Modern Draft Final: Don Alfredo vs. Enigma/TRV

Who will win this match

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Enigma_87 said:
James was seen as passenger in both games he started from comments so he wouldn’t really be rated in that sense IMO. Sanchez is a team player so I doubt there will be much issues with Hazard. Neither is the petulant type.
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Sanchez loses the ball all the time and in style he overlaps with what Hazard wants to do as dribbling forward who wants to be on the ball. He’s also shifted Hazard away form his favourite position.

Think they’d both be better as the left forward with a proper #10 in there as opposed to another player of the same type.
 
This Sanchez and Hazard conundrum really looks like the Sanchez and Martial problem United has in trying to fit them both by moving one out of position.
 
Theon said:
Sanchez loses the ball all the time and in style he overlaps with what Hazard wants to do as dribbling forward who wants to be on the ball. He’s also shifted Hazard away form his favourite position.

Think they’d both be better as the left forward with a proper #10 in there as opposed to another player of the same type.
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Moby said:
This Sanchez and Hazard conundrum really looks like the Sanchez and Martial problem United has in trying to fit them both by moving one out of position.
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To be honest we’ve went with Hazard’s recent form and he has been playing a lot more centrally under Sarri and looks that he has taken his game to a new level. He loves the left channel of course but with no DM in the opposition midfield centrally he’ll have more space and touch the ball more - something he always mentioned that he like most.
 
Gio said:
Interesting debate over Lewandowski and Cavani. Frankly, I thought @oneniltothearsenal was being a bit harsh in the semi-final. My take is that they are on a similar level. The big Pole is a slightly more consistent finisher, while Cavani's movement to get on the end of chances is better. Cavani had a mid-career blip when he was playing out wide for Ibra, but either side of that has been nothing short of sensational for Napoli, PSG and Uruguay. Equally Lewandowski has been a machine for Dortmund and Bayern. He's disappointed me a little for Poland at major tournaments. Clearly doesn't get the same service as at club level, but doesn't do a great deal to create chances out of nothing - which goes back to my earlier point about Cavani's livelier movement and greater mobility
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For me the crucial aspect is this: if neither Lewa nor Cavani scores who would I rather have? Definitely Cavani for me. and I see greater synergy with Cavani and Neymar than Lewa and Alexis or Mbappe

Enigma_87 said:
You obviously rate him but for every other good game at highest level there is dosen of wank performances against the top sides.
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Same applies to Lewa though who was piss poor at the WC against non top sides.
 
18-8 scoreline is brutal,Enigma/Viper looks much better and balanced in my eyes.
 
If I was Enigma/TRV I might have actually kept Sanchez on the right and put Mbappe in the middle or up front alongside Lewa. It's still out of whack balance wise, but at least the players are in positions where they wouldn't step on each others toes.
 
Himannv said:
If I was Enigma/TRV I might have actually kept Sanchez on the right and put Mbappe in the middle or up front alongside Lewa. It's still out of whack balance wise, but at least the players are in positions where they wouldn't step on each others toes.
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Think this was the optimal choice for us all things considered. The problem to me is not Sanchez/Hazard stepping on each other toes, but rather our main core not really been rated highly in this draft which was surprising to see.

Lewa and Hummels are really underrated around here, the latter especially, whilst we thought he was one of the best defenders in the pool.

The other thing is Kante and Kroos not getting much love, and from what I see in the whole draft DM's are not a priority and don't get love at all.

Kante is by far the best DM and really a tier above any other DM/defensive B2B, which prompted to pick him first, but his impact has been really minimal.
 
I went for Alfredo mainly due to a far better defence. Plus his front three are still stellar.

Re-Mbappe yes he's a big, big talent (not the new R9 but really the new George Weah, stylistically he's closer to the latter) and had a good world cup however much is being made of the World Cup and everyone is seemingly forgetting that quality wise it was one of the worst in years. That France side is possibly one of the worst, if not the worst, post-War World Cup winning sides. That's why until he has a bigger body of work overall rating him that highly is premature.
 
Jim Beam said:
Hazard - James - Mbappe with Lewa might have been a better choice imo.
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In a hindsight maybe easier on the eye, but not in terms of quality IMO. James was called worst attacker on the pitch in the game against Moby (which isn't far off to be honest, considering the rest on show) and those 4 are really the best we could field in the game, quality wise.

Think they will do pretty well personally and if we consider Mbappe right, Sanchez left and Hazard through the middle - all of them are really well suited for all those roles and in Hazard's case under Sarri I expect him to continue to be a more central player and not a left winger/forward.
 
Enigma_87 said:
In a hindsight maybe easier on the eye, but not in terms of quality IMO. James was called worst attacker on the pitch in the game against Moby (which isn't far off to be honest, considering the rest on show) and those 4 are really the best we could field in the game, quality wise.

Think they will do pretty well personally and if we consider Mbappe right, Sanchez left and Hazard through the middle - all of them are really well suited for all those roles and in Hazard's case under Sarri I expect him to continue to be a more central player and not a left winger/forward.
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im with beam, would be much better with James in it but even with turd playing on the left you should be winning this even though don has better players.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
im with beam, would be much better with James in it but even with turd playing on the left you should be winning this even though don has better players.
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Personally I thought our best selling point was the central midfield where we should be winning this as Kante and Kroos are the top tier CM's on the park, but that's neglected a bit.

From memory only one manager fielded a more defensive midfield in the draft, which was surprising to see and most of the managers were really adventurous with their approach.

Usually in all time drafts everyone goes with DM/Anchor or at least 2 B2B who are on the defensive side(like Souness, Keane for example), whilst in the modern draft was the other way around.

Have discussed it with TRV on PM and probably that's due to Jose's impact on United and the football we're playing lately. :lol:
 
Physiocrat said:
I went for Alfredo mainly due to a far better defence. Plus his front three are still stellar.

Re-Mbappe yes he's a big, big talent (not the new R9 but really the new George Weah, stylistically he's closer to the latter) and had a good world cup however much is being made of the World Cup and everyone is seemingly forgetting that quality wise it was one of the worst in years. That France side is possibly one of the worst, if not the worst, post-War World Cup winning sides. That's why until he has a bigger body of work overall rating him that highly is premature.
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Mbappe has been stellar for couple of years now, not only at the WC but at club level too.

Wouldn't compare him to Weah stylistically. Mbappe has much better close control and even at this age is better at linking up with other attackers and midfield. Even their frame is different and the only thing that connects them is their pace.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I imagine that's Alexis Sjor's talking about? His stocks has really fallen off for an year or so. Everyone was over the moon we got him last year. :lol:
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nothing to do with his United stint, never rated the guy and is exactly the type of player i hate(selfish, low footballing IQ(tbf those two go hand in hand))....very good player but for the level below highest, at the highest he is a turd.
 
So, since everyone is hating that Pjanic-Thiago-De Bruyne midfield, I will explain a bit why I build it that way.

1. Attacking approach

Playing attacking football was always my intent and I wanted the midfield to follow through with it. Javi Martinez has been suggested, but Bayern's possession play suffered many times in the recent years when Martinez was in midfield because he is useless on the ball. Bayern under Pep away in the CL has been mentioned, where he always played with a defensive approach. He has actually been criticized with no end by Bayern fans for his cowardice in big CL away games. Several times, he did not replicate his usual dominating / attacking style, Bayern conceded 1 goal and they drove home with a very ugly position to find themselves in. No cowardice here, just going at it full throttle.

2. Unbalanced Kante-Kroos double pivot

No one mentioned this in any draft game before, but I always had the opinion that these two don't fit well together. I am not saying this just to argue for my case, there is real life evidence of Kroos-Khedira being hopeless (:() and Kante-Fabregas being terrible. Kroos-Kante has massive star power and I wanted to take away all the strengths of what makes Kante great, because if Kante is not great anymore then De Bruyne was bound to run riot on Enigma's defence.

Kante's best ability is not protecting the defence, it is pressing the opponent, winning the ball in midfield and chasing it everywhere. So, I put three midfielders in my side who are near impossible to press. Kante would be chasing the ball all game, but Pjanic-Thiago-De Bruyne could keep it forever, especially with Kroos not helping much. We saw a similar case in the World Cup final, where Kante looked so bad because Modric-Rakitic was just too good in retaining possession.

This ends up (in my head at least) as Kante chasing the ball upfield, we evade the press, play it to De Bruyne and it becomes De Bruyne vs Kroos with acres of space to play into. If Neymar comes inside, that would be even more dangerous.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Mbappe has been stellar for couple of years now, not only at the WC but at club level too.

Wouldn't compare him to Weah stylistically. Mbappe has much better close control and even at this age is better at linking up with other attackers and midfield. Even their frame is different and the only thing that connects them is their pace.
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But the problem with Mbappe's league performances are the league he's played in.

Maybe he's a little silkier than Weah but Weah was a good dribbler and was super explosive. I think my main impetus for the Weah comparison is that I just don't see Mbappe as the new Ronaldo. His technical ability is much lower and is far less flamboyant with his dribbling.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I imagine that's Alexis Sjor's talking about? His stocks has really fallen off for an year or so. Everyone was over the moon we got him last year. :lol:
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Yeah, for all Sjor's love I assume he would get a bit more appreciation generally if this draft was one year ago.
 
@Don Alfredo you don't need to do anymore selling mate, you have build a great side - well done and congrats on winning the whole thing! :)
 
Sanchez is not a good Boniek but a very good Jairzinho. Not rating him depends on what role you play him in and alongside whom. In his perfect setup, he is a monster. Loved him during his Arsenal peak. A better peak than Hazard's any season for me.

If you use him on the left, having an unselfish Ozil-esque figure through the centre would work wonders with him.

Hazard is not of that mould and him being completely central is neither good for him nor for the team. Even in Sarri's team, he has the freedom to roam along the left central zones

FWIW, I don't think James if of that mould to get the best out of Sanchez too. Its shocking Ozil doesn't feature anywhere near the last few games of this draft. Before his Arsenal days, his peak was at another level and although he did disappear in big games, his chance creation and assist stats were out of the world. Among the best for 5 years straight if I remember.

I liked this idea. Keeps all four of that spectacular defense from Don occupied while Kroos and Kante have more space to run into. Going gung ho a bit, but I would have loved it. When you dont have the best defence, attack the shit out of the opposition Guardiola style. Hard workers like Hazard and Sanchez to help the 4-4-2/4-2-4

Himannv said:
If I was Enigma/TRV I might have actually kept Sanchez on the right and put Mbappe in the middle or up front alongside Lewa. It's still out of whack balance wise, but at least the players are in positions where they wouldn't step on each others toes.
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Physiocrat said:
But the problem with Mbappe's league performances are the league he's played in.

Maybe he's a little silkier than Weah but Weah was a good dribbler and was super explosive. I think my main impetus for the Weah comparison is that I just don't see Mbappe as the new Ronaldo. His technical ability is much lower and is far less flamboyant with his dribbling.
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The chances we will see another player like Fenomeno is really low mate. He was fantastic and no one comes close to his level at that age. Maybe only Pele but that's it. Mbappe is really an exciting talent and I haven't implied ever that he's as good as him at that age or will become as good as him.

However he's close to what Fenomeno did - bring you at the edge of your seat and bring that emotion when he has the ball. The most exciting talent since Ronnie stepping up against Bolton a decade ago.

Weah was pretty good striker, borderline world class and in a short peak one of the best in the world, however Mbappe is much more silkier and closer to Fenomeno than him.

All in all Mbappe will only get better and depending on where he ends up his style will become different at some point. He's more of a team player nowadays being young lad, but when the fame gets to him we might see the more flamboyant part of him :)
 
Don Alfredo said:
where Kante looked so bad because Modric-Rakitic was just too good in retaining possession.
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Kante was sick that day apparently. He was in serious consideration for the player of the tournament before. He also has no problems with shielding Pogba in the national team and Kroos is positionally better in defense.

When Croatia played only Modric - Rakitic they looked worst in the WC, adding Brozovic to the team with his work-rate finally made that midfield work to their potential.

You do have brilliant defense and front three though (didn't change the front 3 the entire draft so also great job at drafting).
 
@Mani could you edit your post? Even though it’s the last hours, posting scores is against the rules
 
Jim Beam said:
He also has no problems with shielding Pogba in the national team and Kroos is positionally better in defense.
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To be fair France plays a midfield 3 with another runner in Matuidi.
 
Jim Beam said:
You do have brilliant defense and front three though (didn't change the front 3 the entire draft so also great job at drafting).
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Nani as my number 2 pick was a bit of a risk because I had no idea how he would be perceived. Some hated him and some loved him, but he gave me big flexibility in upgrading the rest of my side with PL and La Liga players.

I have said before that getting Godin was pure luck by me (playing against Big Dunk the round before I had the first pick in reinforcements), but I thought De Bruyne was the big one. I think he is a bit like the Maradona of this draft (peak as good as anyone's, a notch above all the other number 10s and practically no weaknesses to criticize) and I was genuinely surprised that half a dozen people picked other players in reinforcements before it was my turn. If he has another season like 14/15 or 17/18 and adds some great CL performances to his name, I see no reason why he shouldn't feature in All-Time Drafts.

I would make a similar case for Hazard, he would not look out of place in an All-Time Draft imo.

This has been one of the most interesting parts for me personally, finding out which players would be suitable for an All-Time context.
 
Don Alfredo said:
Thanks mate, I know these debates can get heated but you have been a class act during the match and beyond:D
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Cheers mate, you too!

harms said:
To be fair France plays a midfield 3 with another runner in Matuidi.
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Matuidi only played half of the games tho? And in the Qualies cycle it was either him or Kante on the pitch. Very rarely they played both at the same time.
 
Jim Beam said:
Yeah, that's also true. They also seem at their best playing that way, don't remember there was a big match lately where all 3 weren't involved.
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Against Uruguay they started with Tolisso I think.
 
Enigma_87 said:
The chances we will see another player like Fenomeno is really low mate. He was fantastic and no one comes close to his level at that age. Maybe only Pele but that's it. Mbappe is really an exciting talent and I haven't implied ever that he's as good as him at that age or will become as good as him.

However he's close to what Fenomeno did - bring you at the edge of your seat and bring that emotion when he has the ball. The most exciting talent since Ronnie stepping up against Bolton a decade ago.

Weah was pretty good striker, borderline world class and in a short peak one of the best in the world, however Mbappe is much more silkier and closer to Fenomeno than him.

All in all Mbappe will only get better and depending on where he ends up his style will become different at some point. He's more of a team player nowadays being young lad, but when the fame gets to him we might see the more flamboyant part of him :)
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That's mostly fair. I was reacting to the overhyping he gets and especially from Moby in his last match.

With respect to comparisons I think @Joga Bonito agrees with me that Weah is a better comparison than Ronaldo for Mbappe
 
@2mufc0 @Indnyc Thanks for organizing this draft, I had a blast:drool: I really liked the league restrictions and the pool because it made drafting difficult and reinforcements interesting.
 
I thought Enigma n TRV would have this in the bag. That midfield of Pjanic - Thiago Alcantra on the base to Bruyne is asking for trouble.

And how can you compare Cavani to Lewa? One is spreading attack for PSG, the other for mighty (ruthless) Bayern. One is scoring in French league, the other is in Bundesliga. Not long ago, Cavani was famous for his missing/wastefulness in front of goal.

Both teams deserve in the Final though. Congrats @Don Alfredo !!
 
Congratulations @Don Alfredo - well drafted. The defence was bulletproof within the confines of this pool and the pizzazz in the attack was enough to see you through.

@Enigma_87 and @The Red Viper built yet another juggernaut and I couldn't really split the two teams here.

Physiocrat said:
But the problem with Mbappe's league performances are the league he's played in.

Maybe he's a little silkier than Weah but Weah was a good dribbler and was super explosive. I think my main impetus for the Weah comparison is that I just don't see Mbappe as the new Ronaldo. His technical ability is much lower and is far less flamboyant with his dribbling.
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Like the Weah comparison, well in.

Don Alfredo said:
Nani as my number 2 pick was a bit of a risk because I had no idea how he would be perceived. Some hated him and some loved him, but he gave me big flexibility in upgrading the rest of my side with PL and La Liga players.

I have said before that getting Godin was pure luck by me (playing against Big Dunk the round before I had the first pick in reinforcements), but I thought De Bruyne was the big one. I think he is a bit like the Maradona of this draft (peak as good as anyone's, a notch above all the other number 10s and practically no weaknesses to criticize) and I was genuinely surprised that half a dozen people picked other players in reinforcements before it was my turn. If he has another season like 14/15 or 17/18 and adds some great CL performances to his name, I see no reason why he shouldn't feature in All-Time Drafts.

I would make a similar case for Hazard, he would not look out of place in an All-Time Draft imo.

This has been one of the most interesting parts for me personally, finding out which players would be suitable for an All-Time context.
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Agree with those two and their accelerating standing in an all-time setting. De Bruyne was also critical for you in giving your midfield three a little more graft to make it credible.
 
Congrats @Don Alfredo .

@Enigma_87 , we're the Michael Ballack of RedCafe drafts, Lol. So many finals and semi-finals appearances but not been able to overcome that final hurdle. :(:mad::lol:
 
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