Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Peyroteo]

So why did you say it? Just like your last paragraph about Ronaldo's adaptability and how it's easier to build a team around him. It made zero sense to say those things in response to what I was talking about.

Am I not allowed to make other points?

I'll quote myself again..

Not really the best quoting when you omit the part that matters.

I'd love a quote for that one as well, so far you're you've accused me of a lot of things while proving precisely nothing. As for Portugal, this is what you said.

I actually searched for that myself and found zero posts where I've mentioned Ronaldo's performances for Portugal. Only did one search though so maybe you have more luck. Or perhaps this is yet another time where you accuse me of something I didn't say. It's happened 4 times now in a few hours so it's not like that would be something new.

Where in that did I say you were downplaying his performances for Portugal, how many times will you misunderstand the same sentence? I said you ignored his performances for Portugal next to lesser teammates while downplaying his Madrid performances by saying he wouldn't be able to replicate it with lesser teammates. Thet's literally all I've ever accused you of because I've read it... the fact you've managed to misunderstand the same quote 4 different times is astounding.

I say you ignore Portugal performances, you reply by asking me to show a quote of you talking about his Portugal performances... what the feck. That's literally the opposite of what ignoring means.

Sure, next time Ronaldo has a good game I'll do what I did yesterday, release all my anger and bitterness in a post describing how good I think he was.

"Wow. Ronaldo looked fantastic tonight, he got lucky the defense made those mistakes and he definitely wasn't good on the ball or at pressing the opponents though... the ref gave him all the calls he needed too! This is the best I've seen of him in years, it's totally rare that he plays well ahah he was fantastic though!"

This is just stupid, we're arguing about previous posts instead of arguing about football. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Tom Foster]

I think this debate has been fascinating for years and will go on for at least another 2 years. It’s like a giant chess game where, at the end of each play, opinions differ.
So, at the moment, I would say that, although Messi still gets the nod on actual physical performance (just about, but I’m not sure), Ronaldo has leapt ahead on what I would call the Frank Sinatra syndrome, whereby Ronaldo still does his bit very aadequately, but crucially, his mere presence and stature drags everybody along, whether they’re up for it or not. If I was a bit part player for Portugal or Madrid, and I looked across and saw this 6 foot plus 30 plus year old bloke doing what Ronaldo does, I’d raise my game every time.
Sinatra had the same effect in some very ordinary film roles, whereby his mere presence lifted everybody to heights they could never have imagined. Sorry that I couldn’t have thought of a more recent analogy.

 

[ManUtd1999]

I just read his whole post and he says real won’t miss Ronaldo when he goes

I stopped reading at that point.

 

[tenpoless]

Messi will have been Spanish player of the year nine times when he inevitably wins it for 2017-18. Ronaldo has won it once. Messi has dominated Spanish football for a decade.

Furthermore, Messi led La Liga in goals, assists, completed dribbles, key passes, in every conceivable matrix last season. This is totally unique, there is no other player who comes close to this in any major European league. Even in France and Germany, where it is a walkover for PSG and Bayern, there is no player producing anything close to what Messi produced last year. Let alone is Ronaldo anywhere near that level. He's a highly effective forward, he's a poacher like Gerd Muller, except that Muller had a significantly better record.

That's why, as I said earlier, Simeone stated that Atletico would have won the league last season if they had Messi. He didn't say that about Ronaldo because he knows it's not true! Equally, when Ronaldo goes, Real won't really miss him. They'll sign some other galactico, get a major centre-forward, someone like Lewandowski, and continue to play exactly the same way they do now with similar results. When Messi leaves Barcelona, or declines, they are going to seriously struggle because he is instrumental to every aspect of their play.

Additionally, Messi has won significantly more than Ronaldo, and at a younger age. He will also have scored more goals than Ronaldo by the time he is Ronaldo's age, this is inevitable, and he's miles ahead statistically in every other aspect of play. Messi has a better goals-per-game ratio, and has set scoring records that Ronaldo hasn't come close to matching, despite the fact that his entire game is geared to scoring goals. Messi scored 71 in one season, whereas Ronaldo's best tally is 61. And Messi's 71 came in a season in which Barca finished second. He also has the calendar year record, which again Ronaldo has come nowhere near equalling.

One free-kick, which was frankly due considering Ronaldo's conversion rate for free-kicks has become embarrassing, will not change that. Messi is the better player, quite honestly by some distance, Messi has a far superior skillset, Messi has had the more successful career in terms of medals won, Messi has dominated Spanish football, Messi has the better statistics, Messi is widely recognised by his fellow and ex-professionals to be the best player of his generation, if not ever.

Messi is compared to Maradona and Pele, Ronaldo is compared to Messi. It's really only Real Madrid fans, Portugese people, deluded United fans who think Ronaldo gives a sh*t about United, and impressionable children who would even compare bracket Ronaldo with Messi. Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better. It really is a no-brainer.

In the past, this would have been recognised easily. It was recognised easily when Muller and Cruyff were playing, despite Muller massively outscoring Cruyff. Today, with all of the blanket media coverage of absolutely everything, many impressionable people can easily be led astray on many different topics. In reality, the gap in performance between Messi and Ronaldo is significantly bigger than that of Cruyff and Muller, but some people lack the perspective, objectivity, and / or intelligence to recognise this.

Again, one qualifying game, in which Ronaldo scored his first ever goal in the World Cup (wow, he must be the best player of all-time!) will not change this.

Not a Ronaldo fanboy but of course Messi is better in this post because you only put the things Messi did better than Ronaldo.

Congratulations for writing wall of texts to convince yourself if Messi is better! you can now go to Mr. Wings because when you win then you can go to Mr. Wings.

 

[HorrorFan07]

Messi is finished. No longer has that magic.

Messi has already hinted he is going to retire from Argentina after this World Cup.. yet the 2 years older Ronaldo hasn't even hinted he MIGHT retire from the Portugal National Team. So strange !

 

[Son Of Sam]

Messi will have been Spanish player of the year nine times when he inevitably wins it for 2017-18. Ronaldo has won it once. Messi has dominated Spanish football for a decade.

Furthermore, Messi led La Liga in goals, assists, completed dribbles, key passes, in every conceivable matrix last season. This is totally unique, there is no other player who comes close to this in any major European league. Even in France and Germany, where it is a walkover for PSG and Bayern, there is no player producing anything close to what Messi produced last year. Let alone is Ronaldo anywhere near that level. He's a highly effective forward, he's a poacher like Gerd Muller, except that Muller had a significantly better record.

That's why, as I said earlier, Simeone stated that Atletico would have won the league last season if they had Messi. He didn't say that about Ronaldo because he knows it's not true! Equally, when Ronaldo goes, Real won't really miss him. They'll sign some other galactico, get a major centre-forward, someone like Lewandowski, and continue to play exactly the same way they do now with similar results. When Messi leaves Barcelona, or declines, they are going to seriously struggle because he is instrumental to every aspect of their play.

Additionally, Messi has won significantly more than Ronaldo, and at a younger age. He will also have scored more goals than Ronaldo by the time he is Ronaldo's age, this is inevitable, and he's miles ahead statistically in every other aspect of play. Messi has a better goals-per-game ratio, and has set scoring records that Ronaldo hasn't come close to matching, despite the fact that his entire game is geared to scoring goals. Messi scored 71 in one season, whereas Ronaldo's best tally is 61. And Messi's 71 came in a season in which Barca finished second. He also has the calendar year record, which again Ronaldo has come nowhere near equalling.

One free-kick, which was frankly due considering Ronaldo's conversion rate for free-kicks has become embarrassing, will not change that. Messi is the better player, quite honestly by some distance, Messi has a far superior skillset, Messi has had the more successful career in terms of medals won, Messi has dominated Spanish football, Messi has the better statistics, Messi is widely recognised by his fellow and ex-professionals to be the best player of his generation, if not ever.

Messi is compared to Maradona and Pele, Ronaldo is compared to Messi. It's really only Real Madrid fans, Portugese people, deluded United fans who think Ronaldo gives a sh*t about United, and impressionable children who would even compare bracket Ronaldo with Messi. Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better. It really is a no-brainer.

In the past, this would have been recognised easily. It was recognised easily when Muller and Cruyff were playing, despite Muller massively outscoring Cruyff. Today, with all of the blanket media coverage of absolutely everything, many impressionable people can easily be led astray on many different topics. In reality, the gap in performance between Messi and Ronaldo is significantly bigger than that of Cruyff and Muller, but some people lack the perspective, objectivity, and / or intelligence to recognise this.

Again, one qualifying game, in which Ronaldo scored his first ever goal in the World Cup (wow, he must be the best player of all-time!) will not change this.

This is such a shit post.....

Messi has had the luxury of playing with the finest playmakers in Europe - Xavi & Iniesta. If you look at Ballon d’Or since the first time Messi won it, 3-4 of the top six have always been Messi’s team mates.

Ronaldo rarely had a team mate in the top 5 for the past 10 years, that simply tells me Messi has always gotten quality support in Barca than Ronaldo has ever had at any time in his career. You can check the facts yourself.

What completed the joke in your post was you saying Real Madrid wouldn’t miss Ronaldo when he leaves - that is pure baloney. He’s their greatest player ever. The entire Spain will miss Ronaldo when he leaves.

 

[Prometheus]

It's really only Real Madrid fans, Portugese people, deluded United fans who think Ronaldo gives a sh*t about United, and impressionable children who would even compare bracket Ronaldo with Messi. Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better. It really is a no-brainer.

This the stereotype I've in my head of Messi fans. I know it isn't all of them, but a ridiculous number of them come off as hipsters who see themselves as connoisseurs of the game: "Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better."

 

[Denis79]

This the stereotype I've in my head of Messi fans. I know it isn't all of them, but a ridiculous number of them come off as hipsters who see themselves as connoisseurs of the game: "Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better."

I have the same feeling. I consider myself quite neutral in the Ronaldo vs Messi battle tbh. Both incredible players with different strengths. Messi has more talent and Ronaldo has the stronger mentality in my opinion.

 

[maniwin]

How is this still argument ? Bet Ronaldo still good enough in 37 ,won more trophies while Messi has retired. Which will put this discussion to bed , so i will just putting it today , Ronaldo > Messi.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The vote is exactly 50/50 now

 

[KM]

Messi will have been Spanish player of the year nine times when he inevitably wins it for 2017-18. Ronaldo has won it once. Messi has dominated Spanish football for a decade.

Furthermore, Messi led La Liga in goals, assists, completed dribbles, key passes, in every conceivable matrix last season. This is totally unique, there is no other player who comes close to this in any major European league. Even in France and Germany, where it is a walkover for PSG and Bayern, there is no player producing anything close to what Messi produced last year. Let alone is Ronaldo anywhere near that level. He's a highly effective forward, he's a poacher like Gerd Muller, except that Muller had a significantly better record.

That's why, as I said earlier, Simeone stated that Atletico would have won the league last season if they had Messi. He didn't say that about Ronaldo because he knows it's not true! Equally, when Ronaldo goes, Real won't really miss him. They'll sign some other galactico, get a major centre-forward, someone like Lewandowski, and continue to play exactly the same way they do now with similar results. When Messi leaves Barcelona, or declines, they are going to seriously struggle because he is instrumental to every aspect of their play.

Additionally, Messi has won significantly more than Ronaldo, and at a younger age. He will also have scored more goals than Ronaldo by the time he is Ronaldo's age, this is inevitable, and he's miles ahead statistically in every other aspect of play. Messi has a better goals-per-game ratio, and has set scoring records that Ronaldo hasn't come close to matching, despite the fact that his entire game is geared to scoring goals. Messi scored 71 in one season, whereas Ronaldo's best tally is 61. And Messi's 71 came in a season in which Barca finished second. He also has the calendar year record, which again Ronaldo has come nowhere near equalling.

One free-kick, which was frankly due considering Ronaldo's conversion rate for free-kicks has become embarrassing, will not change that. Messi is the better player, quite honestly by some distance, Messi has a far superior skillset, Messi has had the more successful career in terms of medals won, Messi has dominated Spanish football, Messi has the better statistics, Messi is widely recognised by his fellow and ex-professionals to be the best player of his generation, if not ever.

Messi is compared to Maradona and Pele, Ronaldo is compared to Messi. It's really only Real Madrid fans, Portugese people, deluded United fans who think Ronaldo gives a sh*t about United, and impressionable children who would even compare bracket Ronaldo with Messi. Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better. It really is a no-brainer.

In the past, this would have been recognised easily. It was recognised easily when Muller and Cruyff were playing, despite Muller massively outscoring Cruyff. Today, with all of the blanket media coverage of absolutely everything, many impressionable people can easily be led astray on many different topics. In reality, the gap in performance between Messi and Ronaldo is significantly bigger than that of Cruyff and Muller, but some people lack the perspective, objectivity, and / or intelligence to recognise this.

Again, one qualifying game, in which Ronaldo scored his first ever goal in the World Cup (wow, he must be the best player of all-time!) will not change this.

Christ you really do have an high opinion of yourself. I do think Messi is better but the gap has lowered quite a bit in the last two three years.

 

[Shiva87]

Amazing work mods

FFS let’s just agree to appreciate them both. It’s frightening what they’ve done, never been an individual rivalry like it in the history of sport.

Perhaps history of football only. Tennis has a similar (if not bigger) individual rivalry going on.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi will have been Spanish player of the year nine times when he inevitably wins it for 2017-18. Ronaldo has won it once. Messi has dominated Spanish football for a decade.

Furthermore, Messi led La Liga in goals, assists, completed dribbles, key passes, in every conceivable matrix last season. This is totally unique, there is no other player who comes close to this in any major European league. Even in France and Germany, where it is a walkover for PSG and Bayern, there is no player producing anything close to what Messi produced last year. Let alone is Ronaldo anywhere near that level. He's a highly effective forward, he's a poacher like Gerd Muller, except that Muller had a significantly better record.

That's why, as I said earlier, Simeone stated that Atletico would have won the league last season if they had Messi. He didn't say that about Ronaldo because he knows it's not true! Equally, when Ronaldo goes, Real won't really miss him. They'll sign some other galactico, get a major centre-forward, someone like Lewandowski, and continue to play exactly the same way they do now with similar results. When Messi leaves Barcelona, or declines, they are going to seriously struggle because he is instrumental to every aspect of their play.

Additionally, Messi has won significantly more than Ronaldo, and at a younger age. He will also have scored more goals than Ronaldo by the time he is Ronaldo's age, this is inevitable, and he's miles ahead statistically in every other aspect of play. Messi has a better goals-per-game ratio, and has set scoring records that Ronaldo hasn't come close to matching, despite the fact that his entire game is geared to scoring goals. Messi scored 71 in one season, whereas Ronaldo's best tally is 61. And Messi's 71 came in a season in which Barca finished second. He also has the calendar year record, which again Ronaldo has come nowhere near equalling.

One free-kick, which was frankly due considering Ronaldo's conversion rate for free-kicks has become embarrassing, will not change that. Messi is the better player, quite honestly by some distance, Messi has a far superior skillset, Messi has had the more successful career in terms of medals won, Messi has dominated Spanish football, Messi has the better statistics, Messi is widely recognised by his fellow and ex-professionals to be the best player of his generation, if not ever.

Messi is compared to Maradona and Pele, Ronaldo is compared to Messi. It's really only Real Madrid fans, Portugese people, deluded United fans who think Ronaldo gives a sh*t about United, and impressionable children who would even compare bracket Ronaldo with Messi. Anyone who knows anything about football and is remotely objective considers Messi to be better. It really is a no-brainer.

In the past, this would have been recognised easily. It was recognised easily when Muller and Cruyff were playing, despite Muller massively outscoring Cruyff. Today, with all of the blanket media coverage of absolutely everything, many impressionable people can easily be led astray on many different topics. In reality, the gap in performance between Messi and Ronaldo is significantly bigger than that of Cruyff and Muller, but some people lack the perspective, objectivity, and / or intelligence to recognise this.

Again, one qualifying game, in which Ronaldo scored his first ever goal in the World Cup (wow, he must be the best player of all-time!) will not change this.

This post is embarrassing to read... as one-sided as the one with Ronaldo vs Messi in court which totally favours Ronaldo....

We all know Messi is the best ever player in La Liga (Ronaldo the 2nd best), then again we all know Ronaldo is the best ever player in CL (Messi the 2nd best), and arguably better player for national team (and more proven outside La Liga).

Bad arguments for or against are the one which often totally ignoring one area while totally favouring the other.

But the timing of your totally one-sided post and is what it makes it so embarrassing to read...

 

[Treble]

wub1234 should be banned for aggressively stupid posts.

"Ronaldo is a very effective but limited forward" - how stupid is that, seriously?

One can easily make a case for Ronaldo being one of the most complete forwards ever:

two-footed - check
monster in the air - check
great at set pieces - check
quick - check
top movement - check
great reading of the game - check
hunger and determination- check
excellent in big games - check
one touch passing - check
good forst touch - check
assisting many goals - check


There is a reason why he tops both the goalscoring and assisting charts in the CL.

 

[Womp]

I maintain opinion that Messi is the best I've ever seen and one or two games won't change my opinion, given they've both been dominant for so long. Now if one of them go on to win the tournament...

 

[mariachi-19]

It must make Messi fans irate that in the space of 24 hours, Ronaldo nets a Hattrick against arguably the best team in the comp, and Messi misses a penalty against A country with a population or 330,000.

 

[Fortitude]

Totally agree with Evra's take on their respective mentalities: Ronaldo relishes the pressure, Messi doesn't.

It's absurd to suggest he crumbles under the pressure but I think he finds it more of a chore. Ronaldo loves that it all rests on him. They obviously exist in very different environments where Messi is not only responsible for the clinical moments but for every phase of play, so the pressure is much more constant. Ronaldo has been the key player for over a decade but he's never been the player people look to every time they get the ball. Both he and his team-mates know to limit his involvement to where he can be most devastating. Messi hasn't had that kind of role for a long time and I reckon that takes a much bigger toll.

I don't think Ronaldo has ever been a better player than Messi at their respective peaks, but I think he might well end up being the greater player. Still a long way to go but I didn't think that was possible years ago. What he's done since then is insane.

By most accounts, Messi elects who even gets in the Argentina squad, and if he doesn't like them, they're vetoed. If that's the case, then he has to carry the load with no excuses because the players that could be put in the team to share the load are not 'allowed' to play. In fact, the team looked crippled by the onus to give or let everything go through Messi.

It's fine when it works out, but an absolute shambles when it doesn't.

Messi has to display the intelligence to vary what he does and alter the point of attack via movement or a different style of passing. If he wants to be a Maradona or Platini, then he has to display the guile and nous that they did, if he doesn't want that burden then he has to allow others in the team to share the load.

There's no excuse for one so talented to just try the same few things over and over and he can't have it both ways in both blaming the team for incompetence whilst doing nothing to remedy that himself.

As usual, this thread has gone completely overboard off the basis of one game and a lot can happen to change opinions in the remainder of the tournament, but I do have my doubts Messi can, or even knows how to, change tact. If that's the case, he's reliant on the same things he's doing working out against more open opponents rather than him showing great tactical nous or intelligence whereas it isn't improbable that we see an adaptive Ronaldo who finds a way around a wall rather than trying to go straight through it time and again.

I think this is a legacy tournament for both of them and possibly the last World Cup 'of worth' to them with regard to changing or enhancing their resumes. I really think it's the tournament where both have to dig deep into their mental approach to the game and not rely on physical gifts or superiority in specific facets of the game. I'd add that failure here, as in performing way below standard, is far more damaging to Messi than it is to Ronaldo for a number of reasons. Is that fair? Probably not, but Messi, regarded as the truer challenger to 'gods', has more to lose here in terms of falling off what is expected of him than Ronaldo.

I hope some soul searching takes place in that Argentine camp and they come to some sort of understanding because as things stand, they're going to struggle to even get out of the group. There's no question the other teams will watch what Iceland did and replicate some part of it by putting multiple bodies on Messi, and if he is insistent on being the soul conduit for his team, he's going to have to pull out a Platini/Maradona level of performance or he'll be the major reason why his team are eliminated.

 

[cafecillos]

and Messi misses a penalty against A country with a population or 330,000.

...which Ronaldo destroyed in this memorable match: https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/matches/round=2000448/match=2017959/index.html

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

By most accounts, Messi elects who even gets in the Argentina squad, and if he doesn't like them, they're vetoed. If that's the case, then he has to carry the load with no excuses because the players that could be put in the team to share the load are not 'allowed' to play. In fact, the team looked crippled by the onus to give or let everything go through Messi.

It's fine when it works out, but an absolute shambles when it doesn't.

Messi has to display the intelligence to vary what he does and alter the point of attack via movement or a different style of passing. If he wants to be a Maradona or Platini, then he has to display the guile and nous that they did, if he doesn't want that burden then he has to allow others in the team to share the load.

There's no excuse for one so talented to just try the same few things over and over and he can't have it both ways in both blaming the team for incompetence whilst doing nothing to remedy that himself.

As usual, this thread has gone completely overboard off the basis of one game and a lot can happen to change opinions in the remainder of the tournament, but I do have my doubts Messi can, or even knows how to, change tact. If that's the case, he's reliant on the same things he's doing working out against more open opponents rather than him showing great tactical nous or intelligence whereas it isn't improbable that we see an adaptive Ronaldo who finds a way around a wall rather than trying to go straight through it time and again.

I think this is a legacy tournament for both of them and possibly the last World Cup 'of worth' to them with regard to changing or enhancing their resumes. I really think it's the tournament where both have to dig deep into their mental approach to the game and not rely on physical gifts or superiority in specific facets of the game. I'd add that failure here, as in performing way below standard, is far more damaging to Messi than it is to Ronaldo for a number of reasons. Is that fair? Probably not, but Messi, regarded as the truer challenger to 'gods', has more to lose here in terms of falling off what is expected of him than Ronaldo.

I hope some soul searching takes place in that Argentine camp and they come to some sort of understanding because as things stand, they're going to struggle to even get out of the group. There's no question the other teams will watch what Iceland did and replicate some part of it by putting multiple bodies on Messi, and if he is insistent on being the soul conduit for his team, he's going to have to pull out a Platini/Maradona level of performance or he'll be the major reason why his team are eliminated.

For me unless they stop trying to make him the central creator of the team. Argentina are doomed. Because most teams will simply put a box of 4 players players around him like Iceland did and unless he has an over the top game, he will be snuffed

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So is it true that Messi picks the Argentina side or is it just a rumour?

 

[Bastian]

It must make Messi fans irate that in the space of 24 hours, Ronaldo nets a Hattrick against arguably the best team in the comp, and Messi misses a penalty against A country with a population or 330,000.

Ronaldo is my favourite ever United player and I think he's the better player at the moment, but I'd say Ronaldo would have struggled against a cohesive unit like the Iceland side and Messi would have had much more space against Spain. That being said, Ronaldo was phenomenal against Spain and I don't think any player will have a better game in the tournament. Just worth pointing out that it's not easy to have a stellar game against a team that defends brilliantly on the day.

 

[Fortitude]

For me unless they stop trying to make him the central creator of the team. Argentina are doomed. Because most teams will simply put a box of 4 players players around him like Iceland did and unless he has an over the top game, he will be snuffed

But the question is, I guess, is it him wanting/demanding that role, or is it the coach instructing it?

A lot of the woes of that team could be assuaged with a more amenable starting xi where Messi doesn't have to play as the 2nd coming of Di Stefano for anything positive to happen.

He can't be in three places at once, and he isn't as expansive in what he wants to do with the ball as true sitters, because he wants it back to take the shots on himself.

The rest of the team look like they are in fear of the wrath of Messi/coach/support if they do something independent of passing or giving the ball back to Messi and that's the opposite effect to what they should have.

A lot of their issues are self-made and can be worked upon if egos can be placed to the side and the team actually want to function as a team rather than a tool for Messi to enhance himself.

 

[kouroux]

For me unless they stop trying to make him the central creator of the team. Argentina are doomed. Because most teams will simply put a box of 4 players players around him like Iceland did and unless he has an over the top game, he will be snuffed

Very good point. It makes easy to defend against him and the whole team in general. Sticking DiMaria to the left side is wrong too, there is too little movement. Mascherano and Biglia is a terrible CM pairing so the ball is moving at a snail's pace

 

[mariachi-19]

Ronaldo is my favourite ever United player and I think he's the better player at the moment, but I'd say Ronaldo would have struggled against a cohesive unit like the Iceland side and Messi would have had much more space against Spain. That being said, Ronaldo was phenomenal against Spain and I don't think any player will have a better game in the tournament. Just worth pointing out that it's not easy to have a stellar game against a team that defends brilliantly on the day.

Im just on the wind up to the newbie members

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Very good point. It makes easy to defend against him and the whole team in general. Sticking DiMaria to the left side is wrong too, there is too little movement. Mascherano and Biglia is a terrible CM pairing so the ball is moving at a snail's pace

Indeed. For me he should employ one holding player, play a playmaker or a Di Maria in front of the deeper midfield pair, then hand Messi a free role in attack to finish off moves like CR7 does for Portugal. Its too much to ask him to make things happen whilst still being the go to man for goals. Few players in history could do that like Platini, Maradona or Pele used to.


Id line em up either like this:

3 - 5 - 2 with Messi in a twin strike force

Caballero - Otamendi Mascherano Rojo - Biglia - Salvio Banega Di Maria Tagalifico - Aguero Messi
Or this:
Caballero - Salvio Otamendi Rojo Tagalifico - Mascherano Banega - Messi Di Maria Dybala - Aguero

 

[MDFC Manager]

Messi will have been Spanish player of the year nine times when he inevitably wins it for 2017-18. Ronaldo has won it once. Messi has dominated Spanish football for a decade.

Wow, what an absolute clusterfeck of a post! Which I thought was a one-off, and then I read this:

All of that to pretend you never said Bale was better than Ronaldo. Here's the freaking quote...



This was one week ago

I didn't reply to you because you're incapable of making a post with less than 30 lines and it was obviously not worth replying to since you were arguing crazy shit like you always do in this thread. So instead of arguing with you I'll just make a @wub1234 genius compilation of some of the most batshit crazy things you've posted.















This post before last night's performance is just so beautiful



This one during yesterday's performance even more so...



Keep going and I'll make a book out of these.

Wow @wub1234 How you do not have an appropriate tagline, I dont know

 

[MDFC Manager]

So is it true that Messi picks the Argentina side or is it just a rumour?

Apparently he's the reason why Icardi wasn't selected for the WC. He's a massive prick if all this is true, and makes the argument that some make (Portugal have a better balanced team) completely redundant.

 

[bk1991]

If it is a question of talent and technical ability then Messi is inarguably the better player. However football isn't only about that.

Ronaldo's drive to improve, tremendous mental strength and cast-iron will to win elevate him to a level above Messi.

Put it this way if I was selecting a team to play the Martians for the fate of the earth I would take Ronaldo over Messi in a heartbeat.

 

[Revan]

So is it true that Messi picks the Argentina side or is it just a rumour?

Well, we cannot know it for sure, but the fact that multiple managers have refused to call Icardi, and we know that Messi doesn't like Icardi cause he is friend with Maxi, says it all. Of course, no one is going to accept it right now.

Additionally, Dybala isn't playing cause he occupies the same space as Messi and the way to make it work is to put Messi on the right, but he actually doesn't want to play there which essentially means that their second/third best player doesn't play.

 

[Godfather]

If it is a question of talent and technical ability then Messi is inarguably the better player. However football isn't only about that.

Ronaldo's drive to improve, tremendous mental strength and cast-iron will to win elevate him to a level above Messi.

Put it this way if I was selecting a team to play the Martians for the fate of the earth I would take Ronaldo over Messi in a heartbeat.

Pretty much.

 

[Moby]

All of that to pretend you never said Bale was better than Ronaldo. Here's the freaking quote...



This was one week ago

I didn't reply to you because you're incapable of making a post with less than 30 lines and it was obviously not worth replying to since you were arguing crazy shit like you always do in this thread. So instead of arguing with you I'll just make a @wub1234 genius compilation of some of the most batshit crazy things you've posted.















This post before last night's performance is just so beautiful



This one during yesterday's performance even more so...



Keep going and I'll make a book out of these.

Incredible.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Perhaps history of football only. Tennis has a similar (if not bigger) individual rivalry going on.

Tennis just isn’t big enough. And there’s definitely more people will say federer

 

[mariner85]

I think this is CR7's biggest achievement yet.

Getting even with Messi in the poll here at Redcafe.

I'm a big Ronaldo fan and I never thought I would see the day that would happen.

 

[wub1234]

This is just a little reminder of how far ahead Messi is of Ronaldo.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/05/0...n-lionel-messi-and-every-other-la-liga-player

The Argentine leads La Liga in goals, assists, long-range goals, chances created, dribbles, and...just about everything else.

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-...sis-free-kick-record-absolutely-eye-watering/

Impressively, the goal marked Messi’s third converted free-kick of 2017, and the 31st of his career.

Cristiano Ronaldo, on the other hand, has only scored three free-kicks since 2015, highlighting the vast difference in quality from dead ball situations between the two.

Put in simpler terms – if Barcelona’s main man missed his next 241 free-kicks he would have the same free-kick to goal ratio as Ronaldo (who has a mere 1.3% free-kick conversion rate).

La Liga Winner

2009 – 10: Barcelona

2010 – 11: Barcelona

2011 – 12: Real Madrid

2012 – 13: Barcelona

2013 – 14: Atletico Madrid

2014 – 15: Barcelona

2015 – 16: Barcelona

2016 – 17: Real Madrid

2017 – 18: Barcelona

Barcelona 6 – 2 Real Madrid

Copa del Rey Winner

2009 – 10: Sevilla

2010 – 11: Real Madrid

2011 – 12: Barcelona

2012 – 13: Atletico Madrid

2013 – 14: Real Madrid

2014 – 15: Barcelona

2015 – 16: Barcelona

2016 – 17: Barcelona

2017 – 18: Barcelona

Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid

Spanish Super Copa Winer

2009 – 10: Barcelona

2010 – 11: Barcelona

2011 – 12: Barcelona

2012 – 13: Real Madrid

2013 – 14: Barcelona

2014 – 15: Atletico Madrid

2015 – 16: Athletic Bilbao

2016 – 17: Barcelona

2017 – 18: Real Madrid

Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid

Spanish Player of the Year

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi

2010 – 11: Lionel Messi

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi

2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Lionel Messi

2015 – 16: Antoine Griezmann

2016 – 17: Sergio Ramos

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi

Messi 6 – 1 Ronaldo

Adidas Power Rankings Best Player

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2010 – 11: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2013 – 14: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2014 – 15: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2015 – 16: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 5th)

2016 – 17: Neymar (Messi was marginally 2nd, Ronaldo 5th)

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo (Messi finished ahead of Ronaldo every season)

Pichichi Trophy

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi

2010 – 11: Cristiano Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi

2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Cristiano Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Luis Suarez

2016 – 17: Lionel Messi

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi

Messi 5 – 3 Ronaldo (worth nothing that Messi doesn't play as a forward now!)

Total Assists in all Competitions

2009 – 10: Messi 11 – 7 Ronaldo

2010 – 11: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Messi 29 – 15 Ronaldo

2012 – 13: Messi 15 – 12 Ronaldo

2013 – 14: Messi 14 – 14 Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Messi 27 – 21 Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo

2016 – 17: Messi 16 – 12 Ronaldo

2017 – 18: Messi 18 – 8 Ronaldo

Total: Messi 176 – 119 Ronaldo

Total Goals Scored

2009 – 10: Messi 47 – 33 Ronaldo

2010 – 11: Messi 53 – 53 Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Messi 73 – 60 Ronaldo

2012 – 13: Messi 60 – 55 Ronaldo

2013 – 14: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Messi 58 – 61 Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo

2016 – 17: Messi 54 – 42 Ronaldo

2017 – 18: Messi 45 – 44 Ronaldo

Total: Messi 472 – 450 Ronaldo

El Clasico Matches During this Time

Played 31, Barcelona Won 14, Real Madrid Won 7, Draws 10

Goals Scored: Messi 20 – 18 Ronaldo

El Clasico in La Liga and Champions League Only

Played 19, Barcelona Won 11, Real Madrid Won 4, Draws 4

Goals Scored: Messi 13 – 8 Ronaldo

Guardian Top Footballer in the World

2012 Lionel Messi

2013 Lionel Messi

2014 Cristiano Ronaldo

2015 Lionel Messi

2016 Cristiano Ronaldo

2017 Lionel Messi

2018 Lionel Messi

Messi 5 – 2 Ronaldo

In Favour of Ronaldo

- He has won one more CL winners medal than Messi;

- He has scored more goals in the Champions League (although he has a worse goals-per-game ratio than Messi);

- He played in Portugal's Euro 2016 win (although I think anyone who watched the Copa America would inevitably conclude that Messi's performances were far better, as they were in the last World Cup);

- Ronaldo just scored his first ever goal in the World Cup, and actually netted a free-kick the other day as well. So we can all blow that out of all proportion. He only needs to score about his next 27 consecutive free-kicks to catch up with Messi's ratio of success now. He's in with a pretty good chance, as he hadn't scored from his previous 45 in tournament play.

 

[hellhunter]

Jesus, are you his mum?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

That's a tad embarrassing.

 

[SalfordRed18]

This is just a little reminder of how far ahead Messi is of Ronaldo.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/05/0...n-lionel-messi-and-every-other-la-liga-player

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-...sis-free-kick-record-absolutely-eye-watering/

La Liga Winner

2009 – 10: Barcelona

2010 – 11: Barcelona

2011 – 12: Real Madrid

2012 – 13: Barcelona

2013 – 14: Atletico Madrid

2014 – 15: Barcelona

2015 – 16: Barcelona

2016 – 17: Real Madrid

2017 – 18: Barcelona

Barcelona 6 – 2 Real Madrid

Copa del Rey Winner

2009 – 10: Sevilla

2010 – 11: Real Madrid

2011 – 12: Barcelona

2012 – 13: Atletico Madrid

2013 – 14: Real Madrid

2014 – 15: Barcelona

2015 – 16: Barcelona

2016 – 17: Barcelona

2017 – 18: Barcelona

Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid

Spanish Super Copa Winer

2009 – 10: Barcelona

2010 – 11: Barcelona

2011 – 12: Barcelona

2012 – 13: Real Madrid

2013 – 14: Barcelona

2014 – 15: Atletico Madrid

2015 – 16: Athletic Bilbao

2016 – 17: Barcelona

2017 – 18: Real Madrid

Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid

Spanish Player of the Year

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi

2010 – 11: Lionel Messi

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi

2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Lionel Messi

2015 – 16: Antoine Griezmann

2016 – 17: Sergio Ramos

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi

Messi 6 – 1 Ronaldo

Adidas Power Rankings Best Player

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2010 – 11: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2013 – 14: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2014 – 15: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

2015 – 16: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 5th)

2016 – 17: Neymar (Messi was marginally 2nd, Ronaldo 5th)

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)

Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo (Messi finished ahead of Ronaldo every season)

Pichichi Trophy

2009 – 10: Lionel Messi

2010 – 11: Cristiano Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Lionel Messi

2012 – 13: Lionel Messi

2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Cristiano Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Luis Suarez

2016 – 17: Lionel Messi

2017 – 18: Lionel Messi

Messi 5 – 3 Ronaldo (worth nothing that Messi doesn't play as a forward now!)

Total Assists in all Competitions

2009 – 10: Messi 11 – 7 Ronaldo

2010 – 11: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Messi 29 – 15 Ronaldo

2012 – 13: Messi 15 – 12 Ronaldo

2013 – 14: Messi 14 – 14 Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Messi 27 – 21 Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo

2016 – 17: Messi 16 – 12 Ronaldo

2017 – 18: Messi 18 – 8 Ronaldo

Total: Messi 176 – 119 Ronaldo

Total Goals Scored

2009 – 10: Messi 47 – 33 Ronaldo

2010 – 11: Messi 53 – 53 Ronaldo

2011 – 12: Messi 73 – 60 Ronaldo

2012 – 13: Messi 60 – 55 Ronaldo

2013 – 14: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo

2014 – 15: Messi 58 – 61 Ronaldo

2015 – 16: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo

2016 – 17: Messi 54 – 42 Ronaldo

2017 – 18: Messi 45 – 44 Ronaldo

Total: Messi 472 – 450 Ronaldo

El Clasico Matches During this Time

Played 31, Barcelona Won 14, Real Madrid Won 7, Draws 10

Goals Scored: Messi 20 – 18 Ronaldo

El Clasico in La Liga and Champions League Only

Played 19, Barcelona Won 11, Real Madrid Won 4, Draws 4

Goals Scored: Messi 13 – 8 Ronaldo

Guardian Top Footballer in the World

2012 Lionel Messi

2013 Lionel Messi

2014 Cristiano Ronaldo

2015 Lionel Messi

2016 Cristiano Ronaldo

2017 Lionel Messi

2018 Lionel Messi

Messi 5 – 2 Ronaldo

In Favour of Ronaldo

- He has won one more CL winners medal than Messi;

- He has scored more goals in the Champions League (although he has a worse goals-per-game ratio than Messi);

- He played in Portugal's Euro 2016 win (although I think anyone who watched the Copa America would inevitably conclude that Messi's performances were far better, as they were in the last World Cup);

- Ronaldo just scored his first ever goal in the World Cup, and actually netted a free-kick the other day as well. So we can all blow that out of all proportion. He only needs to score about his next 27 consecutive free-kicks to catch up with Messi's ratio of success now. He's in with a pretty good chance, as he hadn't scored from his previous 45 in tournament play.

You'd give your life before admitting Ronaldo is better than Messi, wouldn't you?

 

[Moby]

Jesus Christ. We've found a more obsessive version of @Cal? , as unbelievable as that sounds.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I had no idea that The Guardian decided who the best player in the world is. Good to know.

 

[Green_Red]

Right now, Ronaldo for me. It used to be Messi but you cant deny Ronaldos contribution and achievements. Lets see what happens over this tournament and the next couple of years.