McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season

I'm sorry but only having one target is idiotic.

Like we are purposely fecking off the season before it begins if this is our summer.

Another 2 signings needed at minimum
 
laughtersassassin said:
I'm sorry but only having one target is idiotic.

Like we are purposely fecking off the season before it begins if this is our summer.

Another 2 signings needed at minimum
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I've said this before. I'd rather have 2 good upgrades than one huge.
 
I would love to know who first came up with the line that McTominay "hides". As it's utter nonsense.

No professional player "hides" from the ball. The problem is his spacial awareness. But that can be corrected via coaching and analysis.

Do people not realise that we now have a manager worthy of the name? So could you please wait till the season has started before getting into a hissy fit?

Seriously. It genuinely feels like some people get a high from tearing certain players to shreds.
 
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I can’t understand how a club the size of Utd can have so limited midfield options. The addition of de jong wouldn’t change much, there is still at least one defensive midfielder missing. Right now, you’re lacking quality and quantity. There have been enough players on the market to at least fix the quantity issue and which could have been decent squad options even when players of the FDJ category have been signed.
 
hobbers said:
Fred really does get a raw deal lumped in with a donkey like McTominay.

Yeah Fred is terrible in our half, but his pressing and link up play in the other half is pretty good, there's nothing wrong with Fred starting games in a midfield 3 for a top four side.

He's actually been a far better player in the opponents half than Bruno for the last 6 months or so.
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Put him on the left of midfield 3 and he will contribute alright.
Or put him as DM and watch opposition stroll through our midfield.
 
TDK said:
I would love to know who first came up with the line that McTominay "hides". As it's utter nonsense.

No professional player "hides" from the ball. The problem is his spacial awareness. But that can be corrected via coaching and analysis.

Do people not realise that we now have a manager worthy of the name? So could you please wait till the season has started before getting into a hissy fit?

Seriously. It genuinely feels like some people get a high from tearing certain players to shreds.
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"Hide" may not be the right word. However, it's quite obvious our defenders would rather not pass to McT and Fred if there is pressure and space is a bit tight. They are not good in tight spaces and a new coach can't change that.
 
It's not impossible that McFred will function much better with a good coach.
 
glazed said:
It's not impossible that McFred will function much better with a good coach.
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To be honest they looked better in pre season - they were finding space better and passing okay, but still think they are both

a) not the right quality to be our starting midfielders - i wouldn't have a problem with them being squad players and
b) wildly inconsistent. Fred looks great one week and then cant make a 5 yard pass the next.
Its the most important area of the pitch and it will tell over the course of 38 games that you dont have consistent high quality in there.
 
TDK said:
I would love to know who first came up with the line that McTominay "hides". As it's utter nonsense.
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I first heard about it from a video uploaded in October 2021 called The Real Problem with Manchester United's Midfield by Tifo Football (A subset of The Athletic). I can't link it as I'm a new member.

In this video they suggested the idea that Scott McTominay "hides in the cover shadow". I don't personally agree with their suggestion, but I wouldn't be surprised if many fans just accepted their premise as fact without querying or validating it.
 
We literally signed Eriksen and have Martinez who can slot in in case of injuries. I don't know why the complaints are like this, especially when its obvious that we are targeting a holding player. What's even more astonishing is how our lack of depth in attack is used as a stick to beat us with, despite the fact that some still have the idea that McFred will start (Eriksen will clearly play if we have a hole in either position). I actually think Donny is ahead of Mctominay. In addition, we have Zidane Iqbal as an option.

Fred in this preseason has proven he can temporarily handle the holding position, so I'm really not worries going into the season. Even if we don't sign FDJ, I don't think we will go into the season without a new holding midfielder. That simply means we have to ensure that Fred stays fit till that deal occurs.

Furthermore, even if we sold Ronaldo, signing a forward would ensure that we actually have good depth compared to our rivals. Add Garnacho and Elanga and that would be 6 players across the front 3 ( with Eriksen as an option there too). That's a lot of depth.

I'm not saying that we are going to win the league quite yet, but it won't surprise me if we do really well despite the moaning.
 
nau05194 said:
I first heard about it from a video uploaded in October 2021 called The Real Problem with Manchester United's Midfield by Tifo Football (A subset of The Athletic). I can't link it as I'm a new member.

In this video they suggested the idea that Scott McTominay "hides in the cover shadow". I don't personally agree with their suggestion, but I wouldn't be surprised if many fans just accepted their premise as fact without querying or validating it.
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He does. I'm not sure its necessarily hiding, but he really has poor positional awareness on and off the ball. That means if we play out of the back, especially in a double pivot, Mctominay presents a gap in our build up, which affects us, especially in games where we are dealing with more pressure from the opposition. The fact with Mctominay is he really should be nowhere near the starting lineup for United and if I'm being honest, I don't think he's versatile enough for our bench either. Positioning and off the ball movement are the most important tools to a midfielder in the modern game and he just doesn't have it.
 
SmallCaine said:
Being better than absolutely rubbish is technically better doesn't make it good enough though.
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It sure does. United dropped 17 points to Soton, Everton, Burnley and Watford last season, and they finished 14 points off 4th.

It's very unlikely that EtH can improve the current squad enough to win the Liverpool and City matches but they don't need to do that for top 4. They need to not drop so many points against relegation fodder and scrape out some decent results against Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea.
 
Depressing lack of intent in the transfer market. How is it a worry that McT or Fred might get injured. We don’t even seem remotely close to signing anyone else and it wouldn’t be a suprise if we signed nobody else. Looking forward to an ETH season but a season of McFred with no other options that are ready is depressing.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Depressing lack of intent in the transfer market. How is it a worry that McT or Fred might get injured. We don’t even seem remotely close to signing anyone else and it wouldn’t be a suprise if we signed nobody else. Looking forward to an ETH season but a season of McFred with no other options that are ready is depressing.
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I wouldn't be worried if McT gets injured, I'm sure the youngsters would do a good job replacing him.
 
We were already short last season, so we lose 2 central midfielders, add an attacking one and we think we will do what exactly with that squad this season. Just take the conference League place right now and run.

We just need players who are good enough for top 6 and next season can become the backup. Forget about getting premium players right now.
 
Eplel said:
I wouldn't be worried if McT gets injured, I'm sure the youngsters would do a good job replacing him.
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Wouldn’t like to see Iqbal or Savage especially against the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs etc.
 
Fred I think will have a big part to play even if FDJ signs, he’s been really good.

McT is pure dross though, should be nowhere near a club with ambitions, he’s mid table at the very best. The sort of player Sunderland used to buy off of us. It’s insane that he’s not only still here but our first choice midfielder.

We’re a fecking shambles.
 
SmallCaine said:
Being better than absolutely rubbish is technically better doesn't make it good enough though.
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Jezpeza said:
To be honest they looked better in pre season - they were finding space better and passing okay, but still think they are both

a) not the right quality to be our starting midfielders - i wouldn't have a problem with them being squad players and
b) wildly inconsistent. Fred looks great one week and then cant make a 5 yard pass the next.
Its the most important area of the pitch and it will tell over the course of 38 games that you dont have consistent high quality in there.
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All true. And yet here we are starting the season with McFred and CR7. It's virtually a like for like comparison between ETH and Ole - which at least might settle a few arguments about bad coaching.
 
RedOrange said:
It sure does. United dropped 17 points to Soton, Everton, Burnley and Watford last season, and they finished 14 points off 4th.

It's very unlikely that EtH can improve the current squad enough to win the Liverpool and City matches but they don't need to do that for top 4. They need to not drop so many points against relegation fodder and scrape out some decent results against Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea.
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Except Jose failed to get most of these frauds to perform consistently, ole failed to get them to perform consistently, Ralf just failed, we need to stop expecting miracles from the coach, klopp couldn't win shit until he got good players, baldy across town finished 4th with league winners and needed his players to win the league. We keep giving managers the same shit but expect better and better results. We want to consistently beat beatable teams we need players who can play how the managers wants them to play, mctominay and fred in a possession based team is a disaster waiting to happen, ETH is a good coach, he isn't a magician.
 
nau05194 said:
I first heard about it from a video uploaded in October 2021 called The Real Problem with Manchester United's Midfield by Tifo Football (A subset of The Athletic). I can't link it as I'm a new member.

In this video they suggested the idea that Scott McTominay "hides in the cover shadow". I don't personally agree with their suggestion, but I wouldn't be surprised if many fans just accepted their premise as fact without querying or validating it.
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Nobody can know if he does it deliberately (presumably because he doesn't trust himself to take the ball on and play it forward) or if it's an accidental thing he doesn't realise he's doing, but the end result is the same. Scott constantly makes himself basically impossible to pass to because he moves behind opposition players. Many of us were talking about it long before that video was made. It is especially noticeable when we are trying to play out from the back, as he makes it far more difficult than it should be with his terrible positioning and movement. It's not like he just finds himself in these positions, he actively moves and jogs around staying behind opposition players the entire time.

It's something that he needs to improve, but he hasn't really shown any improvement in the years that he's been in the first team yet. In saying that, it sadly wouldn't surprise me much if the previous managers and coaching set-up never even really worked on it, whereas I have no doubt that ETH will be focusing on it.
 
Regardless if they play every game or not they are our only natural CMs along with Garner, so its not illogical to think they would get many games starting together. EtH has described Eriksen and VdB as attacking midfielders but has said they can also play midfield but its a fair assumption that their primary roles will be the No.10.

To those that think Fred is a very good player, that is extremely generous. He's better than Mctominay but he still has no business starting for us. Midfielders are supposed to be dependable and I don't think Fred is, he's far too erratic as a player to be very good. He's also got an inconsistent first touch which teams have exposed and with the role he has under EtH right now he will be exposed continuously. Like I said he's better than Mct but it doesn't really say much.
 
It's the clean slate factor every time we get a new manager. I don't blame the manager as it's what he's supposed to do. I blame the club and structure, getting a DoF was supposed to bypass this so there would finally be improvement continuity. As opposed to simply restarting their assessment and giving every average player a clean slate every 3 years.

It's not just McFred, it's the fact that the departure of Pogba and Matic now have them as our front and center options. They are even more relied on than ever. I don't know how this is even possible. How do you make that midfield worse? There's now no room to mix things up without bringing someone out of position.
 
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El Jefe said:
Regardless if they play every game or not they are our only natural CMs along with Garner, so its not illogical to think they would get many games starting together. EtH has described Eriksen and VdB as attacking midfielders but has said they can also play midfield but its a fair assumption that their primary roles will be the No.10.

To those that think Fred is a very good player, that is extremely generous. He's better than Mctominay but he still has no business starting for us. Midfielders are supposed to be dependable and I don't think Fred is, he's far too erratic as a player to be very good. He's also got an inconsistent first touch which teams have exposed and with the role he has under EtH right now he will be exposed continuously. Like I said he's better than Mct but it doesn't really say much.
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Problem with Eriksen is being paired with one of Fred or mctominay could exacerbate his defensive weaknesses. They can't even shield the defense when they play together. DMs that need to play beside another DM. I like Fred with the ball though but he probably needs a Carrick type when we don't have possession.
 
The problem for both McTominay and Fred is they both need a DM playing alongside them. When they play together they are half trying to fill that role and half filling the number 8 role.

I'm not sure if either should be starting for United if we ever want to get back to challenging for titles but out of the two I think Fred is more useful with his pressing and tenacity.

Other than three or four times a season McTominay is largely awful and I can't for the life of me understand why he keeps getting picked. You just need to watch the games from last season to see our midfield getting completely dominated by almost every team we played to know this combination will mean we will have a terrible season. At least one new CM is a must.
 
I'm hoping that Ten Hag's system will help both Fred and McTominay perform better if they are selected to start tomorrow, I don't think both players are good enough but maybe if they play within a solid structure and style of play they'll be able to do a job in the middle of the park until the upgrades (De Jong?) are brought in.
 
We have become a terribly average club.
 
Oh joy, back to watching several midfielders miles better than these two playing for smaller clubs week in week out.

Only thing I can hope is that Garner and Iqbal and Savage are given a fair chance. If they are, it won't take much time to show the manager and everyone with eyes that McFred is not, and will never be, the answer in midfield.
 
Tired of the term McFred being used. Fred is so clear of McT. He should not be lumped in with him. Fred can and has done a good job for us. We need a #6 and we will be fine.
 
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