Mourinho says it will be difficult to catch City next season

[Massive Spanner]

Compare the exceptional players Pep had to Mourinho when they both began.

Not rocket science and don’t bother twisting away from this since it’s all I’m saying. Only exceptional player José inherited is De Gea. Every other position since SAF’s retirement is/was a revolving door. Unless you have Sheikh money, you simply can’t fix those in 1 or 2 summer windows. You just can’t - in comparison to City.

but you said no manager could possibly hope to compete with City, you didn't say it was Mourinho/Pep specific, yet we've spent almost as much as them over the last five seasons.

But fine, compare those exceptional players. I count three at City before Pep took over, Aguero, Silva, and KDB (who wasn't truly exceptional until Pep got his hands on him) vs one for Jose (though you could certainly argue Martial was well on his way to being an exceptional player). I mean, it's hardly... a huge gulf is it? And it's not like City are creaming with quality in every position. He played Fabien Delph at left back for most of this season for feck sake. The likes of Otamendi, Stones, Fernandinho, Sterling, players who we have laughed at time and time again on here were all integral to his team. He's the one who bought the likes of Sane, Ederson, Walker, and Jesus. That's four quality first teamers right there, can we pick anyone like that out of mourinho's purchases? Not really, and who's fault is that?

why can't people just accept that Pep is doing a better job without going on these mad defenses of Jose? it's really strange. He's bought better, he's done better with his inherited players, he plays far better football. There's no comparison, yet people constantly bang on about money spent (which is negligible) and inherited players (which is more substantial, but again, it's up to the manager to get the best out of them) to try and justify the fact that Jose currently sits 20 points behind him in the table.

 

[Massive Spanner]

They also had Stones Sterling Mangala Fernandinho Hart Kompany Delph Silva and Aguero who would all with the exception of Hart (very experienced pl GK and was clear England no 1) wouldn’t had as we have DDG but the others mentioned would have either walked into our first 11 or are at least better than any our squad players. This is undisputable in my opinion.

Dearie me.

Imagine two years ago someone saying Sterling or Fernandinho would walk into our first XI, that'd be some amount of abuse.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Why are people moaning. He is being honest, it is likely City will retain the title. Our target is getting a lot nearer and putting pressure on. We have no idea how City will react under pressure in the league as they haven't had any to deal with. City will strengthen, but the more they strengthen it can bring it's own problems if you start getting players unhappy about not playing too often. United have always had a big squad, but that has included what you would call bench players, it is if these City players are happy with that situation. We will shift a load of players and hopefully get in players who will help us get a lot better. I would be happy if our style of play improves.

 

[Skills]

So what's the excuse going to be when if/when we do worse than Liverpool? Or worse than Chelsea?

Klopp had an extra 6 months? Chelsea always had a better squad?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

but you said no manager could possibly hope to compete with City, you didn't say it was Mourinho/Pep specific, yet we've spent almost as much as them over the last five seasons.

But fine, compare those exceptional players. I could three at City before Pep took over, Aguero, Silva, and KDB (who wasn't truly exceptional until Pep got his hands on him) vs one for Jose (though you could certainly argue Martial was well on his way to being an exceptional player). I mean, it's hardly... a huge gulf is it? And it's not like City are creaming with quality in every position. He played Fabien Delph at left back for most of this season for feck sake. The likes of Otamendi, Stones, Fernandinho, Sterling, players who we have laughed at time and time again on here were all integral to his team. He's the one who bought the likes of Sane, Ederson, Walker, and Jesus. That's four quality first teamers right now, can we pick anyone like that out of mourinho's purchases? Not really, and who's fault is that?

why can't people just accept that Pep is doing a better job without going on these mad defenses of Jose? it's really strange. He's bought better, he's done better with his inherited players, he plays far better football. There's no comparison, yet people constantly try bring money spent (which is negligible) and inherited players (which is more substantial, but again, it's up to the manager to get the best out of them).

We have spent as much, but not wisely, that is the difference. Recently there has been a purpose to their spending, ours has just been signing a big name, not to actually fit into a system. We can only hope that will change.

 

[dove]

Drama queens, of course it will be difficult to catch them if they win 100pts again... What do you expect?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yes I picked up drastically but thought you were a bit hyperbole to be honest so let it slide.
Taking us from outside the top four to second is drastically improving us do you not agree? And before you bring up spending again other teams have splashed out £75m on a centre defender £60m + on a midfielder and Chelsea have spunked £60-70m on a centre forward who looks like a poor mans Dzeco. This is not to mention City who have a handful of £50m players on the subs bench (spending is unprecedented in world football) if not even in the match day squad (Stones, Mangala). Or the £125m spent in one season on full backs.
I wish more of our fans on here would look at facts rather than be blinded by hatred for our manager. (That last comment is not specifically aimed at you). But the narrative some people speak is just wrong and overboard regarding our manager who is certainly not without his faults but is doing a very capable and competent job here. Would people rather have LVG or Moyes back? Under these two we lost Nani, Zaha and Adnan all who are better than Mata at right wing. Yet it’s Jose who had to pick up this squad and rebuild it and he’s doing that nicely.

We were one point off top four, so.. no I wouldn't agree. And that ignores other factors like his style of football and the performance against Sevilla in the CL.

I would say, as you said, he's probably been "competent". He's improved us enough to keep his job at the end of each season. He hasn't done any drastic improving. I think people need to read up on the definition of drastic.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I am just beginning to think that some people will moan whoever the manager is because he isn't SAF.

 

[Massive Spanner]

We have spent as much, but not wisely, that is the difference. Recently there has been a purpose to their spending, ours has just been signing a big name, not to actually fit into a system. We can only hope that will change.

That is partly down to the manager though, especially at a club where the manager has so much power due to there not being a DoF.

 

[Donnie Brasco]

We were one point off top four, so.. no I wouldn't agree. And that ignores other factors like his style of football and the performance against Sevilla in the CL.

I would say, as you said, he's probably been "competent". He's improved us enough to keep his job at the end of each season. He hasn't done any drastic improving. I think people need to read up on the definition of drastic.

Seriously stop it already. They won the title before that, played in the semifinals of CL, they stopped playing for Pellegrini when they announced Guardiola. They were in top 4 all season. If you honestly think that 1 point separated in terms of quality then ok fine.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Seriously stop it already. They won the title before that, played in the semifinals of CL, they stopped playing for Pellegrini when they announced Guardiola. They were in top 4 all season. If you honestly think that 1 point separated in terms of quality then ok fine.

These are just excuses to try support your narrative.

 

[Lawman]

but you said no manager could possibly hope to compete with City, you didn't say it was Mourinho/Pep specific, yet we've spent almost as much as them over the last five seasons.

But fine, compare those exceptional players. I count three at City before Pep took over, Aguero, Silva, and KDB (who wasn't truly exceptional until Pep got his hands on him) vs one for Jose (though you could certainly argue Martial was well on his way to being an exceptional player). I mean, it's hardly... a huge gulf is it? And it's not like City are creaming with quality in every position. He played Fabien Delph at left back for most of this season for feck sake. The likes of Otamendi, Stones, Fernandinho, Sterling, players who we have laughed at time and time again on here were all integral to his team. He's the one who bought the likes of Sane, Ederson, Walker, and Jesus. That's four quality first teamers right there, can we pick anyone like that out of mourinho's purchases? Not really, and who's fault is that?

why can't people just accept that Pep is doing a better job without going on these mad defenses of Jose? it's really strange. He's bought better, he's done better with his inherited players, he plays far better football. There's no comparison, yet people constantly try bring money spent (which is negligible) and inherited players (which is more substantial, but again, it's up to the manager to get the best out of them).

He’s done better but had a better squad what’s so hard to figure out? Jose has done well also. Let’s turn this around and say why can’t people accept or at least acknowledge Jose is doing a very good job without bringing Peo into it. It’s inevitable people will compare them but the smart people in my book are the ones who measure the improvements from the starting bases they took over.
You mentioned Jesus but he is fighting and often benched for Augero. Jose has not had this luxury in his squad unless you count the left wing with Martial Sanchez and Rashford. Three of our so called best players all in the same position. That’s how bad our squad balance is. Pep has a £50m pounds player in every position (even subs) whilst we have Valencia and Shaw propping is up in our first 11 and last season it was Zlatan or even Carrick for a spell. Not to mention Rooney who had fallen of a cliff with performances. None of this was Jose mess yet he’s getting battered for it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That is partly down to the manager though, especially at a club where the manager has so much power due to there not being a DoF.

It has been going on since SAF. Moyes needed to get the start of a new team in from the start, but was a disaster and we were left with Fellaini on final day, not what this team needed. The LvG signed loads of players, some good, some absolutely pointless. Jose's signings have been a mixed bag. I love Ibra, but it was a short-term signing, more short-term than even we expected. Others it is either they are struggling to settle or are constantly injured. I do agree a DOF could be beneficial.

 

[CM]

So what's the excuse going to be when if/when we do worse than Liverpool? Or worse than Chelsea?

Klopp had an extra 6 months? Chelsea always had a better squad?

I've seen 'Conte only won the league with Chelsea because Mourinho left him a title winning squad' on here before now. Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He’s done better but had a better squad what’s so hard to figure out? Jose has done well also. Let’s turn this around and say why can’t people accept or at least acknowledge Jose is doing a very good job without bringing Peo into it. It’s inevitable people will compare them but the smart people in my book are the ones who measure the improvements from the starting bases they took over.
You mentioned Jesus but he is fighting and often benched for Augero. Jose has not had this luxury in his squad unless you count the left wing with Martial Sanchez and Rashford. Three of our so called best players all in the same position. That’s how bad our squad balance is. Pep has a £50m pounds player in every position (even subs) whilst we have Valencia and Shaw propping is up in our first 11 and last season it was Zlatan or even Carrick for a spell. Not to mention Rooney who had fallen of a cliff with performances. None of this was Jose mess yet he’s getting battered for it.

I'm not saying Jose isn't doing a good job though (although "good" may be overstating it, I would say more so... acceptable) I just said he hasn't improved us drastically, because that would imply he's doing a great job, which he isn't. This is the problem here, it's either "he's doing amazing LEAVE HIM ALONE YOU KNOW NOTHING!" or "he's doing awful get rid". Where's the middle ground?

He's doing fine, he deserves another season, but next season he needs to do better.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Moyerinho.

 

[JPRouve]

The thing is what he said is useless from the club's, player's or fan's perspective. Winning the league is always difficult, you always need to give everything you have and you always need some "luck", City had several close calls at the beginning of the season. There is zero guarantee that City will be able to create the same gap next season, the same way Chelsea didn't with Mourinho and Conte, so it definitely feels like he is talking for the sake of talking. Next seasons will be a new season and the only thing that we expect is for the players and manager to give everything and enjoy the ride.

 

[Lawman]

These are just excuses to try support your narrative.

If you can’t acknowledge this then what’s the point o having a debate buddy it was clear to see for everybody.

Dearie me.

Imagine two years ago someone saying Sterling or Fernandinho would walk into our first XI, that'd be some amount of abuse.

Think you’re seriously underrating these two guys. I mean City spent £50m on getting Sterling and he’s probably the best English player about alongside Kane. Fernandinho a Brazilian international and would you rate a 35 year old Carrick or over the hill Bastian? Come on your starting to look silly.

 

[Lawman]

We were one point off top four, so.. no I wouldn't agree. And that ignores other factors like his style of football and the performance against Sevilla in the CL.

I would say, as you said, he's probably been "competent". He's improved us enough to keep his job at the end of each season. He hasn't done any drastic improving. I think people need to read up on the definition of drastic.

Ok but think you need to apply the same set of rules to yourself when using the dramatically then regarding other teams. That is only fair.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If you can’t acknowledge this then what’s the point o having a debate buddy it was clear to see for everybody.


Think you’re seriously underrating these two guys. I mean City spent £50m on getting Sterling and he’s probably the best English player about alongside Kane. Fernandinho a Brazilian international and would you rate a 35 year old Carrick or over the hill Bastian? Come on your starting to look silly.

And we spent even more than that on Martial. Who out of the three of Martial, Rashford, and Sterling was ratest lowest two years ago? Sterling. Nobody on here would've even considered swapping either for him.

Fernandinho was always considered a pretty competent midfielder but nothing close to the level he's shown under Pep.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing but two years ago nobody on here would've taken either of those players over ours.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Ok but think you need to apply the same set of rules to yourself when using the dramatically then regarding other teams. That is only fair.

what are you talking about?

City are about to hit 100 points this season.

How the feck is that not a drastic improvement?

 

[Ban]

He's saying obvious things but of course he's being attacked for it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm not saying Jose isn't doing a good job though (although "good" may be overstating it, I would say more so... acceptable) I just said he hasn't improved us drastically, because that would imply he's doing a great job, which he isn't. This is the problem here, it's either "he's doing amazing LEAVE HIM ALONE YOU KNOW NOTHING!" or "he's doing awful get rid". Where's the middle ground?

He's doing fine, he deserves another season, but next season he needs to do better.

Was looking at the league table in the PL gamethread for today. We really do not score enough goals, City, Spurs, Liverpool and even Arsenal have outscored us. He has to find a way to rectify this or everytime we go behind there is a good chance we will lose. He has bragged about the record against the big teams, but if we were winning some of those games against the small teams we would have been right up there. He has to find goals from other places on the pitch otherwise nothing much will change.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

but you said no manager could possibly hope to compete with City, you didn't say it was Mourinho/Pep specific, yet we've spent almost as much as them over the last five seasons.

But fine, compare those exceptional players. I count three at City before Pep took over, Aguero, Silva, and KDB (who wasn't truly exceptional until Pep got his hands on him) vs one for Jose (though you could certainly argue Martial was well on his way to being an exceptional player). I mean, it's hardly... a huge gulf is it? And it's not like City are creaming with quality in every position. He played Fabien Delph at left back for most of this season for feck sake. The likes of Otamendi, Stones, Fernandinho, Sterling, players who we have laughed at time and time again on here were all integral to his team. He's the one who bought the likes of Sane, Ederson, Walker, and Jesus. That's four quality first teamers right there, can we pick anyone like that out of mourinho's purchases? Not really, and who's fault is that?

why can't people just accept that Pep is doing a better job without going on these mad defenses of Jose? it's really strange. He's bought better, he's done better with his inherited players, he plays far better football. There's no comparison, yet people constantly bang on about money spent (which is negligible) and inherited players (which is more substantial, but again, it's up to the manager to get the best out of them) to try and justify the fact that Jose currently sits 20 points behind him in the table.

Pep inherited KDB, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Otamendi, Sterling - 6 exceptional starters.
> has spent £480M since.

José inherited De Gea - 1 exceptional starter.
> has spent £315M since.

...so 5 less exceptional starters (to put into perspective, that’s 10 revolving starting positions for José to deal with vs 5 for Pep) and £150M+ less.

To put into context, that £ difference is more than what United spent on average the past 2 summer windows - literally got overlapped an entire transfer window aka Pep has virtually had an extra window compare to Mourinho.



Yea seems legit m8. Like José said, that’s football heritage for you and that’s Sheikh money at work. Look at that head start and then look at the moneh advantage. Not rocket science to realize one is sitting at an advantageous position.

And enough of your crap. Swap José and Pep around and José will be the one “doing the better job” with those City resources. To nail the point home again, United spent less than £150M this past summer...City nearly doubled us with £290M. But no no. Not allowed to “justify sitting 20 points back”. Numpty.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Ferguson would never heve said that. He'd have caught the feckers

 

[Massive Spanner]

Pep inherited KDB, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Otamendi, Sterling - 6 exceptional starters.
> has spent £480M since.

José inherited De Gea - 1 exceptional starter.
> has spent £315M since.

...so 5 less exceptional starters (to put into perspective, that’s 10 revolving starting positions for José to deal with vs 5 for Pep) and £150M+ less. To put into context, that difference is more than what United spent on average the past 2 summer windows.



Yea seems legit m8. Like José said, that’s football heritage for you and that’s Sheikh money at work. Look at that head start and then look at the moneh advantage. Not rocket science to realize one is sitting at an advantageous position.

And enough of your crap. Swap José and Pep around and José will be the one “doing the better job” with those City resources. To nail the point home again, United spent less than £150M this past summer...City nearly doubled us with £290M. But no no. Not allowed to “justify sitting 20 points back”. Numpty.

City spent around £200m last summer, unless you're counting Laporte, who was bought in January, when we also got one of the league's best players?

Also you're having a fecking laugh saying Pep inherited Otamendi and Sterling as exceptional starters. They were both fecking rubbish before he arrived. And Kompany has played less than half of their PL games under him.

Why are you making things up and skewing facts to try make your point? Maybe it's because your point is full of shit.

 

[JPRouve]

Pep inherited KDB, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Otamendi, Sterling - 6 exceptional starters.
> has spent £480M since.

José inherited De Gea - 1 exceptional starter.
> has spent £315M since.

...so 5 less exceptional starters (to put into perspective, that’s 10 revolving starting positions for José to deal with vs 5 for Pep) and £150M+ less. To put into context, that difference is more than what United spent on average the past 2 summer windows.


Seems legit m8. Like José said, that’s football heritage for you and that’s Sheikh money at work. Look at that head start and then look at the moneh advantage. Not rocket science to realize one is sitting at an advantageous position.

And enough of your crap. Swap José and Pep around and José will be the one “doing the better job” with those City resources. To nail the point home again, United spent less than £150M this past summer...City nearly doubled us with £290M. But no no. Not allowed to “justify sitting 20 points back”. Numpty.

Let's be serious for one second, some posters are spot on when they complain about the "grass is greener" band. Sterling was a laughing stock, Kompany is a crock and Otamendi was shit. On the other end, Valencia, Martial and Smalling were very solid players in 2015/2016.

And an important point, it's true that Aguero, De Bruyne, Fernandinho and Silva are a difficult type of player to purchase.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ferguson would never heve said that. He'd have caught the feckers

I agree he might not have said it, but there has never been a team who has won the league like this. It might even have been beyond the great man's ability. Grit will only get you so far and I am not sure that he would spend the sort of money needed to fix our problems.

 

[Skills]

I agree he might not have said it, but there has never been a team who has won the league like this. It might even have been beyond the great man's ability. Grit will only get you so far and I am not sure that he would spend the sort of money needed to fix our problems.

The amount of fecking disrespect some of you constantly show to Fergie to prop up a manager we've had for less than 2 fecking years.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

I believe the main issue here is that that's very unlikely to happen. Mourinho hasn't shown any sign so far of it happening at all. I'm not sure why people expect this to change next season exactly. He hasn't done it in the past, why would it happen now just because of 2-3 big summer signings? Our football right now is every bit as shite as when he first took over, we just have better players.

He is being hamstrung by certain positions. We need 2 world class fullbacks, not converted wingers. It’s why we play through the middle all the time. We simply couldn’t sign as many players as City have at once, because, believe it or not, every player comes with a wage!
In our situation, we have to move players on before we can have a new player and wage, whereas City can just dump their unwanted players on someone and get their shiny new player.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

City spent around £200m last summer, unless you're counting Laporte, who was bought in January, when we also got one of the league's best players?

Also you're having a fecking laugh saying Pep inherited Otamendi and Sterling as exceptional starters. They were both fecking rubbish before he arrived. And Kompany has played less than half of their PL games under him.

Why are you making things up and skewing facts to try make your point? Maybe it's because your point is full of shit.

One was bought. The other was swapped for. Sterling was England’s next star in the making what are you on about. And Kompany being injured doesn’t mean he’s not exceptional. That’s like saying Bailly isn’t exceptional because he’s injured but ok...

 

[Massive Spanner]

I agree he might not have said it, but there has never been a team who has won the league like this. It might even have been beyond the great man's ability. Grit will only get you so far and I am not sure that he would spend the sort of money needed to fix our problems.

Are you for real?

Fergie would be winning 3 titles in 5 years with a squad like this. Look at the shower of shit he won his last two seasons with.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Let's be serious for one second, some posters are spot on when they complain about the "grass is greener" band. Sterling was a laughing stock, Kompany is a crock and Otamendi was shit. On the other end, Valencia, Martial and Smalling were very solid players in 2015/2016.

And in an important point, it's true that Aguero, De Bruyne, Fernandinho and Silva are a difficult type of player to purchase.

So doesn't that say something about the ability of their manager to improve them? Think some of our players are just happy playing for United and have got a bit complacent, some need serious competition for their places and some need shipping out.

 

[TheSamulator]

This guy is amazing. Already in there with the playing down of expectations.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The amount of fecking disrespect some of you constantly show to Fergie to prop up a manager we've had for less than 2 fecking years.

I have called him great man for a reason. He didn't win every single trophy he went in for if you haven't noticed.

 

[Massive Spanner]

One was bought. The other was swapped for. Sterling was England’s next star in the making what are you on about. And Kompany being injured doesn’t mean he’s not exceptional. That’s like saying Bailly is lent exceptional because he’s injured but ok...

no, you're talking dogs bollocks to try prove your point. Rashford and Martial were both rated higher than Sterling two years ago, just look back, it's an undeniable fact. There was absolutely nothing exceptional about Sterling when Pep took over. Martial and Rashford were both putting in far better performances than him.

And so what if he's exceptional when he was barely playing? Of course it's relevant, he's not playing football.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Are you for real?

Fergie would be winning 3 titles in 5 years with a squad like this. Look at the shower of shit he won his last two seasons with.

Yes he did. I am not disputing that. I just think those teams understood about United and had that mentality. I am not sure some of these players are like that. SAF bought and produced warriors. Some of this lot are a bit precious. There again would he have signed some of these players?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yes he did. I am not disputing that. I just think those teams understood about United and had that mentality. I am not sure some of these players are like that. SAF bought and produced warriors. Some of this lot are a bit precious. There again would he have signed some of these players?

SAF had plenty of precious players he had to work with and he usually always got the best out of any player he had regardless of what they were like as individuals.

Sorry but trying to use SAF as a defense for Mourinho is just pathetic. With this squad he'd be dominating the PL and probably winning another CL or two as well. It's the best squad we've had since the last time he won it.

it is comical how so many posters go back to our "weak" squad or whatever, like we're the only team in the modern game with players obsessed with money and glamour. it's a load of tosh. A great manager should be able to handle those players regardless of what they're like, and nobody could do that like SAF.

 

[JPRouve]

So doesn't that say something about the ability of their manager to improve them? Think some of our players are just happy playing for United and have got a bit complacent, some need serious competition for their places and some need shipping out.

I don't think Guardiola's abilities are doubted, he defined roles that suited his players which improved their performances and consistency enough to make the team far better, but when you look at their players individually they aren't a lot better. It's only a feeling so you can't put too much stock into it but I feel that we don't have a team spirit, I don't see our players play in roles that serves the team, I don't see them play for each others. Individually they are no worse than City's players but collectively it's night and day.

We look like a bad version of the Galacticos.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

no, you're talking dogs bollocks to try prove your point. Rashford and Martial were both rated higher than Sterling two years ago, just look back, it's an undeniable fact. There was absolutely nothing exceptional about Sterling when Pep took over. Martial and Rashford were both putting in far better performances than him.

And so what if he's exceptional when he was barely playing? Of course it's relevant, he's not playing football.

And like I said prior you’d end up twisting.

Anyways I’m done with you. Clearly you think Pep outspending José with the difference being equivalent to more than the average United summer window isn’t a big deal (he’s spent an extra window compared to United) And the fact he inherited more exceptional players. Martial hype is amazing. Replace his name with Depay and there isn’t much of a difference. Young, hype, flashes, no consistency and not up to United level. But hey I bet you think Pep could have figured out Depay too...when multiple managers see the same problems in a player, it’s the player at fault and not the managers /Martial’s case. But go ahead and make it out to be as if he were the next Messi.