Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]

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Sky1981 said:
Weird statement. We're coached by the same guy last year.
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If it's not coaching what is it? The Caf and Jose lead you to think it's because all of our players are shit. But how can those same players that got us 18 clean sheets suddenly turn to absolute shit. Defensively our squad has been decent for years. You may argue its because we were more defensive and protected our back four with De Gea pulling off miracle saves. I'd say that's exaggerated to a degree, but if that really is the case why hasn't Jose reverted back to that system to try and rescue the season?

Since West Brom beat us at the end of last season our Goal Difference has been appalling. Those last 6 games were pretty shit and it's carried on (actually got worse) this season with Faria leaving and Carrick/McKenna taking over.

We've had two games this season imo that when it's ended i've thought "we deserved that win". Burnley and Young Boys Away and we've played 21 games this season. Pogba is not the issue, granted he was terrible against Southampton. But why did he even last the full 90 minutes when we had Mata and Fred on the bench?

Anyway i'm done, talking about this just pisses me off because it's so clear in my mind that Jose manipulates every situation to HIS advantage. No matter the consequences to the players, team or fans. He's a selfish prick (I don't like him much).
 
Pogba is never a player who can upgrade or carry your team by himself.

Oppositely, he needs good players around him so can do something like 1+1>2. If you dont already have that starting 1, you cant depend on him to be that for you neither. Unfortunately, we dont have that 1.
 
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Sky1981 said:
Weird statement. We're coached by the same guy last year.
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Defending wasn't good last season. Expected goals this season is 23, actual goals against is 25. Last season expected goals against was almost 44, actual goals against was 28...
 
RedSky said:
If it's not coaching what is it? The Caf and Jose lead you to think it's because all of our players are shit. But how can those same players that got us 18 clean sheets suddenly turn to absolute shit. Defensively our squad has been decent for years. You may argue its because we were more defensive and protected our back four with De Gea pulling off miracle saves. I'd say that's exaggerated to a degree, but if that really is the case why hasn't Jose reverted back to that system to try and rescue the season?

Since West Brom beat us at the end of last season our Goal Difference has been appalling. Those last 6 games were pretty shit and it's carried on (actually got worse) this season with Faria leaving and Carrick/McKenna taking over.

We've had two games this season imo that when it's ended i've thought "we deserved that win". Burnley and Young Boys Away and we've played 21 games this season. Pogba is not the issue, granted he was terrible against Southampton. But why did he even last the full 90 minutes when we had Mata and Fred on the bench?

Anyway i'm done, talking about this just pisses me off because it's so clear in my mind that Jose manipulates every situation to HIS advantage. No matter the consequences to the players, team or fans. He's a selfish prick (I don't like him much).
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I wish he could manipulate us into wins though haha. Sadly he is just terrible to manipulate people in a good way even if he might try.
 
I haven't been following this thread much. Has it been confirmed that these quotes are actually true or is it more of a case "Mourinho is getting fired after the Newcastle game" type of information?
 
mitchmouse said:
just where are these stats of yours? and by the way, stats can prove anything you want them to. I suggest watching the game rather than the stats
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This weird sentiment is becoming more common on here.

No actually, I prefer stats that are completely objective to anyone's subjective assessment that is filtered through layers of bias, personal preferences, and the notoriously bad human memory.

Also good data and good stats can't be used to prove anything. The issue is anything on this forum is called a 'stat' even if it is something like "This was the first time since 1982 that United lose while wearing yellow socks".

As a side note, what's the point for asking for a stat and then pre-shitting all over it? :lol:
 
I doubt that most who want Pogba out also want us to field Fellers, McTominay and Matic in the middle on a regular basis. I don’t necessarily agree with those who want to ship him out, but it’s not unreasonable to think that Pogba simply isn’t the sort of player you can build a top level midfield combo around (with him as the main man, I mean).

He isn’t a midfield general – and he isn’t a playmaker either (not consistently, methodically). He is, essentially, what he was when he arrived from Juventus: a flair player best suited to a free role of sorts. This poses a problem, clearly – for whoever takes over after Mourinho. Do we have players of a sufficient calibre to complement Pogba in – and this has to be the aim – a top level midfield? Or do we have to spend a pretty penny bringing in someone else?

It might be more feasible to sell him (for what should be decent money at the very least) and bring in someone who is what he’s not, i.e. a midfield general or a playmaker.
 
JPRouve said:
The Zidane-Pogba talks wind me up so much. Pogba isn't as talented as Zidane, he isn't as complete as Zidane was and Zidane is arguably an all time great. As long as people continue to make these stupid comparisons they will get upset about "under performances".
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Why? Players also seem like captain marvel after they retired. The point I was making is you applaud Zidane as fans from the outside looking in but he was never a Paul Scholes or Roy Keane. He couldn’t operate in a two man midfield. So what’s wrong if one of our players needs that same freedom to be creative considering he’s the only Center midfield we’ve had who can manipulate the ball like a Zidane.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I doubt that most who want Pogba out also want us to field Fellers, McTominay and Matic in the middle on a regular basis. I don’t necessarily agree with those who want to ship him out, but it’s not unreasonable to think that Pogba simply isn’t the sort of player you can build a top level midfield combo around (with him as the main man, I mean).

He isn’t a midfield general – and he isn’t a playmaker either (not consistently, methodically). He is, essentially, what he was when he arrived from Juventus: a flair player best suited to a free role of sorts. This poses a problem, clearly – for whoever takes over after Mourinho. Do we have players of a sufficient calibre to complement Pogba in – and this has to be the aim – a top level midfield? Or do we have to spend a pretty penny bringing in someone else?

It might be more feasible to sell him (for what should be decent money at the very least) and bring in someone who is what he’s not, i.e. a midfield general or a playmaker.
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He’s not a problem if you know how to use him. KDB and Eriken are not problems for City and Spurs. So it’s all nonsense. We just need to catch up with the times instead of playing this backwards football.

Name a player you replace him with and this might make sense to me. But I doubt it. There’s not much midfielders his age and his level of ability.
 
Mainoldo said:
Why? Players also seem like captain marvel after they retired. The point I was making is you applaud Zidane as fans from the outside looking in but he was never a Paul Scholes or Roy Keane. He couldn’t operate in a two man midfield. So what’s wrong if one of our players needs that same freedom to be creative considering he’s the only Center midfield we’ve had who can manipulate the ball like a Zidane.
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Zidane could operate in a two men midfield and was pretty good in it.
 
That guy who said Zidane couldn't operate in a two man midfield probably never saw him play or is a teenager.
 
Sultan said:
Players can and should give 100% all the time. However, even by giving their all it quite doesn't always go right and mistakes do occur. The team is also very much out of tune which in turn makes matters worse for certain individuals players. Don't forget human beings are also emotional creatures and mindsets has a massive impact on performances. Mourinho with his blame all attitude, sniping and grievances is not helping matters.
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Look, all of that is of course true. This debate has been hopelessly skewed by the Mourinho vs Pogba dynamic that many posters in here insist on following. For what it's worth, I'm sick of José and rate Pogba very highly. I maintain, however, that it is possible for the simple, unqualified football fan, unversed in the intricacies of modern tactical thought, to watch a match and get a reasonable sense of how much a player is putting into his performance. I object to the habit of some posters, very much in vogue on the Caf at the moment, of dismissing concerns about Pogba's workrate in a supercillious and patronising manner as if the very suggestion shows a naive failure to grasp the modern game. He's a great talent and don't want him sold. He can be better, even in our current dysfunctional set up. He's demotivated but I feel he's waiting for things to change before revealing his true self in all it's glory and that's not good enough. I know he can pick out a defence-splitting pass, swat opposition players aside, stick it in the top corner from 30 yards. I want to see that he has character, what he's like faced with adversity. Do it in spite of Mou, in spite of being played out of position, in spite of the mediocrity of his team-mates.
 
Mainoldo said:
Two man midfield with who? Did they win titles in this two man midfield?
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That's a totally different point. France strength was in his midfield depth, which means that France generally played with three or four midfielders from Deschamps, Vieira, Petit, Karembeu, Zidane, Djorkaeff, Makélélé, Micoud and Boghossian, . And I'm probably forgetting someone.
It wasn't because Zidane couldn't play in a midfield two, Zidane was used on the left too, not because he couldn't play as a ten but because Zidane was the player who could be moved and still play at a high level in three different areas which allowed the team to generally field the best 11 possible from an individual and collective standpoint.
 
JPRouve said:
That's a totally different point. France strength was in his midfield depth, which means that France generally played with three or four midfielders from Deschamps, Vieira, Petit, Karembeu, Zidane, Djorkaeff, Makélélé, Micoud and Boghossian, . And I'm probably forgetting someone.
It wasn't because Zidane couldn't play in a midfield two, Zidane was used on the left too, not because he couldn't play as a ten but because Zidane was the player who could be moved and still play at a high level in three different areas which allowed the team to generally field the best 11 possible from an individual and collective standpoint.
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I said that because you said he did it successfully. But I’ve never seen him play in a two man midfield in my life. My original point was he had people protecting the middle to allow him to play his game.
 
There is no Mourinho v Pogba dynamic. He will absolutely be sacked come the end of the season unless he does the impossible and wins the CL. There is only a Pogba v Man United dynamic. Does he show on the pitch that he is willing to put out everything he can for the club? I don't think so.

He is another Ozil for me, a footballing savant that goes from pub player to unplayable depending on his mood. He also has the same shortcoming of slacking off in midfield off the ball which is simply not acceptable. Sure i'd want to keep him, but if the new manager decides that Pogba isnt in his plans and gets some good midfielders in then that's alright.
 
Mainoldo said:
I said that because you said he did it successfully. But I’ve never seen him play in a two man midfield in my life. My original point was he had people protecting the middle to allow him to play his game.
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No you said that he couldn't do it which is wrong and Zidane wasn't protected with France or even with Madrid. It wasn't the consideration, for France the principle was fairly direct the team had two strength depth in midfield and unbreakable defense, the gameplan was to stifle the opposition. Zidane's position and role depended on who was in form, it wasn't built for him since he was the one moving around, it wasn't meant to protect him either. Zidane would do his thing no matter what.
 
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Rash Decision said:
Not really, people have just been manipulated into thinking that Pogba's inconsistencies and alleged attitude problems outweigh his already excellent ability and even more massive potential. In fact if you were referring to the Mourinho backers, some of them would be the first to demand world class players in every position.
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Well I disagree we need more talent imo. Strikers like lukaku and midfielders like matic simply won't do but people forget these were Mourinho own bloody signings
 
Still ill said:
You dispute the notion that Pogba should give 100% when he puts on the jersey?
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There are circumstances in which I find it forgivable that he's unable to give 100%. Such as when his manager hampers the entire team with terrible tactics, tells the press that he is a virus, and he gets booed by fans who applaud said manager on top of that. It's not like this is the first time it has happened.
 
shamans said:
Well I disagree we need more talent imo. Strikers like lukaku and midfielders like matic simply won't do but people forget these were Mourinho own bloody signings
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Ah I was disagreeing that the people who want Pogba gone refuse to see we need world class players, not disagreeing that we need world class players.
 
JPRouve said:
No you said that he couldn't do it which is wrong and Zidane wasn't protected with France or even with Madrid. It wasn't the consideration, for France the principle was fairly direct the team had two strength depth in midfield and unbreakable defense, the gameplan was to stifle the opposition. Zidane's position and role depended on who was in form, it wasn't built for him since he was the one moving around, it wasn't meant to protect him either. Zidane would do his thing no matter what.
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He couldn’t do it. If he could he would have played at the two. He never did. He always had either Deschamps with Petit; Davids with Deschamps; Guti with Makelele type of midfield. So what are you talking about. It’s plan and simple he was never used as a box to box like we’ve had with Butt, Keane, Scholes etc. Yet we crave for that from him.
 
It’s hilarious people buy into the nonsense Mourinho is spouting. To be 8th in the table and 2 points ahead of Brighton is shambolic and manager should be ashamed.

Not surprised players are fed up with him, he constantly moans about effort and heart and yet he quit before the season even started.

There are two sides to every story, Mourinho has had his say with the ‘virus’ leaks, hopefully we get to hear the other side as well.
 
JPRouve said:
The game against Netherland had nothing to do with creativity and Pogba would have changed absolutely nothing. The issue was the lack of intensity and the fact that the team was late on every single duels.
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Perhaps, but France also struggled massively to create anything. It's the same with the world cup, take Pogba out and put in Nzonzi or whomever, suddenly Giroud, Mbappe and Griezmanns counter-attacks aren't as effective as you don't have Pogba's through balls.
 
Someone mentioned earlier in a thread that people should look at KDB to see how a creative player should play in comparison to Pogba.. Yet people forget that Mourinho sold KDB at Chelsea and gave him almost no chances because of pretty much the same thing as he's saying about Pogba, that KDB wasn't aggressive enough, that he lacked intensity.. I'm sure if you swapped Pogba and KDB right now Pogba would look great in Pep's team and KDB would struggle in ours.
 
If Jose really did call Pogba a virus then one of them has to go.
Surely Pogba can not play for a manager who called him such?
Surely Jose could not play a player he believes to be s ‘virus?
 
RedSky said:
I'm generalizing. Old Trafford was very pro Moyes right till the end from what I can remember. I might be wrong though as I have attempted to wipe most of that season from my memory.
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That's not correct. Match going fans at Old Trafford will cheer for the manager in a game but outside the stadium might want him gone. Not booing a managers doesn't mean you're necessarily for him being there. United fans are good in that regard. I can't imagine there being anyhing positive gained from your fans booing your own team or players.
 
Snow said:
That's not correct. Match going fans at Old Trafford will cheer for the manager in a game but outside the stadium might want him gone. Not booing a managers doesn't mean you're necessarily for him being there. United fans are good in that regard. I can't imagine there being anyhing positive gained from your fans booing your own team or players.
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The positive is that it shows unhappiness and forces action. Supporting Mourinho at matches isn’t doing the club any good at all. He’s doing a terrible job, he should be getting held accountable by the fans.
 
BluesJr said:
The positive is that it shows unhappiness and forces action. Supporting Mourinho at matches isn’t doing the club any good at all. He’s doing a terrible job, he should be getting held accountable by the fans.
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Yes it does club any good. It's always good for players to hear support. Fans can show unhappiness in plenty of other ways. It also doesn't matter a subset of fans are booing. It literally only does harm so unless the whole stadium is booing then don't be paying an expensive ticket in order to hurt your team. It's "free" to protest outside the stadium after work.
 
Just came across a highlight on Instagram of Kante's first goal for Chelsea...kids got one heck of an engine and judging by the way he jetted past that virus, one heck of an immune system too.

okay thankx byeee
 
AlecHDR said:
This weird sentiment is becoming more common on here.

No actually, I prefer stats that are completely objective to anyone's subjective assessment that is filtered through layers of bias, personal preferences, and the notoriously bad human memory.

Also good data and good stats can't be used to prove anything. The issue is anything on this forum is called a 'stat' even if it is something like "This was the first time since 1982 that United lose while wearing yellow socks".

As a side note, what's the point for asking for a stat and then pre-shitting all over it? :lol:
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because you fail on both accounts
 
Amir said:
There's a limit to what they can do when the team is so badly coached for so long. There are players who are better at taking the game on themselves when things are not working and maybe we don't have enough of them, but that's just thw way things are.
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I agree, it's just that some seem to put everything on the manager. If a player refuses to make an effort, there's not much any manager can do.
 
Jose’s been actively undermining him all season. He gave him the captaincy and then took it away in a needlessly public way. Then he gave it back, then it took it away again. Then he engineered a ridiculous row with him about his Instagram, then called him a virus and leaked it. Then dropped him again. All of this before fecking December. But this is all perfectly fine behaviour from a manager, because he wasn’t given what he wanted, see. It must be really annoying and demoralising to not be backed by your boss. Almost like it affects your performance or something.

At this point I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actively trying to force him out as petty reveange for not being allowed to sell him in the summer. Or just as a big feck you to the club for his perceived lack of back. “feck with me and I’ll ruin your best player!” He’s that low in my estimation now that I could believe it.
 
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Mockney said:
Jose’s been actively undermining him all season. He gave him the captaincy and then took it away in a needlessly public way. Then he gave it back, then it took it away again. Then he engineered a ridiculous row with him about his Instagram, then called him a virus and leaked it. Then dropped him again. All of this before fecking December. But this is all perfectly fine behaviour from a manager, because he wasn’t given what he wanted, see. It must be really annoying and demoralising to not be backed by your boss. Almost like it affects your performance or something.

At this point I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actively trying to force him out as petty reveange for not being allowed to sell him in the summer. Or just as a big feck you to the club for his perceived lack of back. “feck with me and I’ll ruin your best player!” He’s that low in my estimation now.
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Wow talk about a one sided argument. Or seeing what you want to see and not the full picture.
 
Mockney said:
Jose’s been actively undermining him all season. He gave him the captaincy and then took it away in a needlessly public way. Then he gave it back, then it took it away again. Then he engineered a ridiculous row with him about his Instagram, then called him a virus and leaked it. Then dropped him again. All of this before fecking December. But this is all perfectly fine behaviour from a manager, because he wasn’t given what he wanted, see. It must be really annoying and demoralising to not be backed by your boss. Almost like it affects your performance or something.

At this point I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actively trying to force him out as petty reveange for not being allowed to sell him in the summer. Or just as a big feck you to the club for his perceived lack of back. “feck with me and I’ll ruin your best player!” He’s that low in my estimation now that I could believe it.
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What's there to believe, it's blindingly obvious that (what you've outlined) is what he's trying to do
 
fezzerUTD said:
Wow talk about a one sided argument. Or seeing what you want to see and not the full picture.
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Mourinho's lap dog Duncan Castles has now come out with two hit pieces on Pogba. Mourinho centers the discussion around Pogba not being committed even though he's been one of our better players this season.
 
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