Modern Draft Final: Don Alfredo vs. Enigma/TRV

[Enigma_87]

A peak Luis and current Mbappe would be fecking great watch

Would be a great battle indeed. Mbappe is also deadly in terms of making runs beyond the defense. Exploiting that space between the full-back and centre back.

You can see in the first video, the no of passes Kroos made to the likes of Benzema and Bale etc who were playing on the shoulders of the full-backs and looking to run the channels. Mbappe is dangerous when he has the ball at his feet and can make decisions. But he isn't someone who needs the ball to thrive. His off-ball movement is outstanding and that is one of the reasons why he scores so many goals. His movement and positioning is top notch. He would look to use his sheer pace to slice through that flank and be at the receiving end of Kroos' and Hazard's passes.

And in instances where Mbappe is tightly marked anddoubled by Luis and Godin, thats where Carvajal comes into the picture and adds another dimension with his overlapping runs. Godin and Luis would be pre-occupied with Mbappe. Don Alfredo has no real box-box midfielders with good engine as well who can cover the full-backs. As it is, both Pjanic and Thiago would have no clue how to deal with Hazard. That allows Carvajal to bomb forward and create chaos down that right wing. He can provide some great crosses and in Lewandowski and Alexis etc, we have ideal players who are great in the air and can convert them.

 

[Don Alfredo]

And in instances where Mbappe is tightly marked anddoubled by Luis and Godin, thats where Carvajal comes into the picture and adds another dimension with his overlapping runs. Godin and Luis would be pre-occupied with Mbappe. Don Alfredo has no real box-box midfielders with good engine as well who can cover the full-backs. As it is, both Pjanic and Thiago would have no clue how to deal with Hazard. That allows Carvajal to bomb forward and create chaos down that right wing. He can provide some great crosses and in Lewandowski and Alexis etc, we have ideal players who are great in the air and can convert them

What kind of logic is that? Mbappe is taking out Godin and Luis, the best CB and the best defensive LB of the draft, ALL by himself?

How can you describe Alexis as a player who is great in the air? He has no chance of winning headers against Azpi, Boateng, Godin, Luis backline.

Lewandowski is your only player who is great in the air and he is up against the best CB duo in the draft, plus Azpi can support as well. It just makes no sense to say you will get good chances in the air.

Carvajal bombing forward is not a wise move at all. Neymar is left unmarked and if one of my excellent passers at the back sets him up for a 1v1 vs Gimenez, it is gonna end deadly.

Here is Neymar's record vs Real Madrid at his peak in La Liga

16/17: 1 match 1 assist
15/16: 2 matches 1 goal 1 assist
14/15: 2 matches 1 goal
13/14: 2 matches 1 goal 3 assists

This means in 7 matches vs Real, he scored 4 and assisted another 4. That is a really good record, especially if you consider that he was not the main goalscorer (Suarez) or the main star (Messi). He played second fiddle with a sub-optimal LB (tactical fit with Alba was very bad).

 

[2mufc0]

Said it in my first game with Moby but Mbappe is getting over rated in this draft, yesterday's game showed he still has a lot to prove.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Said it in my first game with Moby but Mbappe is getting over rated in this draft, yesterday's game showed he still has a lot to prove.

yeah, one game in a piss poor(highest level criteria) team proves he is not a special player.....thankfully he doesnt have 2 and a half years of exceptional performances behind him and a even better World Cup. feck, thats more then some oldies have and yet we use them in all-time drafts.

 

[MJJ]

We do have a ball winner in ours tho

That's true but hazard won't be contributing anything whereas kdb will do something.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Voted for enigma/trv, a lot that i dont like in their team(gk is trash, CBs could/should be better, never rated Alexis personally) but that midfield of don just wins it for them. Cant see that working and i rate both Thiago and KDB to heavens and back.

 

[Enigma_87]

Said it in my first game with Moby but Mbappe is getting over rated in this draft, yesterday's game showed he still has a lot to prove.

Yes, he’s young but probably the most exciting talent from a long time.

Yesterday also proved that Cavani and Neymar are on the wane a bit and especially in the latters case another game where he was underwhelming when it matters.

 

[Enigma_87]

That's true but hazard won't be contributing anything whereas kdb will do something.

But Sanchez also brings a lot of work rate. Hazard also has the work rate to do something compared to Neymar and Nani.

 

[Don Alfredo]

yeah, one game in a piss poor(highest level criteria) team proves he is not a special player.....thankfully he doesnt have 2 and a half years of exceptional performances behind him and a even better World Cup. feck, thats more then some oldies have and yet we use them in all-time drafts.

Mbappe's 17/18 season was not exceptional if you take out his age, which you have to in this draft.

13 goals in Ligue 1 is nowhere near exceptional and his form was very average after January. From first January onwards, he only scored 4 goals in the league and was disappointing in the CL vs Real in both legs with no goals no assists.

Yes, he’s young but probably the most exciting talent from a long time.

Yesterday also proved that Cavani and Neymar are on the wane a bit and especially in the latters case another game where he was underwhelming when it matters.

Yesterday's performances have zero effect on how good Neymar and Cavani should be rated here because they had 3 great peak years already. I won't use it as a yardstick for Mbappe either because that is a bit silly, CL group stage is not that important anyways.

 

[Enigma_87]

What kind of logic is that? Mbappe is taking out Godin and Luis, the best CB and the best defensive LB of the draft, ALL by himself?

How can you describe Alexis as a player who is great in the air? He has no chance of winning headers against Azpi, Boateng, Godin, Luis backline.

Lewandowski is your only player who is great in the air and he is up against the best CB duo in the draft, plus Azpi can support as well. It just makes no sense to say you will get good chances in the air.

Carvajal bombing forward is not a wise move at all. Neymar is left unmarked and if one of my excellent passers at the back sets him up for a 1v1 vs Gimenez, it is gonna end deadly.

Here is Neymar's record vs Real Madrid at his peak in La Liga

16/17: 1 match 1 assist
15/16: 2 matches 1 goal 1 assist
14/15: 2 matches 1 goal
13/14: 2 matches 1 goal 3 assists

This means in 7 matches vs Real, he scored 4 and assisted another 4. That is a really good record, especially if you consider that he was not the main goalscorer (Suarez) or the main star (Messi). He played second fiddle with a sub-optimal LB (tactical fit with Alba was very bad).

Neymar’s record agains Carvajal is 2 goals in 8 games when both were on the pitch mate. Not sure where your stats come from but they are misleading.

 

[2mufc0]

yeah, one game in a piss poor(highest level criteria) team proves he is not a special player.....thankfully he doesnt have 2 and a half years of exceptional performances behind him and a even better World Cup. feck, thats more then some oldies have and yet we use them in all-time drafts.

World cup aside he hasn't done anything extraordinary (in a draft final context that is) .

I don't attach much weight to French league performances, he's done OK in CL group stages but hasn't influenced knock outs much.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yesterday's performances have zero effect on how good Neymar and Cavani should be rated here because they had 3 great peak years already. I won't use it as a yardstick for Mbappe either because that is a bit silly, CL group stage is not that important anyways.

Personally I never rated Cavani mate. Regardless of this game or the draft of Higuain misses chances and gets called a bottler often Cavani really takes it to another level.

You obviously rate him but for every other good game at highest level there is dosen of wank performances against the top sides.

 

[Moby]

Mbappe's 17/18 season was not exceptional if you take out his age, which you have to in this draft.

13 goals in Ligue 1 is nowhere near exceptional and his form was very average after January. From first January onwards, he only scored 4 goals in the league and was disappointing in the CL vs Real in both legs with no goals no assists.

He's starred in a WC winning team after that with exceptional breathtaking performances standing out in a highly talented team. I'd take that over a 35 goal Ligue 1 season.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Mbappe's 17/18 season was not exceptional if you take out his age, which you have to in this draft.

13 goals in Ligue 1 is nowhere near exceptional and his form was very average after January. From first January onwards, he only scored 4 goals in the league and was disappointing in the CL vs Real in both legs with no goals no assists.

you guys are way to obsessed with stats....but even if you look just at the stats, 13 goals in 27 games from the wing is impressive, specially when you consider the type of striker he has in his team, if he had Lewa for example his numbers would go up.

 

[2mufc0]

Yes, he’s young but probably the most exciting talent from a long time.

Yesterday also proved that Cavani and Neymar are on the wane a bit and especially in the latters case another game where he was underwhelming when it matters.

Point is that he has a lot to prove esp in CL. Neymar has a much larger body of work and was instrumental in CL win.

 

[Moby]

World cup aside he hasn't done anything extraordinary (in a draft final context that is) .

Given that's the biggest stage in world football having taken that tournament by storm he's already achieved more than what 99.9% of footballers can dream of including some of the "long timers" on show here. Imagine choosing Nani over Mbappe in a football match.

 

[2mufc0]

Personally I never rated Cavani mate. Regardless of this game or the draft of Higuain misses chances and gets called a bottler often Cavani really takes it to another level.

You obviously rate him but for every other good game at highest level there is dosen of wank performances against the top sides.

I have Higuain, Lewa and Cavani all on a similar level, Cavani probably the lowest of the 3 but not much in it. Case can be made for all being bottlers.

 

[Enigma_87]

Point is that he has a lot to prove esp in CL. Neymar has a much larger body of work and was instrumental in CL win.

My point was that Mbappe is too young to consider him just on one game. Ronaldo 9, was tearing teams apart at 19 and had some bad games.

He’s not as good as him but considering the ceiling he can reach I have no doubt he’ll be the best player in the world in a short time.

 

[2mufc0]

Given that's the biggest stage in world football having taken that tournament by storm he's already achieved more than what 99.9% of footballers can dream of including some of the "long timers" on show here. Imagine choosing Nani over Mbappe in a football match.

Kleberson has won the world cup and plenty of other players too. It's not the be all and end all of rating players.

 

[Enigma_87]

I have Higuain, Lewa and Cavani all on a similar level, Cavani probably the lowest of the 3 but not much in it. Case can be made for all being bottlers.

I’ve pasted some of the stats in the big games in CL mate. Cavani is no where near Lewa if we talk about goals.

 

[2mufc0]

My point was that Mbappe is too young to consider him just on one game. Ronaldo 9, was tearing teams apart at 19 and had some bad games.

He’s not as good as him but considering the ceiling he can reach I have no doubt he’ll be the best player in the world in a short time.

No doubt about potential, imo the best youngster in the world and by a distance. All I'm saying is he still has a lot to prove.

 

[Enigma_87]

No doubt about potential, imo the best youngster in the world and by a distance. All I'm saying is he still has a lot to prove.

Yes of course. My point was that Cavani and Neymar who are supposed to be at their peak and much more experienced should have done something yesterday. The expectations should be on their shoulders not on Mbappe.

 

[MJJ]

Loved Squires' take on that one-two:

Spoiler

that's brilliant.

 

[Don Alfredo]

My point was that Mbappe is too young to consider him just on one game. Ronaldo 9, was tearing teams apart at 19 and had some bad games.

He’s not as good as him but considering the ceiling he can reach I have no doubt he’ll be the best player in the world in a short time.

Can we please agree to stop comparing Mbappe to Luis Ronaldo? That stuff is so much overhyping it is not even funny anymore. When Luis Ronaldo was 20, he scored 34 in 37 in La Liga. Mbappe's best goal tally in a league season is 15 goals in Ligue 1 so please do not go near that comparison anymore. Completely different level.

Everyone is exited about Mbappe, about how good he is gonna turn out to be, but that is actually not relevant here. Just his performances up to now, his age is just a number in this draft.

 

[MJJ]

But Sanchez also brings a lot of work rate. Hazard also has the work rate to do something compared to Neymar and Nani.

Fair enough on sanchez but nani was very hardworking too.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

World cup aside he hasn't done anything extraordinary (in a draft final context that is) .

I don't attach much weight to French league performances, he's done OK in CL group stages but hasn't influenced knock outs much.

Sure, that would be a valid point if this was a different type of draft but here he has done more at highest level then any other attacker on the pitch in that final apart from Neymar.
Lewa - great player but his record in big games outside Dortmund is a bit meh
Cavani - whole career in piss poor leagues
Alexis - flopped at Barca and spent his whole career at level below highest which is his level IMO
Nani - was pretty damn good for one period but that period wasnt that long and tbf that level was below Mbappes
Hazard - great player but did feck all in europe, not entirely his fault but same applies for Mbappe, not his fault PSG is a circus.

So its not he is sharing the pitch with all-time greats.

 

[Moby]

Kleberson has won the world cup and plenty of other players too. It's not the be all and end all of rating players.

Yea that's a logical comparison. Literally wrote in my post how it was his breathtaking form and pure matchwinning impact making the difference on a stage which matters the most for any footballer is the reason and not just being in a winning team.

Plenty of historical players with full careers get picked in drafts primarily because of their history in world cups. Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Ronaldo, etc etc. It's a fecking modern drafts so you'd obviously have players who haven't finished their careers. That's the entire premise, imagine holding that against someone who has drawn insane appreciation far beyond loads of other token WC winners, but Klebersoonnnn ohh.

He was voted as 7th in last year's Ballon D'or even before that World Cup win. Will improve on that this time. Plenty on envy on this site for someone who is clearly a generational talent starting with those "Rashford is as good as him" threads. People are weird.

 

[Enigma_87]

Can we please agree to stop comparing Mbappe to Luis Ronaldo? That stuff is so much overhyping it is not even funny anymore. When Luis Ronaldo was 20, he scored 34 in 37 in La Liga. Mbappe's best goal tally in a league season is 15 goals in Ligue 1 so please do not go near that comparison anymore. Completely different level.

Everyone is exited about Mbappe, about how good he is gonna turn out to be, but that is actually not relevant here. Just his performances up to now, his age is just a number in this draft.

He’s real talent, Mbappe, not as good as Ronaldo, but then who was/is?

My point on Ronaldo was that only few excited at such young age and Mbappe was certainly one of them.

 

[Enigma_87]

Fair enough on sanchez but nani was very hardworking too.

I recall him being lazy at times and it was Valencia on the other flank who was the tireless runner.

Kante adds a lot of balance to our midfield mate. On the other side there are 3 playmakers and no real ball winner. It lacks balance much more than ours.

 

[Moby]

Can we please agree to stop comparing Mbappe to Luis Ronaldo? That stuff is so much overhyping it is not even funny anymore. When Luis Ronaldo was 20, he scored 34 in 37 in La Liga. Mbappe's best goal tally in a league season is 15 goals in Ligue 1 so please do not go near that comparison anymore. Completely different level.

Everyone is exited about Mbappe, about how good he is gonna turn out to be, but that is actually not relevant here. Just his performances up to now, his age is just a number in this draft.

https://www.ft.com/content/147b3d24-7eba-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475

 

[Jim Beam]

Tbh both teams look like they have been picked by Ed Woodward

 

[Enigma_87]

Tbh both teams look like they have been picked by Ed Woodward

Probably one of the most attacking teams I’ve put up here. Not welcomed that much tho. The funny part is that the other team is even more attacking

 

[Theon]

Not a fan of either midfields. No idea why @Don Alfredo didn’t get Muller for Nani, or if he wanted a central midfielder Javi Martinez at his peak would have been a wonderful fit.

For the opposition I expected James to play. Hazard works best playing in that inside left channel, it’s a huge part of his game and I don’t think he’s complimented by Sánchez. There’s so much directness in Sánchez, Hazard, Mbappe think they would be better served with a conventional #10 in there instead. Can see then struggling to retain possession at times with all that propensity for dribbling. I think Sánchez would infuriate Hazard.

 

[2mufc0]

Yea that's a logical comparison. Literally wrote in my post how it was his breathtaking form and pure matchwinning impact making the difference on a stage which matters the most for any footballer is the reason and not just being in a winning team.

Plenty of historical players with full careers get picked in drafts primarily because of their history in world cups. Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Ronaldo, etc etc. It's a fecking modern drafts so you'd obviously have players who haven't finished their careers. That's the entire premise, imagine holding that against someone who has drawn insane appreciation far beyond loads of other token WC winners, but Klebersoonnnn ohh.

He was voted as 7th in last year's Ballon D'or even before that World Cup win. Will improve on that this time. Plenty on envy on this site for someone who is clearly a generational talent starting with those "Rashford is as good as him" threads. People are weird.

Nothing to do with jealousy, you can check my post history in that very thread and how much I laughed at it. Already said he's the best young talent by a margin too. Not sure why you are taking things so personally lately, relax.

 

[2mufc0]

Yes of course. My point was that Cavani and Neymar who are supposed to be at their peak and much more experienced should have done something yesterday. The expectations should be on their shoulders not on Mbappe.

But he's being portrayed as some R9 figure and 'breathtaking match winner' but he's never consistently done that, that's what I meant by over rating.

Imo the only player to R9's early years since he came on the scene is a 16 year old Lionel Messi. I haven't seen anyone since who's been as good as him at a young age.

 

[Indnyc]

Voted for @Don Alfredo purely based on having a better defense/goalkeeper

Both attacks are excellent and I feel it’s a matter of preference in terms of personnel

 

[Moby]

Nothing to do with jealousy, you can check my post history in that very thread and how much I laughed at it. Already said he's the best young talent by a margin too. Not sure why you are taking things so personally lately, relax.

Simply calling out bullshit arguments that are bullshit.

 

[2mufc0]

Simply calling out bullshit arguments that are bullshit.

If it makes you feel better

 

[Theon]

Agree with @2mufc0 and @Don Alfredo on the Luis Ronaldo comparisons. A bit much to be honest.

Not that I think Enigma has been particularly excessive himself.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not a fan of either midfields. No idea why @Don Alfredo didn’t get Muller for Nani, or if he wanted a central midfielder Javi Martinez at his peak would have been a wonderful fit.

For the opposition I expected James to play. Hazard works best playing in that inside left channel, it’s a huge part of his game and I don’t think he’s complimented by Sánchez. There’s so much directness in Sánchez, Hazard, Mbappe think they would be better served with a conventional #10 in there instead. Can see then struggling to retain possession at times with all that propensity for dribbling. I think Sánchez would infuriate Hazard.

James was seen as passenger in both games he started from comments so he wouldn’t really be rated in that sense IMO. Sanchez is a team player so I doubt there will be much issues with Hazard. Neither is the petulant type.