Middle East Politics
- Thread starter Raoul
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The MBS PR campaign continues, here's another predictably tame interview, this one with Jeffrey Goldberg - https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557036/?__twitter_impression=true
Jared already working his magic. 
No worries!
That is true of course, we all have our biases and it is almost impossible to disregard them completely and yet you somehow manage to do so far better than most of us, on topics which tend to be particularly emotive and without any real shades of grey.
Like I said (and I don't mean to pick people out, I'm just using a few examples), it is quite clear after a few posts what the rough backgrounds of posters like Raoul, Fearless, Danny, Kaos etc are (not saying any one of them is right or wrong, just that their outlook on life is clear). You approach things with a much more objective view.
You are a very interesting person! You have a lot of knowledge about Asia Minor and the middle east. You seem to have travelled about quite a bit. Are you a secular muslim or christian? Is that why you are critical of religion and the way it has shaped geopolitics in the region (in a very negative way)? I'd love to travel and interact with people from cultures that I haven't had the chance to interact with before. Gives you a lot of perspective.
I've met quite a few people in various places who are very vain, self centred and lack critical thinking. Unsurprisingly these are the people who are not well travelled and are not interested in other cultures.
He's an Irish fella who's read a book or two thousand
It's true though. I've met some people in India and other places. Dim is not the word to use. Though they are all young people, so forgiven (slightly).
International law sets out the four criteria for statehood:
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
If Israel has really never defined its borders, does this mean that it is not, and has never been, a state?
https://mobile.twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/979017478360662016
They really don't want non-violent protest! Half quoting Quran and Haddith, do the Israeli's really want the Palestinians to follow Al Uthaymeen?
They really don't want non-violent protest! Half quoting Quran and Haddith, do the Israeli's really want the Palestinians to follow Al Uthaymeen?
He talks weird, and all the responses are written in funny characters instead of letters.
2/10 - couldn't understand.
He basically tells the Palestinians that the Quran and Haddith tell muslims not to protest (ignoring the part where protest is OK if you're being oppressed).
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Just like Israel does for its citizens hurt in the conflict
Shirin Ebadi explicitly calling for regime change in Iran:
Iran's Nobel Laureate Is Done With Reform. She Wants Regime Change.
This activist says Iranians want to eliminate the position of supreme leader. The West can help.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...trying-to-reform-iran-she-wants-regime-change
Iran's Nobel Laureate Is Done With Reform. She Wants Regime Change.
This activist says Iranians want to eliminate the position of supreme leader. The West can help.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...trying-to-reform-iran-she-wants-regime-change
Sponsoring self-harm and death proves these are desperate times for the Palestinian jihad of removing Israel. US funds dwindling, the Force Taylor Act, Jerusalem back where it belongs, the Arab States discarding it, other wars stealing it's limelight.
You obviously have a hard time reading, the young man said no one went to the border for the money
Israel is desperate, 6 million Palestinians yet only a 1/3rd have the vote, the apartheid parallel grows more obvious every day. You'll lose international support and the support of the diaspora.
Sorry, which 1/3 have the vote?
$500. Would you get yourself shot for $500? How about $5000?
72 virgins and you've got a deal.
Sorry, nope. You’ve blown it. As anthropologist Scott Atran has said, “every leader of a jihadi group I interviewed told me, namely, that anyone seeking to become a martyr in order to obtain virgins in paradise would be rejected outright.”
Probably because the virgins would find them hideously disfigured.
Might be wrong but I understand Israel does the same thing.
I think Hamas pay compensation as an incentive to encourage acts of violence and win support. The PA do the same.
Israel doesn't knowingly risk the welfare of it's civilians by organising events where violence is foreseeable.
The people of Gaza were warned:
(Tweet trans.)"To the residents of the Gaza Strip: The Hamas leadership is risking your lives. Anyone who approaches the wall is endangering his life. I advise you to continue your normal and natural life and not to engage in provocation." - A. Liberman
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It's nice that Israel has pushed its borders even further inside the wall. I'm still waiting for the internal wall to protect the border one, and then a few more rings.
I have more problems with this actually.
Israel pays and subsidises civilian settlers into newly claimed territory in the West Bank. That is acceptable, but compensating your own citizens when they're shot by another country is not?
I thought Israel had left Gaza? What gives it the right to dictate what the Palestinians do in their own land? Israel is admitting the withdrawal is a sham and Gaza is a prison
It's acceptable according to who? To me? No. I think the settlements give the PA the perfect excuse not to negotiate with Israel.
As I posted above, I think Hamas pays compensation as an incentive to encourage acts of violence and win support. The PA do the same. Hamas are using Gazans as a weapon.
Walking in your own land is an act of violence?
When the world says with remarkable unanimity that the settlements are illegal and a violation of Geneva IV (a war crime), but Israel moves hundreds of thousands of settlers into hostile territory anyway at the expense of the Arab population, it really is like painting a big red target on their backs. It would seem Israel can tolerate a certain level of civilian casualties as an acceptable price of maintaining the occupation and the land grab.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/04/03/israel-gaza-killings-unlawful-calculated
Israel: Gaza Killings Unlawful, Calculated
Officials Green-Light Shooting of Unarmed Demonstrators
Senior Israeli officials who unlawfully called for use of live ammunition against Palestinian demonstrations who posed no imminent threat to life bear responsibility for the killings of 14 demonstrators in Gaza and the injuring of hundreds on March 30, 2018, Human Rights Watch said today.
Israel: Gaza Killings Unlawful, Calculated
Officials Green-Light Shooting of Unarmed Demonstrators
Senior Israeli officials who unlawfully called for use of live ammunition against Palestinian demonstrations who posed no imminent threat to life bear responsibility for the killings of 14 demonstrators in Gaza and the injuring of hundreds on March 30, 2018, Human Rights Watch said today.
No Israeli soldiers even injured, dozens Palestinians killed and hundreds shot. Among the killed are (unarmed) children, and now a clearly marked journalist (with more injured). Israel is surely in no easy position, but it sure as hell hasn't made things any easier on themselves. There exists a world where Israel hadn't turned the international opinion against them and in favour of the Palestinians, but they're clearly not interested in it.
I agree with al-Tamimi on MBS and Israel.
This seems the most reasonable criticism so far, as you acknowledge that the situation is difficult in the first place. My take on all this:
First of all, the Palestinians' actions aren't really "protests", also not primarily aimed at targeting Israeli soldiers, the target is the border fence. Here's what Yahya Sinwar has said about Hamas' aims: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...a-protests-will-continue-until-border-erased/
Second, it's obvious that the present handling of the situation on the Israeli side has lead to actions that can't be justified with protecting the border as such. Either because of the current rules for protecting the border itself, or because of tolerated overstepping of existing rules (probably both). But bar those clear incidents, I also find it far from easy to draw the line conclusively for this situation.
In general, my view is that Hamas has succeeded in putting Israel in a catch-22 position there: If they allow masses of Palestinians to approach the border fence, it will be taken down. This would continue until the Israeli forces stop them. If they want to stop them, it will lead to bloodshed in a highly asymmetric situation. This obviously doesn't justify some of the violence that was reported, but even if that would be prevented, the basic problem would remain.
The result of a no-fire policy would be that thousands of activists were able to approach the border fence (riot dispersal methods can be overcome), and overrun or destroy it where they can. The first victories would lead to a massive morale boost on the Palestinian side, and the result would be further escalation (the designated climax is mid-May, on Nakba Day). Stopping this would need a lot more violence than we've seen so far, and the result of a once-again protected border would be pretty much the current status quo.
I may be misinformed or wrong on some of this, but that's my understanding of the situation so far.
If you're antisemitic but pro-Israel dinners on me