But look at the world class talent he's surrounded by. Ibrahim Affelay for one.
This goal is amazing but reals heads had gone as soon as messi got his first.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
But look at the world class talent he's surrounded by. Ibrahim Affelay for one.
This goal is amazing but reals heads had gone as soon as messi got his first.
Ssshhh. You are being far too objective for this thread.
Cal? has moaned somewhere in this thread about people wrongfully considering dribbling and passing as most important attributes for attacking players. Well, just take a look at top 3 golden ball players historically from its inception, and count how many "passers" and "dribblers" are there, and on the other hand how many attacking players who excelled at heading and off the ball movement. It should paint a pretty good picture of which attributes were considered more important in attacking players at least.
A few seasons ago Messi played deeper for a while and he became more of a playmaker. The way he was playing was different, he stopped being the immense goal machine and started controlling the game more. I wonder if that was because he had lost a yard of pace or because of the changing managerial tactics and what they asked of him.
When Neymar and Suarez arrived, all the attacks stopped being the responsibility of Messi. If his role didn't change then I wonder how much more productive he would have been.
I say this because Ronaldo has been the focal point of Madrid's attack for years now. Everything was fed into him. Yes he created goals for himself but a lot of his goals were tap ins from his brilliant movement and positioning.
Messi is the more complete player of the two, for a while now Ronaldo has struggled to go past people like he used to. Messi can go past players with ease and creates opportunities for himself a lot more than Ronaldo. Messi has been dragging Barcelona for a while now and without him they would struggle to compete with Madrid. I wonder how good they would both do if they swapped teams. I dare say Messi would thrive better than Ronaldo, Ronaldo wouldn't be able to rely on others to assist him as much.
Marcelo, Modric, Benzema work their socks off to feed Ronaldo. He knows this, hence the reason he moaned about Madrid selling Ozil because of how much Ozil assisted him. He has crazy numbers because he is a very selfish player who demands the ball for every opportunity.
What I am saying is that Ronaldo concentrates on getting goals as much as possible to have a chance of competing with Messi. He sacrificed his all round game just so he could rack up insane goal numbers. If Messi was pushed forward to be the main striker and everything was fed into him, and he only cared about goals, then in my opinion I reckon he would outscore Ronaldo every time.
Ronaldo is a selfish goalscorer who wants all the personal glory. Messi is a playmaker, goal scorer, assist merchant and can still dazzle defenders with his dribbling better than anyone in the world. Ronaldo has been just a goalscorer for about 5 years. Messi is a much more complete attacking player.
People may disagree but this is just my way of looking at the difference between them.
When Neymar and Suarez arrived, all the attacks stopped being the responsibility of Messi. If his role didn't change then I wonder how much more productive he would have been.
I say this because Ronaldo has been the focal point of Madrid's attack for years now. Everything was fed into him. Yes he created goals for himself but a lot of his goals were tap ins from his brilliant movement and positioning.
Messi is the more complete player of the two, for a while now Ronaldo has struggled to go past people like he used to. Messi can go past players with ease and creates opportunities for himself a lot more than Ronaldo. Messi has been dragging Barcelona for a while now and without him they would struggle to compete with Madrid. I wonder how good they would both do if they swapped teams. I dare say Messi would thrive better than Ronaldo, Ronaldo wouldn't be able to rely on others to assist him as much.
Marcelo, Modric, Benzema work their socks off to feed Ronaldo. He knows this, hence the reason he moaned about Madrid selling Ozil because of how much Ozil assisted him. He has crazy numbers because he is a very selfish player who demands the ball for every opportunity.
What I am saying is that Ronaldo concentrates on getting goals as much as possible to have a chance of competing with Messi. He sacrificed his all round game just so he could rack up insane goal numbers. If Messi was pushed forward to be the main striker and everything was fed into him, and he only cared about goals, then in my opinion I reckon he would outscore Ronaldo every time.
Ronaldo is a selfish goalscorer who wants all the personal glory. Messi is a playmaker, goal scorer, assist merchant and can still dazzle defenders with his dribbling better than anyone in the world. Ronaldo has been just a goalscorer for about 5 years. Messi is a much more complete attacking player.
People may disagree but this is just my way of looking at the difference between them.
Agree that Messi is better passer and playmaker, but Ronaldo assist and crossing has been criminally underrated here. In fact he is such a good crosser of the ball, and his total no. of assists over past few years is among one of the highest in Europe. It's just that he doesn't catch people eyes the same way Messi does his dribbling and through balls.
Messi has been dragging Barca all on his own whereas Real will be just fine with Ronaldo kind of falls apart given Real's results the beginning of this season with him wrongfully suspended.
Remember that game well, at that moment when he picked up the ball i was telling my mate the Madrid players better take him out as he will run through them and score. Great goal, esp in the circumstances of the game.
You're entitled to your opinion, plenty of people disagree.
Worst thread on the Caf
You could probably say this about most topics on forums in fairness but does anyone actually change their opinion on Messi vs Ronaldo based on this thread?
We're 118 pages in and, I'd bet for the most part that the vast majority of people who are posting in this thread have already decided their preference before entering.
Seems to be a slinging match with no real end.
We're 118 pages in and, I'd bet for the most part that the vast majority of people who are posting in this thread have already decided their preference before entering.
Seems to be a slinging match with no real end.
I know about people who changed from Ronaldo to Messi
I actually know two R. Madrid fans that think Messi is simply better player and have no problem admitting that, but I'd struggle to find a single Barcelona supporter (not that I know many) who think that Ronaldo is better.
Last edited:
Some of the things you have to do to compare Messi vs Ronaldo
Arbitrary stats are your friend
(This is not a personal hit at Cal, this is happening all over the media, Reddit and other forums)
Nitpicking much? We never heard of this "CL knockout stages" in 10 years, but it starts being important now, why? Because as Cal emphasizes "ONE season?" has marked the difference here.
So, why this spam now? This comes with a trick, when we see posts about "crucial" KO rounds in the CL it takes into account QF, SF and Finals, no R16, and this takes off from last year, why?
Before January 07' (when no one talked about this) their full Knockout stages goals were
Messi: 36 goals
Ronaldo: 44 goals
"Ok, no problem, Ronaldo still wins" we'd say, but the difference before last season was less that 10 goals (with a player two years older)
Why is this argument starting now, well two clear points.
This happened in one season
Suddenly, Cristiano Ronaldo (or how the reverse-Cals of the world would call him, Kevin Phillips) has won a 10 goal lead over Messi (in ONE season) in the "crucial" KO stages of CL.
But how could we stretch this 9 KO goal lead Ronaldo got this last season to the stretch of almost doubling it? Well, that's easy.
We can arbitrarily decide that R16 doesn't exist, because no one likes a flat-track bully that puts 21 goals in R16 vs teams like Stuttgart, Arsenal or Leverkusen, this obviously doesn't have anything to do with Ronaldo scoring less in the same round, we also know APOEL or Galatasaray in QF are tougher matchups than Arsenal in R16 so this is totally fair.
So, the TL;DR of every debate were you have to elevate Ronaldo to Messi's height is basically this
"Messi is the better goalscorer because one year he scored 91 goals, Ronaldo never came close" -> That's not right, because you know in a single season even Kevin Phillips outperformed RVN
"Ronaldo is the best goalscorer because he's the player with most goals in KO/crucial™ UCL stages" -> Disregard that the stats more people use are skewed to ignore R16 and this lead was mostly achieved in a single "Kevin Phillips" season.
Why'd you have to start forging stats leaving out R16 goals and pushing a certain narrative just after a player had the most freakish season of his life, while totally disregarding the other freak season his rival had? Because you can't sustain any kind of fair argument around the subject that Ronaldo is objectively superior to Messi, nothing else
That's a great post. This debate along with every other comparison between player X and Y has always been about cherry picking and/or twisting the argument that favors whichever player people think is better and you're spot on with every word here. (except that you imply that there are tougher matchups than Arsenal in the R16, which we all know is complete BS)
Probably true
I know a few who've switched to Ronaldo in the last couple of seasons.
I think ultimately, the kid that makes fools of everyone on the dribble is an earlier pick at the park than the goal-hanger with lead in his boots.
I changed my opinion. I used to think Ronaldo was better until I watched them both more.
It is a waste of time debating who is better on a United forum. Most united fans are biased and will say Ronaldo. If you asked people who is better except from United, Madrid, Portugal, Barcelona and Argentina fans then most people will say Messi. Most people I know who don't support United say Messi.
I dont understand how people can say Ronaldo when you look at it without bias. Messi and Ronaldo are very close in goal scoring. But the difference is that Messi is more creative. More goals and assists combined than Ronaldo in more than 100 less games.
A lot of argentinians stand with Ronaldo and hate Messi.
Because they also compare Messi to Maradona, and here people are kinda special with those things....
Because they also compare Messi to Maradona, and here people are kinda special with those things....
People are wrong here, for Messi to be a GOAT needs to lead Argentina like Maradona did because just winning the WC with another players performing is not the same, now comparing with CR yes even we know Argentina (43 million people) has better players than Portugal (10 million) and at the end who has the cup wins.
I always liked players who entertain like Best, Maradona and Ronaldinho, CR did when was younger, messi still does but both never reached the same level of the previous 3.
I always liked players who entertain like Best, Maradona and Ronaldinho, CR did when was younger, messi still does but both never reached the same level of the previous 3.
The fine lines are so marginal that international tournaments should count for a hell of a lot imo.
Its not like Messi plays for Ireland here, he has played alongside incredible players for Argentina.
Ronaldo is a freak world cup win away from having the greatest 3 years of any athlete in sporting history.
Its not like Messi plays for Ireland here, he has played alongside incredible players for Argentina.
Ronaldo is a freak world cup win away from having the greatest 3 years of any athlete in sporting history.
He really isn't though. What has he done in these 3 years that Messi hasn't done similar too? Yes he has won back to back Champions league titles and the Euro's. Let's look at it clearer.
Messi won the treble in 2009, 2 years later he won the double, a year after he had scored 91 goals in a calendar year.
Fair enough Ronaldo and Portugal won the Euro's, but Ronaldo played no part in the final. When Madrid won the Champions league in 2016, it was Ramos who was the deciding factor to get them to the final. He scored the opener and the winner against Athletico in the semi. If it wasn't for him they wouldn't have made it to the final.
So Ronaldo has won trophies and had a good 3 years but it wasn't all because of him. So no he hasn't had a better few years lately than Messi has ever had in the past.
Being more or less equal in terms of goals and assists over a prolonged time like Messi and Ronaldo makes them on par. They have been equally influential for their teams when not firing at all cylinders, and likewise have been the icing on the cake for arguably the best two teams in the last couple of decades. How to separate them - personal taste.
Madrid didn't play against Atletico (without an h) in the semis in 2016. You say Ramos was the deciding factor in sending them to the final in 2016. Why? I think you might be a bit confused there. Cristiano was injured for the semis and final, even missed the first leg of the semis vs City, he didn't perform as he usually does but without him Madrid wouldn't even be in the semis in the first place and just one year later he's showed what he can do at that stage when he's well physically.
What you said about Ramos you can easily say about Iniesta in 2009 or other players in other editions, no player can win titles alone not even Messi or Cristiano. Your posts in the last couple of pages are just a general trainwreck, double standards everywhere. Messi changed the way he plays because of 'losing a yard of pace and managerial changes', yet Ronaldo changed because 'he is a selfish goalscorer who wants all the personal glory', Ronaldo only scores because of Marcelo and Benzema but Messi's teammates have nothing to do with all the goals he's scored, etc.
When both are at their absolute best Messi is the best ever imo, Ronaldo has been the better of the two over the past 2 years or so though. Yes, Madrid has been far stronger than Barcelona during that time, but it is what it is.
Messi on occasion plays like he just doesn't care as much anymore, still probably the most naturally gifted footballer to grace the game though. This season (so far) I'd say Messi edges it between the two, we'll see how that pans out over the rest of the season.
Both are the two best ever imo and which one is better depends solely on their form and the players surrounding them.
Neither has won a World Cup, but it's once every 4 years, requires good coaching, cohesion and a feck ton of a luck. The game is far too advanced these days to expect individuals to lead a group of players they have little to no understanding with to World Cup glory. It's a game of margins, had Messi's teammates not been so wasteful in the final against Germany and the Copa, he'd have several NT trophies to his name. Yet it's once every 4 years, so those minor inches are much more costly than had they been done at club level.
Both overall have been quite underwhelming for their National teams given their club exploits, but Club football is now the pinnacle of the sport. International football is shite when discussing the quality of the actual game.
Messi on occasion plays like he just doesn't care as much anymore, still probably the most naturally gifted footballer to grace the game though. This season (so far) I'd say Messi edges it between the two, we'll see how that pans out over the rest of the season.
Both are the two best ever imo and which one is better depends solely on their form and the players surrounding them.
Neither has won a World Cup, but it's once every 4 years, requires good coaching, cohesion and a feck ton of a luck. The game is far too advanced these days to expect individuals to lead a group of players they have little to no understanding with to World Cup glory. It's a game of margins, had Messi's teammates not been so wasteful in the final against Germany and the Copa, he'd have several NT trophies to his name. Yet it's once every 4 years, so those minor inches are much more costly than had they been done at club level.
Both overall have been quite underwhelming for their National teams given their club exploits, but Club football is now the pinnacle of the sport. International football is shite when discussing the quality of the actual game.
Basically this. In terms of stats and individual success/achievements over the years, they are more or less equal. I'd say they both have their own strengths which shines more than the others (Messi is better dribbler, passer, playmaker and being more creative, while Ronaldo is better athletic, header, off ball movement and being more determined etc).
We as football fans will traditionally value dribbling, playmaking and passing higher, hence deep down most of us will rate Messi higher too.
But truth is each has their own strengths, which both work their way to great success in equal manner.
Last edited:
To be fair this season just starts, and Ronaldo has been suspended for majority of games so far. Only games he played he scored 1 against Barca, and 2 in CL, and 3 goals for Portugal in WC qualifiers. Thats about 6 goals in 4 games.
This argument from Ronaldo fans always amuses me because it's the only one he can sometimes win (and mostly he doesn't). Because Messi scores at the same rate as Ronaldo, and he's still Messi.
Doubt it.
I never said Ronaldo started badly though. Messi has been nothing short of immense as of late though, his Juve performance was something else.
Like I said, both have started well but so far this season I'd say Messi edges it. Wouldn't be surprised if Ronaldo ends the season stronger though.
I'm always saddened at how the player who's team is winning seems to get rated higher. Messi was better than Ronnie last season but Real Madrid won everything so the general public think Ronaldo had the better season. Ronaldo was dragging his arse for half of last the season. Finished strong in a competition Messi's team had been knocked out of and got all the plaudits.
I don't doubt it, if we had a poll in this thread then Ronaldo would have more votes. Why? Because we are on a Man United forum.
I'm pretty sure it'll be titled in favour of Messi and rightly so.
actually, we had a poll about that here when Ronaldo won CL and Euro. Messi comfortably won it despite not winning anything and vast majority of members being United supporters.
Last edited:
In response to the first part, my mistake it was the 2014 semi final where Ramos scored to equalise right at the end. Madrid then went on to win 4-1.
In response to the second part, Messi has always created a lot more goals than Ronaldo, Ronaldo has relied on being set up a lot more than Messi. Yes Ronaldo scores a lot of great goals but if you look at how many of his goals have actually been tap ins compared to Messi. Then there would be a large gap in goals.
Look, Ronaldo is a great player but he has been just a goal scorer for the last 5 years or so. Messi has matched his goal tally along with being a play maker and can dazzle defenses better than anyone. Ronaldo can barely go past people like he he did years ago.
If you left out goal and assist stats, then just by watching the game you would see Messi is better. Look at how good Zidane was without including stats, Messi looks better than Ronaldo at football without the stats.
Then when you include the stats he is beating Ronaldo also.
Ronaldo: Apps 720. Goals 532. Assists 172. Involved in 704 goals in 720 games.
Messi: Apps 589. Goals 515. Assists 194. Involved in 709 goals in 589 games.
So Messi has been involved in 5 more goals in 131 less games. If you include stats he is more productive. If you don't include stats you can see he influences games better also.
Ronaldo has scored 24 more penalties and has taken 24 more penalties. So if you include penalties from only the same amount they have taken to make it fairer then Messi has been involved in 29 more goals in 131 less appearances.
We can argue and debate all day but looking at the stats then Messi outshines Ronaldo by far and people call him the greatest goalscorer ever. How? When Messi has scored more goals if we don't include the amount of penalties more that Ronaldo has taken. Not to mention his assists.
Stats show the bigger picture and like I said before, Messi is better without including stats. But he is also better when we include stats. Looking at these facts, how can Ronaldo be better at all?
Well that's shows the picture even more. United fans think Messi is better. Imagine what the rest of the football world would think.
You mean, including Madrid fans and Portugal fans?
In general I do think Messi is better than Ronaldo. But there are few common flaws/contradictory points from your arguments I'd like to point out.
1. Messi has always create lot more goals than Ronaldo - yet the fact is their overall assists stats are like 194 vs 172, it's not by "that much" really.
2. Messi career stats are better - Yet you have conveniently ignore the fact the Ronaldo has started out his early career playing as pure winger for Sporting and us, while Messi has started his early career and always playing in more advance wing forward position in the strongest team and support by best midfielders of the generation. You are basically comparing few years of stats of forward vs midfielder.
3. Messi score more great goals on his own while Ronaldo score more tap-in and rely more on his teammates - on first glance there's nothing wrong in this statement, but it's worthy to point out the so-called "tap-in goals" are more often the result of great off ball movement - Messi tend to dribble pass players with ball on his feet, Ronaldo tend to get away from his marker and set himself up in great scoring position with the ball off his feet, theses are both unique set of skills and they are both very good at what they did
I've seen a few posts on here where some United fans wanted him to fail in Madrid.
I don't think playing for United carries so much weight here. Some do yes but majority will see it how it is and those who do favour Ronaldo do it for their own reasons. And moreover if you have been following the conversations, most do in fact think Messi is better overall even in this forum. I don't expect a landslide and rightly so.
- Status