Metro: Harry Maguire feeling strain of Manchester United captaincy

Maguire doesn’t seem like a natural leader.
 
devilish said:
I don't agree with the 'historically atrocious' argument however some context is necessary here. Ole played with 6 defensive minded players + two FBs who can hardly be described as attacking minded. That's a huge defensive unit. This year Maguire's lack of pace is being targeted which is why he's looking so bad. It doesn't help that Ole loves to play players to the ground which means that Maguire had been thrown in the deep end without barely any match fitness whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I’m not arguing a point that he is quick or even an amazing player but the notion he is the problem is a fallacy.

Just taking some data reference points of sufficient sampling size we see that over the 122 games that preceded Mid October we conceded an average of 1.01 goals per match with Maguire in the team. Without him we conceded 1.4. That’s 40% more. If we extract the two games at the start of last season after having no preseason, as on the graph they represent significant statistical anomalies, the number with Maguire drops to 0.92 from a sample size of 101 games played.

Vis a vis the amount of defensive minded personnel playing in recent matches, I refer back to the hypothesis that it isn’t personnel that is the problem but the lack of an organised structure. Something that anecdotal observation endorses.
 
simonhch said:
Agreed. I’m not arguing a point that he is quick or even an amazing player but the notion he is the problem is a fallacy.

Just taking some data reference points of sufficient sampling size we see that over the 122 games that preceded Mid October we conceded an average of 1.01 goals per match with Maguire in the team. Without him we conceded 1.4. That’s 40% more. If we extract the two games at the start of last season after having no preseason, as on the graph they represent significant statistical anomalies, the number with Maguire drops to 0.92 from a sample size of 101 games played.

Vis a vis the amount of defensive minded personnel playing in recent matches, I refer back to the hypothesis that it isn’t personnel that is the problem but the lack of an organised structure. Something that anecdotal observation endorses.
Click to expand...

Our tactics, the fact that we don't play with a sweeper GK, the manager's reluctance to give some time off to Maguire to get much needed match fitness and the fact that this team lack a decent DM certainly are certainly an issue. However Maguire's lack of pace and his questionable positioning is a problem as well. I have been blessed in watching some of the finest CBs in football history play from Baresi to Maldini right to the likes of Rio, Stam and Vidic. A CB can be the complete package (experienced, WC, a leader etc) but if he can't keep up then he's fried. The best example of it all was watching an ancient Baresi trying to keep up with a young Vieri. Milan lost 6-1 at home against Juventus.

Whoever sanctioned Maguire's deal when he was perfectly aware that he'll be playing in a high line with DDG behind him, Lindelof at his side and an ageing Matic or two B2B in front of him should be fired. That's an 80m mistake which 100m worth of investment hasn't yet come even near of sorting.
 
Last edited:
simonhch said:
All of them, because you fail to contextualise the data. Which isn’t surprising as your posts are grounded in hysterical hyperbole.
Click to expand...
Our world record signing center back has been one of the worst in the entire division this season. Take that hysterical hyperbole and smoke on it.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
That's fair enough, but I still don't get what having money has to do with respect?
Click to expand...
Money serves as a symbol to represent the overcoming of struggle and attainment of prosperity. For a young footballer in Brazil, Neymar the global superstar with his wealth and celebrity will command respect or at least the appearance of it.

You've never encountered a situation where someone with money or the appearance of it is treated differently or given more respect than someone who looks like they aren't wealthy? Plenty of stories about store workers asking customers to leave because they 'looked' like they couldn't afford the item. I'm not saying it's a positive thing just a feature of human society.
 
I might be making this up but wasn’t it Carragher who was given captaincy for a short while at Liverpool and said he couldn’t handle it and it affected his performances so he gave it up and Hyypia took over ?

I genuinely believe Maguire would be better off swallowing his pride and handing captaincy to Ronaldo and it might just take a bit of pressure of him even if mentally, he should have never been given it in the first place, terrible decision by Ole at the time, I get there wasn’t much grade a candidates but Maguire after only being here a few months and not fully understanding the club yet was not the one
 
While he is definitely going through his worst period at the club...he looks unfit tbh...he is also capable of playing brilliantly well with the right players around him - form being temporary and all that. This season-

- Shaw has been poor
- Varane is a new partner which would have needed time to bed in but he has been iffy and start stop With injuries
- his midfield two have vanished when it counted and even when they are playing somewhat well out of possession, I have never seen two midfielders hide so much when trying to play out from the back
- Lindelof and Wan Bissaka are also very very poor at playing out and if you watch back some of the issues Harry gets himself into its because the ball works it’s way back accross the back four to him from those two instead of being played forward.
- finally, some excellent analysis from Stratford Paddock about DeGea’s limitations playing out from the back (video below at 6:45)

I don’t think he should be captain of the club and never did. I do think he is a solid CB who is being asked to play out from the back with players and a set up all around him that are just not capable...this means that instead of goal kicks etc. being a time of calm and a chance to start an attack and retain possession...we immediately put pressure and stress on the back four...i think as fans we have become numb and used to the fact that goal kicks are a real risk for us. I would hate to be a defender at Utd these days...over 90 minutes...something’s gonna give...
 
Desert Eagle said:
Money serves as a symbol to represent the overcoming of struggle and attainment of prosperity. For a young footballer in Brazil, Neymar the global superstar with his wealth and celebrity will command respect or at least the appearance of it.

You've never encountered a situation where someone with money or the appearance of it is treated differently or given more respect than someone who looks like they aren't wealthy? Plenty of stories about store workers asking customers to leave because they 'looked' like they couldn't afford the item. I'm not saying it's a positive thing just a feature of human society.
Click to expand...
Treated differently, yes, respected, no I cant say I have.
 
acnumber9 said:
The story could be bollocks but it kind of looks like it’s true on the pitch. From the outside looking in there is absolutely nothing about him that screams leader. Imagine turning to his gormless face for direction or inspiration.
Click to expand...
It's a very easy story to write/make-up; almost bullying and picking on low-hanging fruit, if they're just throwing it out there for shits and giggles.

Maguire doesn't have 'it' when it comes to that almost delusional level of self-confidence inferior players who captain infinitely better ones well, have. There's nothing about his on-pitch conduct that screams captain or even leader. There's been plenty of players in Maguire's predicament throughout history, who weren't the best player in their side, or even close to being, but captained their sides like heroes, where they differ from Maguire is that they mostly had absolute belief in themselves and their game and wouldn't waiver in the face of adversity - players that could always make an account of themselves that was rarely scrutinised; Maguire, by contrast, looks overwhelmed and is struggling to perform his basic duties, let alone tell better players what they should or shouldn't be doing.

What's unfair on Maguire, however, is that he isn't fit, imo, and he's mentally struggling. Fergie would've had him whisked away for 2 weeks to get his head clear and try and recover, not just drag him over coals time and again and shatter the last embers of confidence he has remaining. Man-management is crucial at times like these, I feel; Maguire is better than he's showing, but has no time or chance to get his head on straight here.
 
Fortitude said:
It's a very easy story to write/make-up; almost bullying and picking on low-hanging fruit, if they're just throwing it out there for shits and giggles.

Maguire doesn't have 'it' when it comes to that almost delusional level of self-confidence inferior players who captain infinitely better ones well, have. There's nothing about his on-pitch conduct that screams captain or even leader. There's been plenty of players in Maguire's predicament throughout history, who weren't the best player in their side, or even close to being, but captained their sides like heroes, where they differ from Maguire is that they mostly had absolute belief in themselves and their game and wouldn't waiver in the face of adversity - players that could always make an account of themselves that was rarely scrutinised; Maguire, by contrast, looks overwhelmed and is struggling to perform his basic duties, let alone tell better players what they should or shouldn't be doing.

What's unfair on Maguire, however, is that he isn't fit, imo, and he's mentally struggling. Fergie would've had him whisked away for 2 weeks to get his head clear and try and recover, not just drag him over coals time and again and shatter the last embers of confidence he has remaining. Man-management is crucial at times like these, I feel; Maguire is better than he's showing, but has no time or chance to get his head on straight here.
Click to expand...
Would never have been made captain under SAF in my opinion. I do agree with the taking him out of the limelight angle. Unfortunately people rave about Ole's man management of players, whereas I think the opposite, i think his use of the squad is poor.
 
captaincantona said:
While he is definitely going through his worst period at the club...he looks unfit tbh...he is also capable of playing brilliantly well with the right players around him - form being temporary and all that. This season-

- Shaw has been poor
- Varane is a new partner which would have needed time to bed in but he has been iffy and start stop With injuries
- his midfield two have vanished when it counted and even when they are playing somewhat well out of possession, I have never seen two midfielders hide so much when trying to play out from the back
- Lindelof and Wan Bissaka are also very very poor at playing out and if you watch back some of the issues Harry gets himself into its because the ball works it’s way back accross the back four to him from those two instead of being played forward.
- finally, some excellent analysis from Stratford Paddock about DeGea’s limitations playing out from the back (video below at 6:45)

I don’t think he should be captain of the club and never did. I do think he is a solid CB who is being asked to play out from the back with players and a set up all around him that are just not capable...this means that instead of goal kicks etc. being a time of calm and a chance to start an attack and retain possession...we immediately put pressure and stress on the back four...i think as fans we have become numb and used to the fact that goal kicks are a real risk for us. I would hate to be a defender at Utd these days...over 90 minutes...something’s gonna give...
Click to expand...

All on Ole. He bought some and picks them all. If he cant see the problem, or see it and doesnt change it, then were fecked whilst he is in charge.
 
I think his current problems are down to fitness so I'm not sure about the captaincy thing.

Although I never really thought he was captain material in the first place.
 
Fortitude said:
It's a very easy story to write/make-up; almost bullying and picking on low-hanging fruit, if they're just throwing it out there for shits and giggles.

Maguire doesn't have 'it' when it comes to that almost delusional level of self-confidence inferior players who captain infinitely better ones well, have. There's nothing about his on-pitch conduct that screams captain or even leader. There's been plenty of players in Maguire's predicament throughout history, who weren't the best player in their side, or even close to being, but captained their sides like heroes, where they differ from Maguire is that they mostly had absolute belief in themselves and their game and wouldn't waiver in the face of adversity - players that could always make an account of themselves that was rarely scrutinised; Maguire, by contrast, looks overwhelmed and is struggling to perform his basic duties, let alone tell better players what they should or shouldn't be doing.

What's unfair on Maguire, however, is that he isn't fit, imo, and he's mentally struggling. Fergie would've had him whisked away for 2 weeks to get his head clear and try and recover, not just drag him over coals time and again and shatter the last embers of confidence he has remaining. Man-management is crucial at times like these, I feel; Maguire is better than he's showing, but has no time or chance to get his head on straight here.
Click to expand...
I only wish other members of the squad were afforded the same excuses as Maguire has been.

His form before his few weeks off wasn’t particularly much better but let’s say he isn’t fit. He starts last season crap, let’s excuse him because he got himself arrested. He’s at fault for multiple goals after ‘Project Restart’, let’s forget those altogether. . .

The unwavering support for an overpriced player that has performed mediocrely is actually nice to see but it’s be good to see the same for other players. ‘almost bullying and picking on low-hanging fruit’, is one of the funniest takes given how other squad members are referred to.

He’s simply not the player many had hoped for, his weaknesses are becoming more exposed & his leadership beyond arranging team dinners isn’t visible on the pitch. It’s actually rather fitting that he is this iteration of United’s captain having been promoted to the position with no actual credentials.

I don’t disagree that criticising him currently is low hanging fruit particularly, but it’s be nice if everyone got the same energy. Maguire has been terrible, that in itself isn’t critiques it’s fact.
 
Red_toad said:
I’m sure he’d have been superb for City and had no issues collecting honours.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Pep was never particularly bothered and was happy to sit back and grime while we wasted £70 million on the lump. At most he'd be a back-up by now plus the words 'Maguire' and 'superb' should never be used together in the same sentence.

But anyway...My Captain!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.