Because Carrick isnt as good defensively as Mascherano, he has to develop a more complete game than just sitting deep and starting attacks. I think he will be a quality player but a little more going forwards will be needed in the future.Chapster said:
Michael Carrick
- Thread starter marcus agrippa
- Start date
I think at the moment he is caught between a rock and a hard place...
Carrick is starting to get forward
but you dont' develop into an offensive midfielder over night
it takes time
Carrick is starting to get forward
but you dont' develop into an offensive midfielder over night
it takes time
karan316 said:
You're just making things up now to help with your argument, Jenas was Carricks first choice partner, he wasn't invisible
karan316 said:
I watched few of their games. Carrick and Jenas were in the middle with Davids on the left. Davids drifted inside and did the defensive work.
Give some time to the lad, hopefully he will improve
I think Fergie wants to develop Carrick's game and that isn't going to happen overnight.
Carrick's a tidy player. Obviously paying 18m for the lad meant the expectations were huge.
Its all about the fear that EUFA will bring in rules to make teams play with more home grown players. Same reason Fergie is so keen to get Hargreaves, and probably why we've shy'd away from bringing in more foreign players.
Arse & Chelski are fooked if it happens. The United hierarchy obviously believe it will
Its all about the fear that EUFA will bring in rules to make teams play with more home grown players. Same reason Fergie is so keen to get Hargreaves, and probably why we've shy'd away from bringing in more foreign players.
Arse & Chelski are fooked if it happens. The United hierarchy obviously believe it will
carrick is a very good player and will do well for us, not worth 18 million ATM but hope he will justify the his price in the future
MancFanFromManc said:
i doubt it. under UEFA's rules, Hargreaves wouldn't qualify as 'homegrown'.
MancFanFromManc said:
UEFA Rules
Four Home grown players -> Couple from our own academy plus couple of players from the youth rank of clubs affiliated to the same Football Association.
All four of them may not necessarily be English or British. So both Arsenal and Chelsea wont have problems in picking the squad.
Also Hargreaves dosent qualify as a homegrown player.
[Hellboy]17 said:
You mean we paid £18 million for a player that we ''hope will improve'', for that sort of money he should be the real deal.
Michael Carrick is not ***.
Fergie's wrong (desperate) buy...
Fergie's wrong (desperate) buy...
We paid 14 you cnuts.
ERICSAGOD said:
He'll improve for sure
just hasn't settled into the united formation
Everyone bar a couple of players are struggling with SAFs ever changing formationChapster said:
Mozza said:
Mozza said:
that's true
must be tough for htem at times
especially john o'shea and fletcher
surprise surprise
the two most disliked utd squad members
are also the two that have borne the brunt of SAF's strange formation rotation
o'shea has played everywhere but up front and goalie
fletcher has played practically anywhere in midfield except his preferred central role... and when he does get his CM berth he usually does quite well
Chapster said:
But not well enough
Mozza said:
But still better than Carrick though
ERICSAGOD said:
Id say playing well for Man United isnt as easy as you would think. Look at the world class talent that have come and gone with their tails between their legs.
Cruyf, Veron spring to mind and they both have left to resume their careers shining in other teams since leaving old trafford.
Carrick looks pretty handy to me although I do think we paid over the odds for him.
I say give him a chance all the defensive midfielder nonsense isnt worth discussing.
Mozza said:
i honestly wonder sometimes what the fletcher slaggers expect of him?
He works his ass off
this season he has distributed the ball quite well
he's tracekd back when necessary.
The only criticism I can think of is that he doesn't score many goals from midfield but that's never been his forte
he's not there to get goals
Instant Karma said:But still better than Carrick though
are you seriously suggesting fletcher is better than carrick. Carrick's passing is much more consistent and incisive, and last season he had better carling opta stats for tackling than makelele ffs. given time he's going to do very well
PMcgrathfan said:
Fletcher has been better than Carrick for us this season. If Rooney had scored the goal against Charlton that Fletcher did, most fans on here would still be wanking over it. Fletcher also setup the Giggs winner against Watford. Our best chances against Arsenal - Saha header and Ronaldo strike came from Fletcher crosses. He has been the key to 6 of our points in the league so far, has hardly misplaced a pass this season, tracked back well and put in more tackles than our defensive midfielders - Carrick or Oshea.
His passing may not be as good as Carricks but he is 4 years younger. Given the time and opportunity Fletcher would become as good a player as Carrick, perhaps even better.
Instant Karma said:But still better than Carrick though
Carrick has hit in 4 matches more quality passes then Fletch has managed in 100
LondonRed64 said:
i wouldnt say Veron has been a shining light since he left
golden_blunder said:
He had two very good seasons at Inter Milan and was amongst top three best midfielders in Italy. After his first season he even got selected in Serie A XI for that season.
Mozza said:
Like feck he did.
Carrick is not a bad player but you are in love with him Mozza. If it weren't for Rooney's poor form, Carrick would have been the worst player of our season so far.
How many of Carrick's quality passes resulted in goals?
When it comes to Fletcher, OShea or even Ronaldo, they are judged on end product but the English players on the team are proclaimed good for coming close ?
Ooh...Carrick nearly put Saha through on goal...Rooney's brilliant chip sailed just over the bar....Scholes tests the keeper with a super long range effort.
Fletcher has improved a lot, scored a brilliant goal against Charlton, set up the win against Watford, creates two clear cut chances against Arsenal yet he is rubbish per muppets on here.
SAF and most experts proclaim Ronaldo has been the player of our season so far yet he is selfish with no end product.
secondedInstant Karma said:Like feck he did.
Carrick is not a bad player but you are in love with him Mozza. If it weren't for Rooney's poor form, Carrick would have been the worst player of our season so far.
How many of Carrick's quality passes resulted in goals?
When it comes to Fletcher, OShea or even Ronaldo, they are judged on end product but the English players on the team are proclaimed good for coming close ?
Ooh...Carrick nearly put Saha through on goal...Rooney's brilliant chip sailed just over the bar....Scholes tests the keeper with a super long range effort.
Fletcher has improved a lot, scored a brilliant goal against Charlton, set up the win against Watford, creates two clear cut chances against Arsenal yet he is rubbish per muppets on here.
SAF and most experts proclaim Ronaldo has been the player of our season so far yet he is selfish with no end product.
Oy. Back to your Carrickian temple. Carrick worship is banned hereMozza said:
FFS. Makelele is as poor as Carrick is at tackling. And last season pal IS last season. FFSPMcgrathfan said:
Mozza said:
Bump...
Out of position and still better than Carrick.
Congrats to him.Instant Karma said:
I don't get your point though Instant Karma. It seems like all of your posts are criticising English players, whether it be Rooney, Scholes, Carrick, Neville...
If you don't like people criticising Fletcher and Ronaldo when they don't perform up to scratch, then don't be so hypocritical as to do the same with our English players.
Your blatant dislike of all our English players is no worse than the unfair stick Ronaldo gets. Rooney has been criticised for the last couple of weeks now, so the idea that he's exempt from it is a silly one.
Carrick wasnt up to the mark today. Fletcher was much better.
Im confused with what to think. When he played deep against Watford i thought he was excellent, and then now again Fergie is playing him further up and Scholes deeper. Its just not working, Scholes is just so talented, he can do both, play deep or further up but Carrick so far doesnt look like he has it to play further up. He needs time on the ball, we have to start playing him as a proper defensive midfielder and let Scholes get forward.
Still he wasnt very good today, and his passing which is his greatest asset, wax average. Nothing to worry about, hes still trying to fit in.
Im confused with what to think. When he played deep against Watford i thought he was excellent, and then now again Fergie is playing him further up and Scholes deeper. Its just not working, Scholes is just so talented, he can do both, play deep or further up but Carrick so far doesnt look like he has it to play further up. He needs time on the ball, we have to start playing him as a proper defensive midfielder and let Scholes get forward.
Still he wasnt very good today, and his passing which is his greatest asset, wax average. Nothing to worry about, hes still trying to fit in.
Carrick improved in the second half.
He's started well enough, leave the lad alone.
He's started well enough, leave the lad alone.
Easy V said:
Look at the match ratings thread today ...Rooney gets 6 and 7 inspite of being woeful. If Ronaldo had given the ball away many a time breaking down our attacks, had half a dozen shots sail into Row Z, misplaced several passes and contributed nothing of note, would he have got a 6 or 7 ?
Do you honestly think anyone else other than Rooney would continue being in the side after so many poor displays? Ronaldo would have been benched by Fergie but Wayne's hype and blinkered fan support is unbelievable. He has a poor game gets substitued and yet many fans boo Fergie's decision. Ruud was benched even when he was scoring.
Wayne hasnt scored a goal for England in a competitive game for 2 years but will probably start ahead of Johnson or Bent next weekend. They may not be as talented as Rooney but are definitely in much better form.
Beckham contributed more to England cause than any other player in the World cup yet he is dropped only for Mclaren to prove his point. Would he have the guts to drop Rooney ? I doubt it.
I wont lie, Rooney has been absolutely rubbish these 3 or 4 premiership games. I mean really shit, not just by his, by anyones standards. Whatever hes tried, hes failed at miserably. But it is only 4 games, Henry was the same in the first few games of the season, i couldnt believe who i was watching. Then the injury helped him, he got his rest and has come back in style.
IMO it will help Wayne and united if we rest/drop him. Its just all going wrong for him right now. I'l agree with Wayne on this one, Rooneys reputation is really saving him right now, if this was Ronaldo he would be getting so much critisism.
IMO it will help Wayne and united if we rest/drop him. Its just all going wrong for him right now. I'l agree with Wayne on this one, Rooneys reputation is really saving him right now, if this was Ronaldo he would be getting so much critisism.
amolbhatia100 said:
Scholes hasnt got the legs to make those forward runs anymore and then get back to defend again. He didnt need to worry about tracking back too much when Keano was there. Keane carried Scholes more than Makelele does Lampard.
If we had a decent left winger I think a Giggs - Carrick midfield might be better than a Carrick-Scholes. Giggs has the pace, will get forward and can also tackle. He will definitely score more and Carrick can sit back and do what he does best - spray the ball around. We wont get that many goals from Scholes or Carrick and thats where I think we will lose. At the end of the season, our CM must contribute 12 goals atleast if we are going to be serious contenders. We cant leave everything to the strikers and Ronaldo.
To be fair, its good to see Carrick making those runs and then get back to defend. If he can get a little bit of his 'legendary' passing going, he'll do well.
Rooney wasn't woeful today at all, did you even watch the game? His performance against Benfica was a shambles - as were all the others since he came back from suspension - but today he was much improved. He actually looked interested, something he's been missing for a few weeks now.Instant Karma said:
The point still stands. You are over-criticising our English players just to even up the criticism Ronaldo gets? It's even more pathetic and childish than the initial Ronaldo hate. If you don't like people criticising our players, you've certainly got a funny way of showing it.
Now, before you attack me, i'm not one of the Ronaldo haters, nor do I give Fletcher stick. But what I will say, is that Ronaldo gets criticised for wasting the talent he has, not for his lack of form: like Rooney now.
Rooney has played about 5 games in the last 4 months after being rushed back from an injury. He's showing the result of poor conditioning and obvious frustration. This can easily be changed with a few more games under his belt.
He'll still get criticised for under-performing(rightly so btw), but people are willing to give him more than 4-5 matches. You aren't.
Ronaldo on the other hand does not get all his criticism for a simple lack of form, he gets criticised because people know just how good he can be. His crossing can be wonderful, and the way he curls them with the outside of his boot is fantastic. So when he gets to the touchline, with 2-3 players waiting in the box, and he tries to hit it behind his standing leg - thus wasting the chance - it frustrates people.
He's scored goals from 30-35 yards out for United and Portugal, so we all know he has the ability and an eye for goal, so when he keeps hitting them with that freaky technique and dragging them wide or yards over the bar, it is again frustrating.
He can beat men for fun, but again wastes this talent when he does too many step-overs and slows down our break-away attacks.
People get annoyed with him because they recognise what he can do, so when he constantly wastes this ability with needless party tricks, he gets stick for it.
That isn't the same as the situation with Rooney, or any of our other players. When Rooney is playing like shit, it's because he's ... playing shit. His touch lets him down, he looks lethargic.
When Ronaldo doesn't perform well, it's usually(not always) due to him trying too much and being selfish. These are personal choices, not just a lack of form. People slate him because hey know he could/should be a much better player than he shows.
As for your argument of Fergie or McClaren still playing him, I again don't understand what the hell you are talking about. What does that have to do with you? Why over-criticise him just because his managers are willing to look past 4-5 poor performances?
That bit really made no sense.
He's also been one of England's top performers in that time. His game does not revolve around goals, so if you bother to watch the matches, you'll see him still performing well despite not scoring. Or do you just check the scoresheet at the end of the game and decide to criticise him?
Ronaldo, in his last few seasons has been a waste of space for just about every game before Christmas. This is the first time he's performed consistantly up to his top level before winter since the day he arrived. Yet Fergie still stands by him and plays him every week. We even allowed him to leave for a 2 week holiday every year to help him gain his form. How many of our other players would get that kind of treatment?
Right now, Rooney is performing poorly. If you want to be fair and unbiased, then either criticise Ronaldo when he performs poorly, or stand by Rooney when he is struggling. You can't say that other people criticise Ronaldo and defend Rooney, only to then go and defend Ronaldo and criticise Rooney. It shows no logic at all. You're doing just the same.
Instant Karma said:
Beckham was not good at the WC. The only players that looked decent for England were J Cole and Rio. There is too much hype around Rooney but you will always get that as long as the English media have their say. Give him another 2-3 games and he will be great again.
Instant Karma said:
For all of one game, well done him