Mbappe vs Rashford - Taking the L from Lukaku

Status
Not open for further replies.
VivaObertan said:
Good post - but what did I write that's not true? It must be one of the following:

1. You think Rashford's better than Mbappe.
2. You don't think tactics and personnel played a part in each of their performances yesterday.
3. You think that Mbappe would've messed up those 4-5 counter attacking opportunities vs the PSG defence.

Let me know, thanks. x
Click to expand...
Mbappe was pocketed by a lad that hasn't played a competitive game in 10 months, before that he played Championship football.

I'm not saying Rashford is better but I am saying this notion that Mbappe is the best in the world is silly. The league he plays in is 2/3rd's team's that would be League 1 level in England.

They're different players, comparing apples with oranges. Mbappe is more selfish and wants to score goals, tap ins, in the box stuff, more of a poacher. Rashford wants to commit defenders, play other players in, and have long-range efforts.

If Rashford ever becomes that 30 goal a season poacher on top of his current game he's comfortably better than Mbappe.
 
Stretender said:
There are some deluded people on here.

Rashford is not even the best of the front 3 at United, Greenwood is Miles head.

Let's celebrate beating PSG last night but saying Rashford is better than Mbappe is an insult to our football intelligence.
Click to expand...
So in the handful of games you've seen Greenwood play he's better than Rashford? Okay, sure. I think your football intelligence has taken enough of a battering it seems.
 
Stretender said:
There are some deluded people on here.

Rashford is not even the best of the front 3 at United, Greenwood is Miles head.

Let's celebrate beating PSG last night but saying Rashford is better than Mbappe is an insult to our football intelligence.
Click to expand...
That's one of the worst take I've seen.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Mbappe is comfortably the better player. I don't think they are in the same category.
Click to expand...
I understand this but based on what? He had a good sub apoearance v Atalanta last year but hes been underwhelming in europe for a while now so I dont know what he can be judged on. 2 goals at home in CL in 2 years, 1 solitary knock out goal in his entire PSG career so its not his finishing ability? Its not as if we are all analysing his games in France, that keagues thread is tiny for a reason.
I think his career has gone backwards, hes getting slightly worse every season. The Mbappe at Monaco is twice the player he is today what he did to Peps City thst year was bordering on criminal.
Now its a few runs and a burst of pace. He isnt very good through the middle, he isnt that good in tight spaces and he isnt the difference maker in big games.
Honestly, players like Mane and Salah are leagues above him at the minute.
 
Let me put it this way. If Mbappe played in Premier League, he would've scored less goals because defenders quality is higher.

Rashford would score the same number of goals in France, because he'd still be missing many good opportunities.

Mbappe is comfortably the better striker, but PSG are wrong to focus on front three all the work. As a result, Mbappe, Neymar and Di Maria are asked to run, create, and score. Yesterday Mbappe was playing way too deep.

And I agree with @VivaObertan , if we swapped them yesterday between the teams we would've trashed PSG. Until Rashford cuts off brain farts like when we were 2vs1, he's a level below Mbappe.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Why is it not feasible that the PL would be a harder league overall compared to Ligue 1?
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the point he's trying to make, think he's trying to point to the fanatical notion that the PL is some super league that makes others look like pub league's. People literally put the PL on some sort of invincible pedestal it simply isn't on.

The fact that people genuinely believe Messi would have struggled in the league says it all, utterly bonkers!
 
11101 said:
Mbappe is the better player but Rashford is catching him as he stagnates at PSG.

Pace - Rashford is fast but Mbappe is another level.
Technical ability - Mbappe, but he is losing it by not being challenged regularly. Too many loose touches and not moving the ball fast enough.
Creativity - Pretty equal, but Rashford is getting better whilst Mbappe is not.
Footballing IQ - Rashford wastes a lot of chances but overall his knowledge of what to do is way above Mbappe's, who is still playing like he was when he was 18.
Shooting - Rashford outside the box, Mbappe in it.
Finishing - Mbappe.
Click to expand...

In terms of footballing IQ, I usually see it in the way of how many times do I wonder "what the hell were you thinking when you did that?" I find myself thinking of that more when I see Rashford play then when Mbappe plays, hence why I think Mbappe has better footballing IQ. Most of the others I can agree with though.

I would also say footballing IQ doesn't actually go away, even if you play in a league with inferior opposition, especially if you are the first choice player for your national team and starter in the Champions League.
 
VivaObertan said:
Mbappe is by far the better player - he was extremely dangerous every time he picked up the ball last night and was playing vs the best defensive RB in the world... with a back 3 and 2 defensive midfielders behind him. Rashford was regularly 1v1 on the counter and couldn't make it count.

I think Rashford is great and would be happy for him to lead the line at United for the next 10 years but he's not on Mbappe's level at all.

If you switch them in yesterday's game, Mbappe scores a hattrick and Rashford comes off at 65 minutes for Draxler.
Click to expand...

Bingo. The tactics and play last night suited Rashford more.
 
It's still open for debate, imo. If Rashford has a great season and Mbappe struggles a bit like he did against United then obviously the tables will have been turned at that point. Mbappe have some leeway with his age but not much. He has already been overtaken by Haaland.
 
cyberman said:
Na, the he could have scored there is Rashford in a nutshell. He is a monster of a big game player but we would he looking at Ronaldo numbers if he took advantage of every great attacking situation he finds himself in.
City away last year he should have had a first half hattrick alone. We would be EL champions if he was on it in the semis.
Click to expand...
That's not what I meant.
Rashford messes up chances he should score quite often yes but there are games where he simply won't get good chances at all.

Mbappe will ALWAYS have clear chances in a 90 minutes game, his runs are the best in the world, the way he attacks space with a combination of insane speed/acceleration, great sense of timing and PSG being able to provide very good service means he always ends up getting quality chances every single game.
 
Dancfc said:
I don't think that's the point he's trying to make, think he's trying to point to the fanatical notion that the PL is some super league that makes others look like pub league's. People literally put the PL on some sort of invincible pedestal it simply isn't on.

The fact that people genuinely believe Messi would have struggled in the league says it all, utterly bonkers!
Click to expand...

Messi would have definitely found it faster, who knows if he would have struggled or thrived but the key is that the PL is definitely different to other leagues in terms of speed and physicality. Mbappe has all the tools to thrive in the PL but does he have the attitude, the work rate, will he want a free role and will he find it harder in a league where I think it's fair to say the overall quality is much higher for simple reason that the money is in the PL (unless you're going to a handful of European clubs). The talent drain from France has been going on for years - look at the World Cup starting XI - how many of that team played in Ligue 1 at that time?

To suggest Mbappe would find it harder and therefore he might not post the same level of stats is pretty logical but that's not to say he wouldn't be a huge success. I'd take him in a heartbeat at United and he'd immediately be our best attacker on paper but we won't know unless he comes to the PL.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
That's not what I meant.
Rashford messes up chances he should score quite often yes but there are games where he simply won't get good chances at all.

Mbappe will ALWAYS have clear chances in a 90 minutes game, his runs are the best in the world, the way he attacks space with a combination of insane speed/acceleration, great sense of timing and PSG being able to provide very good service means he always ends up getting quality chances every single game.
Click to expand...
Not in the last 18 odd months. Marcus is a constant goal threat every game he plays.
 
Come on guys, Mbappe is quiet clearly the better player. Only United fans would think otherwise. That's not to say Rashford isn't great, it's just Mbappe is an unbelievable generational talent.
 
Stretender said:
There are some deluded people on here.

Rashford is not even the best of the front 3 at United, Greenwood is Miles head.

Let's celebrate beating PSG last night but saying Rashford is better than Mbappe is an insult to our football intelligence.
Click to expand...
The irony in this post :lol:
 
In last nights game, Rashford contributed more that Mbappe. This doesn’t make Rash a better player than Mbappe. Fred was better than Neymar but that doesn’t make him worth £180m. We were good last night, no question but PSG were stuck in first gear. Not our fault they have easier matches every week when we have a battle every week. We won, they lost.
 
I have to go with Mbappe too, though he does seem to be stagnating in that ridiculous French league. And it’s also true that Rashford’s progress has been hampered by a squad that’s been flailing the last few years and a serious back injury.

I really wouldn’t be surprised if in 2-3 years Rashford looks back at Mbappe in the rear view mirror, but for Mbappe is the superior forward.
 
VivaObertan said:
Mbappe is by far the better player - he was extremely dangerous every time he picked up the ball last night and was playing vs the best defensive RB in the world... with a back 3 and 2 defensive midfielders behind him. Rashford was regularly 1v1 on the counter and couldn't make it count.

I think Rashford is great and would be happy for him to lead the line at United for the next 10 years but he's not on Mbappe's level at all.

If you switch them in yesterday's game, Mbappe scores a hattrick and Rashford comes off at 65 minutes for Draxler.
Click to expand...
It's probably best we wait and see how the return leg goes eh? But in the meantime, 'extremely dangerous every time he picked up the ball' is so wrong it's not even funny. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did actually watch the game, but there were a number of moments when Mbappé was fed a great ball and was matched for pace and was eased off it by a 22 year old defender who hasn't played in 10 months. There's been a feck load of people talking about it, actually. He had a few decent efforts but it was far from a great performance.

I also love the way you've managed to reframe yesterday's game into some bizarre alternate reality in which Mbappé scores a hat-trick while Rashford gets subbed off after an hour. Forget what actually happened in Mbappé being dominated by Tuanzebe and Rashford scoring the winner away from home, I've got my made up scenario! Also, the 'best defensive RB in the world'. This is the same guy that everyone has been complaining about, yeah?! Mbappé is clearly the more talented one based on what we've seen from their respective careers thus far, but last nights game was not the one to use as an example.
 
I remember arguing with some about who was the jewel in the crown at Monaco. Obviously Mbappe secured them the biggest windfall, but I see all the same issues as back then. I still believe Bernardo Silva is the better player.

Last night, Mbappe looked as though he was trying to compete with Neymar for most tricks or number of take ons, only with a fraction of the skill level of Neymar. I just don't think he's that special apart from when he can use his pace.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Rashford has more creative spark and can produce more special moments such as the one from last night, it doesn't help Mbappe's shooting outside the box is quite non-existent in comparison.
Still overall Mbappe remains the superior player, he's far more dangeorus with his runs, even in bad games such as last night there are still 2 or 3 instances where you tell yourself "he could've scored right there"
Click to expand...

Of the current posts, I agree with this the most. Rashford definitely has more creativity, and his goal tally probably suffers for it as he tries things that don't come off at times when he should just shoot. If he was as ruthless as Mbappe has shown in front of goal, he'd be considered world class, maybe even Ballon D'or class. As it stands, for a team built to win now, Mbappe has the edge. If the team is still being formed (like the current United), I'd say they are even. Both have great qualities, it just depends on how you are shaping the team.
 
Rashford and Martial are great players, but sure are a couple of tiers below Mbappe and Haaland

Some stats from the only tournament they have all played in, the CL:

Rashford : 19 apps, 6 goals and 3 assists in 1158 minutes of play. A goal per 193 minutes and contribution per 129 minutes. 11% conversionrate (6 goals/54 shots), a key pass every 83 minutes and a successfull dribble every 45 minutes minutes.

Mbappe: 36 apps, 19 goals and 14 assists in 2637 minutes of play. A goal per 138 minutes and a contribution per 80 minutes. 18% conversionrate (19 goals/105 shots), a key pass every 54 minutes and a successfull dribble every 33 minutes

Martial: 30 apps, 4 goals and 3 assists in 1868 minutes of play. A goal per 467 minutes and a contribution per 267 minutes. 10% conversionrate (4 goals/40 shots), a key pass every 40 minutes and a successfull dribble every 46 minutes.

Haaland: 9 apps, 11 goals and 1 assist in 644 minutes of play. A goal per 58 minutes and a contribution per 54 minutes. 44% conversionrate (11 goals/25 shots), a key pass every 107 minutes and a successfull dribble every 92 minute.

This is just numbers and there is obviously more context behind the numbers. Like 6 of Haalands' matches were for Salzburg playing against way better opposition (Liverpool and Napoli) and Martials only goals came against CSKA (2), Wolfsburg and Young Boys, etc.

By the stats, Mbappe is more effective than Rashford in all the highlighted stats (goalratio, effectiveness, dribbling and creating/linkup)

None of these kids will ever be Messi or Maradona on the ball. By the numbers it looks like Haaland is by far the best finisher and is the best at getting into dangerous posistions, Martial, marginally ahead of Mbappe, seems to be the best creator of the 4, while Mbappe is the most frequent/best dribbler.
 
Harry Harries said:
It's probably best we wait and see how the return leg goes eh? But in the meantime, 'extremely dangerous every time he picked up the ball' is so wrong it's not even funny. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did actually watch the game, but there were a number of moments when Mbappé was fed a great ball and was matched for pace and was eased off it by a 22 year old defender who hasn't played in 10 months. There's been a feck load of people talking about it, actually. He had a few decent efforts but it was far from a great performance.

I also love the way you've managed to reframe yesterday's game into some bizarre alternate reality in which Mbappé scores a hat-trick while Rashford gets subbed off after an hour. Forget what actually happened in Mbappé being dominated by Tuanzebe and Rashford scoring the winner away from home, I've got my made up scenario! Also, the 'best defensive RB in the world'. This is the same guy that everyone has been complaining about, yeah?! Mbappé is clearly the more talented one based on what we've seen from their respective careers thus far, but last nights game was not the one to use as an example.
Click to expand...

So you're agreeing with me that Mbappe is the better player, and also recognise that yesterday cannot be used to compare the two... but you're unhappy with what I posted? What others have correctly interpreted from my statement is that yesterday's game conditions suited Rashford way more than they suited Mbappe. If you disagree with that, fine.

BTW Tuanzebe had a great game - you don't need to reduce his status to "22 year old defender who hasn't played in 10 months". And he didn't stop Mbappe alone - there was 'some' help from AWB (who I have never said a bad thing about on this forum, check the posts if you think I'm switching narrative based upon 1 game), Lindelof, McTominay and eventually DDG.
 
Rashford had a better game than Mbappe and Neymar, that doesn't make him a better player than them. He has every chance of being a great player, but he needs to produce top performances week in week out, and so far he hasn't been doing that. Mbappe has done much more over the past couple of years.
 
pocco said:
I remember arguing with some about who was the jewel in the crown at Monaco. Obviously Mbappe secured them the biggest windfall, but I see all the same issues as back then. I still believe Bernardo Silva is the better player.

Last night, Mbappe looked as though he was trying to compete with Neymar for most tricks or number of take ons, only with a fraction of the skill level of Neymar. I just don't think he's that special apart from when he can use his pace.
Click to expand...
So apart from when he was outpaced and outmuscled by Tuanzebe?
 
Rashford had the run of the place spacewise, Mbappe got the top player treatment. Mbappe nearly won PSG the match despite being against AWB the whole night with no one else really doing anything good for PSG - he should have been switched against Shaw, could have been a massacre.
Well played Rashford last night, he ran hard, was a huge threat on the counter, but he had acres of space and failed to work the keeper with shot or pass several times. Fantastic finish to win the game, but Mbappe was more menacing given he played against a tighter defence. United held him through some skin of the teeth Tuanzebe defending and a worldie DeGea save. He needs to move to a proper league, presumably will in 2022.
 
VivaObertan said:
So you're agreeing with me that Mbappe is the better player, and also recognise that yesterday cannot be used to compare the two... but you're unhappy with what I posted? What others have correctly interpreted from my statement is that yesterday's game conditions suited Rashford way more than they suited Mbappe. If you disagree with that, fine.

BTW Tuanzebe had a great game - you don't need to reduce his status to "22 year old defender who hasn't played in 10 months". And he didn't stop Mbappe alone - there was 'some' help from AWB (who I have never said a bad thing about on this forum, check the posts if you think I'm switching narrative based upon 1 game), Lindelof, McTominay and eventually DDG.
Click to expand...
That's a bit generous, I count more people that disagreed and/or laughed at what you said than agreed! It just seemed like a completely ridiculous and unnecessary thing to say. Rashford played better than Mbappé, yet you felt the need, despite being a Man Utd fan, to create some random scenario in which Mbappé scores a hat-trick and Rashford gets subbed off. I mean, isn't that a bit odd? The day after we just beat them pretty comfortably?!

Also I'm not reducing Tuanzebe's status by saying he's 22 year old defender who hasn't played in 10 months - that's literally what he is (or was).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Messi would have definitely found it faster, who knows if he would have struggled or thrived but the key is that the PL is definitely different to other leagues in terms of speed and physicality. Mbappe has all the tools to thrive in the PL but does he have the attitude, the work rate, will he want a free role and will he find it harder in a league where I think it's fair to say the overall quality is much higher for simple reason that the money is in the PL (unless you're going to a handful of European clubs). The talent drain from France has been going on for years - look at the World Cup starting XI - how many of that team played in Ligue 1 at that time?

To suggest Mbappe would find it harder and therefore he might not post the same level of stats is pretty logical but that's not to say he wouldn't be a huge success. I'd take him in a heartbeat at United and he'd immediately be our best attacker on paper but we won't know unless he comes to the PL.
Click to expand...
But there's no real evidence to suggest Messi would have struggled, quite the opposite infact.

Firstly similar type of players went to the PL and smashed it and each and every one of them were inferior to Messi by a distance (stating the obvious). David Silva, Juan Mata and Sergio Aguero the prime examples. And not only that he has in general destroyed the PL sides he faced in the CL. I mean West Brom, Stoke and the like succeeding where United, Arsenal, City, Chelsea (he may have took a while to score past us but he ripped us apart in some of games prior to that despite not scoring), Spurs and Liverpool have all failed? I guess everything's possible but it's highly unlikely!
 
pocco said:
I remember arguing with some about who was the jewel in the crown at Monaco. Obviously Mbappe secured them the biggest windfall, but I see all the same issues as back then. I still believe Bernardo Silva is the better player.

Last night, Mbappe looked as though he was trying to compete with Neymar for most tricks or number of take ons, only with a fraction of the skill level of Neymar. I just don't think he's that special apart from when he can use his pace.
Click to expand...

The same Bernardo Silva who's been pretty meh for like a year now?
 
I would argue this. If Rashford didn't score that goal, then he had a really poor game. That goal saved his performance.
 
Hammondo said:
I would argue this. If Rashford didn't score that goal, then he had a really poor game. That goal saved his performance.
Click to expand...
Exactly, all around he feck up 3 BIG chances, specially the 2 vs 1. If he hadnt got the late goal we would be killing him and the forum would be about bursting his bubble rather than him being better than Mbappe.
 
Mbappe is better, don't think the gap is nearly as big as people make out though. Not anymore, at least. He does look to have stagnated heavily since moving to PSG. He was wank against us last time out in the CL too. Mentality thing? Maybe. Or maybe it just goes to show that coaching and a good tactical structure is important for a player to perform to the standards they can reach.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Exactly, all around he feck up 3 BIG chances, specially the 2 vs 1. If he hadnt got the late goal we would be killing him and the forum would be about bursting his bubble rather than him being better than Mbappe.
Click to expand...
This happens often though, with many united or ex united players. Ignoring everything they do, if they get a goal they are amazing.
 
Womp said:
Mbappe is better, don't think the gap is nearly as big as people make out though. Not anymore, at least. He does look to have stagnated heavily since moving to PSG. He was wank against us last time out in the CL too. Mentality thing? Maybe. Or maybe it just goes to show that coaching and a good tactical structure is important for a player to perform to the standards they can reach.
Click to expand...

I think it’s far more to do with the level of the league he’s playing in. The PL is far more competitive. It’s too easy for him in most games, and so he doesn’t have to push himself.
 
The reality is it’s fine margins. No doubt Rashford looked the better player yesterday.

Mbappe doesn’t excel in the premier league like he does in the French league that’s for sure.

I’d still have Mbappe a step ahead of Rashford but both have time to improve being so young.
 
Mbappe was inches away from a bloody brilliant solo goal last night. Brilliant talent. But to fulfil his potential, he needs to move within the next 2 summer transfer windows.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.