TBF they'll get the same price in the summer and if they hold, they have a decent chance at 5th this season.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
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Mental though considering a successful swoop here puts you second only to Chelsea in expenditure and net spend.
Not sure how it's just completely missed whenever the pundits are micro-analysing money/transfers. They only ever seem interested in United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool.
They could but he could also break his leg or something else could happen. It's a risk to sell him now as much as it is to keep him really. It is a bit of a coin flip as to which you want to choose.
Most of these pundits have spent a lot of time with the 'Har, Har, Arsenal are skint' opinion. They'll have to take some time before they change tune, if they don't want to risk looking silly.
If they pull this off, then Arsenal will be quite the formidable team. Their resurgence this season has been pretty remarkable.
I know we don't have the funds due to the club sale etc, but we really should be all over this if any way possible. Casemiro is great but he's turning 31 in just under a month and I can't see him having the same influence in 2-3 years time., plus Caicedo would be an upgrade to McT / Fred as well.
Damn those inflated Martinez & Antony transfer fees
Arsenal will look to be spending after the loss of Mudryk to Chelsea as well
Damn those inflated Martinez & Antony transfer fees
Arsenal will look to be spending after the loss of Mudryk to Chelsea as well
There is this thing about Arsenal that they dont spend money.
I remember watching something and United fans were saying Arteta is 3 years into his tenure and Ten Hag 6 months should not be used as an excuse because United spend more than Arsenal.
Arsenal not spending is the biggest myth in football.
The most laughable thing about that argument is the fact that 99% of people were absolutely slating Arteta just last season because they couldn't see what he was trying to do.
Good move for Arsenal, one we should be making.
That can happen to anyone anytime. That's a silly argument to be honest. They have every right to demand 100m or closer in January window.
Arsenal have to do it now, else they will be overtaken by Newcastle in 1-2 seasons. Unfortunately the Wenger mode won't work now, clubs have to invest to sustain against oil clubs. Liverpool is a prime example, they stopped investing and slid down the table.
I don't think it will get to 100m, that's what i'm saying. I reckon it will be 75-80m this window or 75m-80m in the summer. Unless he suddenly starts scoring and assisting loads before the summer that's probably around the figure he will go for. So the risk for Brighton is that they can take that fee now or take it in the summer. Brighton seem to be a smart club and understand that players have a ceiling in terms of ability and price. They also understand if a player wants to go it's best to take the money and invest it back into the squad. They're always fine, it doesn't matter who they sell.
I’m glad you’re not Brighton! I’ll be gutted if he goes he just keeps improving. We’ll easily get 75-80 for him in the summer imo.
Maybe you just aren't listening well enough. Whenever people talk about Arteta and Arsenal it's often spoken about how well he's been backed in several aspects, including when results were poor, when they needed to pay off players to get them out the door, to bringing players in.
Have a read through the Arteta thread, the fact he's spent a lot is mentioned frequently on there.
P.S. Dont think Arsenal will spend what Brighton will look for to get this deal done, either Chelsea will come in or he'll stay until the summer.
As above, I think he has a ceiling, as do all players. I don't disagree that you'd get 75-80m for him in the summer but I think that's likely the maximum anyone would pay for him, now or then. You basically have to weigh up the options and decide what is best in terms of the risks of not selling him and selling him. Perhaps it is also because I rate you so highly that I believe you probably have targets set up in mind to replace him with if needed. Obviously on that end a club can fleece you so it's a risk either way. I'd probably take the risk of selling him now and getting in a couple of players though to squad strengthen.
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he is a boyhood Man Utd fan so he better wait for this summer for us to sign him! He is our natural successor to Casemiro
Obviously from a rival fan, you would give it when they dont do well. I mean I give shit to Liverpool fans give their situation, doesn't mean I think Klopp is rubbish.
Its up to Arsenal fans to see through that and see if they believe the process.
I remember at the start of the season, after the City defeat and our start to the season, I saw alot of rival fans questioning Ten Hag. I saw Ten HAHAHAH come out alot.
That did not mean I said, Ten Hag isnt good, having watched all of pre season, how he dealt with things, journalists close to United, his press conferences, it was clear what he is trying to do. Those results and rival fans judgement didn't fool me.
Even Pundits were questioning Ten Hag, United fans for once I saw a togetherness to back the manager.
Unfortunately, Arsenal fans got caught up in this social media Arteta out movement, backed their favourite player over the manager. Its their fault they couldn't see what he was building.
Alot of Arsenal fans were like why why is Xhaka playing. Its a bit like United fans and Bruno, alot of fans cannot wait to get rid of him.
I don't think there is anyone on that planet that thinks we haven't spent money over the last few years, unless they simply haven't been paying attention.
However I do read on here that Ole and ETH haven't been backed, though over that same three year period that Arteta has been in charge United have spent approximately €42.50m more (net).
Pure spendature over that period:
United - €466.12m
Arsenal - €434.46m
This last summer window prior to the season saw United spend €240.32m, compared to Arsenal's €132.06m.
Add another €49.00m so far this window and we are at €181.06m.
He’s nowhere near, and never will be near, that level.
Ten Hag hasn’t been fully backed yet. He’s only been here 7 months. He’s got no money this window. If he gets what he needs in the summer then we can agree.
Bare in mind Arteta has had over 3 years to shape his squad. This isn’t EtHs yet.
Fans often get bogged down in transfer fees as the indicator of “value”. By this logic Haaland looks like the best value signing in the history of the Premier League. It doesn’t account for the hundreds of millions in wages, signing on bonuses, agents fees and performance bonuses.
Judging a transfer solely by the player registration fee is folly. If Caicedo for £80m is amortised across say 5 years, it is a completely different “value” to say Ronaldo being paid a fortune per week in wages and an astronomical signing on fee who was a “free transfer”.
I don’t think he’ll go until summer for around the £80-90m mark as a registration fee; but the “hidden costs” are always the killer.
i bet boehly’s having to be restrained in the chelsea boardroom whilst an intern tries to unplug all phone and internet connections.
do you like rice or this guy?
Unfortunately, United have some fans who dont look at themselves before comparing. Right now, all I see from some very well followed United fans saying... oh look Arsenal backing Arteta giving him £100m in Jan to win title. Oh look Chelsea are serious, they backing Potter.. Oh look Liverpool being serious with Gapko.
Those are fans who in my opinion don't understand current climate and will say the backing thing.
ETH was backed with 200m in the summer, granted our organisational set up means we overpaid by 50m on all transfers so could be 150m spend not 200m. However; he was backed.
Ole is slightly different, he wanted Haaland, Bellinhham, Grealish and got Ighalo, Ronaldo, VDB. Ole's issue was he was a yes man, so that is a Ole problem not United not backing him.
Talking about ETH, he has been backed, the club is going through a sale, so I dont know what people expect, United to go spend £50m? For what because other clubs are? That is the only reason fans are getting riled up, because Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool spent money. If they actually understood the mechanics, United were never going for the title, no point adding players for sake of it and putting that pressure.
I rather us finish top 4 with the squad we have, Ten Hag to build a style and come summer, he can then say, right now I want X,Y,Z to get to the next level.
Correct. They also get bogged down on things like who are the biggest Net Spenders, without taking into context the overall finances at the club. Chelsea were good in terms of Net Spend under Abramovich in the end because they sold well. However, that still didn't stop them having to rely on Abramovich money.
Think fans forget football finances are made up of a lot more than Transfers In - Transfers Out.
I am not sure if it is because Edu/Arteta couldn't convince Martin Zubimendi to come then they turn to Caicedo. I agree with you I don't think this deal can be done this late in the window.
Yeah he obviously needs more time to shape the squad with his vision in mind.
United did spend big on Antony and Martinez. And whether Casemiro was an ETH signing or not (based on the rumours he didn't want him?), he has turned out to be one of the best midfielders in the league so far this season.
So all in all it's been a good start for him after spending €240.32m.
I think maybe some more wages will need to be cut before spending large again, which was similar to us at this same point last season.
Football fans are usually tunnel visioned, impatient and silly most of the times. Change takes time and to expect a new manager to fully implement his ideas, change the culture of a club, clear out unwanted players and create a style of play that's consistent among his players under 24 months is just stupid. The only way you can get immediate gains is by spending a butt-load of money on player transfers and wages, which isn't sustainable.
No rumours I have seen suggest he didn’t want Casemiro, just that he was a player identified by the club for him as opposed to Martinez and Antony whom he requested directly.
Our wages are coming down significantly fortunately following the exit of Ronaldo and the better management of contracts.
Hard to say, probably Rice as he's more established and looks more solid defensively. He is (currently) a better player.
But I don't want to wait until the end of the season, we need someone now.
Caicedo looks to be better on the ball and can beat a man to create space for himself. This is one thing that sets Partey out from most other DM's, along with the progressive passing.
I think maybe Caicedo would fit our style more at this stage, and I could envision him being able to play both Partey and Xhaka's role. Though I'm not sure Rice could really play the latter's.
They should get both. Caicedo and Rice are long term replacements of Partey and Xhaka respectively.
Ronaldo was a huge millstone wage wise.
Now you really only have DDG on wild wages. He is still a good keeper IMO, but plays seemingly a more outdated style. If you moved him on and brought in Raya you could be saving up to 250k p/w with that move alone.
Some squad options like Maguire, AWB, Martial, McTominay, Jones (side note, I cannot believe he's only 30), Bailley, Telles and DVDB could all be moved on and it would have little, if any, impact on your results on the field - and you'd be saving millions per week even if you replaced half of them.
I reckon ETH will go large on players that fit his vision, try and cut that chaff, and integrate young promising players like Garnacho, Elanga and Diallo.
Did he? I thought he got everybody he wanted for the most part. Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Sancho, Ronaldo, VDB etc. He called the last two to convince them to join us apparently, so you can only assume he was on board.
DDG contract expires this summer (United have a year option but haven’t triggered it) and the word is they are looking for him to reduce his wage and move to our new incentive based pay style if he wants to stay. Raya has been linked and Sanchez.
There’s plenty of deadwood to move on in the summer as you point out. I think we will see a number of outgoings as EtH has had time to assess the squad. Of those mentioned though I would keep AWB and Martial as squad options.
EtH has done well integrating Garnacho so far and developing the likes of Dalot to first choice status. I think for the first time since LvG it feels as though we have a proper coach and coaching set up.
I’m quite excited by Diallo, and Garnacho. We have quite a collection of young forwards when you consider Sancho and Antony are both only 22 themselves. Rashford as the senior man at 25 is crazy thinking back.
There’s quite a lot of similarities with you guys thinking about it. We are just at different points.
Arsenal are obviously an ambitious club. When they’re top of the league they still push for more signings to make sure they remain there. Us on the other hand… if we was top we’d stop there. We’re fighting for all competitions and we don’t have a squad to do it.
Let's go through these one by one.
ETH is in his first summer window after our worst ever pl season. 150 million is average in that scenario. The fact that we overpaid by 50 million is because of the incompetence of those above him.
We agree Ole was a yes man and his mistakes cost us dearly.
He has been given an average summer outlay and now that we are in with a chance to win 3 cups and get a top 4 finish any team that cares about their on field success would try to help the manager. The fact that we seem to have less money to spend than every other pl team is embarrassing and again exposes the motivations and incompetence of those above him. It's not just the three teams you mentioned btw pretty much every other team is spending more than us. Adding players relieves the pressure on the likes of Eriksen and Bruno and the team as a whole. ETH is all about win every game, there is no higher pressure than that and that is the United way.
Of course we want to finish top four and spending money will help us achieve that. This reeks of the Glazers penny pinching before the sale so they don't have to spend any money they don't have to. If we get a couple key injuries and miss out on top 4 they will have fecked us over big time.
Yeah I think United are in a strong position to move forward with ETH.
I posted in the ETH thread yesterday that I thought he was in a similar position to Arteta, in terms of inheriting a bloated squad that required lots of trimming.
Another similarity was their handling of CR7 and PEA respectively. Both teams seem to be building a strong culture and developing that "togetherness" that helps drive results.
Edit: he has also revitalised the careers of Rashford, Shaw and developed Dalot into a solid RB. Similar to Xhaka having a career best season now playing a new role in the side.
Getting way off topic the last few pages!
Fingers crossed. Was good to see us in an old school tussle at weekend. Like the old days.
You deserve to be top and I’m hoping you do it over City.
How do you know? Did you see Casemiro at 21? 21 year old Caicedo > 21 year old Casemiro.
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