A bit of both?
Sub him after 60 mins if hes having a particularly poor day.
He pisses me off but i'd still want him on the pitch more often than not.
Harsh on young but ... long term i think its in our interest.
7
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
A bit of both?
Sub him after 60 mins if hes having a particularly poor day.
He pisses me off but i'd still want him on the pitch more often than not.
Harsh on young but ... long term i think its in our interest.
Yup, goals in the champions league don't matter. He's shit. 
Yup, goals in the champions league don't matter. He's shit.
Who exactly is saying he's shit? The guy isn't beyond criticism no matter how young or inexperienced he is.
You can brush it off as being Brugge, but those weren't exactly tap ins he scored and required top level quality to pull off.
And calling for Young to replace him, that would further put us back to being largely pedestrian in attack. With Young, Rooney and Mata, we'd have 3 players playing behind the striker seemingly unwilling to take runs behind the defence. Depay has helped Martial in making those passes a real threat in our attack again. Young is also 30, we've seen his top level, it is very good all round play, but the end product is statistically very low. We need to aim higher and I believe we are doing so by playing Depay regularly.
And calling for Young to replace him, that would further put us back to being largely pedestrian in attack. With Young, Rooney and Mata, we'd have 3 players playing behind the striker seemingly unwilling to take runs behind the defence. Depay has helped Martial in making those passes a real threat in our attack again. Young is also 30, we've seen his top level, it is very good all round play, but the end product is statistically very low. We need to aim higher and I believe we are doing so by playing Depay regularly.
I can completely understand if people feel that Memphis has to improve and criticize him for his current performances. But I can't agree with opinions that he should be used as a sub with Young or Pereira starting at all:
Firstly, Goals/Assists in European competition do matter - he hasn't just looked good against Brugge, he was also our best player against PSV. Does that not matter? If scoring against european teams was so easy, other players would also do that and hence comparison across all competition is best way to judge attacking talent. In fact using PL statistics is an arbitrary division given the quality levels in European games was the same if not better.
Second, if we had a Di Maria or other superstar being benched in favour of Memphis, these points would have made sense. But he is keeping out Young, who for all his efforts, is an average player. Young got 2 goals and 5 assists in the whole last season, which is not much different compared to Memphis' PL output. That is not accounting for the fact that Memphis also had a shot on post resulting in a goal against Southampton which he didn't get credit for. This is further not accounting for the fact that Memphis has usually been marked by 2-3 players whereas Young has been afforded much more space (partially due to the fact that he has often come on from bench). Young hardly performed when started in the first match against Spurs and there were desperate calls by fans to move Memphis to the wing. Pereira is likely to be even more inconsistent, and didn't really do well even against Ispwich, which is being considered beneath our level by some people here (not holding this against him - he is young, similar to Memphis).
Third, moving away from statistics, Memphis has clearly been one of our most important attacking player, even in the premier league. While Rooney has been poor, Mata can work best only when the penetration is provided somebody else. Remove Memphis and the quality of our attack would go down by a lot. I don't get how people can't see this.
Fourth, and most importantly, Memphis is clearly one for the future who should be given the space to grow (and he has been showing signs of progress). With a bit of pain, we could be set for a long time with a real quality player.
I know we have not been used to playing Cl qualifiers but it's rather strange to see the revisionism regarding Brugge after we thumped them in the second leg. The tie was possibly our biggest game of the season and Memphis produced 3 moments of quality after we had conceded an away goal. I think with him more than the stats people should look at the fact that he is shown that he is capable of producing quality out of nothing and at this age he is obviously going to be a bit inconsistent.
Yup, goals in the champions league don't matter. He's shit.
Seems to be the argument being made in Rooney's case.
The difference between his European and League performances has been enormous, but we faced much easier opponents in Champions League so far. The problem I see with Depay is he seems to be getting worse with each (EPL) game, maybe it’s in his head but I really don’t think putting so much pressure on him since day one in Manchester is working. He had in my opinion his worst game vs Sunderland, and it doesn’t get much easier. The assumption that if he did well against Brugge (very poor) and PSV (poor and we should’ve won easily) so he’s going to do it in the league is wrong IMO, although quite a popular one on the Caf.
I get your point on Di Maria. I’m actually more concerned about Pereira who to me looks like a better prospect than Memphis, but I admit I generally prefer his style.
There were calls to move Depay to the wing from day one, because he never really looked like a player who is comfortable in the middle.
But the most important is this part:
Well, I strongly disagree with you on that. I don’t think he has done much in the League games. His dribbling is almost non existent for somebody who was called a winger (I noticed people tend to call him “attacker” recently), his passing and close control is poor. He doesn’t cooperate with his teammates at all, the more he struggles the more he tries to do everything on his own.
What he truly is great at is movement and crossing, he’s also quite good at long distance shooting. Comparing that to Pereira who has much better close control, and is also excellent crosser I don’t think there’s much between them.
Memphis IMO isn’t the main reason why we are top of the league. I believe we would’ve done it without him. I believe he’s a talent, but maybe he isn’t ready to be a starter here.
He needs playing time obviously, I’m only questioning if he needs to start every game, especially as we have Young, Pereira and possibly Martial who can do a job on the left at least as good as him.
Well as LVG said previously in the press-conferences about Rooney that he scored 3 goals, it doesn't matter for him if it was in CL, in league cup or in PL, he scored them. The same goes for Depay. Someone has to score and create in non-PL games, they are as important. It is really unfair just to isolate the stats from the competition which is the worst stat-wise for a player and argue that he isn't good enough.
But to argue that based on the stats in the PL he should get dropped in PL or at least rested. You have to look why stats and displays in the PL are not as good as they are in other competitions. The oppositions usually double or even triple mark him, Sunderland started doing the same with Martial, which is for the player who is marked the worst nightmare but it is one of the best things which can happen for the other players. I am sure LVG saw that and he saw the addition space for the rest of players and he is happy with throwing Memphis in the first team because of that - double mark him and you will give space to the rest of the team or don't do it and he will do something - score or assist.
Still 1 assist and 1 goal is not so bad in the 7 games, especially when you think that he could easily have 2 goal more (chance against Sunderland and post against Southampton).
And the most important thing - you can't have players who will play in the CL and cups and not in the PL because in the PL they are not as good. It is simple for LVG, you are in the first team or you are not in the first team. We want consistency in our starting 11 so they know each other and can play as good as they can together and the most important thing we don't want to do is to change our starting 11 to much.
He also scored against PSV. Which was my point. He's scored in every competition he's played in and not just against whipping boys.
Pereira didn't do that well against Ispwich even though he showed excellent close control as you said. But I haven't seen Pereira enough to comment on whether he is a better prospect than Memphis (but would be glad if true as I really rate Memphis).
On our disagreement on Memphis' performance, I do think he has also shown the ability to dribble (of the Ronaldo/Bale type and not of the Nani type - which most of here are comparing him to), but he hasn't shown it enough times in the last couple of games. His first touch is also good but is inconsistent. But these should be fine as he adjusts to the PL. Having said that, I agree that his best attributes are his movement and passing that have helped us create a lot of openings.
I really think an attack of Young, Rooney, and Mata behind Martial would be very average (based on this season alone), and Martial would be left with too much to do on his own. For all his efforts, Young does not have the end product to make the difference. Mata, as I said, cannot provide penetration on his own as he cannot go past defenders. He is more of a finisher who can bring the additional quality in the box after the Martials and the Memphis of our team have created havoc and created space for others. And nothing needs to be said for Rooney unfortunately.
Edit: Also I doubt that we faced much easier opponents in Europe. PSV and Brugge are more difficult than Sunderland, etc. However PL, you have less space and time, which you have to adjust to. Some (like Martial) do it faster but some take time. See Fergie's letter to Cantona about Sheringham needing to adjust even though he came from a PL team just because teams up their game against United.
I've no problem with the guy, just don't think his current ability is as useful as Young's current ability. Seems odd to persist with him starting when Young was so consistently useful for us last season.
Do you guys think Young would have been in that position for the tap in against Sunderland? I don't think so. My point is one of Memphis' best qualities is his desire to score goals. The moment he saw the ball leave Blind's foot he was racing to the far post and it wasn't as if you could expect Mata to cushion it for him. He was racing cuz he sensed a chance might fall his way. Now that desire cannot be coached. That will see him score more than enough goals easily to share the goal scoring burden.
I do agree that he needs to improve his general play quite a bit but that's alright. Not everybody can take to the league like Martial has done. In any case his contributions against Brugee (even if it is only Brugge) were actually important ones, not like he score 2 goals at the end of a 5-0 rout.
I do agree that he needs to improve his general play quite a bit but that's alright. Not everybody can take to the league like Martial has done. In any case his contributions against Brugee (even if it is only Brugge) were actually important ones, not like he score 2 goals at the end of a 5-0 rout.
4 goals and 4 assists, he's looked brilliant and poor, but can't ask for much more from a 21 year old. So much potential and I hope we keep playing him, his positioning has already improved from the first week. Young had 4 goals and 6 assists last year in total so I think Memphis should keep starting. Plus his link up with Martial is very good. Not all signings start like Martial.
People have this problem with effective players. Depay is three times as effective as Young, just like Mata is. Depay and Mata are 1 in 3 goalscorers and produce more assists because they understand to get into good areas. We need those types of players with a question mark next to our strikers. Neither Young nor Pereira will contribute enough on that front for us.
I've seen more of Pereira and I like him, IMO his attributes are much better fit for van Gaal style than Memphis.
My point is I'm not impressed with his technique. Whatever you call it he has to improve on that matter, but I'm not sure it's about "adjusting to the league". It would be the same in every other top league.
What you mentioned about his dribbling style is what I was worried about before he came here - he seems to be reliant on speed and strength to get ahead of opposition players, what works two times better for counter attacking teams. I said he will struggle in possession based football where close touch, acceleration and agility are more important, and so far I've been proven right, unfortunately.
That's where we disagree. It's all about team performance - and I'm pretty sure we would see significant improvement if Young replaced Memphis.
You know why? At the moment we play with four strikers - Mata, Rooney, Martial and Memphis.
Most of the time Mata is recycling posession, and comes to life in the box. Rooney is fighting not to lose the Ball but if you hit him the right way, he might even score a goal. Martial is doing surprisingly well so far but we can't expect him to score and assist on regular basis. Memphis as we already have agreed gets into good positions, but other than that, I fail to see his contribution. I think we are much more threatening with Young because he's a winger, he works well with fullback, he contributes a lot to our general play way more than Memphis. But it seems most people want as many goalscorers as possible on the pitch. Add to that, Young is very unpopular player and you get why people will forgive Depay a lot.
Sunderland is the worst team in the league and Memphis struggled to make an impact other than a tap in (kudos for a good run).
Neither of them will score as many goals as Memphis that's for sure. But we might score more goals as a team with Young / Pereira playing ahead of him, which is my point.
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It's absolutely ridiculous that people are getting their knickers in a twist because some people are pointing out the obvious i.e his performances in the league haven't been very good so far. It does not mean that they are not supporting the team () or they think he's shite and should be sold or don't realize that he's still quite young. Pointless parroting "4 goals and 4 assists" every time some dares to criticize him doesn't help when it's his league form that's in question.
) or they think he's shite and should be sold or don't realize that he's still quite young. Pointless parroting "4 goals and 4 assists" every time some dares to criticize him doesn't help when it's his league form that's in question.Why on earth are people calling for Pereira over Depay? What's this based on exactly? Love pereira, think he's going to be a star for us but this is a little silly
I'm calling to give him a chance. Depay hasn't set high standards and I believe Pereira fits our style better.
*Waiting for the 4 and 4 post...*
The stats don't back that up.
4 in 4
Depay tore up the Dutch league, Pereira has been playing almost exclusively U21 football, to throw him in when our team is our just getting settled would be counter productive.
What stats?
He's closer in terms of style of play to current Ronaldo than that of young Ronaldo. He has done well so far considering he has only just arrived. I have no doubt that he'll be a top player in the future. Comparisons to Nani are simply untrue. Memphis is a wide forward who has a very good positional sense and finishing ability already and both will only get better. Nani was great on the ball but was never a proven goalscorer. Memphis will be a proven goalscorer.
1 assist in 8 appearances, poor output last season when we scored very few goals.
Young has a decent delivery and works hard, which is a great option to have from the bench, but he doesn't get into positions to hurt teams enough. Depay does, which is why he scores and assists more.
Here's my humble opinion on Memphis. He needs to continue pressing on, keep his head high BUT not try to always create for himself. If a player always tucks inside, how hard is that to defend. Look at highlights from goals scored on any given day throughout professional football, many come from wings beating the defense to the corner and getting a low cross or normal cross into the box. Why is Wayne struggling to score buckets of goals? One reason is because we attack up the left and Wayne is reduced to watching Memphis try to dribble past a defender and cut in, while ignoring runs by his teammates or 1-2 combos. In the last 2 games he's begun looking for Martial for combo passes.
Memphis is certainly a talent, but he has a lot of growing to do IMO. I've rated him a 5.0 in games on this site so far this season... I didn't see that until after the above post so I guess I've put my money where my mouth is... although 4 goals and 4 assists in 11 competitions ain't bad.
Memphis is certainly a talent, but he has a lot of growing to do IMO. I've rated him a 5.0 in games on this site so far this season... I didn't see that until after the above post so I guess I've put my money where my mouth is... although 4 goals and 4 assists in 11 competitions ain't bad.
I don't follow. Surely you are not talking about Young, who has 2 assists in less than 180 minutes?
Not sure he should start every game, he's bound to get burn out. Looks like he could do with a short break to be honest, a few sub appearances and then back into the side.
1 against Liverpool is all isn't it?
Surprising lack of @Gambit in this thread. I remember you bigging him up Marek Hamsik 2010-style in the Memphis transfer thread. What say you about his start?
My eagle eyes are on you.
My eagle eyes are on you.
Got one against Sunderland for Mata's goal.
Pretty laughable to count Youngs assist v Liverpool though. Martial did all the work.
He hasn't even played badly ffs. A few bad games, a few very good games. Mostly decent games. People were just expecting him to light up the league from the start, and that doesn't always happen. He's still been decent and worthy of starts though.
People on here are way too quick to judge wingers. 1 bad decision and they make their mind up, ignoring the good stuff he does. He's a winger. They're always going to be inconsistent and lose the ball now and then. Then with young, people dont expect him to have a big impact so when he does something positive people notice it more and it sticks in the mind more, compared to Memphis who they expect to do well and not have feck ups.
People on here are way too quick to judge wingers. 1 bad decision and they make their mind up, ignoring the good stuff he does. He's a winger. They're always going to be inconsistent and lose the ball now and then. Then with young, people dont expect him to have a big impact so when he does something positive people notice it more and it sticks in the mind more, compared to Memphis who they expect to do well and not have feck ups.
He's been good to watch, and statistically good. He could stay at this level for the whole year and that would be fine for his debut season. But I expect him to get steadily more and more effective until he's our key attacking outlet by April/May.
Took a hefty deflection did it not? Nobody seems to have counted it as his.
If you count that for him then you can add one to Depay for the Mata goal vs Southampton as well.
Looking forward to seeing him progress this season. Seems to be more effective in the champions league thus far, hopefully he can be a little more consistent in the league throughout the season. Always exciting seeing young talents blossom.
All things considering, he is a 21 year-old winger and has just moved to a massive club - he's going to be inconsistent.
I'm reserving my judgement on him until at least next season, it's only fair. Though it is unfortunate at the amount of criticism he is getting on here.
I'm reserving my judgement on him until at least next season, it's only fair. Though it is unfortunate at the amount of criticism he is getting on here.
He was always consistent and wasteful at PSV, people just obviously didn't watch him. What we saw at PSV though is he has the ability to make a game changing moment that not many others can, think of the goals against Brugge, he will have moments like that in the league soon.
If people get on his back too much about being wasteful, he will just end up getting the ball and passing it backwards like we used too, and nobody wants that. Yes he can improve, but that only happens with game time. No coincidence though that since he and Martial have linked up we've been scoring 3 goals on average.
He makes many good runs and movement that drags the defence around, sometimes that's more important than individual actions.
If people get on his back too much about being wasteful, he will just end up getting the ball and passing it backwards like we used too, and nobody wants that. Yes he can improve, but that only happens with game time. No coincidence though that since he and Martial have linked up we've been scoring 3 goals on average.
He makes many good runs and movement that drags the defence around, sometimes that's more important than individual actions.
Bingo. Also, in most games so far he's been drawing 2 defenders on him whenever he gets the ball or is about to - that creates a lot more space for the likes of Martial to get in behind.
More than happy with his start. He's not playing to about 60% of what he's capable of and yet is still making a great contribution. Once he gets settled, figures out LVG's philosophy (which is another consideration nobody talks about) and gets up to speed everyone will look back at these early months and realise it was him bedding in.
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