Pogba plays with Fellaini and Matic though . We didn't see him play with Herrera and Fred . We've seen if you've got other players doing the leg work in midfield pogba can be very effective as seen at the world cup . We played midfield of Herrera, Pogba and Mata in lots of games when he came and it was very effective . With Lingard, Rashford and Ibrahimovic ahead there was a lot of fluidity in the attack but lack of clinical finishing. It's total disaster if you play the slow and pedestrian midfield we have right now
Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]
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I agree. Even though I believe people are a bit too harsh on Matic. I'd say the abdomen injury has been hard to recover from and not write him off. Fellaini should never be in a utd midfield. But again I have to say, Pogba is not creative enough to be carried the way he wants to be by other midfielders. He has not linked up well with an attacker since he came here. I'm just over all of this drama at the club at the moment. The successful midfieds I know never had players with this superstar personality that Pogba displays. Hardworkers (Xavi and Iniesta are also hard workers, Pirlo is the sole exception).
How is Pogba less hard working than Xavi or Iniesta? Having a superstar personality and being hardworking are not mutually exclusive.
A quick look at distance covered also shows Pogba, Iniesta and Xavi covering very similar distance of 11 KM in their respective peaks.
It’s funny you saying Pogba doesn’t link up with the attackers. He constantly has more assists on average a season than those names you mentioned. Not saying he is better than them. But for example since he joined united he has always had more assists than Kroos and Modric who played with Ronaldo. You get the drift? Saying he is not creative is funny. We all saw number of balls he gave Ibrahimovic which was wasted not to mention the assists numbers he stillcame up with. I think he was behind only debruyne and I think one other player in assists last season. Sterling or Dele Ali.
Maureen laying his foundations for a payoff once we are eliminated from top 4 contention.
This is trash if we’re being honest here. A boss is never going to change, so nobody better speak up? And if Pogba’s not qualified to bring up legitimate concerns, then what the hell are we all doing here?
The world moves too fast for people like this to keep up.
A World Cup where he showed immense composure and resoluteness too!
The boy has got it all. Got to simply laugh at the jokers who are suggesting that he's multiple tiers below Essien and Yaya Toure
He has every right to bring up concerns regarding the team considering Mourinho has us 7th with a negative goal difference. He's a world cup winner that has worked with various top class coaches and should speak up before Mourinho has us in 17th in the table like his previous disastrous sacking at Chelsea.
Pogba has worked with Conte, Allegri, Deschamps etc and never had a problem. Conte was also a very demanding coach but Pogba had no problem as far as we know.
Mourinho on the other hand has had plenty of problems with players and in his career. Now go figure..
Pogba has worked with Conte, Allegri, Deschamps etc and never had a problem. Conte was also a very demanding coach but Pogba had no problem as far as we know.
Mourinho on the other hand has had plenty of problems with players and in his career. Now go figure..
Essien is nothing like Pogba as far as playing style goes. It's quite silly to even compare them.
Those who are blind supporters of Mourinho will inevitably say that. And those who hate him with a passion will say the opposite. If we don't do much better, they'll say Mourinho left us in a mess with his signings. If we do well, then they will point to how he didn't get the players to perform to their max.
Hopefully there are some sensible ones who won't let their agenda get in the way of reasoning though. And it shouldn't all be about Mourinho anyway. If we are still in the same place a few years from now, we should be looking at the bigger picture and talking about how to make structural changes to make the management more effective. I'm not trying to absolve Mourinho of any blame here. He obviously hasn't done well with his signings and has handled things badly at times. But if we're on our fourth to fifth manager after SAF while nothing else with how the club is run has changed and we're still struggling on the pitch, then you can easilly say that none of the managers had the best conditions to work here.
Like I said, if Mourinho didn't have this kind of personality, he would probably never have been as successful in the first place. When it's bad it can get really bad, but when things work then there are not many better than him. Yes he did buy the players but he obviously didn't know how they were going to get along and how they were gonna respond to him.
I'd bring in Tyson Fury to give the pre-match team talk. If that fails, I'd blame Mourinho for bringing in Tyson Fury to give the pre-match team talk.
Pogba was in the goddamn World XI before we bought him, at 23.
And people are now being Mourinho cultists and saying he's not good enough. WAKE UP! Stop being brainwashed!
And people are now being Mourinho cultists and saying he's not good enough. WAKE UP! Stop being brainwashed!
Jose fans. They will blame everyone and everything except the man in charge.
I'm Jose out and I'm not convinced by Pogba either. Granted United are no Juve or France in terms of personnel, he still makes way too many stupid mistakes for my liking. The kinds of mistakes that had no influence from his teammates playing poorly.
Did you also imply Pogba is all flash and no substance? Even Pogba's biggest fan will tell he made lot of mistakes and his performance in few games are nothing but disgrace, doesn't mean he is just flash. He is our best out field player and if I'm not wrong he was involved in more goals than any player since he joined and he is a midfielder.
There are a few sheep on this forum. I wouldn't name them but their opinions change with Jose's. When Jose was talking about Pogba being a potential d'or winner in the future or how "we are a different team with or without him", they wouldn't let anyone say a bad word in Pogba's dishonor. Any criticism of Pogba was met with disdain or mockery. But since Jose has turned on Pogba (Since Sanchez's arrival), now he is the virus that we need to get rid of. Pogba is biggest culprit of our current predicament.
Think I have met saner Trump fans. The Jose fellators on this site are pathetic.
Eh I wouldn't use that exact phrase but a lot of his mistakes that stick out in my memory the most are where he tries to pull off a YouTube highlight move and fecks it up. Furthermore, we're exposed more to his social media and marketing and that's another source of that flashy vibe that rubs off negatively on fans, especially after he has shit games. So I can see how someone would say something like that. Also, him being our best midfield player with the team we have is not much to brag about. If he needs world class players around him to be consistently world class, then that tells me he's not the answer for us. He would be good for us had we had a more proper squad, but we don't, and we need players right now who can be leaders and be the one who teammates depend on to elevate their game. Even removing the virus that is Jose won't change that fact.
Well we should have quality too considering that the special one had spent a looping 180m in that CM.
Don't take me wrong, everyone had initial problems with Pogba. The guy is an illusion. People see a big guy whose fast, a good dribbler and has exquisite technique and they think that he can play anywhere across midfield. Its not the case. Having said that both Allegri and Conte were able to take the best out of him and he became a protagonist in both systems. Same thing about France.
So taking in consideration that the majority of our players had regressed under Moaninho Id say its more the case of the special one failing to take the best out of Pogba then the WC winner not being good enough. As Mino correctly said, Pogba will be snatched off our hands the moment we put him on the market. Can we really say the same thing about Mou's favourites in CM? (Chelsea reject and Fellaini?)
To be fair I don't think Pogba has surpassed either. Though he has the potential to. He isn't yet at that untouchable status where he is automatically a shoe-in in any world XIs. his time at Juve had a lot to do with other players doing the heavy lifting in midfield for him and he hasn't shown that discipline yet in his time here. While he had a good WC too I wouldn't say in a few years it was THAT good that the entire tournament would be remembered for his domineering performances.
Well you need good team to shine and that's common for all players with very few exceptions. It's not even about just world class players, when you play in such a static team with almost no one making any runs behind the defense or move quickly in a position to receive passes then there isn't any midfielder who can do much here.
Also it's sort of funny how you downplayed his involvement in goals, he is not our best midfielder, he is our best outfield player who contributes to more goals than most of our attackers, which should answer where is the problem.
I will never understand why people even care about his social media, it's his life and his wish. It's not as if he is tweeting or posting on Instagram when he is playing the game. Once he is off the pitch, then he can be active on social media.
Also if you didn't use the phrase then I don't know why you replied to my post as I was talking about that particular phrase or words close to that.
This is Mourinho while at the club, just imagine all the poison he'll spill once he's sacked..
This is a great post that sums up the situation at hand, perfectly. Mourinho needs a scapegoat to deflect from his own responsibility and who's better for that role than our highest profile, marquee signing.
I swear if Mourinho is to come out and say "Earth's flat" them apologists would rally and form those Saturn rings around him in order to defend their idol.
We need a man manager to get the best out of our best players, like Pogba. Surely that is the managers key role?
You think Zidane done all the work? Plently players allowed him to play same for Toure. He’s only not here because he plays in a crap team. We need him not the other way round.
A World Cup where he showed immense composure and resoluteness too!
The boy has got it all. Got to simply laugh at the jokers who are suggesting that he's multiple tiers below Essien and Yaya Toure
Well, Yaya Toure was far better actually. You are going to struggle to find any neutral fan arguing about that.
Bit strange how if you think Pogba has been shite for us and doesn't want to be here that you're labelled a Mourinho cultist.
It can't be just about what you actually see
Maybe that's the modern football fan.
I don't know what's worse, the Mourinho cultist or those who come across hating him. Both very strange mind frames
Every man and his dog knows Pogba doesn't want to be here. His problem is Barcelona don't want him and can't afford him
It can't be just about what you actually see
Maybe that's the modern football fan.
I don't know what's worse, the Mourinho cultist or those who come across hating him. Both very strange mind frames
Every man and his dog knows Pogba doesn't want to be here. His problem is Barcelona don't want him and can't afford him
It does have to be noted that Mourinho's success has been massively different in the second half of his career than it was in the first half. In the first 8 or so years (Porto, Chelsea, Inter and the first year or two at Real) he had incredible success. He was undisputedly one of the best and most successful managers in the world, up there with Fergie and Guardiola who arrived towards the end of that period. He looked a real possibility of going on to be up there with the greatest of all time.
However, in the following 7 or 8 years (the last year at Real, Chelsea and here at Utd) it's been completely different. He did get one premier league win, but even that was during a period where the league was at it's lowest quality since the premier league began. He also did win the Europa League with us, but considering we were comfortably the best team in the competition it would have been quite a failure not to. Otherwise he's ended up with massive issues with all three clubs, having far less success on the field than he did in the earlier part of his career, and falling out with most of the players (especially the best players) at every club. At Chelsea and Man Utd at least, he has also proven incapable of dropping players who are massively under-performing, and just in general he seems to be struggling somewhat to adjust to how an increasing amount of teams are playing.
I was one of the ones who wanted Mourinho here. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that the issues he had at Real Madrid and Chelsea were due to them being clubs where player power was just too strong. Then I saw the fact that we improved in his first season, then further improved in his second season, as a sign that he would get there even though I did have a number of issues with what he was doing. Even at the beginning of this season when he was blatantly trying to make a point by playing midfielders in the defence at the expense of results, I wasn't happy but I was hoping he'd get his head screwed on right and get on with it. However, he hasn't. He's continued making ridiculous decisions on the field, making ridiculous comments about our players to the media (some directly, some 'leaks' which are obviously from him or his team), completely unable to get us playing as a team, completely unable to get the best out of any of our players, and just in general being a failure and creating a toxic atmosphere at the club.
I do have questions about Pogba's mentality, but the emphasis there needs to be the word 'questions'. We don't know whether this is the true Pogba and whether he'd have these issues forever and under any managers. Or whether the issues with Pogba are only happening because of mismanagement above him. The fact that he hasn't had these issues under any other manager including some others who can be quite strict, and that he has been our best player even with the issues with this manager, indicate to me there is a significant chance that he will come good if we get our shit together on and off the field. It's not a guarantee. But the odds are significantly in his favour.
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And that's with 3 months out injured and playing in a defensive setup. Hed rack up 20 assists playing at City with Sterling, Sane, Aguero and I'm not joking
Bye bye to both of them. They are both toxic.
Do we?
Yes, because of the problems with this manager and our lack of success on the field, chances are he'd prefer to be elsewhere right now. But those are problems we can solve, and if we did I doubt he would want to leave. Basically the same issue we are likely having with the rest of our players who 'deserve' better than how we are performing (sadly that is probably only De Gea and Martial).
The fact both Pogba and Mourinho have split the supporters so much shows they both need to leave.
Pogba has made a show of this club over two separate occasions, he needs to binned off ASAP. For a professional to down tools because they don't like their manager is pathetic and is an insult to the fans. It wouldn't be tolerated in any other walk of life so why excuses are made for a multi million pound footballer I don't know. He has no respect for the club and the fans, he just wants to build brand Pogba.
For all the stick Fellaini gets at least he plays for the shirt and fans, he isn't going to win any awards but I want players with that kind of mentality not over inflated egos and prima donnas.
Pogba has made a show of this club over two separate occasions, he needs to binned off ASAP. For a professional to down tools because they don't like their manager is pathetic and is an insult to the fans. It wouldn't be tolerated in any other walk of life so why excuses are made for a multi million pound footballer I don't know. He has no respect for the club and the fans, he just wants to build brand Pogba.
For all the stick Fellaini gets at least he plays for the shirt and fans, he isn't going to win any awards but I want players with that kind of mentality not over inflated egos and prima donnas.
I can't remember LvG saying much about us after he was sacked other then the way it went. So there could be a deal part of the pay-off, that they should avoid media and bad things they say about Man Utd?
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Boy, you would think he would go the route of handing in a transfer request then...you know, as opposed to expressing the frustration of every United fan across the globe directly to the manager we all (or nearly all) want out. It's almost as if he doesn't want to leave the club but wants to make it better or give something more to the fans.
Three of the club's best ever are Cantona Beckham and Ronaldo, and a little bit of player ego has you all riled up? How come Pogba bothers you so much?? I can't put my finger on it, but there's something different about Pogba. Difference for the other 3 was they weren't playing in a midtable side like Pogba is. If you like players like Fellaini and Young and whatever other soldiers get you off, then why is Man Utd your team? Why not watch a real midtable side of jammy grafters like Everton or something?
We're a club built for egos that needs big egos to set us apart. Fergie always had them and/or sought them. The problem is the lowest common denominator in the squad today is much worse than it was then. The Fellainis and the Youngs and the Valencias and the Lukakus and McTominays and Lingards - soldiers that play for the shirt as you like - are not Scholes, Keane, Neville, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Cole, Yorke, Giggs, Carrick, Stam...and well I could go on but you SHOULD get the point.
Pogba hasn't covered himself with glory at all, he's been a bit of a prick with his performances (omg racist!!!).
However Mourinho is by far the biggest problem and needs to go, if Pogba is still the same under the new manager then feck him off too. But for now I'd definitely keep him over Jose.
However Mourinho is by far the biggest problem and needs to go, if Pogba is still the same under the new manager then feck him off too. But for now I'd definitely keep him over Jose.
I was basically trying to say that you don’t have to be a Mourinho fan to think that Pogba is just a flashy player. But i think you take the comment of “all flash and no substance” too literally. There’s clearly some aubstance there but it’s just not enough for a lot of us. I see your point about how static we are though, and that’s why I’d rather see Mourinho out first. But I don’t see myself missing Pogba if he goes too. I’m willing to be proven wrong though.
Good point of view, with his personality, there is a great risk that the same thing would happen in Real.
We all know our performances and stats are like a lower league club. I support Pogba in we shouldn't be playing this type of football.
I'm willing to give Pogba a chance under a new manager, with instructions to play attacking winning football. The fans at OT and around the world require it.
That's assuming he doesn't want to go and wants to help United back to the top. I'm expecting Zidane to bring him back to Juve and he also gets chance to play with Ronaldo or one of the Spanish two make a play for him.
I'm willing to give Pogba a chance under a new manager, with instructions to play attacking winning football. The fans at OT and around the world require it.
That's assuming he doesn't want to go and wants to help United back to the top. I'm expecting Zidane to bring him back to Juve and he also gets chance to play with Ronaldo or one of the Spanish two make a play for him.
Another thread ruined by brain dead political-esque false equivalences of being Mourinho out or in. There are plenty of people including me that have not been taken to both Mourinho and Pogba. If we sack Mourinho and sell Pogba to fund the building of the next manager's team then I would not take issue with it. If we sack Mourinho and keep Pogba then I also dont take issue with that.
It is also flat out false that its all down to big bad Mourinho when Pogba plays badly. When he loses the ball and throws a strop at the ref and walks back into position, that is on him. Unless you have end product like Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar you can't get away with that. And all 3 of those are attackers, a midfielder should do that once in a blue moon not every other game.
It is also flat out false that its all down to big bad Mourinho when Pogba plays badly. When he loses the ball and throws a strop at the ref and walks back into position, that is on him. Unless you have end product like Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar you can't get away with that. And all 3 of those are attackers, a midfielder should do that once in a blue moon not every other game.
Interested to see if he starts him tonight. On one side his attitude and performance against the Saints would warrant him being dropped, on the other side if Mou did bench him, the press would have a field day with this Pogba is a virgin comment.
If you genuinely believe he wants to be here, fair enough.
You're wrong but, fair enough
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