Middle East Politics

Mozza said:
Its Israels own fault, the Israelis have no interest in negotiating a truly independent Palestine, therefore this must turn into a struggle for equal rights
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1917 Balfour Declaration: Arab Rejection
1922 Churchill White Paper:Arab Rejection
1930 Passfield White Paper: Arab Rejection
1937 Peel Commission Report:Arab Rejection
1939 White Paper: Arab Rejection
1947 UN Partition Plan: Arab Rejection
1949 Armistice Agreements: Arab Rejection
1967 Post Six-Day War: Arab Rejection
1978 The Camp David Accords: Arab Rejection
1991 The Madrid Conference: Mixed Signals
1993 The “Oslo I” Accord: Mixed Signals
1994 The Gaza Jericho Agreement: Arab Rejection
1994 The Agreement on the Preparatory Transfer of Powers and Responsibilities: Arab Rejection
1996 The “Summit of the Peacemakers”: Arab Rejection
1997 The Protocol Concerning the Redeployment in Hebron: Arab Rejection
1998 The Wye River Memorandum: Arab Rejection
1999 The Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum: Arab Rejection
2000 The Camp David II Summit: Arab Rejection
2000: Sharm el-Sheikh Summit: Arab Rejection
2001: Mitchell Report: Arab Rejection
2002: Tenet - Powell - Burns Renewed Efforts to Stop the Violence: Arab Rejection
2003: The Quartet’s Roadmap and June 3, 2003 Aqaba Summit: No Compliance
2005: Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt Summit: No Compliance
2007: Peace talks: Mixed Signals
2014: Peace talks: Collapsed
 
Fearless said:
1917 Balfour Declaration: Arab Rejection
1922 Churchill White Paper:Arab Rejection
1930 Passfield White Paper: Arab Rejection
1937 Peel Commission Report:Arab Rejection
1939 White Paper: Arab Rejection
1947 UN Partition Plan: Arab Rejection
1949 Armistice Agreements: Arab Rejection
1967 Post Six-Day War: Arab Rejection
1978 The Camp David Accords: Arab Rejection
1991 The Madrid Conference: Mixed Signals
1993 The “Oslo I” Accord: Mixed Signals
1994 The Gaza Jericho Agreement: Arab Rejection
1994 The Agreement on the Preparatory Transfer of Powers and Responsibilities: Arab Rejection
1996 The “Summit of the Peacemakers”: Arab Rejection
1997 The Protocol Concerning the Redeployment in Hebron: Arab Rejection
1998 The Wye River Memorandum: Arab Rejection
1999 The Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum: Arab Rejection
2000 The Camp David II Summit: Arab Rejection
2000: Sharm el-Sheikh Summit: Arab Rejection
2001: Mitchell Report: Arab Rejection
2002: Tenet - Powell - Burns Renewed Efforts to Stop the Violence: Arab Rejection
2003: The Quartet’s Roadmap and June 3, 2003 Aqaba Summit: No Compliance
2005: Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt Summit: No Compliance
2007: Peace talks: Mixed Signals
2014: Peace talks: Collapsed
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It is perfectly acceptable to reject an offer that rewards the theft of their land and whos end point is an apartheid state
 
VidaRed said:
A two state solution would only prolong the conflict.
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Correct. The offer from Israel is Apartheid, the Palestinian people would be abused as they are now, so the conflict wouldn't end.

Only one nation with 2 Parliaments, one Jewish, one Palestinian, between whom there would have to be concensus to pass law can a peace be achieved
 
Mozza said:
No. It's the only way this conflict ends, equal rights, equal representation
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I don't think it is realistic in any way. But even when considering it as a purely hypothetical scenario, it would be about as feasible as reuniting Yugoslavia after the Balkan wars, imo.
 
Mozza said:
No. It's the only way this conflict ends, equal rights, equal representation
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I'd give such an arrangement about 5 minutes before the Jew killings would start. Don't pretend otherwise.

“Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud”

London...last Friday.

 
Fearless said:
I'd give such an arrangement about 5 minutes before the Jew killings would start. Don't pretend otherwise.

“Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud”

London...last Friday.
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Do you really believe in that or are you just being hyperbolic?

I can imagine a minority still trying to attack jews but in all likelihood the vast majority of palestinians are and will be more concerned about their everyday life. Also Jews would be heavily represented in the police, military, justice and politics, you have by far the most competent personnel in terms of numbers and any one state solution would see you have an early advantage for the sake of efficiency.
 
Mozza said:
Its Israels own fault, the Israelis have no interest in negotiating a truly independent Palestine, therefore this must turn into a struggle for equal rights
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In truth it is silly to point to one side or the other as being to blame. There has been a near constant state of war between Israel and the Palestinians/arabs including the targeting of civilians by both sides. Where we stand now is a result of what both sides have helped create.
 
JPRouve said:
Do you really believe in that or are you just being hyperbolic?

I can imagine a minority still trying to attack jews but in all likelihood the vast majority of palestinians are and will be more concerned about their everyday life. Also Jews would be heavily represented in the police, military, justice and politics, you have by far the most competent personnel in terms of numbers and any one state solution would see you have an early advantage for the sake of efficiency.
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Nice sentiments, but the rest of the Muslim middle east can't even live with itself, let alone Jews.
When a society is poisoned as per the clip below, it's not hard to appreciate how deeply entrenched jihad is.

 
Fearless said:
Nice sentiments, but the rest of the Muslim middle east can't even live with itself, let alone Jews.
When a society is poisoned as per the clip below, it's not hard to appreciate how deeply entrenched jihad is.

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But one of the reason behind the entrenchment is the very existence of two visible and openly opposed camps. You might not realize it but your attitude is part of the problem. I have read your posts and you are constantly in the "us vs them", which is the potting soil of the problem.
I understand the fear and resentment but those are the fuel of the fire that you fear, you see the Ouroboros? As long as you are living in separate societies you will be both poisoned and I won't pretend that terrorism will disappear, that only Israel has to make all the steps, that it won't take time but as long as your children live in a different societies you will live in fear of the other. You have to take that one for your children and grand children otherwise we will be in the same situation in 60 years.
 
JPRouve said:
But one of the reason behind the entrenchment is the very existence of two visible and openly opposed camps. You might not realize it but your attitude is part of the problem. I have read your posts and you are constantly in the "us vs them", which is the potting soil of the problem.
I understand the fear and resentment but those are the fuel of the fire that you fear, you see the Ouroboros? As long as you are living in separate societies you will be both poisoned and I won't pretend that terrorism will disappear, that only Israel has to make all the steps, that it won't take time but as long as your children live in a different societies you will live in fear of the other. You have to take that one for your children and grand children otherwise we will be in the same situation in 60 years.
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France is already in the same situation.
 
Fearless said:
Have a read of this. It was written in 1997.

http://www.meforum.org/338/islam-in-france-the-french-have-themselves-to
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You do realize that the article doesn't describe two societies that are facing each others? Now, we do have xenophobes in France, we do have people afraid of africans, asians, eastern europeans and north africans but they are a minority and generally a silent minority. The article is written by an intelligent man but his agenda is obvious and made even more obvious when he writes that the protestants where better welcomed than the algerians, he missed a page of history.

But in general, the rift that he was trying to create only exists in a vacuum. In France we have a class problem between the have and have not, and logically most first and second generation immigrants are among the have not and that's true for everyone whether you are from Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, South America or Middle East.

Edit: Also the other immigrants that were better welcomed lived in the exact same suburbs.
 
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Fearless said:
I'd give such an arrangement about 5 minutes before the Jew killings would start. Don't pretend otherwise.

“Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud”

London...last Friday.
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No, it's the only way to stop the murder of Palestinians
 
Fearless said:
Nice sentiments, but the rest of the Muslim middle east can't even live with itself, let alone Jews.
When a society is poisoned as per the clip below, it's not hard to appreciate how deeply entrenched jihad is.

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Its not a TV show that murders their families, steals their land and destroys their futures, it's Israel.
 
JustAFan said:
In truth it is silly to point to one side or the other as being to blame. There has been a near constant state of war between Israel and the Palestinians/arabs including the targeting of civilians by both sides. Where we stand now is a result of what both sides have helped create.
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The first Intifada did not happen until 1987, this idea of constant warfare is false, it's the occupation and oppression that has led to the situation today
 
JPRouve said:
You do realize that the article doesn't describe two societies that are facing each others? Now, we do have xenophobes in France, we do have people afraid of africans, asians, eastern europeans and north africans but they are a minority and generally a silent minority. The article is written by an intelligent man but his agenda is obvious and made even more obvious when he writes that the protestants where better welcomed than the algerians, he missed a page of history.

But in general, the rift that he was trying to create only exists in a vacuum. In France we have a class problem between the have and have not, and logically most first and second generation immigrants are among the have not and that's true for everyone whether you are from Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, South America or Middle East.
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So how many Eastern Europeans and South Americans have turned to terrorism?
 
Synco said:
I don't think it is realistic in any way. But even when considering it as a purely hypothetical scenario, it would be about as feasible as reuniting Yugoslavia after the Balkan wars, imo.
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In which case this conflict never ends
 
Mozza said:
The first Intifada did not happen until 1987, this idea of constant warfare is false, it's the occupation and oppression that has led to the situation today
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False? You really think this all began in 1987? So all that fighting, wars, battles, attacks that took place before that don't exist to you or never happened? Congrats on your ignorance of the situation, willful or otherwise.
 
Fearless said:
So how many Eastern Europeans and South Americans have turned to terrorism?
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Why would I count? It won't change the fact that we don't have two societies facing and fearing each other, we have bad eggs in our society, no one can deny that. Also a fair bit of terrorism in France has been done by foreigners or with the influence of foreign organizations, as mentioned in your link the FIS being one of them.
 
JustAFan said:
False? You really think this all began in 1987? So all that fighting, wars, battles, attacks that took place before that don't exist to you or never happened? Congrats on your ignorance of the situation, willful or otherwise.
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'Near constant warfare' - false
 
Mozza said:
Heck even the Intifada isn't an example of warfare, but an act civil disobedience.
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An act of utter stupidity given where you're cause its today. And while we're on the subject of own goals, you can thank Hamas for making any concessions of the West Bank a lot more remote.
 
Fearless said:
An act of utter stupidity given where you're cause its today. And while we're on the subject of own goals, you can thank Hamas for making any concessions of the West Bank a lot more remote.
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The Intifada led to Oslo. The failure of which is down to Israel.

Hamas are not to blame for the lack of concessions about the West Bank. That's comes from the idea of Jewish superiority, Israel can not exist as anything other than a racist state, hence the only offer to the Palestinians is apartheid
 
Mozza said:
The Intifada led to Oslo. The failure of which is down to Israel.

Hamas are not to blame for the lack of concessions about the West Bank. That's comes from the idea of Jewish superiority, Israel can not exist as anything other than a racist state, hence the only offer to the Palestinians is apartheid
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Jewish superiority in terms of historical claims, yes. And in terms of territorial acquisition in a defensive war that was about it's very existence. In terms of apartheid, you need to look elsewhere in the Arab world as to how they are treated.
 
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Fearless said:
Jewish superiority in terms of historical claims, yes. And in terms of territorial acquisition in a defence war that was about it's very existence. In terms of apartheid, you need to look elsewhere in the Arab world as to how they are treated.
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Your home land is Egypt, go live in the embrace of your buddy Sisi. The wars were not defensive. The Arab regimes are largely dictatorships, Israel is, uniquely, an Apartheid regime in the region
 
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