He was better than Ronaldo.
Matteo Darmian: 'Rashford can reach Mbappé level and win Ballon d'Or'
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
Rooney had the talent; he never really applied his work-rate at the same maniacal level as CR7.
The way how you described this, it seems you are talking about post 2006 when both players became top class/world class. From I see the poster was talking about when they were teen.
When they were teenagers Rooney was rated higher until 05/06 they both were considered equal. Ronaldo in his first two season had no end product, he’s more of a winger with quick feet and tricks. Even in 05/06, Ronaldo end product wasn’t really enough to be considered higher than Rooney.
Rooney was considered more complete when they both were teen (can pass, can score, higher stamina), he even won the Golden Boy award over Ronaldo. Just because Ronaldo reached higher ceiling doesn’t make both of them not equal when they were teen.
Did you watch football in 2004?
The Cristiano Ronaldo prototype vs the Brazilian Ronaldo prototype
I really think he can match Mbappe level judging from this season performance, but to win Ballon D’or there’s still some way to go. For example, even if he reach Bale level, fact is Bale is still far away from winning a Ballon D’or.
Nah Ronaldo was definitely better in Euro 2004, the only thing stopping him winning young player award was his wink. But agree Rooney was better prospect in their early years (first 2-3 years), after all people said he was white Pelé, whereas Ronaldo, maybe new George Best etc
I think you're confusing two years. The wink was the WC 2006, and it definitely was around that time that Cristiano was pulling away from Rooney. 2004 was the Euro where Rooney wound up with the Golden Boy award because he was considered the most talented teenager around, above CR7.
Oh it was long time ago, maybe I got it all mixed up then. Anyway, in their earlier years (maybe first 3 years), I remember Rooney was even a bigger prospect than Messi at the beginning. But turn out he didn’t improve as much as I’d expect. Whereas Ronaldo, he improves maybe 5-10 times from what I would have expect.
I still remember Ronaldo at the beginning, in his debut and first few matches, I thought we had new Giggs there, looks so electrify and refreshing. I mean, just look at my username and date I joined this forum, I was so buzzed at that time hence I use his name here. But then the next few years, I felt he was very skillful and entertaining to watch , but he was more like a showpony sometimes, and if you want someone to win the match, Rooney was definitely ahead of him. But somehow, suddenly Ronaldo transform into some type of super player, and becomes far ahead of everyone else in the league. Rooney never had a chance to catch up since.
Last edited:
Mbappe last season was magic and probably in the top 5 players in the world.
I get the feeling we may see a Van Persie-esc career from Rashford when he goes on an absolute tear for the next 3-4 years (we hope). Long-term fitness could be a key factor.
Mbappe and some foreign stars have it a lot easier week in week out on their bodies not playing in the Prem. It’s not out the question Mbappe will almost certainly still be banging in goals into his 30’s. Can’t say the same about Rashford but I hope I’m wrong.
In my opinion I can’t see any of our players winning the Ballon D’Or in the next 10 years unless we sign Sancho. Then I could!
I get the feeling we may see a Van Persie-esc career from Rashford when he goes on an absolute tear for the next 3-4 years (we hope). Long-term fitness could be a key factor.
Mbappe and some foreign stars have it a lot easier week in week out on their bodies not playing in the Prem. It’s not out the question Mbappe will almost certainly still be banging in goals into his 30’s. Can’t say the same about Rashford but I hope I’m wrong.
In my opinion I can’t see any of our players winning the Ballon D’Or in the next 10 years unless we sign Sancho. Then I could!
I don’t think so, and I think that’s fine. At Man Utd it was the talent and team togetherness and spirit that brought the club so much success. Football is a team game and having a “best player in the world” gold sticker kind of player can be a massive pain.
Possibly Rooney was a little complacent in terms of his development as a player simply because he was so close to the finished article so early. Ronaldo arrived with all the skill in the world but he knew what Portuguese players were known for, amazing wingers no finishers, and he saw things he clearly needed to work on straight away (thanks to guidance too).
I wonder what coaches would genuinely try to get a young Rooney to work on, in the sense of “development” rather than practice. Because to my mind despite all his success Man Utd never quite worked out and committed to what his best position would be.
I really think the wink incident pushed him into overdrive mode. He was worried about the reception he would get back in England and I guess the dude must have just buried himself into his work and then the comparisons between the two became less and less apt. It was becoming clear CR7 was on his way of being the better player. I just have to correct those who think CR7 was considered the best talent around from the beginning when that never was the case and I think a lot of people were surprised by just how good CR7 became, which is a testament to his work ethic. I think we all thought he would be a good, possibly great player, but no one in their right mind could have seen him becoming a guy that scores 50+ goals/season and keeps up with an alien like Messi. Fantastic career.
I think mentality and dedication would probably be the most important things. He was a hot head and cost himself and his team at times by allowing himself to be taken out of the game mentally. As far as his skills and physicality, like you said he was pretty much almost a finished product. Good passer, shooting technique with both feet, vision, awareness, IQ, he seemed to have it all. I think if he could control his emotions better and have an obsession with scoring and being the best, he could have gone further but it's not easy to change someone's mentality. I was just reading an interview with Hazard how he tried to have that obsession to score 30-40 goals per season but he can't help himself but being very content scoring 20 goals for the season, or if he scores a goal in a game and it puts the team up, it's enough for him and he's not looking for more. That's where CR7's obsession is so impressive, the dude is mad if he's 5-0 up but hasn't had his hat trick yet. I don't know if you can really teach that.
Ronaldo was an ok tricky winger. Those who think he was better there than tour de force Rooney are using hindsight imo.
I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.
Rooney was more physically developed, and more mature....I suppose it’s what you consider better. You could say he was better because he was more mature and physically developed....like say how Matic is a better player currently than Greenwood for the same reasons.....but Greenwood will be a better player in the future.
He never had Ronaldos ability, whilst having great ability, it was never on the same level as Ronaldo. If you rewatch games Ronaldo played for Portugal’s under 21s he ran the entire game with Queresma, or the game Rooney tried to kick Ronaldo off the pitch when he was at Everton because he couldn’t live with him that day.
There’s a story Jaimie Redknapp tells of bumping into SAF at Tottenham in 03/04 and pointing to Ronaldo....and Sir Alex said to him “he’s going to be the best player in the world”.
Sir Alex could see it from the start, it wasn’t workrste that set Ronaldo apart, it was his natural ability allied to workrate.
On a personal level I never saw Rooney as a Pele level talent, thought I must be missing something somewhere with his talent level, I saw him being as good as he turned out to be, even as a teenager, a brilliant player, for the club but not in the truly elite level due to his technique/talent level.
But Rooney tortured the league, an all action number 10 while Ronaldo was an inconsistent winger, talented but inconsistent.
Im not saying Ronaldo was a bad player, far from it, but Rooney took European football by storm. He automatically became the hub of our team.
When Ronaldo stopped being a winger he kicked on, but when he hugged the touchline he wasnt Rooney class
Nice interview - I always thought Darmian was a bright and personable individual and it is a shame his footballing skills were not up to the EPL - I wish him well and hope he gets to represent italy in the Euros.
Sorry man, but that's not a great analogy. That's not at all what was happening in the early assessments of CR7 and Rooney. Rooney was just a better player in their early years together not because of physical abilities because CR7 was pretty tough even as a young player, and had a motor and speed to go all game. Rooney just had a more complete package that could impact the team more than CR7 could at the time, but don't read that and think that means CR7 was a passenger, he had a big role as well, but he was not as polished as Rooney and while you hope for the best as far as development, nothing is guaranteed .
SAF called Rooney the best player in England in the last 30 years the next year after the quote about CR7 you bring up. When Rooney burst on the scene, he was considered the best young talent. Whatever your memory is of him, I can promise you that was the conversation at the time, he came after CR7 but was more impressive at first. CR7 was getting attention mainly for his tricks at the time which sometimes created danger, and sometimes created nothing but a blooper, he was not the impactful young player Rooney was early on.
For as little weight as I give individual awards, Rooney did win the Golden Boy over CR7, so you can't say he was never on the level of CR7 when it was pretty clear at the time he was above him. And when he came into the club, his impact was greater than CR7 who was still very raw in his decision-making and composure.
Rooneys legacy has undoubtedly been harmed (and unfairly so IMO) by playing in the same team as Ronaldo for so long. Look at Rooneys career in isolation and its tremendous - a huge success story. All time top scorer for United and England. He is a legend of the club.
Ronaldo is obviously in the discussion for GOAT. For me the difference in talent between the two was marginal (and I can definitely see an argument for saying that Rooney had more natural footballing talent), but mentally and physically Ronaldo was always on a different planet. Not just to Rooney but to 99% of every footballer. Rooney has ended up looking poorer by comparison, but I dont think its fair to downplay what Rooney achieved as a player just because he was lucky (or unlucky) enough to play in the same team as a GOAT.
Exactly.
Rooney was considered a bigger talent than Cristiano early one.
For the first 3 seasons at United, Cristiano's game was about giving the ball away time and again, doing unnecessary tricks and flicks, running into blind alleys, making wrong decisions etc. However, things changed after Germany 2006 when he became a more direct footballer, cutout the nonesense and produced his best ever season in terms of overall play and influence on the United attack. From than on its been pretty much goals galore even if he has not reached the same level of all round play. This comes from his maniacal work ethic and unsatiable desire to be the best. He is also very smart and knows that goalscorers will always get more recognition than any other outfield player regardless of how brilliant they are.
Rooney on the other hand did not take care of himself and therefore did not fulfill his initial promise although he had a good career.
If Ronaldo was a generational talent, his game would be far, far more rounded than what it has been for the majority of his career. I would say him, along with messi, Pele and Gerd Muller are the greatest goal scorers the game has ever seen. But the likes of Messi and Pele also combine it with a level of allround play that ronaldo has never reached close to. Take most games (07-09 at united and 10-18 at Madrid) in which ronaldo hasnt scored a goal and you wont even notice him.
Looking at what Mbappe has achieved at his age (especially in comparison to Rashford) shows just how exceptional Mbappe is
21 years old and 3 league titles (with 2 teams) and a world cup is far more than many players will ever have achieved
For comparison as Mbappe turned 21 this season compare him to the following in the seasons they turned 21and looking at top flight games only
Mbappe
34 international games and 13 goals
117 league games and 80 goals
33 European games and 19 goals
179 club games and 117 goals
Rashford (at end of 2019 season)
31 international games and 6 goals
111 League games and 27 goals
32 European Games and 9 goals
170 Club games and 45 goals
Even up against Messi and Ronaldo
Ronaldo (at end of 2006 season)
41 international games and 15 goals
120 league games and 21 goals
24 European games and 1 goal
161 club games and 32 goals
Messi (at end of 2009 season)
44 international games and 13 goals
109 league games and 54 goals
32 European games and 17 goals
161 club games and 80 goals
Its almost but not quite original Ronaldo numbers (end of 1998 season - pre injury)
44 international games and 29 goals
129 league games and 113 goals
37 continental games and 30 goals
200 total club games and 179 goals
Rashford is a really good player and arguably our best - but he aint Mbappe
21 years old and 3 league titles (with 2 teams) and a world cup is far more than many players will ever have achieved
For comparison as Mbappe turned 21 this season compare him to the following in the seasons they turned 21and looking at top flight games only
Mbappe
34 international games and 13 goals
117 league games and 80 goals
33 European games and 19 goals
179 club games and 117 goals
Rashford (at end of 2019 season)
31 international games and 6 goals
111 League games and 27 goals
32 European Games and 9 goals
170 Club games and 45 goals
Even up against Messi and Ronaldo
Ronaldo (at end of 2006 season)
41 international games and 15 goals
120 league games and 21 goals
24 European games and 1 goal
161 club games and 32 goals
Messi (at end of 2009 season)
44 international games and 13 goals
109 league games and 54 goals
32 European games and 17 goals
161 club games and 80 goals
Its almost but not quite original Ronaldo numbers (end of 1998 season - pre injury)
44 international games and 29 goals
129 league games and 113 goals
37 continental games and 30 goals
200 total club games and 179 goals
Rashford is a really good player and arguably our best - but he aint Mbappe
Rashford definetly reminds me of Ronaldo between 2005 and 2006. Still not a complete product but on the rise. Can he reach greater heights remains to be seen
Spot on
I don't think I've ever seen a player as good as Rooney from the age of 16-18. I wouldn't say he is poor mentally either which is why Ronaldo became better. It's purely because Ronaldo has a freak-like mental determination. Rooney admits himself that he could have been more selfish at times, he should have scored more for United.
Well, he was more consistent between 2003 to early 2006. Ronaldo would always give good crosses, a few skillfull dribbles and some goals, but he didn't have the game-to game impact Rooney had.
Like I said, after 2006 World Cup Ronaldo started getting consistent.
Off the top of my head, Rooney had the bigger impact in the group stages. His performances against Croatia, France and Switzerland are generally considered amazing.
Don't reduce football to stats.It ignores alot of other aspects like the overall play and the position of the player eg cristiano early on was a winger, while messi was a playmaker playing wide and ronaldo Brazil was always a no 9.[/QUOTE]
I hope United can get sancho because imo he is actually more talented and if he improves on what already has can actually win the ballondor.
Rashford, as I said earlier will need to work on scoring goals to cover up other deficiencies in order to achieve wider recognition
Rashford, as I said earlier will need to work on scoring goals to cover up other deficiencies in order to achieve wider recognition
Last edited:
Most people outside of Spain did not know messi until 2005 youth world cup.But for those who knew him, he was already the generations greatest football talent.
Barcelona had put a release clause in his contract of 100 million US dollars which was the same as for Ronaldinho, the BPITW at the time. Outside of spain, from the time people discovered messi he was considered the most talented footballer of his generation ahead of rooney. Keeping in mind that messi is 2-3 years younger than rooney.
Remember that messi scored a hat trick at age 19 in el clasico something even a prime cristiano, a player who literally plays to score goals never managed. Not to forget the individual slalom vs getafe , a motm performance vs Chelsea at 18 years etc. Imo, if it wasnt for recurrent injuries, messi would have won the ballondor by age 20 (instead he finished 3rd that year despite those injuries), that is how good he already was.
Rooney had a bigger exposure a bit prior to Messi, but yeah for me and most people it's the Joan Gamper trophy game against Juventus that convinced me that as good as Rooney and CR7 might become, this Leo Messi kid is going to be the best, even if it'll start later than Rooney. It's really incredible though how he's managed to stay healthy so much after some rough stretches of muscle injuries. Changing his diet and preparation is up there as one of Guardiola's greatest contributions as Barca's coach.
You can also catch the full game here for those interested.
You can also catch the full game here for those interested.
Yeh I always felt Ronaldo is more talented, whereas Rooney is more developed in their younger ages. You may argue Ronaldo has more potential or higher ceiling, but I do also think It is not wrong to say Rooney is better player at younger age too. Obviously the trajectory of their development is very different: with Ronaldo you see him improves a lot every year, whereas for Rooney, he more or less near his peak in his early age.
At the start, Rooney was slightly ahead, but by end of their career, they are already miles apart.
I am not saying Messi isn’t best young talent around, but he wasn’t as highly rated or hyped as Rooney at their early ages. I remember the best young talent at the time was Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi. And Rooney was definitely rated higher than the other 2. I mean, just look at his stats:
Rooney (age 17-22)
02-03: 8 goals in 37 games
03-04: 9 goals in 40 games
04-05: 17 goals in 43 games
05-06: 19 goals in 48 games
06-07: 23 goals in 55 games
07-08: 18 goals in 43 games
Messi (age 17-20)
04-05: 1 goals in 9 games
05-06: 8 goals in 25 games
06-07: 17 goals in 36 games
07-08: 16 goals in 40 games
Ronaldo (age 18-22)
03-04: 6 goals in 40 games
04-05: 9 goals in 56 games
05-06: 12 goals in 47 games
06-07: 23 goals in 53 games
07-08: 42 goals in 49 games
Comparison of the 3 in same period:
03-04: Rooney=Ronaldo
04-05: Rooney>Ronaldo>Messi
05-06: Rooney>Ronaldo>Messi
06-07: Ronaldo>>>Rooney=Messi
07-08: Ronaldo>>>>>Rooney=Messi
08-20: Messi=Ronaldo>>>>>>>>>>>Rooney
If comparing them in same period, as you see, from 04-06, the first 2 years Messi start playing at highest level, Rooney is clearly ahead of him, that’s not even up to debate (although Messi was 2 years younger). Then from 06-08, Messi start playing at the same level as Rooney, and it was at that time comparison of Rooney vs Ronaldo vs Messi for best young talent start going strong, and of course Ronaldo was clearly ahead. Since then, from 08 onwards, of course Messi becomes far better. And next decades or so, it’s all about Messi vs Ronaldo. Rooney is totally forgotten and out of the picture completely.
Last edited:
Bizarre statement. He was already starting to become a better player towards the end of the 05/06 season. I remember watching him at the WC and was convinced that he would have a great season for us.
Yes Rooney was more mature physically and mentally, over a season Rooney would be the better player, but one of games, the high peaks, Ronaldo even in the early years was capable of higher peaks as he had more ability. Doesnt always pan out, there were players with more ability than Roy Keane for example, but there weren’t many better players than him.
The difference when talking about Rooney and Ronaldo is that both were exceptional players, but Ronaldo I always felt was top 2-3 players in the world level talent, massively over scrutinised in England though, for years you’d honestly think he was a poor player the way the media treated him, then he suddenly turned it around? Not really he just matured, a bit like Rashford is doing now but again he’s English so doesn’t get scrutinised like foreign players do in England, once Ronaldo put everything together he was always going to be the better player because he always had a lot more ability.
Is it?
The English media created a shitstorm around that wink, to the point where CR7 was afraid of coming back to England, and some people can shrink from that, and others (especially uber competitors like CR7) can dig in and come out to face the heat. I don't think it's THE factor of his improvements by any stretch, but I do believe the reaction he got from that incident was a strong added motivator to come out and shut everybody up, it also was the same season where he really improved his output (by double digits for the first time).
It's not quite the same thing, but it kind of reminds me of when Kobe Bryant got accused of rape and was becoming a hated person and came out and put the league on notice dropping 30/40/50 point games like they were going out of business. I think adversity like that brings the best out of those mega competitors.
I actually think he did improves alot, although he was very talented and definitely one of worlds best wonderkid at the beginning, but the way he improves his end products and then maintain it consistently over the years, and the way he developing more and more different skills sets, was just so amazing to watch. I mean, at very beginning he was all about pace and skill, with lots of tricks to entertain the fans. But then you start seeing him developing those new strength, such as thunder shots, knuckleball free kicks, finishing, off ball movement, composure, header, leadership, determination, decision making, while maintain high level of consistency, hunger for goals at the same time etc Those kind of things you just don't see him have it at the beginning.
I honestly do not know whether was it an added motivation for him but from memory it blew over pretty quickly. After a few games into the season it was almost like an afterthought.
Here's Ronaldo at the 2006 WC:
I remember thinking that he looked visibly stronger and faster. His decision-making and pitch effectiveness seemed to have improved tremendously too. I was convinced he would have a great season.
Didn’t Mourinho once say something like that if the whole team had the work ethic of Rashford, we will be champions.
Surely Mbappe is ahead of Rashford, but majority of the goals he scored is in French league though, and with dominant side too. Let's just say, if he plays in England for Man Utd in past few years, I doubt think he can score as many.