[RedSky]

The only Schneiderlin I have seen is in our team. I thought he was a DM and we bought him for that specific role. Now I read people saying he's a B2B CM. So, thats him, Herrera, Fellaini and I guess Blind and Schweinsteiger best as a B2B. Isn't that guy Sanches the same too? Am I on the wrong track here?

14/15:

1 DM - 2 games

2 DMs - Alderweireld / 2 games
2 DMs - Wanyama / 10 games
2 DMs - Davis / 3 games
2 DMs - Cork / 1 game

2 CM's - Davis / 6 games

So he's almost always played alongside a midfielder. Played with Wanyama the most when utilised as a Defensive Midfielder and played only with Cork when used as a Central Midfielder. When used as a CM, Wanyama was used as the DM. So I would say that Wanyama was used as the genuine DM and Schneiderlin used as the more attacking player. So what that suggests is that he needs a player like Wanyama to get the best out of him and the closest we have is Jones, but he's made out of glass.

We basically need a Wanyama type signing to fill in at DM imo. I actually think its an obvious hole in our squad atm.

 

[Sb_16]

We basically need a Wanyama type signing to fill in at DM imo. I actually think its an obvious hole in our squad atm.

Was that stat put 'on-call'? It must have took you some time to gather.

If he needs a DM then there's a problem since in addition to a DM we need a CM and AM as well.

 

[JPRouve]

Was that stat put 'on-call'? It must have took you some time to gather.

If he needs a DM then there's a problem since in addition to a DM we need a CM and AM as well.

He doesn't need a DM, he is like Atletico Madrid midfielders. None of them are DMs, they all play as B2B and share the defensive work, put someone like Kondogbia, Matuidi or Saul next to him, give them group instructions instead of individual instructions and they are fine. I think that currently we are emprisoning players in boxes and they are not comfortable in them.

 

[Sb_16]

He doesn't need a DM, he is like Atletico Madrid midfielders. None of them are DMs, they all play as B2B and share the defensive work, put someone like Kondogbia, Matuidi or Saul next to him, give them group instructions instead of individual instructions and they are fine. I think that currently we are emprisoning players in boxes and they are not comfortable in them.

There's still hope then.

In your opinion, will he be first choice for United or a rotational player at best?

 

[JPRouve]

There's still hope then.

In your opinion, will he be first choice for United or a rotational player at best?

He could be a starter in the right system. The problem is that LVG is using him as if he was Van Bommel but he isn't, he is the same type of midfielder than Gabi, Tiago, Saul, Kondogbia, Nainggolan, send him to Atletico and he will be fine, but with us I don't know.

 

[RedSky]

He doesn't need a DM, he is like Atletico Madrid midfielders. None of them are DMs, they all play as B2B and share the defensive work, put someone like Kondogbia, Matuidi or Saul next to him, give them group instructions instead of individual instructions and they are fine. I think that currently we are emprisoning players in boxes and they are not comfortable in them.

Disagree. The whole point of having a squad is providing the Manager with options for tactics. Currently we have no player that plays with defense in mind (look at Dier for Spurs who plays as a holding DM). We have no player like that at all, Schneiderlin will never be that kind of player, none of our current midfielders are. This is the reason why when we play more open football we get carved apart on the break because our midfielders simply aren't good enough defensively, none of them have the defensive instinct to cover in the right areas. The only one who does (Carrick) simply isn't mobile enough anymore to play that role.

What we need is a Dier type player who will cover areas of the pitch while our fullbacks/midfielders press up the pitch. The only player we have in our squad that can play in that way is Jones.

You mention Matuidi but he has Motta in DM. Inter have barely used Kondogbia as a DM and Saul has been used on the wing mainly this season as they've been using Gabi and Fernandez as deep lying DMs.

I'd be looking at players like Medel, Gustavo, Fabinho etc

Use one of those as the holding DM. Then use 2 of our existing CM's infront of them. Provides more balance imo and makes the game easier for players to understand as they'd know that the holding DM will always cover allowing the midfielders to worry about the attacking play. That's just my opinion though. I think there are times when you look at our side and the players have no real understanding of what they're meant to be doing. Who's meant to be covering, who's meant to be attacking.

 

[Nighteyes]

We can't keep on buying players to cover for multiple weaknesses of existing players in the squad. That's how you end up with players who are decent but never good enough for the standard we need to aim at. If we need to buy another limited CM to get the best out of a very limited water carrier then we might as well set up camp for 4th place (If that) for the foreseeable future.

 

[JPRouve]

Disagree. The whole point of having a squad is providing the Manager with options for tactics. Currently we have no player that plays with defense in mind (look at Dier for Spurs who plays as a holding DM). We have no player like that at all, Schneiderlin will never be that kind of player, none of our current midfielders are. This is the reason why when we play more open football we get carved apart on the break because our midfielders simply aren't good enough defensively, none of them have the defensive instinct to cover in the right areas. The only one who does (Carrick) simply isn't mobile enough anymore to play that role.

What we need is a Dier type player who will cover areas of the pitch while our fullbacks/midfielders press up the pitch. The only player we have in our squad that can play in that way is Jones.

You mention Matuidi but he has Motta in DM. Inter have barely used Kondogbia as a DM and Saul has been used on the wing mainly this season as they've been using Gabi and Fernandez as deep lying DMs.

I'd be looking at players like Medel, Gustavo, Fabinho etc

Use one of those as the holding DM. Then use 2 of our existing CM's infront of them. Provides more balance imo and makes the game easier for players to understand as they'd know that the holding DM will always cover allowing the midfielders to worry about the attacking play. That's just my opinion though. I think there are times when you look at our side and the players have no real understanding of what they're meant to be doing. Who's meant to be covering, who's meant to be attacking.

I don't know how you can disagree with something I haven't said. I said he doesn't a DM which is different from we don't need a DM.

 

[United22]

Maybe try play Blind alongside Schneiderlin?

 

[RedSky]

We can't keep on buying players to cover for multiple weaknesses of existing players in the squad. That's how you end up with players who are decent but never good enough for the standard we need to aim at. If we need to buy another limited CM to get the best out of a very limited water carrier then we might as well set up camp for 4th place (If that) for the foreseeable future.

But it's the same for all of our midfielders though Akash. They're all of the same mould, they'd all like to push up the field rather than sit back and shield. What we need is to stop buying the same type of midfielder and go for someone who will sit back and shield our defense. We used to be able to rely on Carrick to do that job because despite him not being great at tackling, he was very good at covering the right positions and intercepting. But he's 34 and he's been immobile for a few seasons now it's no real surprise that we get better results when he is played though.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we bought an actual defensive minded midfielder we'd not only have a far better balanced first team but we'd look more stable in defense and better in attack as it frees up our other midfielders. Schneiderlin as proved at Southampton would work very well alongside that type of player which then allows us to play a more attacking player in front of them in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Would he do as good a job as Herrera/Schweinsteiger etc i'm not sure.

Maybe try play Blind alongside Schneiderlin?

Well yeah could do that if we sign a replacement CB. That would be an option.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Maybe try play Blind alongside Schneiderlin?

That's what I would try. But that would require Rojo or Jones (ha) getting back fit to play CB.

 

[JPRouve]

But it's the same for all of our midfielders though Akash. They're all of the same mould, they'd all like to push up the field rather than sit back and shield. What we need is to stop buying the same type of midfielder and go for someone who will sit back and shield our defense. We used to be able to rely on Carrick to do that job because despite him not being great at tackling, he was very good at covering the right positions and intercepting. But he's 34 and he's been immobile for a few seasons now it's no real surprise that we get better results when he is played though.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we bought an actual defensive minded midfielder we'd not only have a far better balanced first team but we'd look more stable in defense and better in attack as it frees up our other midfielders. Schneiderlin as proved at Southampton would work very well alongside that type of player which then allows us to play a more attacking player in front of them in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Would he do as good a job as Herrera/Schweinsteiger etc i'm not sure.

Or you change the defensive schemes, you don't have to play with a recognized DM, Atletico doesn't play with one and the Midfield Pogba-Vidal-Pirlo didn't had one too. Thiago Motta like Carrick are deep lying playmakers, you can use this type of player or you can just fill the team with grafters and let the entire group of midfielders shield the defense, there isn't one way to protect a defense.

For example, it's perfectly possible for us to play with a flat midfield made of Blind-Schneiderlin-Herrera, they respectively protect the gap between the LFB/LCB, LCB/RCB and RCB/RFB, on top of that you defend with a narrow back four where the fulbacks defend aggressively from inside to outside and when the ball carrier is in the channel, Blind or Herrera trap him from the inside and the "winger" traps him from the top, obviously you need grafters to do that and a lot of tactical training.

 

[RedSky]

Or you change the defensive schemes, you don't have to play with a recognized DM, Atletico doesn't play with one and the Midfield Pogba-Vidal-Pirlo didn't had one too. Thiago Motta like Carrick are deep lying playmakers, you can use this type of player or you can just fill the team with grafters and let the entire group of midfielders shield the defense, there isn't one way to protect a defense.

For example, it's perfectly possible for us to play with a flat midfield made of Blind-Schneiderlin-Herrera, they respectively protect the gap between the LFB/LCB, LCB/RCB and RCB/RFB, on top of that you defend with a narrow back four where the fulbacks defend aggressively from inside to outside and when the ball carrier is in the channel, Blind or Herrera trap him from the inside and the "winger" traps him from the top, obviously you need grafters to do that and a lot of tactical training.

I'd always have a defensive minded midfield player either on the pitch or on the bench. That's just my opinion and currently we can't.

 

[JPRouve]

I'd always have a defensive minded midfield player either on the pitch or on the bench. That's just my opinion and currently we can't.

I agree that gives you options, but that wasn't the point, the point was on how to make Schneiderlin relevant.

 

[Nighteyes]

But it's the same for all of our midfielders though Akash. They're all of the same mould, they'd all like to push up the field rather than sit back and shield. What we need is to stop buying the same type of midfielder and go for someone who will sit back and shield our defense. We used to be able to rely on Carrick to do that job because despite him not being great at tackling, he was very good at covering the right positions and intercepting. But he's 34 and he's been immobile for a few seasons now it's no real surprise that we get better results when he is played though.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we bought an actual defensive minded midfielder we'd not only have a far better balanced first team but we'd look more stable in defense and better in attack as it frees up our other midfielders. Schneiderlin as proved at Southampton would work very well alongside that type of player which then allows us to play a more attacking player in front of them in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Would he do as good a job as Herrera/Schweinsteiger etc i'm not sure.

And that's the big problem isn't it. And not just with our midfield. We have a striker who cannot score, #10 who cannot create, a defender who cannot defend and a winger who cannot beat his man. It's a farce. What you are suggesting is fine but just look at how it sounds. You're saying to we need to get in a defensive minded limited player to get the best out of another limited player. That, for me, is unacceptable. We should be going out and buying a player who's defensively good and is good the ball. Not trying to cover the weaknesses of our current players by signing even more dross.

 

[RedSky]

I agree that gives you options, but that wasn't the point, the point was on how to make Schneiderlin relevant.

Yes and that imo is to have a defensive minded midfielder sat next to him. That's my opinion. How we've used him so far hasn't worked, it hasn't really worked with Herrera either.

 

[acnumber9]

Yes and that imo is to have a defensive minded midfielder sat next to him. That's my opinion. How we've used him so far hasn't worked, it hasn't really worked with Herrera either.

If that's the case it will never work for him at Utd. He isn't anywhere near good enough on the ball to play with an even more defensive player than him.

 

[RedSky]

And that's the big problem isn't it. And not just with our midfield. We have a striker who cannot score, #10 who cannot create, a defender who cannot defend and a winger who cannot beat his man. It's a farce. What you are suggesting is fine but just look at how it sounds. You're saying to we need to get in a defensive minded limited player to get the best out of another limited player. That, for me, is unacceptable. We should be going out and buying a player who's defensively good and is good the ball. Not trying to cover the weaknesses of our current players by signing even more dross.

Don't agree with that. Dier is a fine example of a defensive minded limited player who allows the rest of the team to play. It's about balance and tactics, just because you may decide to use a DM doesn't mean it's a drawback and a failing of other players. It's how we used to use Carrick and he went through most of his United career unloved by the masses because of having that label stuck on him. Balance is the key word in football and often where most teams fail at. They go for the best players and not the best balance.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes and that imo is to have a defensive minded midfielder sat next to him. That's my opinion. How we've used him so far hasn't worked, it hasn't really worked with Herrera either.

Your solution will only expose everyone, it will expose the DM defensively and Schneiderlin offensively, Herrera and Schneiderlin are hybrids and we ask them to play like specialists that's why they are not doing their best, we need to change the dynamic of our midfield, bring an other hybrid and play him with the other two, bring a winger that can beat his man like Martial does on the left and bring a striker in the ilk of Griezmann and we will see a different team.

Our team is more Atletico Madrid then Barcelona but we are still deluding ourselves.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Defensively we need to revert to 3 at the back.

If we get an LCB then surely blind can play a toggle between CDM/CB. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he turned oht to be the best at it.

 

[Kostur]

Defensively we need to revert to 3 at the back.

If we get an LCB then surely blind can play a toggle between CDM/CB. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he turned oht to be the best at it.

Jesus no.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Jesus no.

Not permanently as in change our formation. When we defend - the extra CDM needs to play in front of the 2 central defenders & mimic 3 at the back.

Blind has shown enough times that he can move the ball out from the back to help speed up our attacks.

 

[Roux]

Why on earth does he give away soo many unnecessary fouls? He's done it many times this season and when he came on against Chelsea he did it a few times, right on the edge of the box too. Absolute stupidity - brought on needless pressure.

 

[Eckers99]

I think all of this talk about having to adapt formations and tactics to get the best out of him is slightly worrying. It's not like we're talking about changing the makeup of the side to accommodate a Neymar or Messi. He's a workmanlike midfielder who should be able to do a decent enough job anywhere in the centre of the park. The fact that he can't says to me that he's just not that good. He's been absolutely anonymous far too often this season and just hasn't worked out so far.

 

[Nighteyes]

Don't agree with that. Dier is a fine example of a defensive minded limited player who allows the rest of the team to play. It's about balance and tactics, just because you may decide to use a DM doesn't mean it's a drawback and a failing of other players. It's how we used to use Carrick and he went through most of his United career unloved by the masses because of having that label stuck on him. Balance is the key word in football and often where most teams fail at. They go for the best players and not the best balance.

Dier is not a very good example at all. Look at the four players in front of Dier against Watford - Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Dembele. All of them attacking midfielders and good with the ball.

What you are saying is we sign someone even more defensively minded than Schneiderlin and play him further forward. This might have worked had Schneiderlin been good on the ball but he's not even close to any of the Spurs as far as his ability on the ball goes. It would be far too defensive and limited.

Carrick is the example we should follow i.e get someone who's defensively good and very good on the ball to go with it.

 

[RedSky]

Dier is not a very good example at all. Look at the four players in front of Dier against Watford - Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Dembele. All of them attacking midfielders and good with the ball.

What you are saying is we sign someone even more defensively minded than Schneiderlin and play him further forward. This might have worked had Schneiderlin been good on the ball but he's not even close to any of the Spurs as far as his ability on the ball goes. It would be far too defensive and limited.

Carrick is the example we should follow i.e get someone who's defensively good and very good on the ball to go with it.

Diers played alongside Carroll a fair bit this season and tends to partner up with Dembele. Dier sits back while Dembele moves forward but he doesn't venture as far forward anymore than he used to at the start of the season. Herrera imo would work very well alongside Blind for example replicating the same system. Schneiderlin would do the job as long as he regained his passing form from Southampton. But if we're playing tough away games then switching out Herrera with Schneiderlin would work well imo.

I think ultimately the issue at the moment with Schneiderlin is that he's struggling to get back to his Southampton form. He was a decent passer for them but has struggled a bit recently. It's only a blip.

 

[prath92]

He was good when he played with schweini. Because he could be the destroyer and schweini used to take care of passing, linking attack and defence and running all around the pitch in support of players. Neither Fellaini, Carrick nor Herrera does it well enough like schweini does.

 

[m1y2]

I think he's done pretty well, good positioning wise, crisp in tackle and plays it first time, quick, doesn't take 17 touches like maestro Carrick

 

[Devil81]

I think we always look poor in midfield whenever he's playing, his passing ability is awful.

I hate to say it but from what I've seen this season, Fellaini is a better option.

 

[#07]

His use of the ball is abysmal.

 

[Zoo]

I think he's done pretty well, good positioning wise, crisp in tackle and plays it first time, quick, doesn't take 17 touches like maestro Carrick

But he tends to play it sideways unlike Carrick who usually tries to look forward.

 

[Baxter]

His use of the ball is abysmal.

Rubbish. He's been better than Carrick so far. And the goal came from a great forward ball to Martial.

 

[m1y2]

But he tends to play it sideways unlike Carrick who usually tries to look forward.

yeah and thats why he played more forward passes than Carrick

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think we always look poor in midfield whenever he's playing, his passing ability is awful.

I hate to say it but from what I've seen this season, Fellaini is a better option.

For all his failings at least Fellani doesn't look inhibited by the shirt.

 

[Manny]

Poor as usual.

He just crowds out Carrick in the centre of the pitch instead of giving Carrick space to play.

 

[arthurka]

Apart from couple of passes he's been good.

 

[ivaldo]

Him and Carrick have been terrible in the middle so far.

 

[Devil may care]

He looks so nervous.

 

[Zoo]

yeah and thats why he played more forward passes than Carrick

We're a far better team with Carrick in it, amazing after coming up to a decade that there are still United fans that don't get him.

 

[El Zoido]

He's not bad he's just really safe, doesn't offer enough.