Michael Olise | Joins Bayern

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rozay said:
Unless they are our players, hard to remember. But I remember that many players have 'failed’ medicals in football, only the detail has been fairly useless information that I haven’t carried for years. I think Jerome Boateng recently failed one somewhere, within the last few years.

Ultimately, ‘failed’ is a misleading word anyway. A club can sign anyone they choose, what they want is the information. We signed Rooney injured, just as we signed Mount injured. Our useless medical team detected a potential problem with Rasmus Hojlund, and gave a report that the issue can be avoided with certain actions, so we took the decision to find him. Similarly, I’d expect them to report on potential problems with Olise. They found issue with Varane’s knee during his medical and still decided to sign him, but also took the decision to restructure his salary to a more appearance/bonus based format.

Several transfers have been stopped or postponed due to medical examinations anyway, however, if you want names, perhaps you should google them.
Click to expand...

So you can't remember a single player failing a medical for a hamstring issue but you're absolutely sure the science is there to predict if a hamstring is sound or not.

Could it be that actually a medical can't make such predictions and instead common sense might be used i.e. how many injuries of that type has a player had in the past
 
Rozay said:
You are qualified to say what is and isn’t found during a medical right? You are also qualified to say what is wrong with a player’s hamstring to determine that a player has a higher propensity to hamstring injuries as opposed to simply have had worse luck than another player?
Click to expand...
Why does it never happen then? Why do they always miss players with these problems? Why are they not doing it at a young age and avoiding these players from the start.
 
Marwood said:
So you can't remember a single player failing a medical for a hamstring issue but you're absolutely sure the science is there to predict if a hamstring is sound or not.

Could it be that actually a medical can't make such predictions and instead common sense might be used i.e. how many injuries of that type has a player had in the past
Click to expand...

Whether or not I, Rozay of Redcafe who works in property, can ‘remember’ the outcome of all football medicals is not the barometer for determining their effectiveness.

The common sense approach would be to presume that of a key muscle has a medical defect, a medical examination by sports medical experts will be able to determine this.
 
Hammondo said:
Why does it never happen then? Why do they always miss players with these problems? Why are they not doing it at a young age and avoiding these players from the start.
Click to expand...

Who says it doesn’t though? What do you propose happens at a sports medical? They take a player’s temperature? You also don’t know where the bar is set. Every player sustains injuries. That is obviously not going to stop players from moving.

A player’s body could also change over time too, after a medical. Let’s not pretend to have the science behind elite athlete injuries from our armchairs. I’ve given a couple of examples at United alone in the last couple of years where medicals have revealed issues where we have chosen to still sign, but adjust our approach. I mean, we even went as far as looking at the genetics of De Ligt’s parents. I’m sure it is an extensive process. Clubs around the world spend huge sums on players. Their insurance probably even legally requires a vigorous medical. The fact is, player’s get injured.

On Olise specifically, given he got injured twice this season, are we saying Palace shouldn’t have signed him either then?
 
Rozay said:
Whether or not I, Rozay of Redcafe who works in property, can ‘remember’ the outcome of all football medicals is not the barometer for determining their effectiveness.

The common sense approach would be to presume that of a key muscle has a medical defect, a medical examination by sports medical experts will be able to determine this.
Click to expand...

It's not just you, nobody can recall a medical being failed because it predicted future hamstring issues. Because it doesn't happen.

If a medical could, clubs wouldn't keep signing players with chronic muscle injury problems e.g. Mason Mount.
 
Rozay said:
Whether or not I, Rozay of Redcafe who works in property, can ‘remember’ the outcome of all football medicals is not the barometer for determining their effectiveness.

The common sense approach would be to presume that of a key muscle has a medical defect, a medical examination by sports medical experts will be able to determine this.
Click to expand...

A common sense approach would be to employ inductive logic ie; this player has often had injury issues therefore they will likely continue to have injury issues.
 
Marwood said:
Neither to do with a potentially dodgy hamstring.

The latter was to do with heart problems which is exactly what I'd expect a medical to cover.

That a Google search can only produce two examples, one from a decade ago, should show that a medical is a pretty basic check.

The idea it can predict hamstring fallibility is a bit of nonsense I think.

How does Luke Shaw keep getting contracts if we've got the ability to medically predict his muscle strains?
Click to expand...
Maybe if you actually remember what you posted it’ll help.
 
Marwood said:
It's not just you, nobody can recall a medical being failed because it predicted future hamstring issues. Because it doesn't happen.

If a medical could, clubs wouldn't keep signing players with chronic muscle injury problems e.g. Mason Mount.
Click to expand...

Maybe Mason Mount doesn’t have a ‘chronic hamstring problem’??? Are you a doctor?
 
didz said:
A common sense approach would be to employ inductive logic ie; this player has often had injury issues therefore they will likely continue to have injury issues.
Click to expand...

In which case maybe you, I, or. 4 year old can do a medical. No actual science required.
 
didz said:
Genuine question: would you like me to explain inductive reasoning to you?
Click to expand...

I don’t require any explanations from you ar all. Your ‘inductive reason’ is fine for a builder on Redcafe to use to speculate injuries for United players, however, for highly qualified medical professionals, I expect science to form the basis of any projection.
 
Rozay said:
I don’t require any explanations from you ar all. Your ‘inductive reason’ is fine for a builder on Redcafe to use to speculate injuries for United players, however, for highly qualified medical professionals, I expect science to form the basis of any projection.
Click to expand...

The basis of all of science is inductive reasoning. As fans on a football forum, it's perfectly reasonable to employ said reasoning when discussing possible new recruits, particularly after a season where injuries have been a huge issue, without it being deemed "drama." And that goes doubly when many of the players we signed who start injured, end up injured again. Given that this is a clearly reasonable argument to make, and that you seem unreasonable dismissive of it, I suspect you might not be playing fair.
 
As it will be difficult to sell Antony and Rashford, I would rather buy talented young winger like Roony Bardghji than splashing money on Olise, when we gotta fix other positions too.
 
aeh1991 said:
As it will be difficult to sell Antony and Rashford, I would rather buy talented young winger like Roony Bardghji than splashing money on Olise, when we gotta fix other positions too.
Click to expand...
Wow he looks skilled, very technical.
 
didz said:
The basis of all of science is inductive reasoning. As fans on a football forum, it's perfectly reasonable to employ said reasoning when discussing possible new recruits, particularly after a season where injuries have been a huge issue, without it being deemed "drama." And that goes doubly when many of the players we signed who start injured, end up injured again. Given that this is a clearly reasonable argument to make, and that you seem unreasonable dismissive of it, I suspect you might not be playing fair.
Click to expand...
All good points and I share your concerns.
 
Olise is in the camp with Neto for me at the moment. Both ridiculously good players that can easily play for a top club but those niggling injuries would worry me in terms of splashing 60m+. Think I've mentioned it before but City are the only club that can afford to do that.
 
Brilliant player but I absolutely would avoid, first thing i would look at is injury record given our season and the amount of injuries we get, dont waste the money
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Brilliant player but I absolutely would avoid, first thing i would look at is injury record given our season and the amount of injuries we get, dont waste the money
Click to expand...
Not sure Stevenage could afford him
 
Bubz27 said:
Not sure Stevenage could afford him
Click to expand...
He might be lured by the magnificence of the lamer stadium or the natural wonder of the Fairlands valley or the bright lights of the old town, it’s not always down to money you know.
 


I'm unsure if he's quite the right player but he's a better player than Antony. Not sure we can sign another 60m winger without selling Antony though.
 
JeffFromHK said:
We are gonna by yet another injury prone player, very United thing to do
Click to expand...
From speaking to some Palace fans, the view appears to be his injuries were mismanagement under Roy. Seems to be OK again under Glasner
 
bosnian_red said:


I'm unsure if he's quite the right player but he's a better player than Antony. Not sure we can sign another 60m winger without selling Antony though.
Click to expand...


We’ll be selling Greenwood, Pellestri and one of Sancho or Antony so that will bring in more than Olise’s release clause. With how Sancho is performing it’s realistic we’d get £40 million for him, Greenwood I’d say £30 million then £10 million for Pellestri not to mention around £500K a week off the wage bill.

My mate is a massive Palace fan and said the other week that Olise being injury prone is a massive overreaction to the two hamstring injuries, as @VP89 just said above it seems Olise was badly mismanaged by Hodgson and risked when he shouldn’t have been due to Hodgson being scared of Palace getting relegated.
 
I'm so torn on him. I just have PTSD with his injury troubles, that were just going to have another sat on the treatment table for half the season.
 
His release fee seems to be similar to what Kudus is meant to be.

Im not sure I’d have Olise over Kudus.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Absolutely ridiculous if we go for this lad!

Do we need at least one new winger? Yes.

How's the left wing doing? Well Rashford is a joke and Garnacho is better on the right, and that's our options.

How's the right wing? Relatively stacked with Garnacho playing far better there, and Antony, Amad as backups.

Yep. Better get a new right winger in then!!
Click to expand...

That's a pretty shit stack of players.
 
Another injury prone player is exactly what we need…
 
He is young(22) but with only 11 PL goals in 79 apps he would need to up his goalscoring significantly. We can't have another low scoring wide forward/winger in the team
 
Bwuk said:
His release fee seems to be similar to what Kudus is meant to be.

Im not sure I’d have Olise over Kudus.
Click to expand...
Id sign them both if thats true. Kudos is more like Eze for me.
 
davidmichael said:
We’ll be selling Greenwood, Pellestri and one of Sancho or Antony so that will bring in more than Olise’s release clause. With how Sancho is performing it’s realistic we’d get £40 million for him, Greenwood I’d say £30 million then £10 million for Pellestri not to mention around £500K a week off the wage bill.

My mate is a massive Palace fan and said the other week that Olise being injury prone is a massive overreaction to the two hamstring injuries, as @VP89 just said above it seems Olise was badly mismanaged by Hodgson and risked when he shouldn’t have been due to Hodgson being scared of Palace getting relegated.
Click to expand...

Lets not count chickens, we may struggle to sell any of them. Dortmund arent going to pay forSancho, are the bigger clubs goingto take the risks with Greenwood, will we cut a huge loss onAntony and who would buy him for anykind of big fee and Pellstriprobably doesnt even bring in double figures....they could all be loans.

As for Olise I like him but mismanaged or not he had to have the injury in the first placefor it to reoccur. I personally prefer Eze andwanted us to sign him.....but£50/60m on either when we have Garnaho and maybe Lacey soon braking through aswell as Amad and potential outgoings leavingus really short in defence and midfield...not sure its money well spent....or that either are even the best options at those prices.

Personally I would spend half the amount on Desire Douewho can play either flank next season...before further down the line moving into midfield for us alongside Mainoo... where we can assess where the likesof Lacey, Garnacho and Amad are.

I think Olise is a good player but even with lots of outgoings, dont see us spending over£250m and with our needs....over 20% of it on Olise,is a no, decent signing for me....not a great one though....and we need great ones at that price
 
I‘m not convinced by Olise; seems lightweight to me. Eze is better.

I think we should ditch Rashford and get a new lw who are easier to find. Hudson-Odoi, Savio, Mitoma. On the right we have Amad, Antony and Garnacho can play there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.