Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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More crap from you, you seem to specialise in it. Pele is sitting on every single table of the greatest ever. Such disrespectful rubbish and ignorance of the history of football. Educate yourself. Also Ronaldo was not faster than Pele.
Where do you come up with this shite? In the same paragraph as telling someone else to do their research no less!
They are dead now in terms of being the best player of the world, why are we still going on and on 
Hyperbole in stating that the level was so weak, I should have put that in parenthesis I figured people would get it, my bad
Ronaldo and Messi are far better then Pele, Maradona was better then Pele and FaT Ronaldo is better then Pele. I have Pele number 5 in my all time list. Like I said look at the score lines in the games pele played. They looked like rec center scorelines.
However when talking about GOAT Ronaldo,Messi, and Maradona are the only ones in that conversation..
Prime Ronaldo? Was not faster then Pele? The guy who literally trained with Usain Bolt for speed. Ok.
Can we all just agree that they are BOTH amazing and then have a big group hug?
yes!! I think this will only happen once they retire!I doubt.
People used to fight like anything for Pele vs Maradona, and Messi vs Ronaldo is like ten times bigger rivalry than that.Funny how we don't hear this when Messi was still playing well a few years ago
Clearly now people can see Ronaldo is the better player… Ronaldo is an absolute beast! Comes back to the best league in the world at 36, messi is struggling in the French league alongside other world class players. People always said though messi will struggle when he leaves Barcelona but I think that was meant for if he went to the prem he’d struggle, no one thought he’d struggle in the French league. Ronaldo would score 30+ goals in that league. Ronaldo has conquered Portugal, England, Spain and Italy. Messi best years was at Barca but when they had the likes of xavi and iniesta. Can’t see messi ever joining the premier league now and showing everyone what he can do in the best league in the world… Ronaldo is the number 1 GOAT.
Your takes on Pele are so direspectful.
You don't need to completely put down Pele to prop up Ronaldo.
That is the only argument that i recognize that the game was harder, it was indeed full of "vinnie Jones" thus would be very hard in that sense, but as far the game itself , it evolved so much. I have zero doubts that a fit Robben would be the best player of 80s or the very least top 3. Not even bring Ronaldo and Messi to the converstation, i think is preposterous, to compare them to old players in any sense.
Could do the same for strikers, a Lewa, Ibra, Suarez, Benzema, they would be the best strikers in the 80s minus maybe Van Basten and is a big maybe,
-- Imagine thinking Messi as a GOAT level playmaker+dribbler+goal scorer is replaceable while elite goal scorer Ronaldo is not..
-- Imagine thinking Ronaldo is a GOAT level dribbler & passer
-- Imagine thinking the least creative and most technically deficient player in the GOAT conversation is more complete than any other player in the same conversation
-- Imagine calling Ronaldo a more complete player than Pele
-- Imagine calling Copa mickey mouse tourney with EC winners Portugal & Ronaldo having become perennial losers against Americans, losing to the great USA in WC 2014 (could not even go beyond the group stage behind the US), to Uruguay in 2018 WC (knocked out in 2nd round) and to Chile in 2017 (knocked out in semis)
-- Imagine calling the Portugal team that beat France in France (while Ronaldo was cheerleading) a bad team..
-- Imagine calling a EC tourney path with Poland, Austria, Hungary, Wales, Iceland a super challenging one while calling the COPA with Colombia, Uruguay, Chile and Brazil a mickey
mouse tourney
-- Imagine calling Portugal’s loss against amazing Greece twice including EC final in Lisbon with Figo & Rui Costa in front of Portuguese fans a success
-- Imagine a GOAT with zero international MVP award
-- Imagine disqualifying Messi as a GOAT contender (5 times MVP winner in international tournaments including WC 2014) for quitting Argentina
-- Imagine a mentality monster ghosting in CL finals, WCs (even this season against Middlesborough in FA Cup & in the most important game of the season for United in PL vs Liverpool) and quitting after the worst season in 10 years with Juve before the contract end in the last minute
-- Imagine the level of desperation of a player trying to self-market himself as the GOAT multiple times while the majority of the football world disagrees and his fans seeing this as a reflection of his elite mentality..
Are you by any chance from Portugal?
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I put Messi above pele by miles as well. Overrated when it comes to GOAT debate. First known superstar and obviously important to the history of the sport but better then Ronaldo Messi or Maradona? No shot.
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Your looking desperate now, saying Ronaldo “quit” Juve because your embarrassed Messi quit on his country. Like I said someone who quit on their country can not be considered goat. Someone who loses not one, not two, but MULTIPLE aggregate leads in CL…..mentally weak player can’t be the goat. Back to back 3-0 leads and ends up losing the tie. Show me one time Ronaldo did that? I’ll help you out…none.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 3 peat CL Messi has never come close to that.
- Is Argentina or Brazil in the final of the copa 9x out of 10? If the answer is yes please don’t even bother replying. Can’t take a tournament like that seriously.
- How many finals did Portugal play in before Ronaldo? Oh zero? How many wins? Oh zero? So with Ronaldo they have won 2? Oh ok ya don’t even bother mentioning internationals again. Who has the most international goals? Who has had far better international teams under his name (Messi) and has more losses? I know the answer do you?
- Ronaldo is technically deficient?
Buddy your really struggling in this debate now your pulling on straws now- Ronaldo isn’t creative you say? Let’s laugh together at this stat then. Ronaldo leads the champions league In not just goals….he leads in assists as well….more then ….Messi
awkward.-Ronaldo won a Balon d or in 2 different leagues, golden boot in 2 different leagues, league champions in 3 different leagues. Won a champions league in 2 different teams with different players and coaches Went to Juve at 33 and won 2 more league titles In yet another league and Scored over 100 goals for Juve in record pace with guys like Adrian rabiot, bentancur, and Ramsey behind him. Then he goes to United at 37! And is second top goal scorer in England while also scoring more goals in ONE game then Messi has in his whole ligue 1 season.
- Messi first experience in a new league and new team and he chose the easiest of the top 5 leagues (Portugal is right by France multiple times so top 5-6 league) and the superpower team in that league and still struggles. His only CL wins came with the spine of the greatest national team of all time who won a 3 peat internationally without a striker.
Buddy I just took your straw man debate apart…Again. Like I said before murder with words, goodnight.
How much you earn for being in his PR team? I might join as well.
Beautiful. He just does not have the elite mentality to be the GOAT.And Messi's "unique ability" looked more unique sitting on top like a cherry on a cake at Barcelona. A team arguably until Pep and City looked like a unique team in it self - called widely to be the best football team of all time by many many a people.
His Argentina performances were great but no where near as jaw dropping to the things he produced in Spain. Literally as soon as Xavi and Iniesta left - all I ever saw season after season was this..
(Real Madrid 3-1) agg 3-2. 21/22"
( PSG vs Barcelona 4-1) agg 5-2 20/21"
(Bayern Munich 8 - 2 Barcelona) 19/20"
(Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona) agg 4-3 18/19"
(As Roma 3-0 Barcelona) 4-4agg Roma win 17/18"
Juventus 3-0 Barcelona (0-0 following game) 16-17"
( Ateltico Madrid 2-0 Barcelona) 3- 2 aggregate Atheltico. 15-16"
Then there's the :
Lionel Messi has failed to score or produce an assist in his last nine appearances against Real Madrid.
I just can't watch all this stuff and watch this stuff regularly and be calling out for him to be my GOAT.
What do MJ and Brady have in common that make them the GOAT of their sport? The intangibles, the mentality. You can’t teach that you either you have it or you don’t and Ronaldo has it in abundance.
Wow, good job on having a cynical (and wrong) take on what is a genuinely good-natured comment! You must be fun at parties.
Your looking desperate now, saying Ronaldo “quit” Juve because your embarrassed Messi quit on his country. Like I said someone who quit on their country can not be considered goat. Someone who loses not one, not two, but MULTIPLE aggregate leads in CL…..mentally weak player can’t be the goat. Back to back 3-0 leads and ends up losing the tie. Show me one time Ronaldo did that? I’ll help you out…none.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 3 peat CL Messi has never come close to that.
- Is Argentina or Brazil in the final of the copa 9x out of 10? If the answer is yes please don’t even bother replying. Can’t take a tournament like that seriously.
- How many finals did Portugal play in before Ronaldo? Oh zero? How many wins? Oh zero? So with Ronaldo they have won 2? Oh ok ya don’t even bother mentioning internationals again. Who has the most international goals? Who has had far better international teams under his name (Messi) and has more losses? I know the answer do you?
- Ronaldo is technically deficient?
- Ronaldo isn’t creative you say? Let’s laugh together at this stat then. Ronaldo leads the champions league In not just goals….he leads in assists as well….more then ….Messi
-Ronaldo won a Balon d or in 2 different leagues, golden boot in 2 different leagues, league champions in 3 different leagues. Won a champions league in 2 different teams with different players and coaches Went to Juve at 33 and won 2 more league titles In yet another league and Scored over 100 goals for Juve in record pace with guys like Adrian rabiot, bentancur, and Ramsey behind him. Then he goes to United at 37! And is second top goal scorer in England while also scoring more goals in ONE game then Messi has in his whole ligue 1 season.
- Messi first experience in a new league and new team and he chose the easiest of the top 5 leagues (Portugal is right by France multiple times so top 5-6 league) and the superpower team in that league and still struggles. His only CL wins came with the spine of the greatest national team of all time who won a 3 peat internationally without a striker.
Buddy I just took your straw man debate apart…Again. Like I said before murder with words, goodnight.
you are from Portugal, right? yes, you just killed me with your arguments..
could not refute any arguments in my post changing the goal posts as expected
but credit to you you are trying really hard to create something out of nothing..Do you still think Ronaldo is a more complete player than Pele, Maradona or Messi
? Do you think he is a better passer, dribbler, playmaker than these guys? Do you think he has better technique or more creativity? Do you think he is a more elegant player than those guys? Do you think Ronaldo is a more exciting player to watch than these guys?You are repeating the same old 3-peat this, 3-peat that argument as usual as if football is not a team sport and Ronaldo won all by himself while ghosting in finals not to mention the guy could only win 2 La Ligas in 9 years with a single La Liga MVP award.. Even Chelsea won CL last year, does not make them the best team in Europe.. In CL, you need plenty of luck and Real had that with Ramos, Bale & Karius doing the rest of the job for Ronaldo in the finals while he is ghosting.. Not to mention conveniently ignoring the fact that Ronaldo worked under "average" managers ever like Mourinho, SAF, Ancelotti, Zidane, Allegri unlike Messi and talk as if Ronaldo was playing with "average" players like Rio, Scholes, Keane, Tevez, Rooney, Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Ramos, Marcelo..
You also talk about goals this goals that as if that is the only success metric in football conveniently ignoring that even in goal scoring, Messi has more golden shoes, more league top goal scorer awards as well as better goal per game ratio while not even playing as a striker..
Below are the individual awards list in a team sport, buddy, enjoy..
Ballon D'or: Messi 7 > Ronaldo 5
Golden Shoe: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 4
Pichichi: Messi 5 > Ronaldo 3
La Liga Most Assists: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 0
IFFHS Best Playmaker: Messi 4> Ronaldo 0
International Tournament MVP: Messi 5 > Ronaldo 0
IFFHS Playmaker of the Decade: Messi
La Liga Best Player Award: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 1
Since you are obsessed with number of goals, see below..
Most goals in a calendar year - Messi (91)
Most goals in a season - Messi (73)
Most assists in a calendar year - Messi (36)
Since you are obsessed with numbers in detail, see below..
goal+assist leaders
2009: messi (56)
2010: messi (58)
2011: messi (77)
2012: messi (104)
2013: messi (76)
2014: ronaldo (68)
2015: messi (88)
2016: suarez (81)
2017: messi (72)
2018: messi (63)
2019: messi (71)
2020: lewandowski (65)
A lot of things, technique, creativity, elegance, individual awards, team awards, intelligence, vision, leadership, prioritizing team interests etc. Since Ronaldo is inferior to many in most these areas, you start talking about intangible mentality as if Maradona, Messi, Pele, Cruyff, Muller, Lewa, Benzema, Beckenbauer does'/did not have winner "mentality". Before you start talking about mentality, you need to match the other competitors in other key areas, Ronaldo is just inferior in those areas so mentality is not even relevant in his case for comparison purposes..
Also, why are you trying so hard to convince people that Ronaldo has elite mentality? People are not buying your arguments and criteria you set to make Ronaldo shine like "number of goals" while looking down on players like Pele who was 10 times the player Ronaldo is for many..
Nice more straw man arguments with no response to any of my main points stated instead saying “luck”. You just made my point, nice talking to you this was fun.you are from Portugal, right? yes, you just killed me with your arguments..
could not refute any arguments in my post changing the goal posts as expected
Do you still think Ronaldo is a more complete player than Pele, Maradona or Messi
You are repeating the same old 3-peat this, 3-peat that argument as usual as if football is not a team sport and Ronaldo won all by himself while ghosting in finals not to mention the guy could only win 2 La Ligas in 9 years with a single La Liga MVP award.. Even Chelsea won CL last year, does not make them the best team in Europe.. In CL, you need plenty of luck and Real had that with Ramos, Bale & Karius doing the rest of the job for Ronaldo in the finals while he is ghosting.. Not to mention conveniently ignoring the fact that Ronaldo worked under "average" managers ever like Mourinho, SAF, Ancelotti, Zidane, Allegri unlike Messi and talk as if Ronaldo was playing with "average" players like Rio, Scholes, Keane, Tevez, Rooney, Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Ramos, Marcelo..
You also talk about goals this goals that as if that is the only success metric in football conveniently ignoring that even in goal scoring, Messi has more golden shoes, more league top goal scorer awards as well as better goal per game ratio while not even playing as a striker..
Below are the individual awards list in a team sport, buddy, enjoy..
Ballon D'or: Messi 7 > Ronaldo 5
Golden Shoe: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 4
Pichichi: Messi 5 > Ronaldo 3
La Liga Most Assists: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 0
IFFHS Best Playmaker: Messi 4> Ronaldo 0
International Tournament MVP: Messi 5 > Ronaldo 0
IFFHS Playmaker of the Decade: Messi
La Liga Best Player Award: Messi 6 > Ronaldo 1
Since you are obsessed with number of goals, see below..
Most goals in a calendar year - Messi (91)
Most goals in a season - Messi (73)
Most assists in a calendar year - Messi (36)
Since you are obsessed with numbers in detail, see below..
goal+assist leaders
2009: messi (56)
2010: messi (58)
2011: messi (77)
2012: messi (104)
2013: messi (76)
2014: ronaldo (68)
2015: messi (88)
2016: suarez (81)
2017: messi (72)
2018: messi (63)
2019: messi (71)
2020: lewandowski (65)
Try again next time.
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ten times the player Ronaldo was
Jesus Christ dude just give it up while you still can, also Ronaldo has every single thing you stated in the beginning of your paragraph so what the feck are you even saying
your really struggling here dude.“prioritizing team interest” but he QUIT on his country
Feck me you can’t make this upten times the player Ronaldo was
are you from Portugal?
Yes what’s your point, look at my name it’s my favorite team.
@genardkten times the player Ronaldo was
“prioritizing team interest” but he QUIT on his country
ten times the player Ronaldo was
“prioritizing team interest” but he QUIT on his country
bro, you do not win arguments acting this way putting "tons" of emojis, it just makes you look funny. Are you ok? I understand Ronaldo is a national hero for you, but most neutral fans outside Portugal do not see him as the GOAT, millions of emojis won't change that. A lot of posters already explained to you how ridiculous your claims are in this thread, you are trying too hard.
yes, prioritizing team interests while using all free-kicks at Juve with a conversion rate of 1/72 still not sharing with any other player , it is a well known fact that Ronaldo is a very selfish player obsessed with his stats, any Juve fan will tell you that, even here most United fans say the same..does not mean that he is not a great player, of course he is, but he also has character flaws bordering narcissism at times..
Ronaldo does not have the GOAT technique+creativity+passing+playmaking+dribbling skills + elegance of Pele/Maradona/Messi so he does not belong to this group.
You are avoiding my simple questions thinking putting emojis would somehow strengthen your position while it just makes you look funny. By giving direct yes/no answers to below questions, the debate will be over. Don't worry, I will not come back with new questions.
Do you think Ronaldo is a more complete player than Pele/Maradona/Messi? Y/N
Do you think he is a better passer, dribbler, playmaker than these guys? Y/N
Do you think he has better technique or more creativity than these guys? Y./N
Do you think he is a more elegant player than those guys? Y/N
Do you think Ronaldo is a more exciting player to watch than these guys? Y/N
@genardk buddy this convo pretty much ended after this post here.Your looking desperate now, saying Ronaldo “quit” Juve because your embarrassed Messi quit on his country. Like I said someone who quit on their country can not be considered goat. Someone who loses not one, not two, but MULTIPLE aggregate leads in CL…..mentally weak player can’t be the goat. Back to back 3-0 leads and ends up losing the tie. Show me one time Ronaldo did that? I’ll help you out…none.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 5 CL titles to 3 (the one in 05 he has no influence on and barely played. He is by faaarrrrr the best CL player ever and most would not even question it. He is called Mr. Champions league for a reason. So cool now we can’t talk about CL either.
- 3 peat CL Messi has never come close to that.
- Is Argentina or Brazil in the final of the copa 9x out of 10? If the answer is yes please don’t even bother replying. Can’t take a tournament like that seriously.
- How many finals did Portugal play in before Ronaldo? Oh zero? How many wins? Oh zero? So with Ronaldo they have won 2? Oh ok ya don’t even bother mentioning internationals again. Who has the most international goals? Who has had far better international teams under his name (Messi) and has more losses? I know the answer do you?
- Ronaldo is technically deficient?
- Ronaldo isn’t creative you say? Let’s laugh together at this stat then. Ronaldo leads the champions league In not just goals….he leads in assists as well….more then ….Messi
-Ronaldo won a Balon d or in 2 different leagues, golden boot in 2 different leagues, league champions in 3 different leagues. Won a champions league in 2 different teams with different players and coaches Went to Juve at 33 and won 2 more league titles In yet another league and Scored over 100 goals for Juve in record pace with guys like Adrian rabiot, bentancur, and Ramsey behind him. Then he goes to United at 37! And is second top goal scorer in England while also scoring more goals in ONE game then Messi has in his whole ligue 1 season.
- Messi first experience in a new league and new team and he chose the easiest of the top 5 leagues (Portugal is right by France multiple times so top 5-6 league) and the superpower team in that league and still struggles. His only CL wins came with the spine of the greatest national team of all time who won a 3 peat internationally without a striker.
Buddy I just took your straw man debate apart…Again. Like I said before murder with words, goodnight.
One thing is for certain, Ronaldo did it everywhere he went madrid, juventus, manchester, and with the portuguese national team. On the otherhand, messi was only great for barcelona. I count copa america as a mickey mouse cup as it was opened every single year just so that they can let messi win and make more money. Copa america should never ever be counted as on the same level with the euros.
Ronaldinho should never in 100 millions years be above the likes of Di Stefano or Beckenbauer in anyone list though, when you also considerYeah, silly me putting Pele, Maradona, Messi, R9, Cruyff, Best, CR7, Ronaldinho, Zidane etc. in my top 10 of all time list. Really rebellious picks.
And by the way, I don't think Hazard was better than Henry, not at all. I am really wondering where do you get all this ideas from
their overall impact/influence/legacy/career. But I get where you coming from, just got to disagree with it.
Why would anything that either of them do now - as two players with their best days very, very clearly behind them - have any bearing on who was better?
Look at the goal difference when Messi and Ronaldo played. +89 and +85 goal differences in 2011/12? In 2011/12, Real Madrid and Barcelona won combined:
6-0, 6-2, 7-1, 6-2, 5-0, 5-1, 5-1, 5-0, 8-0, 5-0, 5-0, 5-0, 5-1, 5-3, 7-0
Probably the least balanced top league in modern history, people in 20-25 years may not be able to take it seriously.
Pele could run 100 metres in 11 seconds in the 1960s, faster than most footballers today, even back then. He was a phenomenon in all aspects of his game. He destroyed Benfica and all European teams he played and was the best player in World Cups against the best of the world in his time. The Brazilian leagues had the best players because all the best players in the world at the time were Brazilian and players abroad. Pele is like the Muhammad Ali of football, the Beatles of music, he's immortal. Only Maradona and Messi can compare to him.
Personally I couldn't possibly consider Cristiano Ronaldo to be a better player than Ronaldinho was just because he played at a higher level for longer. Both at their best, Ronaldo just was not as good, and Ronaldinho was in his prime at Barcelona for 3 and a half/ four years which is a perfectly reasonable period of peak form. The way people talk about how brief his best was, you would think he only put it all together for one season or for a couple of half seasons over his career.
Because their careers aren’t over and Messi struggling doesn’t mean you should halt it here because it’s unflattering to Messi?
Ronaldo scored 36 goals last year and is on course for what? Around 25 if he finishes the season strong this season? Maybe we are spoiled by 50 goals a season madness but those numbers are nothing to scoff at
And Ronaldo.
Ya,no. Even people of Brazil don’t agree with this sentiment with many claiming Garrincha was just as important, in the World Cup wins he was arguably not the best player for Brazil.
Are you seriously trying to compare the level of football played today to back then? Poor Defenders and poor overall quality.
Pele isn’t even the best or most talented Brazilian player of all time. Ronaldo Nazario, Romario...
Maradona was better then Pele the same way both Ronaldo and Messi are superior players and talents.
- Before 1971 Santos played in the Campeonato Paulista which was a regional competition which explains a lot of the 11-0 scoreline vs plumbers. The official Brazilian national league didn't exist yet. Pele scored 470 goals in this "competition".
- When Pele played in the official top flight league of Brazilian football he scored ....34 goals in 84 games
- Fontaine, Jarzinho, and Garrincha and Gerson, didi, tostao were just as important and influential in that Brazil team. Those WC wins would easily happen without Pele which was proved in 62 when he did not play the whole competition after he got injured the first game and Brazil still easily won the world cup.
I can keep going and going. He does not sit at the table with Ronaldo, Messi, and Maradona.
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Didi was the player of the tournament in 58I can't work out if you are serious or not
Garincha carried the team and was just as talented in 62 and had as much Importance as Pele in 70, Fontaine was also the top scorer.
Pele played in a regional league until the formal Brazilian league was formed. The list goes on. He is not the GOAT nor is he in the conversation with Messi, Maradona and Ronaldo.
He won't, he is physically shot. He could get goals here and there for sure but absolutely no way he would score easily 20+ goals.
On top of that, the man has little interest in the Ligue 1
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