But equally Casemiro and Eriksen were a clear step up from the two of them that first season.
We finally started to control the ball.
Then the legs went.
Mcfredinay
- Thread starter Adam-Utd
- Start date
But equally Casemiro and Eriksen were a clear step up from the two of them that first season.
We finally started to control the ball.
Then the legs went.
Getting rid was the right move, no doubt. There was a certain irony to it, thats also true but we would have had to extend Freds contract to keep him and with all the scrutiny, I think, we've done the right thing. I think, ETH wouldn't have been able to get a tune out of him anyway. About McTominay, I have no idea why he gets lumped in with Fred when it is about intensity. As if this guy was some sort of battle horse ready to go into the abyss. No doubt, he wasn't a non-factor like Eriksen but he also wasn't anything of note. Another player that has now deal with the career he had because at his home club, nobody was competent enough to make a decision about what his best position was. Even worse, the people who tried made wrong decisions.
So odd that the trip to memory lane already reached McFred. In a scenario, where we wish for former players to be there, aren't there like hundreds that should come before them?
I always liked Fred. I defended him on here a lot (yeah, I’ve been a newbie for about seven years now - embarrassingly ). Not a world beater by any means, but I always knew he would put in a shift and make himself known.
Fergie would have used him well.
Fergie would have used him well.
Last edited:
I think McTominay was a decent player that took a lot of criticism without kicking up much of a fuss. Never cried to media that he was being bullied. Plus I couldn’t see him storming down the tunnel like Zirkzee did yesterday. Of course he never played that bad either. Not good enough for what we aspire to be but better than what we currently have.
I'd say that's part of the reason we ended up there. we've become the club that's satisfied with mediocrity like we're fecking west ham now and look where it's got us
Greatest thread title in caf lore. Nicely done!
'The whole cafe' did not. Plenty of us recognised what Fred bought to the table and that he'd be a good squad player, especially once he finally started getting played in the correct position in his last 18 months here. The 'critics' did outnumber the 'fans' (for want of better terms), but mostly they were just much more vocal in pointing out every fault while ignoring the good.
Fred spent the majority of his time here being played out of position, basically being used in a way that shone a spotlight on his weaknesses while limiting how effective his strengths could be. Despite that, he still had numerous periods where he was our best midfielder. That was more an indictment on our other midfield options, but it showed Fred was capable of doing a job even if he was inconsistent. And let's be honest, there wasn't really a player in the squad who wasn't inconsistent. Once Rangnick then ETH finally started playing him higher up the field (where it was blatantly obvious that he should always have been played) that inconsistency declined and we started seeing good Fred more often. He wasn't perfect and ideally wouldn't have been a starter, but he clearly was a good squad player.
Fred was 30 and his all-action style of play may lead him to decline early, which we may be seeing as he picked up a couple of injuries last season (he's been fine the last four months however). Due to that I wasn't massively against selling him, but it was always going to be harder to replace him than people made out, and so far I think it's clear we would have been better off keeping. I will never understand ETH selling him last season then immediately moving to a formation that he was significantly more suited to than any other midfielder in the squad (then again, I will never understand what ETH was trying to do with that formation in the first place).
Scott's a different story, as we got a decent fee and he 'should' have been a lot easier to replace. As a midfielder, he was average at basically everything at best. As an attacker he was a decent goal threat, but otherwise was even worse than he was as a midfielder. Somehow we've just failed to replace him properly.
Last edited:
why are we talking about McFred again? 
Manchester United are sitting above the relegation zone in January.why are we talking about McFred again?
Because in here, players get better the less they play or the longer they have leftwhy are we talking about McFred again?
And the further we drop down the table afterwards with their immediate replacements.
They were both shite and were rightly moved on.
It's like groundhog day on here.why are we talking about McFred again?
Years of moaning about players, then suddenly we sold them "too early".
Welbeck the most annoying example, but McFred are growing to rival it.
Each signing becomes worse than the last and so the standard keeps dropping. I don't want McFred back, I want Carrick and Herrera from 2013.
I wish we still had McTominay 
Ah Herrera. I remember when he felt quite a mediocrity!
Yeh, Fred would probably do alright in this high energy system. A better option than Case or Erickson at closing down the opposition. Along side Ugarte would give us some solidity until things tick over and new additions are brought in.
Here we go again, yearning for players who were crap for different reasons to the crap we have now
I don’t he was garbage really.I wish we still had McTominay
In the past 10 years
Lukaku, Smalling, Blind, Di Maria, Sancho, Greenwood, Herrera and DDG. These are players that we got rid of that went on to give better output for another team. Then there is a list of players that we got rid of but replaced them with players who offered inferior output.
that’s where McT and Fred come in. Along with Rafael, Nani etc.
Right now there is an overreaction about binning the whole squad and replacing them with new players, guess what it’s not gonna be that easy because we struggle to identify the problem. Our main one is central midfield. This makes the entire team dysfunctional. Look at the difference when we added Mainoo against Newcastle. What we need is 3 solid midfielders but so far we have 2(Mainoo and Urgate) who hardly played together. What we need is to add 2 more unless Martinez can play there.
Once that problem is sorted then you can assess the quality of our attackers. Left wing we need to sign a player there because I’m not convinced about Garnacho anymore and Rashford is on his way out. So basically sign 2 midfielders, 1 striker and 1 LW and we are in business. Stop wasting money signing CB and that aren’t a clear upgrade on Maguire
This. I guess it doesn’t help that their replacements haven’t looked like an improvement either but it doesn’t detract from the fact that moving them on was the right call.
It still blows my mind that we finished 2nd with that midfield and also nearly won the EL a few weeks later. Protected by the rapid legs of Maguire and Lindelöf no less! It shouldn't be possible.
Agree with everything you said there.
We had forwards who weren't lower league level back then.
The right call but a shame the club is not capable of getting top players in who actually improve our squad
Yeah, it started with Woodwards "Disneyland" quote, which symbolized the type of player we were looking to attract and the type of culture it would ultimately build at the club. Alas, hoping those days are long gone. We won't always get signings spot on, but as long as the mentality is correct, it'll go a long way towards addressing the culture at the club. Football first.
Anyway, long rant - possibly in the wrong thread because even if i never thought these 2 were technically good enough, I never doubted their attitude(s).
Think Mctominay was massively underrated on here. Think he s the type of player Fergie would have in the squad till retirement imo.
6 ft 5, covers as much ground as anyone we've had, quite good In both boxes ( we could really find a use for him on set pieces, remember him always guarding the most dangerous ball header, leaving Maguire to cover the 6 yard box ). He's an athletic freak and you will not find players of his size covering anywhere near the ground he does and his stamina was that of a much smaller player. His biggest issue was always technical skill, and the inability to operate in very tight spaces (hardly surprising with players of that size, where the likes of Pogba and Busquets are exceptions). Mourinho and Solskjaer players him deeper to find space, while Ten Haag used him as a dummy in midfield to bypass the press and drag defenders with runs.
Defensively, under Ten Haag, he was a lot less involved than under Soskjaer, and mostly provided a screening block in front of the defense rather than outright chasing the ball/tackling players. Think it's because he s quite clumsy when facing the small agile type ( think Hazard, Silva ...) and would foul quite easily. This was okay under Soslkjaer (with a box defense of Maguire, Lindelof, Bissaka, Shaw, Mctominay), but a lot more risky under Ten Haag ( Martinez for Maguire, maybe Malacia/Dalot for Shaw ). So just by covering the center, even without engaging, would leave our combative, smaller, more agile defenders ( Dalot, Martinez ) to handle the attackers in more crowded areas. This is much more risky with Mainoo/Eriksen for Fred, who was a better ball winner than both combined.
The amount of criticism McTominay used to get for "hiding from the ball" under Ten Haag, whilst his instructions were obviously to go to the most crowded areas, dragging defenders away from the more skilled Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho etc. was always surprising. Not just on here, I remember in a game ( either Newcastle or Aston Villa) Dalot got on the ball in space and Mctominay absolutely sprinting to the center, dragging with him the 2 midfielders and then staying between them and was made fun of for 5 minutes straight by the ESPN crew, ignoring that Dalot managed to find Bruno in the space that should have been covered by one of the players Mctominay was hiding in between.
Anyway, while he shouldn't have been 1st choice, he's very useful tactically in a Wan Bissaka sort of way, just applicable to more matches, more often. Wan bissaka is extremely useful in completely shutting down the right side (lock down defense) and can nullify some teams biggest threat, whilst Mctominay can have an impact in a lot more games when used correctly. Think we d have seen a lot better from him as an impact player if our team, at any point, were not rubbish at keeping the ball, meaning adding him to the team made our barely functioning on the ball abilities disappear.
A bit similar to adding Ronaldo to one of the laziest teams in Europe pushed us over the edge.
Anyway think Fred was the better player overall, just not as useful tactically. It's easier to find a generally capable hard working midfielder than a physically gifted battering ram. We have a big enough squad to have role players with a job even when the squad is full more so than just cover to rest starters.
6 ft 5, covers as much ground as anyone we've had, quite good In both boxes ( we could really find a use for him on set pieces, remember him always guarding the most dangerous ball header, leaving Maguire to cover the 6 yard box ). He's an athletic freak and you will not find players of his size covering anywhere near the ground he does and his stamina was that of a much smaller player. His biggest issue was always technical skill, and the inability to operate in very tight spaces (hardly surprising with players of that size, where the likes of Pogba and Busquets are exceptions). Mourinho and Solskjaer players him deeper to find space, while Ten Haag used him as a dummy in midfield to bypass the press and drag defenders with runs.
Defensively, under Ten Haag, he was a lot less involved than under Soskjaer, and mostly provided a screening block in front of the defense rather than outright chasing the ball/tackling players. Think it's because he s quite clumsy when facing the small agile type ( think Hazard, Silva ...) and would foul quite easily. This was okay under Soslkjaer (with a box defense of Maguire, Lindelof, Bissaka, Shaw, Mctominay), but a lot more risky under Ten Haag ( Martinez for Maguire, maybe Malacia/Dalot for Shaw ). So just by covering the center, even without engaging, would leave our combative, smaller, more agile defenders ( Dalot, Martinez ) to handle the attackers in more crowded areas. This is much more risky with Mainoo/Eriksen for Fred, who was a better ball winner than both combined.
The amount of criticism McTominay used to get for "hiding from the ball" under Ten Haag, whilst his instructions were obviously to go to the most crowded areas, dragging defenders away from the more skilled Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho etc. was always surprising. Not just on here, I remember in a game ( either Newcastle or Aston Villa) Dalot got on the ball in space and Mctominay absolutely sprinting to the center, dragging with him the 2 midfielders and then staying between them and was made fun of for 5 minutes straight by the ESPN crew, ignoring that Dalot managed to find Bruno in the space that should have been covered by one of the players Mctominay was hiding in between.
Anyway, while he shouldn't have been 1st choice, he's very useful tactically in a Wan Bissaka sort of way, just applicable to more matches, more often. Wan bissaka is extremely useful in completely shutting down the right side (lock down defense) and can nullify some teams biggest threat, whilst Mctominay can have an impact in a lot more games when used correctly. Think we d have seen a lot better from him as an impact player if our team, at any point, were not rubbish at keeping the ball, meaning adding him to the team made our barely functioning on the ball abilities disappear.
A bit similar to adding Ronaldo to one of the laziest teams in Europe pushed us over the edge.
Anyway think Fred was the better player overall, just not as useful tactically. It's easier to find a generally capable hard working midfielder than a physically gifted battering ram. We have a big enough squad to have role players with a job even when the squad is full more so than just cover to rest starters.
Mctominay barely touched the ball at Napoli either. So the criticism is fair.
He's just not good enough on the ball.
What? Thats an almost absurd amount of generousity. And you include Greenwood. I mean, is it satire? Please, let it be satire...
It is an overreaction that is based on years long of underperformance so it isn't unfounded. Our recruitment was bad and some of us knew that there would be a point in time, when those dues would have to be paid...
Thats not true. Central midfield is a very big issue and it is for quite some time. But it is not the one reason everything else is bad. We suffer from attacking firepower because we brought in a young striker but missed the moment to bring in another player to take the pressure off that striker. We have players like Rashford, who should be at his peak and reliable performer who virtually disappeared. How is that connected with CM. Stop trying to simplify the issues at hand. These days, you can't just isolate parts of the team as if they are separate units. Teams have such a big amount of organisation that it doesn't make any sense to think we could fix one area only for the others to finally flourish again. We need players that are hungry, that are eager to work hard, willing to fight against the opponent. Ability wise, I think most of the players we have, are good enough, the issue is the mental side of things and as long as that is the case, we need new players to get rid of the complacency that burns that team
Some of them have taken themselves out of the game though...
Where does this myth come from that McTominay covered much ground? I can't remember one game where I thought "damn, that guy is everywhere". Same goes for his size. No doubt, he is tall and he has a great physique, but he somehow managed to not show it on the pitch. I mean, sure, against featherweights he came out on top but as soon as players with normal size were on it, he shrunk. I remember him getting bossed by Ward-Prowse in one game...
The best feature McTominay offered was his ridiculously low wage. There is no doubt, that some of the criticism that flew in his way was a little too mean and over the top but a lot of the praise was just as shallow. The fact that he managed to be a mainstay in a United midfield for a considerable time only goes to show, how badly run we were...
Last edited:
The statement that you consider controversial on players who left us, all of them would walk into this team and make it better.
Looking at the players that we have overall, the problem is the system and the midfield. Players like Dalot, Maguire, Maz, Deligt , Amad , Mainoo Urgate etc are going to be hard to upgrade on . By all indications so far Yoro seems to be a solid buy . Problem is that our system doesn’t accommodate them which means a wholesale of the entire award because none of our players fit a 343 formation except Maz as a wide CB and Urgate. Change to 4-3-3 and you will see a much better team.
Something like.
Onana
Dalot. Deligt. Maguire. Maz
Mainoo Urgate (Passer with good engine)
Amad. Hojlund. ( goal scoring wide forward)
Upgrade on Hojlund if funds available, Yoro can potentially step in for Maguire.
McTominay starts every game for a side who will either win Serie A, or likely finish 2nd/3rd.
We are in amongst the relegation fodder but I’m meant to believe he wouldn’t start for us? Absolutely wild take.
Amorim would love him as one of the two off a striker.
We are in amongst the relegation fodder but I’m meant to believe he wouldn’t start for us? Absolutely wild take.
Amorim would love him as one of the two off a striker.
You thinking that this is a wild take doesn't bode well for you. Napoli doesn't do so well because of McTominay. He works alright in a functional team. If you would apply your logic consequentially, you'd kick away the chair you are sitting on yourself - because McTominay was more often than not a part of a very unfunctional United team himself.
Lets hope that the decision makers put a little more thought into things than some fans on here. Pretty disheartening to see the level of shallowness of thought. But each to their own and you describing midfield as a problem is certainly something, most people will agree with. The notion that it is the only problem is more than shortsighted though, same with the system. But I am not going to fight those particular windmills any longer.
McTominay is part of a well built and structured team. Napoli play to their strengths and don’t try to be something they are not. McTominay is a good fit for their midfield, but they could arguably replace him with another midfielder and get similar results. He’s a solid starter who generally won’t let you down, but he’s also not the kind of player that will consistently carry a team to victory/the next level.