[finneh]

I like him, think some of the criticism is overblown and some of it ignores the fact he's still settling, but I've been a bit disappointed with how often players seem to run through him, or generally just get break through our midfield without that much resistance. As Carrick fades and Schweinsteiger can't do it physically any more, that's something we need him to improve on.

Don't get me wrong he's a good player, but I just think he needs creativity around him to get the best out of his abilities. Not to mention that at So'ton he also probably had a bit more room and their counter attacking system meant he not only had more options available, but also that the options were easier to find. As we often see with our system the likes of Carrick and Schweinsteiger are tasked with needing to find pin-point passes in order to break down the opposition, which isn't a feature of Schneiderlin's game.

The problem occurs when Schneiderlin combines with a player who does this, it renders his role very, very limited (It's basically 50% of what Roy Keane did) . He doesn't take the responsibility of (or isn't takes with) bringing the ball out of the deep positions and he doesn't take the responsibility of (or isn't takes with) playing incisive passes to create opportunities. He tends to pass the ball square and allow others to do this, which would be fine if he had attacking players around him who could take that burden.

As I said before he is a very useful player to have. I'd play Schweinsteiger and Herrera against teams we expect to beat, but whose pressing game would cause Carrick problems; I'd play Carrick and Herrera against teams that will sit back and aim for the 0-0; and I'd play Schneiderlin and either Carrick or Schweinsteiger against teams that will come out and try to beat us.

That'd be 4 players for 2 positions which is exactly what we should have; with 2 of them the wrong side of 30 requiring game management.

 

[Sam]

I fecking hope not. If that's Schneiderlin being in great form, that's another 25m down the drain.

 

[Varun]

I fecking hope not. If that's Schneiderlin being in great form, that's another 25m down the drain.

What's your expectation from schneiderlin?

 

[Manny]

Don't get me wrong he's a good player, but I just think he needs creativity around him to get the best out of his abilities. Not to mention that at So'ton he also probably had a bit more room and their counter attacking system meant he not only had more options available, but also that the options were easier to find. As we often see with our system the likes of Carrick and Schweinsteiger are tasked with needing to find pin-point passes in order to break down the opposition, which isn't a feature of Schneiderlin's game.

The problem occurs when Schneiderlin combines with a player who does this, it renders his role very, very limited (It's basically 50% of what Roy Keane did) . He doesn't take the responsibility of (or isn't takes with) bringing the ball out of the deep positions and he doesn't take the responsibility of (or isn't takes with) playing incisive passes to create opportunities. He tends to pass the ball square and allow others to do this, which would be fine if he had attacking players around him who could take that burden.

As I said before he is a very useful player to have. I'd play Schweinsteiger and Herrera against teams we expect to beat, but whose pressing game would cause Carrick problems; I'd play Carrick and Herrera against teams that will sit back and aim for the 0-0; and I'd play Schneiderlin and either Carrick or Schweinsteiger against teams that will come out and try to beat us.

That'd be 4 players for 2 positions which is exactly what we should have; with 2 of them the wrong side of 30 requiring game management.

Essentially this. He plays the double pivot as though he's a limited player playing a single pivot role.

Posters who go on about how he has had a good game fail to realise that he is probably only doing 50% of what we need him to do. He offers nothing in the way of progressing our play. Watch him when we have the ball, there's no effort to move into a position where he is available for a pass. No incisive passing when he has the ball, he just collects the ball from Smalling and plays the ten yard pass that Smalling could just as easily have played himself.

In this system, its not enough to just be good defensively. Schweinsteiger and Carrick must hate playing next to him.

 

[Nighteyes]

What's your expectation from schneiderlin?

A lot more than I've seen so far. For a start, I was expecting a much more all rounded midfielder than what we've seen so far given the hype. Instead, he looks painfully limited and seems to lack the awareness of what's around him when he has the ball. Two, even defensively he gets caught out of position way too many times for my liking. In fact, I just had a look at whoscored and completely unsurprisingly he's 2nd in the most fouls/game table in the league. When he has to constantly rely on fouling people to compensate for being beaten or being out of position then it's not a good sign. Right now, he's our very own Lucas (Who is rather unsurprisingly top of the fouls/game table). Both painfully limited, don't offer much besides a few crunching tackles and loads of fouls and horribly overrated by both sets of fans.

 

[finneh]

Essentially this. He plays the double pivot as though he's a limited player playing a single pivot role.

Posters who go on about how he has had a good game fail to realise that he is probably only doing 50% of what we need him to do. He offers nothing in the way of progressing our play. Watch him when we have the ball, there's no effort to move into a position where he is available for a pass. No incisive passing when he has the ball, he just collects the ball from Smalling and plays the ten yard pass that Smalling could just as easily have played himself.

In this system, its not enough to just be good defensively. Schweinsteiger and Carrick must hate playing next to him.

This is where we slightly differ, I don't think they'll dislike playing with him, just that it makes for a very un-creative and "safe" team. He offers the movement and agility that Carrick is lacking and the tackling and anticipation that Schweinsteiger is lacking. However these benefits are as you allude to, not enough to fill an entire position in the team.

I think the perfect game for him this season was the one of the few games he missed: against Arsenal. Carrick always struggles against fast paced teams that press us and their quick players just ghosted past him like he wasn't even there. Schneiderlin's mobility would have shut out a lot of these attacks and allowed Schweinsteiger to press high up the pitch which was Van Gaal's plan (not saying we'd have won but I don't think we'd have been 3-0 down after 30 mins).

The problem of course is there's a huge difference between Arsenal away and Watford or Crystal Palace. Against the latter we need creativity rather than a clean sheet at all costs; against the former we'd be happy with a clean sheet and 2-3 chances created.

 

[Varun]

A lot more than I've seen so far. For a start, I was expecting a much more all rounded midfielder than what we've seen so far given the hype. Instead, he looks painfully limited and seems to lack the awareness of what's around him when he has the ball. Two, even defensively he gets caught out of position way too many times for my liking. In fact, I just had a look at whoscored and completely unsurprisingly he's 2nd in the most fouls/game table in the league. When he has to constantly rely on fouling people to compensate for being beaten or being out of position then it's not a good sign. Right now, he's our very own Lucas (Who is rather unsurprisingly top of the fouls/game table). Both painfully limited, don't offer much besides a few crunching tackles and loads of fouls and horribly overrated by both sets of fans.

I do agree he hasn't been very good with his contribution to our attacking play. Plays the simple easy pass most of the time with no real drive to go forward or try penetrative passes. I don't thi k he's ever been genuinely top drawer at it but definitely better than what he has shown so far. I think a lot of it is due to the instructions though and the fact that it's his first season with these players. We are a tough team to play for when it comes to CMs tbf. I do think it will get better.

As far as his fouling is concerned, it will remain this way I feel. He's far too combative for his fouls not to be high. I don't mind that at all either as long as it doesn't spiral into a problem.

Comparisons to Lucas are very harsh but never mind, exaggerating to drive home a point I guess.

 

[Manny]

@finneh

Yeah granted, they would be grateful for his legs. But in terms of having someone next to them who wants the pass and can do something with it...

 

[Nighteyes]

Comparisons to Lucas are very harsh but never mind, exaggerating to drive home a point I guess.

It only seems harsh because people have an exaggerated view of how good Schneiderlin really is. I mean Schneiderlin might be slightly better but they're near enough to not make much of a difference.

I'd take a Coquelin level player. He's another one who went through a period of fouling everything in sight but has been very good this season. Also someone who's very positive and decisive in his passing, something Schneiderlin sorely lacks. He doesn't have to be a Scholes with his passing but he fecks around too much. There were people on the forum who were offended at anyone comparing Coquelin and Schneiderlin.

 

[finneh]

@finneh

Yeah granted, they would be grateful for his legs. But in terms of having someone next to them who wants the pass and can do something with it...

Yea agreed. I think they'll see him as a luxury, but unfortunately it isn't a luxury we can afford against teams that sit back and are looking for the 0-0.

 

[Varun]

It only seems harsh because people have an exaggerated view of how good Schneiderlin really is. I mean Schneiderlin might be slightly better but they're near enough to not make much of a difference.

I'd take a Coquelin level player. He's another one who went through a period of fouling everything in sight but has been very good this season. Also someone who's very positive and decisive in his passing, something Schneiderlin sorely lacks. He doesn't have to be a Scholes with his passing but he fecks around too much. There were people on the forum who were offended at anyone comparing Coquelin and Schneiderlin.

Regardless of how people might overrate Schneiderlin because he plays for us, Lucas is just a high horse bumping into players on the pitch. Does nothing but foul all game long. Coq has had a full year at Arsenal, lets see how Schneiderlin shapes up.

 

[BigDunc9]

The Fellaini excuse is just that. I have seen the likes of Osman and Gibson put in good performance partnering Fellaini regularly at times yet Schneiderlin is afforded the excuse that anyone would look bad next to him?

 

[Halftrack]

The Fellaini excuse is just that. I have seen the likes of Osman and Gibson put in good performance partnering Fellaini regularly at times yet Schneiderlin is afforded the excuse that anyone would look bad next to him?

Anyone would look bad next to a player who's as shite as Fellaini currently is, I think is what they're getting at. How well Osman and Gibson played next to him three years ago is completely irrelevant to that point.

 

[prath92]

It only seems harsh because people have an exaggerated view of how good Schneiderlin really is. I mean Schneiderlin might be slightly better but they're near enough to not make much of a difference.

I'd take a Coquelin level player. He's another one who went through a period of fouling everything in sight but has been very good this season. Also someone who's very positive and decisive in his passing, something Schneiderlin sorely lacks. He doesn't have to be a Scholes with his passing but he fecks around too much. There were people on the forum who were offended at anyone comparing Coquelin and Schneiderlin.

a true DM cuts out passes, by positioning himself accordingly and putting tackles only when needed. From what I've seen, Morgan has done exactly that. He is not an al rounded player like you said, but I doubt even we thought he was. LvG plays Bastian or Carrick next to him mainly because his passing isnt exactly top level. Though it is improving.

His attacking intent contrary to what people think here was never that good anyway. Last season he had 4 goals and an assist, 3 of which were from set pieces. which isnt great numbers for someone who had better attacking threat than here. He always played a defensive midfield role there too whenever I saw.

Coquelin too makes fouls just as much as Schneiderlin does if not more. There was even a game this season where he had 3 bookable offences for which he was given one yellow card and he was substituted by 60th minute or so. As for Lucas, he isnt half the player Schneiderlin is.

 

[Nighteyes]

a true DM cuts out passes, by positioning himself accordingly and putting tackles only when needed. From what I've seen, Morgan has done exactly that. He is not an al rounded player like you said, but I doubt even we thought he was. LvG plays Bastian or Carrick next to him mainly because his passing isnt exactly top level. Though it is improving.

His attacking intent contrary to what people think here was never that good anyway. Last season he had 4 goals and an assist, 3 of which were from set pieces. which isnt great numbers for someone who had better attacking threat than here. He always played a defensive midfield role there too whenever I saw

He doesn't always do that because his positioning doesn't seem to be the best and as a result gets caught and lets players drift by him.

I don't care about his goals or assists but his passing is not good enough for a United midfielder nor is his awareness when he has the ball.

Coquelin too makes fouls just as much as Schneiderlin does if not more.

Quite obviously not true and something that is quite evident by watching games as well as being borne out by stats. Even Last season when I thought Coquelin looked a bit dodgy he had less fouls/game than Schneiderlin did and while Coquelin seems to have upped his game to another level entirely this season, Schneiderlin has either gone backwards or these kind of performances are about par for him. Now I didn't watch much of Southampton so I sincerely hope it's the former and not a case of him being another overhyped signing.

 

[prath92]

He doesn't always do that because his positioning doesn't seem to be the best and as a result gets caught and lets players drift by him.

I don't care about his goals or assists but his passing is not good enough for a United midfielder nor is his awareness when he has the ball.



Quite obviously not true and something that is quite evident by watching games as well as being borne out by stats. Even Last season when I thought Coquelin looked a bit dodgy he had less fouls/game than Schneiderlin did and while Coquelin seems to have upped his game to another level entirely this season, Schneiderlin has either gone backwards or these kind of performances are about par for him. Now I didn't watch much of Southampton so I sincerely hope it's the former and not a case of him being another overhyped signing.

Since the arsenal game, we were rarely overrun. And very rarely players drift past him. If you see most DMs, thats what happens as they cant cover the length of the pitch so they will have to recover from deep. His passing isnt as good as Bastian or Carrick or Ander but he has a good potential by the accuracy we saw against PSV. He has a pass completion of 90% anyway which is good enough for any team.

Whoscored has rating for schneiderlin at 7.11 overall. Last year he had a rating of 7.5 overall. Its not too much to say that in a new team which is of a higher level, it will take a little time to get to his best but he is playing brilliantly anyways. schneiderlin has got only 2 yellows too. He seems to know how to not get booked which is a great trait for a destroyer to have.

 

[Nighteyes]

Since the arsenal game, we were rarely overrun. And very rarely players drift past him. If you see most DMs, thats what happens as they cant cover the length of the pitch so they will have to recover from deep. His passing isnt as good as Bastian or Carrick or Ander but he has a good potential by the accuracy we saw against PSV. He has a pass completion of 90% anyway which is good enough for any team.

Whoscored has rating for schneiderlin at 7.11 overall. Last year he had a rating of 7.5 overall. Its not too much to say that in a new team which is of a higher level, it will take a little time to get to his best but he is playing brilliantly anyways. schneiderlin has got only 2 yellows too. He seems to know how to not get booked which is a great trait for a destroyer to have.

Players do run past Schneiderlin from midfield. Ridiculous to pretend it doesn't happen and worse you see him get caught ahead of the ball which is inexcusable for a DM. There's a reason he has so many fouls.

His passing isn't very good. Full stop.

The Fellaini excuse is just that. I have seen the likes of Osman and Gibson put in good performance partnering Fellaini regularly at times yet Schneiderlin is afforded the excuse that anyone would look bad next to him?

It's a common caf tactic. When players are shit, let's blame everyone but him. Some nutter was blaming the attack for Schneiderlin being shit!

 

[prath92]

Players do run past Schneiderlin from midfield. Ridiculous to pretend it doesn't happen and worse you see him get caught ahead of the ball which is inexcusable for a DM. There's a reason he has so many fouls.

His passing isn't very good. Full stop.

As I said in my previous post his passing is obviously inferior to the likes of Bastian but he has a pass completion of 90% almost. Which is good enough for someone who apparently isnt very good at passing. i doubt you will find many DMs who are scholeseque in passing.

You will see any DM being overrun once or twice a game. But on an overall basis, he has been a rock in our midfield. Most of the time players run past Schneiderlin, he closes out the space and presses the player and the opposition end up passing it back. Has happened more times than I can think of. Which is a very smart way of defending and recovering from the player being ahead of you. and again, he has the ability to not get booked from fouls. Coquelin has more yellow cards(3) than he does (2) just so you know even though you think schneiderlin is rash in comparison to the defensively astute coquelin. If anything coquelin should have got sent off in the crystal palace or newcastle game where he got away with murder that day.

 

[Nighteyes]

As I said in my previous post his passing is obviously inferior to the likes of Bastian but he has a pass completion of 90% almost. Which is good enough for someone who apparently isnt very good at passing. i doubt you will find many DMs who are scholeseque in passing.

You do love a good strawman. I quite specifically said I don't expect him to be another Scholes with his passing or even a Carrick for that matter. Passing accuracy doesn't tell the whole story, obviously. I expect a lot more from a United midfielder. The minimum I would expect from him is the kind of performances Fletcher was putting up before he got his illness. Not just the tackling but the drive and passing ability to be able to push the team forward. Maybe that will come in time but there's no evidence of it right now.

You will see any DM being overrun once or twice a game. But on an overall basis, he has been a rock in our midfield. Most of the time players run past Schneiderlin, he closes out the space and presses the player and the opposition end up passing it back. Has happened more times than I can think of. Which is a very smart way of defending and recovering from the player being ahead of you. and again, he has the ability to not get booked from fouls. Coquelin has more yellow cards(3) than he does (2) just so you know even though you think schneiderlin is rash in comparison to the defensively astute coquelin. If anything coquelin should have got sent off in the crystal palace or newcastle game where he got away with murder that day.

If we're talking about if's and but's then Schneiderlin is quite lucky not to have picked up more yellows as well especially given most of his fouls are very blatant. I like how you've now dropped down to discussing how Coquelin has 1 more yellow and what could/should have happened when you were caught talking complete nonsense suggesting how Coquelin makes more fouls than Schneiderlin.

And by the way, I don't think and have never said Schneiderlin is rash. That's you making up things again. A lot of his fouls are due to him being in the completely wrong position to start off with.

 

[prath92]

You do love a good strawman. I quite specifically said I don't expect him to be another Scholes with his passing or even a Carrick for that matter. Passing accuracy doesn't tell the whole story, obviously. I expect a lot more from a United midfielder. The minimum I would expect from him is the kind of performances Fletcher was putting up before he got his illness. Not just the tackling but the drive and passing ability to be able to push the team forward. Maybe that will come in time but there's no evidence of it right now.



If we're talking about if's and but's then Schneiderlin is quite lucky not to have picked up more yellows as well especially given most of his fouls are very blatant. I like how you've now dropped down to discussing how Coquelin has 1 more yellow and what could/should have happened when you were caught talking complete nonsense suggesting how Coquelin makes more fouls than Schneiderlin.

And by the way, I don't think and have never said Schneiderlin is rash. That's you making up things again. A lot of his fouls are due to him being in the completely wrong position to start off with.

He is a completely different player to fletcher and he has never been that sort of player. He is a Defensive Midfielder who is a destroyer and a presser and who intercepts the ball well and a good tackler of the bll. We needed someone physical and agile like him for ages. Which is why we bought him. We already have someone like the old Fletcher in Herrera. Critiscizing morgan for not playing like another player who is not similar to him in any way is not fair tbh. Bastian kind of plays like how you describe except that he obviously cant match Fletcher's agility at 24 at an age of 30. In the modern game, a player like Morgan is a must for any top team. Saying he is not a united midfielder because of that, is like the argument that a lot here make that Blind is not a good player at CB for us because he doesnt have the physique of Rio.

Of all the games I have watched him play, he has hardly been making blatant fouls. Most of his fouls are small niggling fouls and if he gets booked for a lot of them it would be very harsh. The funny thing is that he got booked against wolfsburg (i think) for winning the ball. And he has hardly been in wrong positions. Even if he ended up in a wrong position a couple of times, he squeezes the space and makes them pass it back. which may make it seem as if he didnt do anything visibly but is very effective nevertheless.

 

[Halftrack]

You do love a good strawman. I quite specifically said I don't expect him to be another Scholes with his passing or even a Carrick for that matter. Passing accuracy doesn't tell the whole story, obviously. I expect a lot more from a United midfielder.

His average pass length is a bit shorter than that of Carrick, slightly longer than that of Schweinsteiger. He passes backwards less than Bastian (per 90), though he also makes less passes overall. He isn't as creative as the other two, but that is kind of the point. His presence is supposed to allow the other two more attacking freedom. Generally though, his passing is perfectly fine, and perfectly in line with what you generally expect from a midfield destroyer. Going by stats alone, his passing matches that of Busquets (which both highlights the problem of relying on stats alone, and how silly it is to pretend that Schneiderlin is somehow not a good enough passer for a team like United). Busquets does eclipse him in terms of attacking contribution (key passes, mainly), but I think that might have something to do with the teams themselves (though I'm very much aware of Morgan's tendency to opt for the safer alternative). Morgan has more passes per 90, less backward passes, more forward passes and longer average pass length (he also outperforms Coquelin and Matic in those same metrics, but they, as Busquets, contribute more in attack) . Again, these are only stats, but stats that I find interesting given that one of the criticism that keeps getting repeated is that his passing isn't good enough.

Now, given that we know that LvG told Herrera to take less risks, is it out of the question that he might be the reason for Schneiderlin's more conservative approach (in terms of passing)? That Morgan's being instructed to defer to his more creative partner? He's never been a Carrick in terms of passing range or ability, but he's always been solid, and certainly has the ability to contribute more to our attack than he's currently doing.

 

[Nighteyes]

He is a completely different player to fletcher and he has never been that sort of player. He is a Defensive Midfielder who is a destroyer and a presser and who intercepts the ball well and a good tackler of the bll. We needed someone physical and agile like him for ages. Which is why we bought him. We already have someone like the old Fletcher in Herrera. Critiscizing morgan for not playing like another player who is not similar to him in any way is not fair tbh. Bastian kind of plays like how you describe except that he obviously cant match Fletcher's agility at 24 at an age of 30. In the modern game, a player like Morgan is a must for any top team. Saying he is not a united midfielder because of that, is like the argument that a lot here make that Blind is not a good player at CB for us because he doesnt have the physique of Rio.

Of all the games I have watched him play, he has hardly been making blatant fouls. Most of his fouls are small niggling fouls and if he gets booked for a lot of them it would be very harsh. The funny thing is that he got booked against wolfsburg (i think) for winning the ball. And he has hardly been in wrong positions. Even if he ended up in a wrong position a couple of times, he squeezes the space and makes them pass it back. which may make it seem as if he didnt do anything visibly but is very effective nevertheless.

I wouldn't expect United to play an out and out destroyer which is what he appears to be. So, no, I would disagree with the idea that he's the kind of player we have needed. And no top team has a player as limited as him so the idea that his kind of player is a must is nonsense. And Fletcher is nothing like Herrera. He was a box to box player who was very competent defensively and could push us forward either with his passing or simply his energy and drive.

No point in discussing this any further though if you think his fouls aren't blatant. When you essentially have to come down to arguing that "He's great, you just can't see it" it's time to stop debating.

His average pass length is a bit shorter than that of Carrick, slightly longer than that of Schweinsteiger. He passes backwards less than Bastian (per 90), though he also makes less passes overall. He isn't as creative as the other two, but that is kind of the point. His presence is supposed to allow the other two more attacking freedom. Generally though, his passing is perfectly fine, and perfectly in line with what you generally expect from a midfield destroyer. Going by stats alone, his passing matches that of Busquets (which both highlights the problem of relying on stats alone, and how silly it is to pretend that Schneiderlin is somehow not a good enough passer for a team like United). Busquets does eclipse him in terms of attacking contribution (key passes, mainly), but I think that might have something to do with the teams themselves (though I'm very much aware of Morgan's tendency to opt for the safer alternative). Morgan has more passes per 90, less backward passes, more forward passes and longer average pass length (he also outperforms Coquelin and Matic in those same metrics, but they, as Busquets, contribute more in attack) . Again, these are only stats, but stats that I find interesting given that one of the criticism that keeps getting repeated is that his passing isn't good enough.

Now, given that we know that LvG told Herrera to take less risks, is it out of the question that he might be the reason for Schneiderlin's more conservative approach (in terms of passing)? That Morgan's being instructed to defer to his more creative partner? He's never been a Carrick in terms of passing range or ability, but he's always been solid, and certainly has the ability to contribute more to our attack than he's currently doing.

And I disagree with your initial lines. Carrick is not an attacking player, never has been. His natural inclination has always been sit and dictate game with the occasional forays forward. Schweinstiger is similar but a tad more forward thinking. Why would you partner either of them with a player who also likes to sit but offer precisely nothing going the other way? And I'm not a fan of pure destroyers. We don't need players like that and the club should be aiming for better through the middle.

Forget about his passing length or accuracy. Can you quite honestly say his passing his anywhere near incisive or decisive as it needs to be? Carrick has a great passing range but the best thing about his passing is often how he can pass it in between the lines. Matic has been crap this season but on the ball he's quite clearly a step ahead of Schneiderlin.

As for the bit in bold, if we're going to blame the manager for everything might as well shut down every thread in the Player Performance Forum.

 

[Halftrack]

And I disagree with your initial lines. Carrick is not an attacking player, never has been. His natural inclination has always been sit and dictate game with the occasional forays forward. Schweinstiger is similar but a tad more forward thinking. Why would you partner either of them with a player who also likes to sit but offer precisely nothing going the other way? And I'm not a fan of pure destroyers. We don't need players like that and the club should be aiming for better through the middle.

Forget about his passing length or accuracy. Can you quite honestly say his passing his anywhere near incisive or decisive as it needs to be? Carrick has a great passing range but the best thing about his passing is often how he can pass it in between the lines. Matic has been crap this season but on the ball he's quite clearly a step ahead of Schneiderlin.

As for the bit in bold, if we're going to blame the manager for everything might as well shut down every thread in the Player Performance Forum.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Carrick is an attacking player, simply that he's more creative and is (at least) perceived as being able to contribute more to our attack, same with Schweinsteiger. Schneiderlin has never been on to dictate games, being more of a grafter. That being said, he's far more careful and conservative for us than what he was for Southampton, where he appeared much more mobile and showed a lot more drive and determination going forward (he was arguably better than Matic last season. Arguably.) Safe to say, part of it is probably down to his role, having been deployed as a box-to-box player last season as opposed to the more defensive role he seems to have been given for us, and part of it is... I don't know, settling in, instructions or whatever, maybe van Gaal values his defensive contribution too much to allow him to play like he did for Southampton. I don't know. What I do know, is that his form for Southampton improved season by season, and I have no doubts that what we saw last season is his true level.

However, you have already admitted to not having seen much of him last season (as I interpreted it, correct me if I'm wrong) and you seem convinced that he's not good enough, so I see no reason trying to convince you otherwise.

As for the last bit, overreact much? I wasn't actually blaming van Gaal for everything, simply suggesting an alternative explanation. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that van Gaal, a man known to have asked players to be more conservative, could have asked one of his players to be more conservative, nor is doing so "blaming the manager for everything (or at all, even)".

 

[prath92]

I wouldn't expect United to play an out and out destroyer which is what he appears to be. So, no, I would disagree with the idea that he's the kind of player we have needed. And no top team has a player as limited as him so the idea that his kind of player is a must is nonsense. And Fletcher is nothing like Herrera. He was a box to box player who was very competent defensively and could push us forward either with his passing or simply his energy and drive.

No point in discussing this any further though if you think his fouls aren't blatant. When you essentially have to come down to arguing that "He's great, you just can't see it" it's time to stop debating.

You don't seem to know what a defensive midfielder does or rather is supposed to do.

Plus you seem to think he is a very limited player. Matic plays no more a role than him in attacks. His passing stats are worse than morgan to be honest meaning even if he tries to pass it forward he isnt very successful at it. He doesnt have morgan's pace too meaning he is very slow and cant recover like morgan can. So your idea that he is some kind of a imited midfielder is laughable and makes me realize that you may not actually have seen him play or rather not paid close attention to how he plays. I'm glad that we have him in the team and not with a rival.

Btw what you describeed about Fletcher is easily how you would describe Herrera too. Its just that now he plays more as a 10.

 

[Nighteyes]

However, you have already admitted to not having seen much of him last season (as I interpreted it, correct me if I'm wrong) and you seem convinced that he's not good enough, so I see no reason trying to convince you otherwise.

You are correct however all I've said is that on the basis of what I've seen at United so far he has a lot of things he has to improve upon. I find the idea that he's been in a great form a bit bizarre. I'm not ruling out the possibility that he may improve and reach the levels one expects from a United midfielder.

As for the last bit, overreact much? I wasn't actually blaming van Gaal for everything, simply suggesting an alternative explanation. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that van Gaal, a man known to have asked players to be more conservative, could have asked one of his players to be more conservative, nor is doing so "blaming the manager for everything (or at all, even)".

Sorry but half the forum is full of people blaming LVG for every players bad form which is a bit annoying. Van Gaal may be a moron but we can only judge based on what we've seen so and I see little point in speculating what the manager may or may not have said to the players.

 

[Nighteyes]

You don't seem to know what a defensive midfielder does or rather is supposed to do.

Plus you seem to think he is a very limited player. Matic plays no more a role than him in attacks. His passing stats are worse than morgan to be honest meaning even if he tries to pass it forward he isnt very successful at it. He doesnt have morgan's pace too meaning he is very slow and cant recover like morgan can. So your idea that he is some kind of a imited midfielder is laughable and makes me realize that you may not actually have seen him play or rather not paid close attention to how he plays. I'm glad that we have him in the team and not with a rival.

And now you resort to accusing me of not watching him play.....you're arguments get worse by the post and more focused on personal jabs than the actual point.

And Matic is better on the ball than Schneiderlin (At least he was last season until he turned to shite this season). Not only better on it but he also has the ability to carry the ball forward which is quite invaluable from midfield and something I've not seen Schneiderlin do at all. The fact you are stuck on the same point about how he's a destroyer is pretty much backing my point that he's limited player. He certainly hasn't got much else in his game this season.

Btw what you describeed about Fletcher is easily how you would describe Herrera too. Its just that now he plays more as a 10.

Even last season when Herrera played CM he was nothing like Fletcher aside from the fact they both loved a good tackle.

 

[Manny]

Since the arsenal game, we were rarely overrun. And very rarely players drift past him. If you see most DMs, thats what happens as they cant cover the length of the pitch so they will have to recover from deep. His passing isnt as good as Bastian or Carrick or Ander but he has a good potential by the accuracy we saw against PSV. He has a pass completion of 90% anyway which is good enough for any team.

Whoscored has rating for schneiderlin at 7.11 overall. Last year he had a rating of 7.5 overall. Its not too much to say that in a new team which is of a higher level, it will take a little time to get to his best but he is playing brilliantly anyways. schneiderlin has got only 2 yellows too. He seems to know how to not get booked which is a great trait for a destroyer to have.

He hit 90% pass accuracy because 21 of his passes were to Smalling, who was usually stood five yards behind him. 10 passes were to Darmian and another 9 to Blind. 40 of his 92 passes were effectively backwards passes. That pass completion stat is misleading and gives the impression that he was doing something effective.

Edit: He made less then 8 passes to either Rooney, Lingard or Memphis

Spoiler

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...0/summary#tabs-wrapper-anchor#:RcH0mg2WJ4aysQ

On top of that, from watching the game, most were 'safe', purposeless passes. In other words, he was just moving the ball on when really he needs to be making more of those short-medium passes to get the opposition chasing our players. It's details like this has our players worn out before the opposition.

No one expects him to be threading balls through to Martial but what I would like from him is to be passing the ball forwards to the front four and Schweisteiger then making sure he is in space and available to receive the ball when they need to move it on. The making himself available for a pass is what he doesn't do nearly enough of.

He's playing in a system where he is not "purely the DM" so he has to offer much more to help progress our play.

 

[Halftrack]

You are correct however all I've said is that on the basis of what I've seen at United so far he has a lot of things he has to improve upon. I find the idea that he's been in a great form a bit bizarre. I'm not ruling out the possibility that he may improve and reach the levels one expects from a United midfielder.

I can see how someone might not be to impressed, depending on what they were expecting. I know from last year that he's certainly knows how to be more adventurous, but I expected, based on us buying Schweinsteiger, and already having Carrick and Herrera, that he'd be deployed as a defensive mid. Personally, I've been satisfied with him so far. He hasn't been faultless, but as a pure DM I think he's done well (but again, I can understand that people are expecting more from him). I guess the fact that I know how good he can be might lead to me having an easier time putting some of his faults down to adapting, though. And hopefully, he'll be given a role similar to the one he had last year for Southampton.

Sorry but half the forum is full of people blaming LVG for every players bad form which is a bit annoying. Van Gaal may be a moron but we can only judge based on what we've seen so and I see little point in speculating what the manager may or may not have said to the players.

Oh, I know. The reason for my speculation is that Schneiderlin certainly has the ability to do the things people expect him to do. That lead me to wonder whether part of the reason for his carefulness was down to his instructions. LvG is a known pragmatic, and values a strong defense, so it's certainly possible.

 

[Varun]

LVG has again picked a very strange game to drop him, much like the Arsenal one. With the pace at which Leicester attack, he was a must for this game imo. Carrick-BFS in this game is a bad call imo so i'm hoping van Gaal proves me wrong here.

 

[Sam]

The exact kind of matches he should have been bought for, we drop him.

Mental beyond belief.

 

[Manny]

Morgan was dropped for the Arsenal game because he was shite the game before against Wolfsburg. He's been dropped again because he was shite against PSV.

Both decisions were understandable and I don't expect us to suffer today like we did against Arsenal.

 

[Minimalist]

Morgan was dropped for the Arsenal game because he was shite the game before against Wolfsburg. He's been dropped again because he was shite against PSV.

Both decisions were understandable and I don't expect us to suffer today like we did against Arsenal.

So why is Rooney playing every game?

 

[Sam]

Morgan was dropped for the Arsenal game because he was shite the game before against Wolfsburg. He's been dropped again because he was shite against PSV.

Both decisions were understandable and I don't expect us to suffer today like we did against Arsenal.

The whole team should be dropped then.

Or is it one rule for one, and another rule for others?

 

[Varun]

Morgan was dropped for the Arsenal game because he was shite the game before against Wolfsburg. He's been dropped again because he was shite against PSV.

Both decisions were understandable and I don't expect us to suffer today like we did against Arsenal.

We don't apply those rules to everyone in the squad, neither do most teams with good reason . It's simply a case of looking at the bigger picture which is the obvious way to go. We haven't done so here.

 

[Halftrack]

Both decisions were understandable.

If you're operating in a vacuum.

 

[Manny]

So why is Rooney playing every game?

Rooney seems to be a special case which I cant get my head around.

The whole team should be dropped then.

Or is it one rule for one, and another rule for others?

We don't apply those rules to everyone in the squad, neither do most teams with good reason . It's simply a case of looking at the bigger picture which is the obvious way to go. We haven't done so here.

As far as Schneiderlin goes, he's not doing enough when we have possession despite what popular opinion is in here, so I understand why he'd like Carrick in there instead.

Our problems are going forward, not in defense.

 

[Varun]

Rooney seems to be a special case which I cant get my head around.




As far as Schneiderlin goes, he's not doing enough when we have possession despite what popular opinion is in here, so I understand why he'd like Carrick in there instead.

Our problems are going forward, not in defense.

Yeah, he hasn't been as good with the ball as we'd like him to be. Doesn't mean we ignore the basics though. We need mobility and cover for our defense. Especially given how rapid Leicester are with their attacks, 2 slow CMs isn't very clever. We are unlikely to outscore Leicester if this game turns into a high scoring one, hard as it may be to digest.

 

[prath92]

He hit 90% pass accuracy because 21 of his passes were to Smalling, who was usually stood five yards behind him. 10 passes were to Darmian and another 9 to Blind. 40 of his 92 passes were effectively backwards passes. That pass completion stat is misleading and gives the impression that he was doing something effective.

Edit: He made less then 8 passes to either Rooney, Lingard or Memphis

Spoiler

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...0/summary#tabs-wrapper-anchor#:RcH0mg2WJ4aysQ

On top of that, from watching the game, most were 'safe', purposeless passes. In other words, he was just moving the ball on when really he needs to be making more of those short-medium passes to get the opposition chasing our players. It's details like this has our players worn out before the opposition.

No one expects him to be threading balls through to Martial but what I would like from him is to be passing the ball forwards to the front four and Schweisteiger then making sure he is in space and available to receive the ball when they need to move it on. The making himself available for a pass is what he doesn't do nearly enough of.

He's playing in a system where he is not "purely the DM" so he has to offer much more to help progress our play.

The 90% stats was for the PL overall. Even then he is a DM. He is available for passes from the back 4 and schweini all the time. he also passes to the wingers in the flanks. a diagonal. I dont expect a DM to do more than this

 

[Devil may care]

I hope he just came off as a precaution, we are in trouble if he's out over the Christmas period.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Didn't seem to be limping, and didn't seem to get immediate treatment. Hopefully it was just a tight hamstring rather than a pull/tear!