Matteo Darmian: 'Rashford can reach Mbappé level and win Ballon d'Or'

A better player than Martial and more dangerous than him. But Mpabbe? Im unsure.

But he was very very good before his injury. If he kreps getting better and better, who knows?

But for sure our best attacker by a mile
 
harms said:
By the way, that I agree with. It's just that Ballon d'Or level requires you to be the best in the world and not simply one of — like, say, Rooney was or Agüero was/is...
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That's the FIFA award not the Ballon d'Or, the Ballon d'Or went back to its original goal which is to celebrate the best performer of the year not the best player in the world. If Rashford has a great season where United or England win an international competition then he has a real chance to win it.
 
Does a player have to be the most talented in the world to win the Ballon dor? You obviously have to be a world class player, but if Rashford gets to that level, then, with a bit of luck and him being a mainstay in us winning CL and the League he could win it despite Mbappe being more talented of the two. Truth is, no one knows at the minute. I doubt many people expected Ronaldo to go up so many levels in the space of 18 to 24 months. Personally, I always thought it was going to be Rooney that was going to the best and the most influential player for years to come when they were both starting their careers at United.
 
-Supreme- said:
Okay, my point still stands - he needs to start perform over a course of the season
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He would definitely finish this season on a high note if not for the injury. He was impressive in a team without Bruno and Pogba, I'm excited to see what he can do with both.
 
Okay, I'm leaving this be as I don't like the role I have assumed here. If I was a betting man, I wouldn't bet anything on him winning, although theoretically, if the stars aligned, with England winning the World Cup etc., I guess he has a chance.
 
That comparison with Mbappe is really tiresome. I will just say that Rashford would be scoring for fun in that league. Mbappe would not have a higher output for Utd than Rashford. Both are huge talents and given they will stay clear of injury will have great future in the game.
 
harms said:
Okay, I'm leaving this be as I don't like the role I have assumed here. If I was a betting man, I wouldn't bet anything on him winning, although theoretically, if the stars aligned, with England winning the World Cup etc., I guess he has a chance.
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I actually agree with you, I wouldn't bet on Rashford either but objectively winning the Ballon d'Or is doable under the right circumstances and he would have to be the best player in the team which is even more doubtful. For England I feel that Sancho is going to be the headliner while with United I feel that Bruno Fernandes, Pogba and even Greenwood have a special aura. I see Rashford being our David Villa/Lewandowki a player that always excel and his recognize for his talent but that somehow feels like a sidekick.
 
JPRouve said:
I actually agree with you, I wouldn't bet on Rashford either but objectively winning the Ballon d'Or is doable under the right circumstances and he would have to be the best player in the team which is even more doubtful. For England I feel that Sancho is going to be the headliner while with United I feel that Bruno Fernandes, Pogba and even Greenwood have a special aura. I see Rashford being our David Villa/Lewandowki a player that always excel and his recognize for his talent but that somehow feels like a sidekick.
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I agree in general, but I think him being a homegrown academy player will make this impossible. He has a lot of hype and marketing behind him at Utd, due to having that status.
 
He'sRaldo said:
I agree in general, but I think him being a homegrown academy player will make this impossible. He has a lot of hype and marketing behind him at Utd, due to having that status.
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Which is irrelevant from the point of view of the Ballon d'Or and outside United.
 
Le Red said:
He would definitely finish this season on a high note if not for the injury. He was impressive in a team without Bruno and Pogba, I'm excited to see what he can do with both.
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Yep. Without Bruno, Pogba and a fair few games without Martial, he was right in the race for the golden boot. He was looking incredible.
 
Yagami said:
Yep. Without Bruno, Pogba and a fair few games without Martial, he was right in the race for the golden boot. He was looking incredible.
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He was doing next to nothing without Martial which coinceded with the period of time where some decided to judge his personality and focus.
 
JPRouve said:
Which is irrelevant from the point of view of the Ballon d'Or and outside United.
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Yes, which is why I agree with your post. I don't think Utd fans will ever see him as a sidekick though, due to the hype behind him.
 
JPRouve said:
He was doing next to nothing without Martial which coinceded with the period of time where some decided to judge his personality and focus.
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i know, but he was still scoring out of position with zero creative support.
 
Yagami said:
i know, but he was still scoring out of position with zero creative support.
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He wasn't, he scored one goal during the 5 league matches that Martial missed and scored an other one during the Liverpool game where Martial cameback, essentially two goals in 6 league games and zero in other competitions. Now when Martial came back Rashford started to score for fun, close to a goal per game for more than a month.
 
JPRouve said:
He wasn't, he scored one goal during the 5 league matches that Martial missed and scored an other one during the Liverpool game where Martial cameback, essentially two goals in 6 league games and zero in other competitions. Now when Martial came back Rashford started to score for fun, close to a goal per game for more than a month.
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Considering our terrible goalscoring record as a whole during the beginning of the season, two goals felt like twenty.

Still, despite looking poor for the most part in said period, he scored two without Tony in a team devoid of creating chances for their forwards, outside of his best position, which could've gone a long way to helping him in the race for the golden boot had he not got injured. Those two goals are nothing to be sniffed at as we saw Martial suffer from the exact same problem until Bruno came in.
 
UpWithRivers said:
If Rashford he had the likes of Klopp or Guardiola coaching him and he could stay fit he would be way ahead of where he is now. Most of of our managers couldnt even decide his best position. Looks like left now but thats only recently. If you look how Sterling went from raw to what he is now then is Rashford could get the same coaching he will be up there with the best of them. He needs to learn football intelligence. When everything s going well he is brilliant. When its not he needs to out smart his opponents. Find space. Know when to pass, where to move etc. This is what happened to Sterling. If you look at him now he knows exactly where to go and when.

Better than Mbappe? Never. Unless Mbappe declines due to injury etc
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Sterling scored 20 goals(39 apps) this season.

Rashford 19 goals (31 apps) this season.

If you look at their careers they have been very similar. Both scoring 10-13 goals a season.

Sterling had his breakthrough season in terms of goalscoring when he turned 23 and scored 23 goals. Then he has continued to score 20+ the following two seasons.


Rashford had it this year at 22 and was already on 19 goals. I'd be fairly confident that Rashford will be a 20+ a year player if he can avoid injury.
 
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Le Red said:
Vastly is a strong word. I do think he's overrated though, people talk about him like he's the Brazilian Ronaldo or something. Not even close.
He's very, very good though, there's no denying that.
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Lets just say I am here to be convinced.
I was reading some posts from PSG fans saying he cant play through the middle because he can't play with his back to goal, he cant manipulate the ball in tight spaces, he is nullified when 2 v 1 and doesnt make the runs thats needed for a central striker.
For this complete player he does seem incomplete.
 
cyberman said:
Lets just say I am here to be convinced.
I was reading some posts from PSG fans saying he cant play through the middle because he can't play with his back to goal, he cant manipulate the ball in tight spaces, he is nullified when 2 v 1 and doesnt make the runs thats needed for a central striker.
For this complete player he does seem incomplete.
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Well I wouldn't read that much into it. Those PSG supporters strike me as spoiled cnuts like the RM ones.
 
Yagami said:
Considering our terrible goalscoring record as a whole during the beginning of the season, two goals felt like twenty.

Still, despite looking poor for the most part in said period, he scored two without Tony in a team devoid of creating chances for their forwards, outside of his best position, which could've gone a long way to helping him in the race for the golden boot had he not got injured. Those two goals are nothing to be sniffed at as we saw Martial suffer from the exact same problem until Bruno came in.
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I'm not downplaying these two goals but you know perfectly that he wasn't in a race for the golden boot without Martial and the others, he suffered from their absence and as you said Martial also suffered from Rashford absence. With Martial, Bruno and Pogba, I'm sure that Rashford will shine in what I consider to be a normal context. Being alone was terrible for him and it would have been terrible for the others.
 
cyberman said:
Lets just say I am here to be convinced.
I was reading some posts from PSG fans saying he cant play through the middle because he can't play with his back to goal, he cant manipulate the ball in tight spaces, he is nullified when 2 v 1 and doesnt make the runs thats needed for a central striker.
For this complete player he does seem incomplete.
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None of that is true though, I'm not sure which fans spouted that.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm not downplaying these two goals but you know perfectly that he wasn't in a race for the golden boot without Martial and the others, he suffered from their absence and as you said Martial also suffered from Rashford absence. With Martial, Bruno and Pogba, I'm sure that Rashford will shine in what I consider to be a normal context. Being alone was terrible for him and it would have been terrible for the others.
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Oh, i didn't mean to make out that Rashford would be in the race for the golden boot had he played without Martial for a longer period of time. That was a bad period for him, and us as a team.

I was trying - and apparently failing - to make a point that he was in a golden boot race (prior to injury) despite hardly ever playing our strongest team. He played some without Martial, some without Martial and Pogba, a lot without Pogba, and hasn't played with Bruno. The part without Martial was small, and by far his worst period of performances this season, but i included it just to highlight how unlucky we've been in terms of actually getting our best players playing together this season, and how well Rashford's done in spite of this problem.
 
Yagami said:
Oh, i didn't mean to make out that Rashford would be in the race for the golden boot had he played without Martial for a longer period of time. That was a bad period for him, and us as a team.

I was trying - and apparently failing - to make a point that he was in a golden boot race (prior to injury) despite hardly ever playing our strongest team. He played some without Martial, some without Martial and Pogba, a lot without Pogba, and hasn't played with Bruno. The part without Martial was small, and by far his worst period of performances this season, but i included it just to highlight how unlucky we've been in terms of actually getting our best players playing together this season, and how well Rashford's done in spite of this problem.
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I see, I apologize I misinterpreted your point. It's true that this season if he had kept his November-December pace the entire season he would have had an incredible record, maybe near Salah's.
 
JPRouve said:
I see, I apologize I misinterpreted your point. It's true that this season if he had kept his November-December pace the entire season he would have had an incredible record, maybe near Salah's.
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No worries! I probably could've worded it more clearly myself. :)
 
Le Red said:
Rooney never had a shot at the Ballon d'Or because his competition was Messi and Ronaldo and because he was severely injured in arguably his best season where he'd be a major contender had it not happened, so this point is moot.
Mbappe is younger and better than Rashford, but this doesn't tell the whole story, a footballer's development is very unpredictable and so often young phenomenons stale while other players have a later peak.
Right now Rashford is up there with the most promising players in the world, so a Ballon d'Or is not out of question, although I wouldn't put my money on it happening.
Truth be told, it shall be a very underwhelming battle for the title of best player in the world. The possible contenders are not even close to Messi and Ronaldo. They are not close to recent legends like Xavi, Iniesta and Robben. They are not close to the legends of the 90s or 00s either.
Today we have good players with very high tactical functionality, but I miss the sheer talent of the last decades.
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Even without Ronaldo and Messi, Rooney was never outright 3rd best player in the world was he? Neither was someone like Aguero, and he was putting in crazy numbers from young, most players who win the B’allon D’or are normally generation defining players, Rivaldo, Figo, Zidane Ronaldinho Messi, R9 that is the level you have to be at unless your Owen of course.
 
JPRouve said:
I actually agree with you, I wouldn't bet on Rashford either but objectively winning the Ballon d'Or is doable under the right circumstances and he would have to be the best player in the team which is even more doubtful. For England I feel that Sancho is going to be the headliner while with United I feel that Bruno Fernandes, Pogba and even Greenwood have a special aura. I see Rashford being our David Villa/Lewandowki a player that always excel and his recognize for his talent but that somehow feels like a sidekick.
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I love Rashford and dont want my next sentence taking out of context. With that said I would be very worried if he is our best player within the next 5 years. if we want to be the best we will need a lot more than he is capable of. Looking at our team Pogba was the best player since his time here (de gea excluded) and even that was never enough.
 
arthurka said:
That comparison with Mbappe is really tiresome. I will just say that Rashford would be scoring for fun in that league. Mbappe would not have a higher output for Utd than Rashford. Both are huge talents and given they will stay clear of injury will have great future in the game.
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What’s your justification for this?
 
thegregster said:
Look at his goal scoring record v the rest of the top 6. Its very impressive.

15 in 32 apps.


https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashfords-record-against-the-top-6.444364/page-6#post-25014201
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If he scores alot of goals and united are successful especially in the champions league, he could win the ballond'or even if his allround play or the quality of goals aren't great. Modern football hypes up goalscorers to no end. If Gerd muller played today he would be in the GOAT conversation for sure.

But his goalscoring is still not Cristiano level so that everything else in his game can be ignored and he runs away with the credit. Neither is his allround play at the elite level so his lack of goals can be ignored. And most importantly, United are not succesful at this moment in time.

Given that he is unlikely to achieve world class all round play, his best bet on achieving wider recognition is working on goal scoring by honing his off the ball movement and developing an insatiable appetite for goals plus United buying players capable of creating chances for him so that he score 40-50 goals a year.
 
cyberman said:
Lets just say I am here to be convinced.
I was reading some posts from PSG fans saying he cant play through the middle because he can't play with his back to goal, he cant manipulate the ball in tight spaces, he is nullified when 2 v 1 and doesnt make the runs thats needed for a central striker.
For this complete player he does seem incomplete.
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Too be fair Rashford is not really good with his back to goal. If you think Mbappe is overrated that is fair and your opinion but I think you’ll be proven wrong
 
noodlehair said:
Rooney is a weird comparison as he was also the better looking player out of him and Ronaldo for quite a few years.
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Rooney was probably a better player at Everton than Ronaldo was at Sporting. I'm surprised fergie only signed him in 2004 and not in 03-04 alongside Ronaldo.

It can be argued Rooney had a better Euro 2004 despite Ronaldo playing more games.

2004-05 and 05-06 Rooney was scoring more and had a ruthless footballing agression and drive to suceed but from 06-07 onwards Ronaldo just went a hundred steps ahead of him. It was weird.
 
SilentWitness said:
What’s your justification for this?
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From watching them both.. Rashford is one of the biggest talents in world football and so is Mbappe. Mbappe has been playing for a much better assemble of players than Rashford and after watching almost all players who came through the doors at Utd crumble Mbappe would have struggled here too.
 
Luke1995 said:
Rooney was probably a better player at Everton than Ronaldo was at Sporting. I'm surprised fergie only signed him in 2004 and not in 03-04 alongside Ronaldo.

It can be argued Rooney had a better Euro 2004 despite Ronaldo playing more games.

2004-05 and 05-06 Rooney was scoring more and had a ruthless footballing agression and drive to suceed but from 06-07 onwards Ronaldo just went a hundred steps ahead of him. It was weird.
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Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
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He was considered the bigger talent by most experts (Rooney), and rightfully so. He had the aggression, technique, power, and finishing ability at 17 that put him on the map. England didn't have the best squad, at least a collective, but they struggled most when he went off injured. Cristiano was an impressive trickster with a motor to go along with it and a never-say-die attitude but I remember 2004 very well and no way was Cristiano better than Rooney back then. I think the season of the whole winking incident in 2006 is the time where Cristiano became the clear and superior player.
 
Not a chance. In a couple of years we'll have dumped him.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
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What the feck? Rooney as a kid was just as talented as Ronaldo. Rooney had fecking everything. Ronaldo was a kid with tricks but literally no end product. His first season was infuriating. Rooney had nearly everything from a very early age.
 
JPRouve said:
I actually agree with you, I wouldn't bet on Rashford either but objectively winning the Ballon d'Or is doable under the right circumstances and he would have to be the best player in the team which is even more doubtful. For England I feel that Sancho is going to be the headliner while with United I feel that Bruno Fernandes, Pogba and even Greenwood have a special aura. I see Rashford being our David Villa/Lewandowki a player that always excel and his recognize for his talent but that somehow feels like a sidekick.
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If our team clicks, it's gonna be so fecking sweet :drool:

I disagree with your comments about Rashford eventually being a sideliner. I personally think his growth in the last 3-4 months of the season (and in his 'short' career so far) has shown to me he's actually going to be one of, if not our number 1 driving focus. With the talents you've bolded, obviously he won't be the de facto standout player but I think his game and those mentioned actually need each other to really thrive.

We need a dominant goal scorer and whether Rashford has that in him is separate to the fact that he will most likely benefit from those providing to him from midfield AND the supporting play from Martial/Sancho (fingers crossed). By default, if we are to play our best and other players performing to their best, Rashford will be central to that.

I know it's incredibly outlandish to compare him to Ronaldo but his trajectory in terms of drive/mentality, athletic and technical attributes are so freakishly similar. I mention the last 3-4 months because I think something has clicked where his game became a bit more focused on end result and producing the goods in terms of goals/assists, which again reminds me of Ronnie. I know it's cringe to say but it's very 'alpha'. Obviously it still depends on getting our best players on the pitch consistently and coached well but as others has alluded to, if Rashford can 'perform' (albeit inconsistent himself) in the sh|te times, imagine his output when it's clicking?

It's as much gut feeling as basing on what I'm seeing but there you go :D. It does make me excited for team when the footy starts..
 
Sayros said:
He was considered the bigger talent by most experts (Rooney), and rightfully so. He had the aggression, technique, power, and finishing ability at 17 that put him on the map. England didn't have the best squad, at least a collective, but they struggled most when he went off injured. Cristiano was an impressive trickster with a motor to go along with it and a never-say-die attitude but I remember 2004 very well and no way was Cristiano better than Rooney back then. I think the season of the whole winking incident in 2006 is the time where Cristiano became the clear and superior player.
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He (Rooney) also had an inconsistent first touch, equally low bottom level (that never got pointed out), and a top level that was never as high as Ronaldo. Ronaldos top level was pure magic. Rightfully so ? Where are you basing that logic ? Ronaldo is one of the greatest players who ever lived....that some English media wanted to build Rooney up into the white Pele, doesn’t justify that rationale....I will repeat Rooney was never actually as good as Ronaldo, Ronaldo toyed with Rooney at Old Trafford, Rooney should’ve been sent off because he did t know what else to do but lash out. Rooney was a great player for us. Ronaldo was always on another level though.
 
0le said:
What the feck? Rooney as a kid was just as talented as Ronaldo. Rooney had fecking everything. Ronaldo was a kid with tricks but literally no end product. His first season was infuriating. Rooney had nearly everything from a very early age.
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wow Rooney had everything and Ronaldo was merely a kid with tricks and no end product. ok.

id put it like this, Rooney had end product, not great end product....his single season stats were only great in one season, but end product. Ronaldo had everything....he just needed to put it all together. Once Ronaldo became the sum of his parts Rooney was merely an aide, he couldn’t live at that level.....only Messi could. Rooney was never as talented. He was English. Rooney never had nearly everything, but he was a great player. Just not a generational talent like Ronaldo
 
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