Moises Caicedo | Signs for Brighton

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The Red Thinker said:
So the reason why Diallo cost 40 million is not necessarily because he was some super talent a la Messi, but it was due to the fact that he would not have passed the 15 point system. If you pay a transfer that kind of money, you can justify to the British Government that Diallo is due an exemption from the 15 point rule because his purchase is “is a significant investment” by the club. Diallo hasn’t played for Cote de Ivoire yet, but big money always helps. It is complete going to Atalanta but the fact United paid so much, gives good grounds for the Govt to give the work permit.

https://www.football365.com/news/giovanni-galli-reveals-huge-amad-diallo-man-utd-signing

Here is Former Lucchese Director and Italy Goalkeeper Gio Galli saying that. He’s not big fish in the Italian football world but he knows how business is done.
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How did us paying more money help with his work permit though? He was pending an Italian passport which went through no? I don't get how us paying big money gets him his Italian Passport.

In any case I think the outlay suggests he must be a big talent no? Whether 40m goes to a fee or to helping permits, Manchester United saw it was value so I'm assuming we rate him very highly.
 
VP89 said:
How did us paying more money help with his work permit though? He was pending an Italian passport which went through no? I don't get how us paying big money gets him his Italian Passport.

In any case I think the outlay suggests he must be a big talent no? Whether 40m goes to a fee or to helping permits, Manchester United saw it was value so I'm assuming we rate him very highly.
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Having a passport doesn’t mean you’ll get a work permit. That was where I was coming from. It’s sort of like convincing the British Govt to give an “exceptional talent” exemption.
The latter part I agree with. Regardless, the kid must have huge potential.
 
The Red Thinker said:
Having a passport doesn’t mean you’ll get a work permit. That was where I was coming from. It’s sort of like convincing the British Govt to give an “exceptional talent” exemption.
The latter part I agree with. Regardless, the kid must have huge potential.
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I agree but surely its far more straight forward for those in the European Union (process was started before the deal), or even in Europe to get a work permit?

Anyway I agree. I just hope he settles in fast!
 
Not sure how much involvment this lad will have if/when we finalise the move but it seems Ole knows where he wants to go regards his midfielders. I think hes realised since putting in McT and Fred provides a better balance and because of this, he wants what looks like a similar player in Caicedo. Dynamic, good in the tackle, has the ability to dovetail with midfield partner.

Having said all of that, if hes so highly rated, why is he so cheap?
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Not sure how much involvment this lad will have if/when we finalise the move but it seems Ole knows where he wants to go regards his midfielders. I think hes realised since putting in McT and Fred provides a better balance and because of this, he wants what looks like a similar player in Caicedo. Dynamic, good in the tackle, has the ability to dovetail with midfield partner.

Having said all of that, if hes so highly rated, why is he so cheap?
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Release clause, I think.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Having said all of that, if hes so highly rated, why is he so cheap?
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He plays in the Ecuadorian league. Their record outgoing transfer is £3.8m for a winger to the Mexican league, and then drops down to £1.8m. There’s about 5 total transfers in the leagues history that have been more than £1m.
 
The Red Thinker said:
I see it this way. Our scouts think this kid is indeed the next big thing and were convinced that anything and everything needed to be done to get him. Remember we weren't the only ones after him, Juve were a shoe-in but we beat them to it. Diallo was due to head to Parma and do a Kulesevski, who also came from Atalanta and went to Parma on loan as an audition for Juve. This kid was making noise with his skills, but our youth scouting has been out of this world ever since Nicky Butt took over. We scouted and talked to Atalanta for a YEAR.

So Ole was convinced and so was the board. 20 odd million pounds and the rest add ons rising upto the 40 million. United believe in this kid, hence why we went the extra mile for the fees as well. For Atalanta sure, but for the work permit as well.
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I don't understand Italian football. We couldn't sign a Diallo type talent from a team comparable to Atalanta for 20M. They would charge us at least 50M or whatever and if Diallo is a top 3 Serie A prospects for his age group, isn't he worth that and shouldn't Roma and the Milans be competing with Juve and that forces one to pay 50M?
 
SATA said:
Can't find him in the latest Football Manager
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He’s on there and is highly rated, depends what leagues you have loaded I guess

Gravenberch potential rated at 87, Bellingham 85 and Caicedo 81 which is pretty good considering he’s out of the spotlight in a smaller league
 
Castia said:
He’s on there and is highly rated, depends what leagues you have loaded I guess

Gravenberch potential rated at 87, Bellingham 85 and Caicedo 81 which is pretty good considering he’s out of the spotlight in a smaller league
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Could you explain those ratings please
 
VP89 said:
I agree but surely its far more straight forward for those in the European Union (process was started before the deal), or even in Europe to get a work permit?

Anyway I agree. I just hope he settles in fast!
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After Brexit there isn't any difference between EU and LatAm countries so his Italian passport doesn't help at all.
 
NoPace said:
I don't understand Italian football. We couldn't sign a Diallo type talent from a team comparable to Atalanta for 20M. They would charge us at least 50M or whatever and if Diallo is a top 3 Serie A prospects for his age group, isn't he worth that and shouldn't Roma and the Milans be competing with Juve and that forces one to pay 50M?
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What are you asking? Which talent we couldn't sign? Also, we don't know if Roma and the Milan teams were also interested.
 
NoPace said:
I don't understand Italian football. We couldn't sign a Diallo type talent from a team comparable to Atalanta for 20M. They would charge us at least 50M or whatever and if Diallo is a top 3 Serie A prospects for his age group, isn't he worth that and shouldn't Roma and the Milans be competing with Juve and that forces one to pay 50M?
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How much did Sancho cost prior to joining Dortmund?
 
DWelbz19 said:
He plays in the Ecuadorian league. Their record outgoing transfer is £3.8m for a winger to the Mexican league, and then drops down to £1.8m. There’s about 5 total transfers in the leagues history that have been more than £1m.
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Ahh I see. Cheers! Any other clubs in for him do you know?
 
DWelbz19 said:
He plays in the Ecuadorian league. Their record outgoing transfer is £3.8m for a winger to the Mexican league, and then drops down to £1.8m. There’s about 5 total transfers in the leagues history that have been more than £1m.
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I think, for his club this transfer means their entire budget for a year, if not more. For Ecuador this is huge money
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Ahh I see. Cheers! Any other clubs in for him do you know?
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Chelsea keep getting quoted but nothing from any reliable sources just click bait artists repeating the rumours from yesterday. Ecuadorean press reporting that contract signing and medical holding up the announcement. When you think this has only gathered pace this week, fans are ridiculously impatient. This is also a negotiation between a South American club and an English club within all that’s happening right now yet we want it concluded...now!
 
limerickcitykid said:
This is classic “self proclaimed expert is caught spouting shite yet again” and claims other people are angry.

I’m very happy, back home with my family and enjoying Christmas.

I wish all the self proclaimed “experts” the best as well and a Merry Christmas to you all!
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Hi, I’m a happy expert (self-proclaimed). I’d like to spout some happy shit:

I got a bit fascinated when you pulled some psychoanalytic evaluation out of some text phrases in this forum, while at the same time dismissing some psychological speculations about yourself out of hand - how can a person being so happy ‘sound’ so angry and condescending in writing? And what kind of person would you typically consider yourself as, based on text only?

I know, it’s much time spent on painstakingly small details, but I hope you can be sympathetic to that, as you yourself seem positive to spend time going into details about not toodramatic nuances.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Not sure how much involvment this lad will have if/when we finalise the move but it seems Ole knows where he wants to go regards his midfielders. I think hes realised since putting in McT and Fred provides a better balance and because of this, he wants what looks like a similar player in Caicedo. Dynamic, good in the tackle, has the ability to dovetail with midfield partner.

Having said all of that, if hes so highly rated, why is he so cheap?
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He is coming from a small club in Ecuador, the whole club is probably worth £5m and I don't mean this as an insult but it's the reality for many clubs operating in poor countries.
 
AneRu said:
He is coming from a small club in Ecuador, the whole club is probably worth £5m and I don't mean this as an insult but it's the reality for many clubs operating in poor countries.
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Yeah, that makes sense. Could be an astute signing by Ole and his staff.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Could you explain those ratings please
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Are you being funny or serious?

Football Manager rates players out of 100 based on many qualities that they do thorough research on.
81 will be the best Caicedo can grow to, with all the best development,b training, game time etc.

That isn't bad considering he's relatively unknown from the Ecuadorian league. Bellingham is very highly rated (retired his shirt number in Birmingham :lol:) and he's only rated higher on potential by 4. I'd imagine Caicedo's potential would grow just by him playing in a more recognisable league.
 
Bubz27 said:
Are you being funny or serious?

Football Manager rates players out of 100 based on many qualities that they do thorough research on.
81 will be the best Caicedo can grow to, with all the best development,b training, game time etc.

That isn't bad considering he's relatively unknown from the Ecuadorian league. Bellingham is very highly rated (retired his shirt number in Birmingham :lol:) and he's only rated higher on potential by 4. I'd imagine Caicedo's potential would grow just by him playing in a more recognisable league.
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That's not how FM rates players. They do Potential Ability(PA) out of 200, while some young players will have 'negative' ratings(-10, -95, -9, -95 etc.) which means their PA will be randomised between a set range. A quick google tells me that Moises Caicedo has a PA of -85 which means he will have a PA between 140-170 which will be determined randomly at the start of any new save. He could be anything from a decent squad player to world class depending on the save. I think you may have gotten confused with Fifa which rates players out of 100.
 
Impulse said:
That's not how FM rates players. They do Potential Ability(PA) out of 200, while some young players will have 'negative' ratings(-10, -95, -9, -95 etc.) which means their PA will be randomised between a set range. A quick google tells me that Moises Caicedo has a PA of -85 which means he will have a PA between 140-170 which will be determined randomly at the start of any new save. He could be anything from a decent squad player to world class depending on the save. I think you may have gotten confused with Fifa which rates players out of 100.
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Well there you go. Merry Christmas.
 
Alemar said:
Who was Roy Keane, a DM or a box to box? This guy plays in a similar way
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Roy Keane IMO was a box to box midfielder with strong defensive attributes. Arturo Vidal was also similar and both players were monsters especially when it came to ground coverage and sensing danger. I feel this kid (Caciedo) is similar in profile but will need time to develop and get settled into new surroundings if we do end end up signing him.

@NYAS has described the players attributes and position nicely a few pages back which is a assessment that is reciprocated by Simon Edwards who is a South American football correspondent based in Colombia.
 
Bubz27 said:
Well there you go. Merry Christmas.
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Newest FM games include scouts reports which generate a number out of 100. However, that number depends on how good the scout is at his job and how suitable the player is for your team.

So Luke Shaw might be a 100/100 for a championship side. 85/100 for a lower half premier league side and 70/100 for Utd.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Could you explain those ratings please
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Its a hidden rating within the game that basically gives you an idea of their potential, the higher the better and hes one of the better young midfielders on the game
 
Adnan said:
It was a very informative video and thanks to Brexit we could see a influx of young South Americans arrive in England and the Championship clubs could really benefit financially from it.
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Why is this thanks to Brexit? If being in the EU was a barrier, how have Portugal and the Netherlands been hiring the creme de la creme of South America for years?
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Why is this thanks to Brexit? If being in the EU was a barrier, how have Portugal and the Netherlands been hiring the creme de la creme of South America for years?
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I'm guessing but maybe he/she meant it the other way around. That signing EU based players will be harder post Brexit so footballers from other places (incl S America) may be easier by comparison?

Pre Brexit, those country's clubs may have gone outside the EU to find cheaper players (possibly in the hope they find a bargain and sell on to Italy, Spain, UK).
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I'm guessing but maybe he/she meant it the other way around. That signing EU based players will be harder post Brexit so footballers from other places (incl S America) may be easier by comparison?

Pre Brexit, those country's clubs may have gone outside the EU to find cheaper players (possibly in the hope they find a bargain and sell on to Italy, Spain, UK).
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Cheers mate, you saved me the time.
 
Adnan said:
Roy Keane IMO was a box to box midfielder with strong defensive attributes. Arturo Vidal was also similar and both players were monsters especially when it came to ground coverage and sensing danger. I feel this kid (Caciedo) is similar in profile but will need time to develop and get settled into new surroundings if we do end end up signing him.

@NYAS has described the players attributes and position nicely a few pages back which is a assessment that is reciprocated by Simon Edwards who is a South American football correspondent based in Colombia.
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Keane definitely started as B2B (Forest and a few years with United) then ended sitting deeper and instead of making 40 yards runs to get on the end of something, made 10-15 yard runs to break up opponents play. Excellent at both.

I've only seen the various compilation videos of Caicado and he looks like he has abilities to play both (no idea at what level as the two leagues seem vastly different in quality). Reads play, calm/doesn't seem to dive in, aggressive, (in a good way, strong), tackles so would fit a centre/Def Mid but drives forward, looks comfortable with ball at feet, can make quick/accurate passes, so could be B2B too.

With Bruno, Pogba (if he stays), DvdB and McT if he plays like he did v Leeds... I'd say we have more need for a strong Def Mid
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Keane definitely started as B2B (Forest and a few years with United) then ended sitting deeper and instead of making 40 yards runs to get on the end of something, made 10-15 yard runs to break up opponents play. Excellent at both.

I've only seen the various compilation videos of Caicado and he looks like he has abilities to play both (no idea at what level as the two leagues seem vastly different in quality). Reads play, calm/doesn't seem to dive in, aggressive, (in a good way, strong), tackles so would fit a centre/Def Mid but drives forward, looks comfortable with ball at feet, can make quick/accurate passes, so could be B2B too.

With Bruno, Pogba (if he stays), DvdB and McT if he plays like he did v Leeds... I'd say we have more need for a strong Def Mid
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I agree mate and @NYAS has also said the same about us maybe signing a specialist DM which IMO will potentially make the base of our midfield very strong in the mid to longterm.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
Amazing to hear, especially about the lone DM role but he's obviously a bit biased and I doubt he could stand in as CB in the PL at 178cm..
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Why not? Keane did from time to time. Mascherano played against English clubs loads of times at CB and did well also. Blind of course is only 2cm taller. I think if you're good enough you can do it.
 
15+ points required for work permit:



This means Caicedo should have no problem being granted a work permit and sees United become one of the first clubs to take advantage of the new rules which will see clubs looking to South America a lot more.

Good forward planning by Woodward & team.
 
Let's see how the likes of Diallo, Pellistri and Caicedo (Mejbri too) turn out but it seems we have definitely improved in our recruitment of young players in terms of our swiftness and creatvity in that particular. Hopefully we also apply that to the more established players we chase but if these chaps turn out to be quality players then the signs do look good.
 
Ali Dia said:
I can see the Roy Keane comparisons with his rounded skillset. I wonder what his mentality is like. If he’s anything like Valencia we may have a very special player on our hands.
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He is 18 and has to move to a whole new culture, language and climate. He will need a year to adjust. But I trust Ole to slowly bed him in like a Greenwood.
 
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