Monchi - "I cannot believe Manchester United do not have a Sporting Director."

A substantial problem for years and the man, United appoint to address the void was Murtough. Not good enough, I think it's entirely possible to have leeching owners like the Glazers and be successful to some degree but you need the right people in the right places.

The structure of the club doesn't actually mean anything when the positions of influences are muted. United change the recruitment staff but it doesn't yield any results because the manager is pioneering all directives of player acquisition. Even if the team was successful it's not a foundation to build on in the long run. Reiterated this countless times throughout summer increasing the post count.

All of the bad decisions rest in the hands of the DOF. It's more logical for the fans and media to pick up on this before blaming the manager. Neville touched on it in recent quotes hopefully it gathers steam.
 
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Out of curiosity, how much would it actually cost to hire a "best in class" sporting director? Surely in comparison to the cost of a single transfer, it's absolute peanuts and a very good sporting director would pay for themselves many times over.

Everything is so short sighted with this club it's sickening.
 
The club is forever saying how many years they have watched player xyz before making bids...it's very hard to believe.

The blame will forever be put on the managers shoulders when it goes wrong, but there comes a point after 10 years when you have to start looking beyond the manager.
 
I don't agree with @bstb3's assertion that getting someone competent will expose the Glazers' own lack of ambition and/or competence. Mainly because the incompetence is already exposed by the fact that we are down a billion in red in the market and our transfer hit rate in the last ten years is under 5%. All this without a single challenge for major accolades.

In fact it should be the Glazers demanding changes and pushing them through because if the club gets better at recruitment they save money whilst increasing club value via success on the pitch which attracts more endorsement deals and the like. They shouldn't have to be pushed by fans to do this properly. The way I see it they are heavily reliant on incompetent CEOs and are poorly advised by people with vested interests like Woodward and then Arnold and Murtough.

The simple comparison to stress the case is how we ignored the Alvarez signing at under 20m and later bought Hoijlund at 70m just 18 months or later. Despite being benched by a phenom Alvarez is currently the better player who was identified by a competent and accomplished DOF who we ignored. Who is going to pay for that blunder? The club they own and expect dividends from.

The level of investments made by the Glazers in the squad is more than enough to win if the money is spent well. That we are heavily reliant on the manager for transfer direction after what happened under Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is just madness. The manager shouldn't have a veto or disproportionately big say on investments whose implications will outlive his tenure. The fact that we are still paying for the likes of Sancho, Maguire et al should be instructive.
 
We dont have one because as LVG once said, we’re run like a commercial club. The Glazers expect every manager to fill that Ferguson shaped void and hope for the best. They evidently don’t want to know anything about running a club outside of making money, and don’t want to get better at it given how long Woodward was at the helm.

They‘re very neglectful and stubborn in their approach. They seemingly didn’t have contacts in football when they bought us. Todd Boehly did not either but he went out and poached Winstanley & Stewart from Brighton almost a year ago now. The Glazers have done nothing of the sort. They just entrusted their friends who helped with the takeover to run things like Woodward, who brought in their own friends like Judge and Arnold.

It’s pretty fecking blatant what their intentions are when you look at it like that. Newcastle hired Ashworth. City hired the Barcelona backroom. Villa themselves hired Monchi this summer. We’ve hired fecking nobody since Ferguson left and we’re the team that on paper needs one more than any other team due to our size and stature. We’re run like a dinky little corner shop whilst much smaller teams are run like a major supermarket chain.
 
The fact that their options were Gary Neville or Rio Ferdinand is hilarious. Do they know anyone else in football?

RuudTom83 said:
The club is forever saying how many years they have watched player xyz before making bids...it's very hard to believe.

The blame will forever be put on the managers shoulders when it goes wrong, but there comes a point after 10 years when you have to start looking beyond the manager.
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Apparently they spent years scouting Sancho and then when they signed him, were frustrated that he preferred to play on the left instead of the right :lol:

Our scouts are either stealing a living or they're just ignored. Not sure which but the recruitment is awful.
 
Chairman Steve said:
We dont have one because as LVG once said, we’re run like a commercial club. The Glazers expect every manager to fill that Ferguson shaped void and hope for the best. They evidently don’t want to know anything about running a club outside of making money, and don’t want to get better at it given how long Woodward was at the helm.

They‘re very neglectful and stubborn in their approach. They seemingly didn’t have contacts in football when they bought us. Todd Boehly did not either but he went out and poached Winstanley & Stewart from Brighton almost a year ago now. The Glazers have done nothing of the sort. They just entrusted their friends who helped with the takeover to run things like Woodward, who brought in their own friends like Judge and Arnold.

It’s pretty fecking blatant what their intentions are when you look at it like that. Newcastle hired Ashworth. City hired the Barcelona backroom. Villa themselves hired Monchi this summer. We’ve hired fecking nobody since Ferguson left and we’re the team that on paper needs one more than any other team due to our size and stature. We’re run like a dinky little corner shop whilst much smaller teams are run like a major supermarket chain.
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David Gill leaving the same time as SAF was a massive problem is this respect. It was at that point they should have left Woodward to his commercial deals and gone out and brought in someone with the experience and contacts to get deals done.
 
Oranges038 said:
David Gill leaving the same time as SAF was a massive problem is this respect. It was at that point they should have left Woodward to his commercial deals and gone out and brought in someone with the experience and contacts to get deals done.
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The more time goes by, the more that decision to leave Woodward in charge of the club looks just absolutely insane. The man was an accountant, he had no business trying to run a football club.
 
Discussion about Glazers role and motives keeps going back and forth. However ( and parking stupidity - offset only by a certain myopic versions of a gambler's cunning when it comes to trying to get the highest price for the club, and some impulse to hire 'commercial partnerships' people - as an explanation) I still don't quite understand why they wouldn't just hire a consultant to find them the best available person or small team that can identify cheap up and coming technical players as well as a coach with a track record in coaching them.

It would mean the club spending less, and they could still market the hell out of it in the same way that they've marketed inconsistency and puffed-up mediocrity for the last 10 years, whilst guaranteeing dividends And keeping a larger section of fans off their backs (however little that means) by having a clearer transfer strategy, more respect from outside and possibly reinvesting some of the unspent excess profits that would otherwise go on failed marquee signings on the training ground or sprucing up parts of OT instead.

Unless there's some commercial contract - in which case, what might be the specifics of this, beyond ''regular top 4'? We've signed various 'non-glam' players, whether back in LVG, or Ole's buy British. Even Mourinho's 'younger' buys like Bailly or Lindelof were 'up and coming' but arguably just not particularly well scouted in terms of technical and to an extent mental profiles. It doesn't seem like 'sharp capitalism', but, rather, mentally-cracked -the decision-making just seems bizarrely ill-judged.

Maybe the explanation is partly in jostling for power within the club, but if the Glazers are so unsentimental and so concerned primarily with anything but the bottom-line, why wouldn't they just appoint a crack footballing director with a record at getting clubs to punch above their weight, rather than gambling on Murtaugh's structure, and let the DOF/SD run the non-commercial side? it's not like they'd be forced to spend any more than they've already allowed to go out of the club (none of it is their money, of course, the leeches) or it would mean significant difference. ..
 
Oranges038 said:
David Gill leaving the same time as SAF was a massive problem is this respect. It was at that point they should have left Woodward to his commercial deals and gone out and brought in someone with the experience and contacts to get deals done.
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I've often been critical of Gill. I think he just benefited from being there while Fergie was too.

The way they apparently considered Rio Ferdinand and Gary Neville for the job shows that they know no-one in football apart from ex United players. They're not even from the same planet as their equivalents at other clubs.
 
Chairman Steve said:
We dont have one because as LVG once said, we’re run like a commercial club.
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This cannot be restated enough. The Glazers run us using accountants and marketeers, not football specialists. And then they starve us of money. That's why we will always be shite so long as they are in charge.
 
glazed said:
This cannot be restated enough. The Glazers run us using accountants and marketeers, not football specialists. And then they starve us of money. That's why we will always be shite so long as they are in charge.
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I agree with the first part but the funny thing is they give the team money but let the accountants spend it so its all wasted.
 
RedUnited86 said:
Out of curiosity, how much would it actually cost to hire a "best in class" sporting director? Surely in comparison to the cost of a single transfer, it's absolute peanuts and a very good sporting director would pay for themselves many times over.

Everything is so short sighted with this club it's sickening.
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We had one. Rangnick. We fecked that up.
 
Crimson King said:
The more time goes by, the more that decision to leave Woodward in charge of the club looks just absolutely insane. The man was an accountant, he had no business trying to run a football club.
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It was mental. The guy hadn't a clue.

Tyrion said:
I've often been critical of Gill. I think he just benefited from being there while Fergie was too.

The way they apparently considered Rio Ferdinand and Gary Neville for the job shows that they know no-one in football apart from ex United players. They're not even from the same planet as their equivalents at other clubs.
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That may be. They had a good working relationship given how long Gill was at the club. 16 years he was there.

He worked his way up to his position. He had a network of contacts at top clubs all over Europe with the whole G14 thing. He was respected and knew how to work with people to get things done.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
We had one. Rangnick. We fecked that up.
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He fecked it up.

If he'd done his initial role with some competence then there might have been cause to think "this fella knows a thing or two, about how to operate at this level, we should make every effort to tap into his insight."

Instead it was the opposite, he didn't put himself in any position to be hired or kept on through his own poor decisions. There's not a chance I'd be hiring him in any position after that, even if he was more suited to it.

Don't think he's best in class for a role anyway, I don't find his background particularly compelling. Better options would be out there.
 
glazed said:
This cannot be restated enough. The Glazers run us using accountants and marketeers, not football specialists. And then they starve us of money. That's why we will always be shite so long as they are in charge.
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we’ve not been starved of money to be fair, it’s been spent badly which is the problem.
 
The arrogance of the club is simply staggering. I think we always thought we were above having a sporting director, whilst other clubs understood what a crucial piece of the jigsaw they can be and overtook us; whilst we remained nostalgic about the Fergie years and continued the tradition of jobs for the boys.
 
There's literally no chance of this happening. Ever. The Glazers don't have the faintest idea how to run a football club and, other than jobs for their mates and taking out money like it's a cash machine, they don't care either.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Time for this myth to die. He was never that thrilled about this 'consultant' position that we used as a carrot on a stick to lure him with, and when Austria came calling he would've walked anyway.
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pretty sure he recommended himself to manage another year? After calling the club out there was no chance he was being kept on
 
Von Mistelroum said:
There's literally no chance of this happening. Ever. The Glazers don't have the faintest idea how to run a football club and, other than jobs for their mates and taking out money like it's a cash machine, they don't care either.
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The Glazers will not be here forever so it can happen
 
VorZakone said:
I get that but what would the narrative have been if Utd appointed Monchi and he didn't deliver results?
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That he was a spoofer and he's not up todate with all the latest trends in data analysis when looking at players.
 
clarkydaz said:
pretty sure he recommended himself to manage another year? After calling the club out there was no chance he was being kept on
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He wanted to. That and the position people here want him to do, is exactly Murtough's role, so it would've made him redundant. And he probably sees himself as too good to work under him.
 
VorZakone said:
I get that but what would the narrative have been if Utd appointed Monchi and he didn't deliver results?
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Hire someone else. Hiring someone is not a gaurantee of success. Arsenal hired and fired 2 DOFs before they landed on Edu.
 
Baxquux said:
Discussion about Glazers role and motives keeps going back and forth. However ( and parking stupidity - offset only by a certain myopic versions of a gambler's cunning when it comes to trying to get the highest price for the club, and some impulse to hire 'commercial partnerships' people - as an explanation) I still don't quite understand why they wouldn't just hire a consultant to find them the best available person or small team that can identify cheap up and coming technical players as well as a coach with a track record in coaching them.

It would mean the club spending less, and they could still market the hell out of it in the same way that they've marketed inconsistency and puffed-up mediocrity for the last 10 years, whilst guaranteeing dividends And keeping a larger section of fans off their backs (however little that means) by having a clearer transfer strategy, more respect from outside and possibly reinvesting some of the unspent excess profits that would otherwise go on failed marquee signings on the training ground or sprucing up parts of OT instead.

Unless there's some commercial contract - in which case, what might be the specifics of this, beyond ''regular top 4'? We've signed various 'non-glam' players, whether back in LVG, or Ole's buy British. Even Mourinho's 'younger' buys like Bailly or Lindelof were 'up and coming' but arguably just not particularly well scouted in terms of technical and to an extent mental profiles. It doesn't seem like 'sharp capitalism', but, rather, mentally-cracked -the decision-making just seems bizarrely ill-judged.

Maybe the explanation is partly in jostling for power within the club, but if the Glazers are so unsentimental and so concerned primarily with anything but the bottom-line, why wouldn't they just appoint a crack footballing director with a record at getting clubs to punch above their weight, rather than gambling on Murtaugh's structure, and let the DOF/SD run the non-commercial side? it's not like they'd be forced to spend any more than they've already allowed to go out of the club (none of it is their money, of course, the leeches) or it would mean significant difference. ..
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I think the biggest issue we have is that which has been alluded to above that the Glazers are neglectful and thus never really saw the need to cultivate contacts in the game. I'd argue they don't need to, they have a CEO who should do this. Their failure with Woodward was that they didn't appraise him objectively otherwise if they did they would have reevaluated his JD.

Like you say its actually to their benefit if they did this properly. Arsenal got their act together under Edu, we could do the same here. Its not exactly rocket science either, just get a consultant to draw up a shortlist of potential candidates - interview them, tell them what you expect in terms of recruitment, hire them and then assess after two seasons.

I suspect that the club, the invisible layer of it anywhere below the likes of Arnold, Murtough and ETH are staunch tradionalists who believe in the manager's omnipotence and centrality to decision making. We literally had the architect of one of Europe's top talent flippers in the building and refused to sign even a single of his mostly cheap recommendations because we were ostensibly waiting for the summer and reserving the budget for the new manager. Do they think Ten Hag would have frowned on a Garvidol or Alvarez coming from. Holland?
 
Crimson King said:
The more time goes by, the more that decision to leave Woodward in charge of the club looks just absolutely insane. The man was an accountant, he had no business trying to run a football club.
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I see this a lot re his background. He was an accountant, yes, but then he moved into banking and worked in M&A for JPM. If you look at other club CEOs, he was probably overqualified. His credentials weren’t the issue it was that he was a simple ‘yes’ man for the Glazers, had a terrible sell about Disneyland and how rich were and had that weird period where he tried to get pally with players.
 
It's quite baffling really that the Glazers have never properly addressed this. Whatever people think of them, the club has spent over £1BN net under their watch.

Surely, however apathetic you are about the sport and/or the team, from a cold, hard business perspective you want to make sure that that money (which could be in your pocket or spent on facilities which increase the overall value of the club) is spent wisely?
 
Come on now, guys. Which other team gets in a 35-year old Jonny Evans who was released by a relegated team to provide cover for us in central defence? You are all bonkers to question our world class recruitment team.
 
Lentwood said:
It's quite baffling really that the Glazers have never properly addressed this. Whatever people think of them, the club has spent over £1BN net under their watch.

Surely, however apathetic you are about the sport and/or the team, from a cold, hard business perspective you want to make sure that that money (which could be in your pocket or spent on facilities which increase the overall value of the club) is spent wisely?
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The money spent did the job of pacifying clueless fans whilst they extracted dividends from under our noses.

From that perspective the money was spent wisely.
 
As usual, United are behind the curve on almost everything. Dinosaur club
 
Football director and technical director's role is similar to the role of the sporting director.
 
Cassidy said:
The money spent did the job of pacifying clueless fans whilst they extracted dividends from under our noses.

From that perspective the money was spent wisely.
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I think many of our fans would do well to actually look at some of the numbers. The Glazers have taken a negligible amount in dividends, relative to the money blown on transfers and wages.

This is why many can't understand their reluctance to sell the club. They're billionaires and they've made next to nothing from the club in two decades. The stadium is crumbling, the debt is getting bigger, we're no closer to winning a major trophy and we had to wait until the last minute to loan a midfielder from Fiorentina because we're a hairs width from breaching FFP.

The only way they can make this a worthwhile investment is selling
 
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