Sarni said:
Exactomundo
Michael Carrick
- Thread starter marcus agrippa
- Start date
Exactomundo
RedRichio said:
Deja vu with Evra's case, he was written off after one performance too.
How would you feel if world class player came to United and left after first game because he felt that support at Old Trafford isn't satisfying for him?
It's kind of the same situation.
the divided posts on this thread suggest it is to early to say whether he will be a success, for 18 million it should be a given but fergies recent transfer history is poor.
steerterry50 said:
Is it really?
Out of transfers we've made since Summer 2003, I can't see any bad buys. Saha, Heinze, Smith, Rooney, Park, Foster, van der Sar, Vidic have all proven themselves good players, jury's still out on Evra but he's improved a lot, Kuszczak can't fail either in my humble opinion.
Fergie hasn't brought players he should've brought, but the ones he has signed recently are all good players. There's a difference between transfer history, abilities of players signed and not filling voids in certain areas of the pitch.
Sarni said:
don't bother.
Fergie's ineptitude on the transfer front is one of those Caf myths that will never be disproved by common sense and cold fact.
Sarni said:
I think the original poster was referring to some of our more less successful purchases in recent seasons such as Forlan, Miller, Djemba x2,Veron,Bellion etc.
Like any top manager, you have to take the rough with the smooth.
redjoe said:
He's changed policy since infamous 2003 flop, what's the point of judging players he had brought before 2004 then?
They are past. None of them are with us anymore. Presence is what happened recently, e.g. in the last three years.
TBH im not sure Alan Smith and Park have proven to be good signings yet. Vidic and Evra will probably will.
Sarni said:
Are you saying we had a policy of deliberately buying bad players pre 2004.
What's this new policy you refer too.We are still not filling certain positions that need filled, still paying over the odds for players, buying players we don't need- how many keepers have we on our books now, and still buying average players.These problems affect every manager, not just ours, the perils of the job.
Transfers are risky, we've had some great buys and some not so great buys and we'll continue in that vein.No manager is 100% successful in that regard.
DevilsOwn said:
beofre slagging SAF for his transfer shortcomings lets accept that united today cant buy anyone they wanted.. money is all not there.. our reputation in europe is not all that good..
in such a situation.. SAF has beeen able to buy some good players.. adn esp in the last few years (as shown by Sarni above).. he has only bought good players who have fit our system..
we are not wasteful in the market.. and new players who are coming are adding to us..
given this.. i really am looking forward to carrick doing well... he was pretty good against Benfica today
in such a situation.. SAF has beeen able to buy some good players.. adn esp in the last few years (as shown by Sarni above).. he has only bought good players who have fit our system..
we are not wasteful in the market.. and new players who are coming are adding to us..
given this.. i really am looking forward to carrick doing well... he was pretty good against Benfica today
steerterry50 said:
Not really.
steerterry50 said:
Evra
Vidic
Park
Van Der Sar
Heinze
Rooney
Cretin.
DevilsOwn said:
We never have!! if your talking about Europe's elite. Yes we are wasteful in the market because we keep leaving gaps in positions that need filling i.e. a defensive midfielder. Any player bought buy a club will add something new to the club thats the whole point of buying them.. Carrick will be a usefull addiction to this squad but is he really what we needed if you had the choice of buying one outfield player???
Carrick will be a very good signing for us he justs needs time to settle it.
it's not rocket science, yet a lot of people cant understand thatlorcanjc said:
lorcanjc said:
He is getting his time now.
The sooner he settles the better for the team.
I am confident Carrick will prove his worth, its very early to judge either way but i would expect our fans to get behind our players not slate them because they are not quite what they want.
Fergies record after 2003
2006/2007
Ins
Carrick 18.6M
Spent: £18.6M
Outs
Ebanks
Blake
Fortune
Ruud(undisc)
Steele
McShane
Liam Miller
Saved: Only £200000 for Ebanks as the rest were released for free
Van Nistelrooy's fee stil remains undisclosed.
Loaned In
Pole
2005/2006
Ins
VDS(undisc)
Park £4M
Foster £1M
Vidic £7M
Evra £5.5M
Total spent £ 17.5M
Outs
Keano – free
P.Neville – £3.5M
Kleberson- £2.5M
Spector £0.5M
Saved £6.5M
Bellion released for free after buying him for £3M
2004/2005
Ins
Rooney £ 29M
N'Galula (undisc)
Smith £7M
Heinze £ 6.9M
Liam Miller free
Spent: £46M(approx)
Outs
Forlan (undisclosed) around £3M
Djemba £ 1.35M
Butt £ 2.5M
Carrol and Ricardo released for free.
Saved £6.5M (approx)
2003/2004
Ins
Bellion £3M
DX2 £3.5M
Howard £2.3M
Kleberson £5.93M
Ronaldo £12.3M
Saha £ 12.8M
Spent £42M (approx)
Outs
2003/2004
Beckham £25M
Veron £15M
Saved £40M
It neither looks brilliant nor dim
2006/2007
Ins
Carrick 18.6M
Spent: £18.6M
Outs
Ebanks
Blake
Fortune
Ruud(undisc)
Steele
McShane
Liam Miller
Saved: Only £200000 for Ebanks as the rest were released for free
Van Nistelrooy's fee stil remains undisclosed.
Loaned In
Pole
2005/2006
Ins
VDS(undisc)
Park £4M
Foster £1M
Vidic £7M
Evra £5.5M
Total spent £ 17.5M
Outs
Keano – free
P.Neville – £3.5M
Kleberson- £2.5M
Spector £0.5M
Saved £6.5M
Bellion released for free after buying him for £3M
2004/2005
Ins
Rooney £ 29M
N'Galula (undisc)
Smith £7M
Heinze £ 6.9M
Liam Miller free
Spent: £46M(approx)
Outs
Forlan (undisclosed) around £3M
Djemba £ 1.35M
Butt £ 2.5M
Carrol and Ricardo released for free.
Saved £6.5M (approx)
2003/2004
Ins
Bellion £3M
DX2 £3.5M
Howard £2.3M
Kleberson £5.93M
Ronaldo £12.3M
Saha £ 12.8M
Spent £42M (approx)
Outs
2003/2004
Beckham £25M
Veron £15M
Saved £40M
It neither looks brilliant nor dim
Its an alright record. 2003/4 is particularly terrible. The record on the midfielders since then is poor.
amolbhatia100 said:
It is too early to judge - we've had loads of quality players who've taken ages to bed in - Bruce, Pally, Cole... But anyone who thinks he's not been fecking shite and a waste of money SO FAR needs to get glasses. Or new ones.
He is an adventurous and creative player with an excellent passing range and vision. He will do well here, don't give a shit personally what he cost.
The thing he will have to do is understand that he has to be a lot more mobile at Manchester United unlike at Spurs where he had a fixed position so he'll have to learn to adapt.
He hasn't been at his best, but i think his understanding in terms of awareness of his teammates is improving every game.
I think partly i'm waiting to see how well he plays not just alongside Scholes, but Rooney as well. Hopefully Wayne picks up his form quickly because in terms of vision, passing and movement i think Scholes, Rooney and Carrick can offer a lot of potency in attack down the centre and hopefully Giggsy returns to his form and with Ronaldo is inspiring form i think if we can shore up the defense like we are starting to do.
In attack, we'll have hopefully Rooney, Saha, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholesy and Giggs in a 4-4-2 and with a solid and confidence defense behind them i think the issue of us not having "steel" in the middle of the park we can still beat teams like we did in the first 5 games.
The thing he will have to do is understand that he has to be a lot more mobile at Manchester United unlike at Spurs where he had a fixed position so he'll have to learn to adapt.
He hasn't been at his best, but i think his understanding in terms of awareness of his teammates is improving every game.
I think partly i'm waiting to see how well he plays not just alongside Scholes, but Rooney as well. Hopefully Wayne picks up his form quickly because in terms of vision, passing and movement i think Scholes, Rooney and Carrick can offer a lot of potency in attack down the centre and hopefully Giggsy returns to his form and with Ronaldo is inspiring form i think if we can shore up the defense like we are starting to do.
In attack, we'll have hopefully Rooney, Saha, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholesy and Giggs in a 4-4-2 and with a solid and confidence defense behind them i think the issue of us not having "steel" in the middle of the park we can still beat teams like we did in the first 5 games.
Wonder Pigeon said:
I think carrick has done quite well for his first few matches...I don't think he was our first-choice target this summer and I think his fee was at least 4mil more than we should have paid, but give him at least a season, maybe two before calling him a flop. He hasn't had it easy because the team and formations have constantly changed, and he has had to play in a midfield comprising some or all of O Shea, Fletcher and Richardson...I think with a top quality DM, and another winger to really rival giggs and ronaldo, we will have a midfield close to our 1999, 2000 basically before Veron came and started the rot....However he is a different type of player to a Scholes Or a Keane, and whoever comes in will have to be the right kind of player to compliment him.
Wolverine said:
Surely you mean 4, we lost to Arsenal in the 5th game, and drew with the mighty Reading in the 6th game!
vijay said:
Spector moved for 500k this summer, we only sent him on loan last season
ERICSAGOD said:Surely you mean 4, we lost to Arsenal in the 5th game, and drew with the mighty Reading in the 6th game!
There was the Celtic game as well.
Billy Bollocks said:
Once someone comes in to take more of the defensive duties he'll be released further up the field where his passing can be more dangerous. Someone with his passing ability should have the play channeled through him.
I'd like to bet that the same people who are complaining that Carrick isn't a different player and/or we paid too much for him would be frothing at the mouth if we had refused to sign him because of the fee.
When you talk about what kind of player he needs next to him, I think you only need to look at who Spurs paired him with last season when he excelled, and that was Edgar Davids
unfortunately, we dont currently have an Edgar Davids and look nowhere close to getting one
the thing with Carrick is that early impressions are that he is not defensively sound enough to not need a holding midfielder next to him, and doesnt get forward enough to play without an offensive midfielder next to him. so you either partner him with a true box-to-box, or play him in a 3 man midfield.
I only hope that he begins to really develop those parts of his game that are lacking like shooting and tackling
unfortunately, we dont currently have an Edgar Davids and look nowhere close to getting one
the thing with Carrick is that early impressions are that he is not defensively sound enough to not need a holding midfielder next to him, and doesnt get forward enough to play without an offensive midfielder next to him. so you either partner him with a true box-to-box, or play him in a 3 man midfield.
I only hope that he begins to really develop those parts of his game that are lacking like shooting and tackling
cesc's_mullet said:
he was pushed furhter up vs Benfica and looked uncomfortable. it seems like he prefers playing deeper where he gets more time on the ball and can look up and make his passes.
I do think he will need to work on his work going forward. At a club like United where the emphasis is to attack, he does need to contribute.
the further he got forward, the more 'mired in quicksand' he looked. his seemed more labored because you don't have the same time and space closer to goal that you do sitting deeper pinging it around.
karan316 said:
He played with Jenas
No Carrick and Davids were playing center mid most games with Lennon on the right. Jenas was usually in the team too but he wasnt really doing anything most of the time.
LOL, that's how to generate extra cash. Get people to go 'double barrelled', then sell them as two different players..vijay said:
karan316 said:
Wrong, Jenas played in central midfield with Carrick, Davids or Mido or anyone but Andy Ried played on the left wing, becuase he's fat and shite.
amolbhatia100 said:
Well if that's the case I wonder what all the fuss was with mascherano, who essentially sits in front of the defence and doesn't get overly involved in the attackk...? Tabata?
Mozza said:
They didnt really play a left sided midfielder all of last season
Davids and Carrick played in the middle and Jenas was invisible