recently, we still played with 7 SAF signings..!
That's a clear indication that there has been a criminal waste of huge sums of money these past 5 years, so I think its absolute rubbish to say haven't spent enough to forge a good team.
However, maybe Mourinho's comments, timed and delivered a week before the January window, are simply a tactic to get the purse strings loosened for January, because just maybe there is a big signing within reach....?
I assume you're not speaking about me with either of these statements, for the sake of my sanity tell me you're not.
I can't say I enjoy his demeanour but I also grant him leeway, he knows what he is doing. Remember Pep last season where he looked completely insane because he was so passively aggressively happy.
It is a change of mind, but more than anything, it is a change of expectations, it's a "where are we heading". After the collective depression of the previous two managers and the ensuing destruction of belief, most on here were just hoping for someone to come in and prevent a complete and utter implosion. That's been achieved. Then it became about winning the league, with the accompanying media hype bandwagon. I jumped on that briefly too, but of course, City just destroyed all in their wake and raised the bar quite significantly while we came to see that our first 11 is injury prone and lacks consistency, being completely overly reliant on the two midfielders Jose has bought. Then Jose shakes things up with his latest quotes and we are asking, where does the club want to be, among the elite or incrementally improving at each turn?
I don't think many were thinking, at the start of the season, despite the great start and the 4-0s, that we were some European powerhouse all of a sudden. Now we've got a manager who can lead a European powerhouse quite well, but we've not got the team to reflect that. We are, and have been for maybe 5-6-7 years, well short of serious quality in so many areas.
No not yourself.
Winning the league, City, being a European powerhouse....I don't really care. These arguments always get brought up but it's not what I and others are asking for.
How about we get just two of our attacking players performing to their best? That would be a start before complaining about money and a lack of talent.
I presume this is for Jose.
Winning the league, City, being a European powerhouse....I don't really care. These arguments always get brought up but it's not what I and others are asking for.
How about we get just two of our attacking players performing to their best? That would be a start before complaining about money and a lack of talent.
Great, would be curious to see the contrasting quotes in question.
Yeah, I think that's failing to recognise quite serious drawbacks that need remedying. If there weren't significant flaws in our team, we'd already be doing what you are suggesting. That being said, I expect us to improve soon, we've been below par for a while now.
Yeah the flaw is none of the attacking players are performing like we know they can. Maybe Lingard is. You can't excuse Mourinho of that by mentioning drawbacks. That's what his job is, to get players performing.
Have a look through my recent posts to see them. I think Lentwood was the most extreme case but there's plenty of others.
I mean I still think you've made a large shift. A year ago you felt we had an "extremely talented squad" and you were telling others not to fall for the grass is greener trick when it comes to opposition squads. Since then we've spent £150 million on Lukaku, Matic and Lindelof. You should now be raving about the quality we have but it's actually quite the opposite.
Yeah the flaw is none of the attacking players are performing like we know they can. Maybe Lingard is. You can't excuse Mourinho of that by mentioning drawbacks. That's what his job is, to get players performing.
We do have a talented squad! in fact my issue is pretty clearly with those claiming mourinho has messed up improving it. And all that said it still has glaring deficiencies which he needs more time and money to fix
You've also absolutely cherry picked the context of that entire post which if anything validates the claim that mourinho had work to do, even with our talented players
Ah don't go there. Don't join the club who blame context or me twisting their words or semantics or the device they're using.
Are you for real? There's no twisting or semantics.
"These guys are underperforming constantly, flat out failing regularly and getting away with murder. And it will keep happening until the core is rebuilt completely wit the right kind of player. In the meantime, we'll Probably end up blaming the managers and almost everybody else"
That is a snippet of what was a damning account of even our most talented players, just a short amount of time into mourinhos reign. You were the one that took the snippet that removed from the entire post suited what yiu were saying, you even qualified it while you did it. You are relentlessly stubborn and near impressive at racing past anything close to a response- you just level your next accusation
You've misunderstood me. That's apparently what I've done when directly quoting others. I'm not accusing you of it. That was pretty clear.
You wanted the core rebuilt and now it has been. £150 million spent on the core since you made that comment. In fact Jose has bought two centre backs, two midfielders and two centre forwards. You say you're happy with the players bought so from your point of view there shouldn't be anything else holding us back. What you wanted a year ago has been done.
Unfortunately you've now moved on to a fresh set of problems that are apparently stopping the manager from making us any better.