Chicks dig the long ball.
MLB 2021
- Thread starter Turnip
- Start date
Fun game, diametrically opposite of last night for the BoSox.
Yep. I just don’t think we can do it 2 more times.
So of course I take the dog for a walk and come home to the Giants up 2 already.
Also, I am not done with this debate, I will convince you all those Phillies were equal or a hair better later.
Also, I am not done with this debate, I will convince you all those Phillies were equal or a hair better later.
It's 'y'all.'So of course I take the dog for a walk and come home to the Giants up 2 already.
Also, I am not done with this debate, I will convince you all those Phillies were equal or a hair better later.
I am a believer in ya'll, but apparently my 2 years in the North are having an effect.
Webb looking fantastic tonight. Outpitching Buehler.
At this point I’m talking to myself but feck it.
Bryant with a bomb and Webb is pitching like prime Maddux. Let’s go Giants!
Bryant with a bomb and Webb is pitching like prime Maddux. Let’s go Giants!
Crawford!!!!!!
I'm keeping an eye on it.. phillies missed out again so not too invested in the playoffs
Great win tonight. Should be another pitchers duel tomorrow, just hope first half Gaussman shows up.
What happened to the Rays they were winning when I went to bed
Boston decided to hit a couple of home runs.What happened to the Rays they were winning when I went to bed
Think it will be the Astros coming out of the AL. Their lineup is too stacked.
I haven't watched other teams that much, besides when they play the Astros, so I'm not sure how the compare against thebest, but if a guy like Kyle Tucker isn't one of the top 4 hitters in the order (he's 7th) it must be of the best lineups out there.
Correa hitting 6th too. Crazy.
Didn't they win a couple division titles in the early 80s, were fairly competitive overall, before stinking it up in the second half of the decade?
One of the best baseball commercials ever.
They won the NL West once in 1982, then got swept by the Cardinals in the playoffs.
Easily.
Ok, so back to the Braves vs. Phillies rotation debate.
I took the best 6 year stretch (by WAR) for the two matchups as that let me squeak the 1998 season in for all the Braves. Can you figure out who is who?
1. Maddux vs. Halladay
2. Glavine vs. Lee
3. Smoltz vs. Hamels
If we just compare those rotations (1998 Braves vs. 2011 Phillies) we can see that the Phillies had better averages in every area, with the difference in cumulative WAR being the differences in innings pitched.
This was fun and now that I have the database up and running I think I am going to see if I can find the best historical rotations to see if I/we overlooked one.
I took the best 6 year stretch (by WAR) for the two matchups as that let me squeak the 1998 season in for all the Braves. Can you figure out who is who?
1. Maddux vs. Halladay
| WAR | IP | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | H/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitcher A | 50.7 | 1406 | 2.15 | 7.0 | 1.3 | 0.4 | 7.4 |
| Pitcher B | 40.0 | 1413 | 2.87 | 7.2 | 1.4 | 0.7 | 8.5 |
A = Maddux
B = Halladay
B = Halladay
| WAR | IP | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | H/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitcher A | 38.3 | 1330 | 2.90 | 8.1 | 1.3 | 0.8 | 8.5 |
| Pitcher B | 29.2 | 1377 | 3.18 | 5.9 | 3.0 | 0.6 | 8.4 |
A = Lee
B = Halladay
B = Halladay
| WAR | IP | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | H/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitcher A | 36.1 | 1188 | 3.17 | 8.7 | 2.4 | 0.7 | 7.8 |
| Pitcher B | 26.3 | 1279 | 3.31 | 8.4 | 2.1 | 1.0 | 8.1 |
A = Smoltz (that 1996 season was insane and is a huge part of the difference)
B = Hamels
B = Hamels
If we just compare those rotations (1998 Braves vs. 2011 Phillies) we can see that the Phillies had better averages in every area, with the difference in cumulative WAR being the differences in innings pitched.
| WAR | IP | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | H/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1998 Braves | 26.5 | 1031 | 2.98 | 7.5 | 2.4 | 0.7 | 8.0 |
| 2011 Phillies | 23.4 | 820 | 2.71 | 8.2 | 1.7 | 0.6 | 8.0 |
This was fun and now that I have the database up and running I think I am going to see if I can find the best historical rotations to see if I/we overlooked one.
The Orioles had some good staffs in the late 60s/early 70s. Featured four 20-game winners one season, granted wins does not indicate greatness necessarily.
Never knew Halladay pitched for the Braves. Busy man.
I got all three correct.
Thanks for the stats.
Praise be to Halladay
Cliff Lee was pretty damn good for a few years. Clutch when needed, usually.
Maddux had a subpar postseason career, Glavine was alright but Smoltz was the man in October.
Maddux had a subpar postseason career, Glavine was alright but Smoltz was the man in October.
Here are the top 10 rotations since 1960 based on the peak (6 year combined) WAR of the top 5 started (by games started that year). I can't believe I missed #1 and #2 is an artifact as both Wells and Clemens were 40.
So that got me thinking, what if we limit it to teams in which the pitchers were pitching in their 6 year peak (ie, Clemens would not be included in the 2003 Yankees cumulative WAR as his peak 6 year span did not include 2003). A familiar team is sitting on top. I guess I need to eat crow
Finally, many of those 60s/70s teams only ran out 3 or 4 starters, so if I reduced it down to the top 3 starters and used the same peak rules as the previous analysis we get this:
A couple of thoughts:
1) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
2) I had no idea Jon Matlack existed
3) There's the Phils!
4) 1996 Smoltz was insane
5) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
| Year | Team | Cumulative WAR |
|---|---|---|
1966 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 171.7 |
2003 | New York Yankees | 166.3 |
1996 | Atlanta Braves | 162.5 |
1976 | New York Mets | 160.6 |
1998 | Atlanta Braves | 159.1 |
2002 | New York Yankees | 157.4 |
2003 | Arizona Diamondbacks | 155.9 |
1999 | Atlanta Braves | 155.9 |
1965 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 152.0 |
1977 | Texas Rangers | 150.9 |
So that got me thinking, what if we limit it to teams in which the pitchers were pitching in their 6 year peak (ie, Clemens would not be included in the 2003 Yankees cumulative WAR as his peak 6 year span did not include 2003). A familiar team is sitting on top. I guess I need to eat crow
| Year | Team | Cumulative WAR |
|---|---|---|
1998 | Atlanta Braves | 159.105 |
2018 | Cleveland Indians | 149.793 |
1995 | Atlanta Braves | 140.997 |
1985 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 136.666 |
1997 | Atlanta Braves | 134.332 |
1996 | Atlanta Braves | 134.176 |
1966 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 133.801 |
1962 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 131.676 |
2015 | Washington Nationals | 131.575 |
1971 | Baltimore Orioles | 130.76 |
Finally, many of those 60s/70s teams only ran out 3 or 4 starters, so if I reduced it down to the top 3 starters and used the same peak rules as the previous analysis we get this:
| Year | Team | Cumulative WAR |
|---|---|---|
1965 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 129.78 |
1966 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 129.78 |
1996 | Atlanta Braves | 115.155 |
1974 | New York Mets | 109.591 |
1975 | New York Mets | 109.591 |
2002 | Arizona Diamondbacks | 108.256 |
2001 | Arizona Diamondbacks | 107.064 |
2011 | Philadelphia Phillies | 104.503 |
1997 | Atlanta Braves | 104.441 |
1971 | Minnesota Twins | 103.235 |
A couple of thoughts:
1) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
2) I had no idea Jon Matlack existed
3) There's the Phils!
4) 1996 Smoltz was insane
5) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
Let’s go Giants!
Here are the top 10 rotations since 1960 based on the peak (6 year combined) WAR of the top 5 started (by games started that year). I can't believe I missed #1 and #2 is an artifact as both Wells and Clemens were 40.
Year Team Cumulative WAR Los Angeles Dodgers New York Yankees Atlanta Braves New York Mets Atlanta Braves New York Yankees Arizona Diamondbacks Atlanta Braves Los Angeles Dodgers Texas Rangers
So that got me thinking, what if we limit it to teams in which the pitchers were pitching in their 6 year peak (ie, Clemens would not be included in the 2003 Yankees cumulative WAR as his peak 6 year span did not include 2003). A familiar team is sitting on top. I guess I need to eat crow
Year Team Cumulative WAR Atlanta Braves Cleveland Indians Atlanta Braves Los Angeles Dodgers Atlanta Braves Atlanta Braves Los Angeles Dodgers Los Angeles Dodgers Washington Nationals Baltimore Orioles
Finally, many of those 60s/70s teams only ran out 3 or 4 starters, so if I reduced it down to the top 3 starters and used the same peak rules as the previous analysis we get this:
Year Team Cumulative WAR Los Angeles Dodgers Los Angeles Dodgers Atlanta Braves New York Mets New York Mets Arizona Diamondbacks Arizona Diamondbacks Philadelphia Phillies Atlanta Braves Minnesota Twins
A couple of thoughts:
1) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
2) I had no idea Jon Matlack existed
3) There's the Phils!
4) 1996 Smoltz was insane
5) I wish I had been able to watch Koufax
This is great, appreciate your effort and time. I had pitching coaches growing up who were in the Dodgers organization and they just raved about Koufax. His competitive nature and hammer (curveball) are legendary. He was very polite as well apparently. I thought a lot about Koufax and Bob Gibson. Gibson to me was the man when learning about modern baseball after WW2.
Thanks!
Not much effort once I fired up my server and since I rarely get to code these days it was an excuse to have some fun.
I was shocked to not see Gibson's Cardinals in the top 10 as his late 60's season were insane and he had a young Carlton there with him.
It's a shame the game is engineered nowadays to basically eliminate a Gibson-esque player altogether.
He struck fear and respect to opposing hitters. The elimination of pitching inside and brushing back hitters without repercussions hurt the game.
I understand you don't want players getting hit, especially in the head and they can sustain injuries from HBP, but when hitters close off the inner half and dive into pitches at will while having protective padding...pitchers need to be able to attack inside once in a while.
Absolutely.
My one hope with the coming of electronic strike calling is that they establish some sort of "neutral zone" on he inside of the plate. Basically from the edge of the plate outward 6-8 inches and below the shoulders. Any pitch in this zone that hits a batter will be called a ball but the hitter does not get a base. Not going to happen, but it would help address this problem.
Brewcrew undone by the Braves in Game 2. 1-1 tied series.
On to Atlanta...
On to Atlanta...
Let’s go Giants!
really tight zone tonight, nothing on the corners called strikes yet.
Wow.....That was 6 inches outside.
Gaussman is hanging that spliter way too much. Needs to finish the pitch.