That 1965 was supposed to say 1966, problems with typing in the phone
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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So they've gone from qualifying twice from 1967 to 2005, to qualifying every single time since then.
As for Euros, 2002 he was there and they made the final.
That's exactly the problem with the Messi fan brigade. The think of their opinions as facts.
Im not a Messi fan whatsoever. I just think he's easily better. I detest Real slightly less than Barca and like united so if anything I should be biased the other way around.
Have you not consistently changed your justification of why Ronaldo is better based on the past season or two for the past 7 years, just to keep Ronaldo ahead of Messi? It's fine to think Ronaldo is better if you want, but at least have a consistent reasoning.
It's not about Messi specifically Cal?. What's implicit when people say things like 'All you need to do is open your eyes and realise; Messi is simply better' or 'the best way to judge players is still to watch them play. To watch both players free of bias is to admit Messi is a better footballer...', is that he embodies what most people regard as the highest attributes in the game. No amount of stats are going to change that.
What you should be arguing is that Ronaldo's qualities and attributes should be regarded on an equal footing.
There's a lot more to football than when the ball is at your feet. With the ball at his feet Messi is better than Cristiano, there's no doubt about that
I don't have an issue with people who think Messi are better, only those who state their opinions as facts.
Example: 'All you need to do is open your eyes and realise; Messi is simply better'
Unlike Messi fans who go on and on about dribbling all the time, Ronaldo excels at different facets of the game.
That's exactly the problem with the Messi brigade, they state their opinions as facts, disregard every evidence that points the opposite direction.
Incidently, Messi scored 2 goals last night and everyone got all excited. Ronaldo just scored 2 and it's just business as usual
You cannot be fecking serious. LOOK AT THE OPPOSITION.
I mean even ignoring the opposition, the two goals also display the difference between the two players as a whole.
Dude come on, this is just wumming
You mean Juventus, the team Ronaldo scored 2 goals against in the CL final a few months ago?
Juve were also missing about half their team.
One goes past players with the ball, the other goes past them without the ball. The problem is people will see Cristiano's first as an easy tap in instead of seeing how he got away from the defender marking him.
If you want to talk about oppositions, you do realize that Ronaldo has far more CL knockout stage goals than Messi?
so you think Apoel would have given that juve team a game?
Their obsession with dribbling, perhaps Kotaro Tokuda is one of the best players in the world.
Did I say that?
Agreed.
You pondered why people were praising messi for scoring twice whilst just assuming business as usual for ronaldo. look at the difference in the goals, and look at the massive difference in the quality of the opposition and I'm sure you'll see why there was a bigger fuss over Messi.
I'm well aware of Ronaldo's incredible record in the knockout stages.
I was just pointing out how the goals they scored display how different they are, but also their main strengths. Ronaldo's movement off the ball in attacking positions is incredible, whereas Messi is the best player on the ball.
So, I never bothered with this thread, but it's basicly a million posts of everyone argueing with Cal? ?
Fair play
Fair play
Nothing to do with Europe being able to send ~8 teams from 1966 to 1978 to 13 since Spain 82
Modern world cups Portugal missed without Ronaldo
90' 2 points behind Belgium and Czechoslovakia
94' 1 point behind switzerland
98' 1 point behind Ukraine
Having in mind that from the 3 world cups they've qualified since, they went to the 2nd round in 10' and 14' (Ronaldo peak years) Ronaldo basically equals 2/3 points more for his team in the qualifying round, that's all.
And we're ignoring other things, like that in 10' you wouldn't face Bosnia in the second round, we'd be talking about Yugoslavia in the old system, or that you wouldn't get some teams like Israel, or Azerbaijan in your group pre-1998. You'd rather test your luck against the USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Easter/Western Germany before Israel, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic, San Marino, Azerbaijan, Georgia or Armenia?
Not only Portugal as a country is much stronger now than in the 70's and 80's, they're fighting for more spots against weaker teams. That's the biggest difference between their absence in the 70's and their perennial status now
Their obsession with dribbling, perhaps Kotaro Tokuda is one of the best players in the world.
Has that guy outscored Ronaldo in the same tournaments?, because if he's a great dibbler plus putting that kind of numbers yeah, he would be the best player in the world
South American qualifying has gone from 3 to 5 during that same time. In fact, Argentina will be looking rather unlikely to make it if they only had 3 places.Nothing to do with Europe being able to send ~8 teams from 1966 to 1978 to 13 since Spain 82
Modern world cups Portugal missed without Ronaldo
90' 2 points behind Belgium and Czechoslovakia
94' 1 point behind switzerland
98' 1 point behind Ukraine
Having in mind that from the 3 world cups they've qualified since, they went to the 2nd round in 10' and 14' (Ronaldo peak years) Ronaldo basically equals 2/3 points more for his team in the qualifying round, that's all.
And we're ignoring other things, like that in 10' you wouldn't face Bosnia in the second round, we'd be talking about Yugoslavia in the old system, or that you wouldn't get some teams like Israel, or Azerbaijan in your group pre-1998. You'd rather test your luck against the USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Easter/Western Germany before Israel, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic, San Marino, Azerbaijan, Georgia or Armenia?
Not only Portugal as a country is much stronger now than in the 70's and 80's, they're fighting for more spots against weaker teams. That's the biggest difference between their absence in the 70's and their perennial status now
Has that guy outscored Ronaldo in the same tournaments?, because if he's a great dibbler plus putting that kind of numbers yeah, he would be the best player in the world
Also, the point about qualification is to qualify, not to accumulate as many points as possible, you say Ronaldo made the difference of 2/3 points, but those 2/3 points are ALL THAT MATTERS in the end.
Portugal are much stronger country now than in the 90s? Are you sure about that? Figo, Rui Costa, Fernando Couto, Paulo Sousa all in their prime yet they failed to make WC98. How many of the rest of the current Portugal team are of that calibre?
South American qualifying has gone from 3 to 5 during that same time. In fact, Argentina will be looking rather unlikely to make it if they only had 3 places.
Also, the point about qualification is to qualify, not to accumulate as many points as possible, you say Ronaldo made the difference of 2/3 points, but those 2/3 points are ALL THAT MATTERS in the end.
Portugal are much stronger country now than in the 90s? Are you sure about that? Figo, Rui Costa, Fernando Couto, Paulo Sousa all in their prime yet they failed to make WC98. How many of the rest of the current Portugal team are of that calibre?
You have to steer away from my points, you out of arguments or something?
1) I wasn't talking about South America, we were talking about Ronaldo's impact on Portugal WC qualifying chances
2) And the point to qualify is to get as many points as possible, the difference between qualifying for the 90, 94 or 98 WC or not was 1'5 points on average for Portugal, since Ronaldo is their star, in their last WC qualifiers they went in as 2nd of their group, so if we're going to look at it roughly stat-wise like you did with their trajectory of failing to qualify more than twice for 40 years Portugal with Ronaldo has "conquered" a disadvantage of 1'5 points in average to qualify his team via 2nd round, is not like he took Luxembourg 10 points away from a WC and put them there.
3) I said 70's and 80's (years where they only qualified once), the difference between their 90's teams that failed and the latests ones I already measured in ~1'5 points.
It's rough, and really lazily done because I didn't take a look at the global wins/draws/loses of those teams, just a superficial look at how they performed globally (it doesn't even takes account of the games Ronaldo didn't play with Portugal in those qualifiers), but basically, that could be the magnitude of what Ronaldo brought to Portugal's quailifiers in the context you tried to use it.
And I won't get into high detail and look individually at games or try to go deeper into the full qualifier games of 6 different world cups because even if after two hours of research if I was able to come up with statistical fact of Ronaldo's worth to his NT, if it was lower than what you have decidied you probably wouldn't take it into account. Also it's almost impossible to exactly address it a certain value (like win shares in American sports) when we're comparing groups with "Germany, Ukraine, Armenia, N. Ireland and Albania" vs groups like "Slovakia, Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg"
So, I never bothered with this thread, but it's basicly a million posts of everyone argueing with Cal? ?
Fair play
Indeed
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Skorenzy
Dribbling, passing, shooting.....he's exceptional at pretty much everything an attacker could be judged on. He's arguably the best in the world in each of those 3 categories. Ronnie's great but has he done anything like even 5 minutes of that half an hour Messi passing compilation posted in the last few pages? No. Because he can't. You'll come back and say he's better at heading or something. Is that as important as passing. No
So if Messi has the stats in his favor?. What exactly is your reasoning that he is better than messi?.
It is possible to prefer Ronaldo style as a player, or think he would perform better in different systems. But to argue that dribbling, finishing and passing are not the most important thing for an attacker is absurd.
This and every similar thread in about the last 10 years. The man is relentless. Like his idol.So, I never bothered with this thread, but it's basicly a million posts of everyone argueing with Cal? ?
Fair play
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I'd 100% want cal defending me in court.
Nothing to do with Europe being able to send ~8 teams from 1966 to 1978 to 13 since Spain 82
Modern world cups Portugal missed without Ronaldo
90' 2 points behind Belgium and Czechoslovakia
94' 1 point behind switzerland
98' 1 point behind Ukraine
Having in mind that from the 3 world cups they've qualified since, they went to the 2nd round in 10' and 14' (Ronaldo peak years) Ronaldo basically equals 2/3 points more for his team in the qualifying round, that's all.
And we're ignoring other things, like that in 10' you wouldn't face Bosnia in the second round, we'd be talking about Yugoslavia in the old system, or that you wouldn't get some teams like Israel, or Azerbaijan in your group pre-1998. You'd rather test your luck against the USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Easter/Western Germany before Israel, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic, San Marino, Azerbaijan, Georgia or Armenia?
Not only Portugal as a country is much stronger now than in the 70's and 80's, they're fighting for more spots against weaker teams. That's the biggest difference between their absence in the 70's and their perennial status now
We always do the bare minimum to qualify, we weren't really worse than the teams we've finished behind for the last few years. Just lost a lot of points due to terrible coaching.
Take Cristiano out of the team and we're not stronger now than we were in the 80s at all... the average quality of the players is lower now. In the late 80s Porto and Benfica reached European Cup finals with teams full of portuguese players, we still came third in a group of Italy, Malta, Sweden and Switzerland in 88 and third again in 90' with a group of Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Luxembourg and Switzerland.
Since Cristiano has been around do you know what european national teams managed to make every single tournament? Portugal, Spain, France, Italy and Germany. That's not bad company and it shows qualification in Europe isn't as easy as you say.
Ronaldo is a much more complete finisher than Messi. Messi is arguably better inside the box, and his ability to dribble his way to good finishing positions helps him score an outrageous amount of goals, but Ronaldo is an exceptional striker inside the box with both feet and his head and has arguably the best off the ball movement I've ever seen. To top it off, he also has probably the most lethal long range shooting ever.
Most of those goals are the sort of thing other players dream of pulling off once in a lifetime. Ronnie has handfuls of them, some of which aren't even included in the video above. Messi doesn't have the power, shooting technique and accuracy to score those goals.
I think Messi all in all is the greatest of all time, but there's never been a better player than Ronaldo when it comes to simply fecking the ball off into the back of the net from any given situation.
Lethal long range shooting?
I think messi is just as good with his right as Ronaldo is with his left. Have you ever seen anyone chip the goalkeeper twice in the same game with either foot? Messi did it v Leverkusen.
Not two chips but the hattrick in Amsterdam with a right footed curler and a left footed chip weren't bad. 02:10
In that central area right outside of the box or just inside it Messi on his left foot is the best finisher that will ever exist, especially if it's after a cutback. Anywhere else I think Cristiano is better, with either foot or with the head.
This times infinity. I hate how movement is such an underrated part of the game.
Well, those are the 5 stronger teams/leagues in Europe so it doesn't strike me hard, we could only includo Belgium and sometimes Russia at the level of Portugal in the last 10 yeas.
Ronaldo is key in cementing Portugal's consistency for the last decade, I'm not trying to argue that, I'm just saying that it's not like he took Bulgaria or Eslovenia to a World Cup every 4 years. If Shevchenko could carry Ukraine's mediocre football to WC appearances then surely Cristiano can do the same and better, it's just that I'm not trying to get lost in the hyperbole of "Portugal were dreadful for half a century until a guy appeared and changed everything".
You'll say now "totally not comparable", right?.
I don't know which football have you seen, but there's plenty of players with the same danger in long distance, maybe Messi isn't there historically (more because he doesn't try a lot as it goes against his signature move than lack of long range shooting), but even in Real Madrid there's players I'd rather take the last 25+m shot in a final than Ronaldo, I rate Modric and Kroos more lethal than him, and let's see with Casemiro, if his last months have been a freak phenomenom or if he really has a cannon for a leg.
With Ronaldo and his screamers happens something similar to Roberto Carlos in his age, most of the time you don't see the dozens of balls they send 5 meters over the goal a couple times per game, but you surely are going to sit and watch 100 times the one time their shot goes in as it looks beautiful. If there's a reason why Ronaldo had one of the worst conversion rates of the European top scorers for years it surely was for his fondness to try long distance free kicks and shots from open play, no other player has shot as many times as Ronaldo from outside the box since he got to Real Madrid, I'd put money on that.
And then, we also had Adriano, who wasn't simply "shooting" the ball, he was mostly executing your goalkeeper
Not bad but easier to get the foot under as it had a slight bounce.
In 610 goals Ronaldo hasn't ever chipped the keeper with his right foot has he? Can't think off the top of my head
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