[Obiorahking_]

I can't really be arsed pulling up stats etc. I know from what I have seen with my own eyes that he's extremely average defensively, that's really not hard to see. As I said, the fact that he is indeed average defensively, means that he doesn't make up for his horrible offensive work with the defensive aspect of his game.

Have you watched any of our matches? He basically kills every single attack when he touches the ball. His first touch is shocking, he is ponderous in possession and he rarely manages to get the ball into the box. If you are happy with him / this form, then feck me, you have very low expectations from what a fullback should be.

FYI - Bellerin is a far better defender.

Once again there is absolutely no substance as to what you are saying in terms of his defense. Telling me the same unsupported bullshit over and over again regardless of the Cafe's stupid opinion does not add any validity towards it.

Crossing is clearly his weakness. It has been his weakness all of his career. He clearly must do better here but as I said before he never really was put into a position where crossing would be a huge part of his game, because you don't see a lot of contested crossing in Italian football. That said it is nothing that can't get better overtime. After all, last year Valencia learned how to float his crosses more and despite what people said he benefited greatly for it. Possession he has been inconsistent. Some games, like West Brom, he can quite sloppy and careless and that can lead to turnovers but most of the times he is quite neat and tidy in posession while also possesing the ability to play very direct forward passes. When we actually play with in intent and quickness Darmian thrives more, when we play very slow and stagnant, it forces him to think too much and make the wrong play rather than having confidence in his ability.

I am not saying by any stretch that I am happy with what he is doing right now. He can clearly be better and end up being a top FB in the game right now, but that faith that you and the rest of the mainstream Cafe put into the young acedemy guys like Riley or Varela, we must put in Darmian as well. He is coming off injury and still adapting to a completely different setting and culture. There must be perspective that not everything is instantaneous, we have seen it happen many times in the history of United where guys have come around with time. Why should the terms be different with Darmian? Are we in such a hurry to improve our defense even though we held the best defense in the premier league for some time now a defense that Darmian has vastly contributed to?

Furthermore what in Gods name could possibly make you think that he is a good defender. First off, he openly came out in an article just before the New Year on how he never learned how to defend. Second of all, virtually every game I watch him play he is constantly getting murdered 1 v 1. FFs Ashley Young completely wrecked him last season when we played them in the 1-1 stalemate.

 

[NoPace]

Darmian was following/marking Sessegnon, it was Rashfords man who put the cross in. Unfortunately he tucked in far too much trying to close off space, but really there was no danger there. He gave the LB far too much room to pick a nice cross, then Blind lost Rondon trying to anticipate where the ball was going.

Either way you can't really blame Darmian for that goal.

Looks like Blind's fault to me. Surely he should just be marking Rondon, not betting on the cross going to a specific spot.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Once again there is absolutely no substance as to what you are saying in terms of his defense. Telling me the same unsupported bullshit over and over again regardless of the Cafe's stupid opinion does not add any validity towards it.

Crossing is clearly his weakness. It has been his weakness all of his career. He clearly must do better here but as I said before he never really was put into a position where crossing would be a huge part of his game, because you don't see a lot of contested crossing in Italian football. That said it is nothing that can't get better overtime. After all, last year Valencia learned how to float his crosses more and despite what people said he benefited greatly for it. Possession he has been inconsistent. Some games, like West Brom, he can quite sloppy and careless and that can lead to turnovers but most of the times he is quite neat and tidy in posession while also possesing the ability to play very direct forward passes. When we actually play with in intent and quickness Darmian thrives more, when we play very slow and stagnant, it forces him to think too much and make the wrong play rather than having confidence in his ability.

I am not saying by any stretch that I am happy with what he is doing right now. He can clearly be better and end up being a top FB in the game right now, but that faith that you and the rest of the mainstream Cafe put into the young acedemy guys like Riley or Varela, we must put in Darmian as well. He is coming off injury and still adapting to a completely different setting and culture. There must be perspective that not everything is instantaneous, we have seen it happen many times in the history of United where guys have come around with time. Why should the terms be different with Darmian? Are we in such a hurry to improve our defense even though we held the best defense in the premier league for some time now a defense that Darmian has vastly contributed to?

Furthermore what in Gods name could possibly make you think that he is a good defender. First off, he openly came out in an article just before the New Year on how he never learned how to defend. Second of all, virtually every game I watch him play he is constantly getting murdered 1 v 1. FFs Ashley Young completely wrecked him last season when we played them in the 1-1 stalemate.

Ok, well obviously your opinion is the only one that matters to you. It's clear to see that Darmian is nothing more than average in the defensive department, if you want to believe different, then that's certainly your prerogative. Darmian has done absolutely nothing to warrant being called 'very good defensively' or anything of the sort. He has had plenty of mares defensively and he often lacks the pace to get back into position.

Anyhow, I can't be arsed with a massively long reply, the fact of the matter is that Darmian has been nowhere near good enough in his role as a fullback; he isn't good enough defensively for his shocking offensive work to be overlooked. As I have previously stated, I would give him another season to see how he fares but right now, I would rather we had Valencia back there.

As for Bellerin, he's a far superior fullback. He has massively improved defensively this season and is far, far younger. Is he the finished product? Nope, but he's young and very promising. As I said, his energy and dynamism makes him the kind of fullback that I absolutely love, much like Shaw.

 

[Dans]

You both seem to be saying the same thing but one of you doesn't get that by the looks.

I agree that Darmian so far has not shown himself to be anything more than an average player.

 

[pocco]

Who's turned out the better buy so far then, Clyne or Darmian? Clyne was getting a bit of praise from the scousers a couple of weeks back.

 

[harms]

Who's turned out the better buy so far then, Clyne or Darmian? Clyne was getting a bit of praise from the scousers a couple of weeks back.

Clyne He is decent
Still have hops for Darmian though

 

[Robbie Boy]

Who's turned out the better buy so far then, Clyne or Darmian? Clyne was getting a bit of praise from the scousers a couple of weeks back.

Meh, Clyne probably shades it this season but he hasn't lived up to the hype either.

 

[kouroux]

Once again there is absolutely no substance as to what you are saying in terms of his defense. Telling me the same unsupported bullshit over and over again regardless of the Cafe's stupid opinion does not add any validity towards it.

Crossing is clearly his weakness. It has been his weakness all of his career. He clearly must do better here but as I said before he never really was put into a position where crossing would be a huge part of his game, because you don't see a lot of contested crossing in Italian football. That said it is nothing that can't get better overtime. After all, last year Valencia learned how to float his crosses more and despite what people said he benefited greatly for it. Possession he has been inconsistent. Some games, like West Brom, he can quite sloppy and careless and that can lead to turnovers but most of the times he is quite neat and tidy in posession while also possesing the ability to play very direct forward passes. When we actually play with in intent and quickness Darmian thrives more, when we play very slow and stagnant, it forces him to think too much and make the wrong play rather than having confidence in his ability.

I am not saying by any stretch that I am happy with what he is doing right now. He can clearly be better and end up being a top FB in the game right now, but that faith that you and the rest of the mainstream Cafe put into the young acedemy guys like Riley or Varela, we must put in Darmian as well. He is coming off injury and still adapting to a completely different setting and culture. There must be perspective that not everything is instantaneous, we have seen it happen many times in the history of United where guys have come around with time. Why should the terms be different with Darmian? Are we in such a hurry to improve our defense even though we held the best defense in the premier league for some time now a defense that Darmian has vastly contributed to?

Furthermore what in Gods name could possibly make you think that he is a good defender. First off, he openly came out in an article just before the New Year on how he never learned how to defend. Second of all, virtually every game I watch him play he is constantly getting murdered 1 v 1. FFs Ashley Young completely wrecked him last season when we played them in the 1-1 stalemate.

When was this exactly ? I remember Valencia being a very good crosser but that was a few years ago. I don't know why it happened but he suddenly decided to change crossing techniques and its efficiency reduced terribly.

 

[SilentWitness]

You'd think his performances might make people appreciate Valencia more but apparently not.

Valencia last season vs Zabeleta 13/14, Azpilicueta 14/15 and Bellerin this season.

I feel like the 'defence score' doesn't account to defensive characteristics like positioning which Valencia is really bad at.

 

[stevoc]

You'd think his performances might make people appreciate Valencia more but apparently not.

Valencia last season vs Zabeleta 13/14, Azpilicueta 14/15 and Bellerin this season.

Darmians performances have definitely made me appreciate Tony more in terms of which one i would prefer in the side anyway. Given the choice it's Tony every day of the week and twice on sunday for me.

Having said that though those stats do seem a bit misleading to me (as stats often are). Valencia is not a top defender and never will be. Would i be happy with him as back up to an actual RB yes, but we really should have a better player than Valencia as first choice in my opinion. As to be fair Valencia isn't the greatest going forward either, which is strange as he was one of the best wingers around not so long ago.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I feel like the 'defence score' doesn't account to defensive characteristics like positioning which Valencia is really bad at.

I don't think positioning can be measured easily by stats, that's the problem with relying on stats - it will be things like clearances, blocks and interceptions

 

[AN17]

His crossing is atrocious and makes Valencia a worldie on that aspect. Heck , even CBJ and Varela have put in better crosses than Darmian. Having said that I'd like him to get one more season before giving a final verdict. Maybe he'll surprise us like Young did.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I ll give him another season, hopefully under a different manager

 

[stevoc]

Guardiola wanted him at Bayern apparently. He looked like a steal at the beginning of the season and was subbed a few times for Valencia because he was doing so much running up and down the line that he looked out on his feet, then came that match where he got booked and pulled at half time and seems like he's never been the same since. But as @Renegade81 mentioned there's been numerous top players now get worse gradually after signing for us. I mean he should be able to pass the ball at a minimum.

Don't know if that one's true but it would have been a strange move.

Darmian is pretty much the antithesis of what Guardiola seems to like in fullback's. They dodged a bullet there.

 

[Sigma]

You'd think his performances might make people appreciate Valencia more but apparently not.

Valencia last season vs Zabeleta 13/14, Azpilicueta 14/15 and Bellerin this season.

he's so underrated on the caf. People keep saying his positioning is bad, but who cares, he makes up for it with pace and strength. I don't care how the ball is kept out just that is. Same can be said with de Gea saving with his feet rather than his hands.

 

[Cassidy]

he's so underrated on the caf. People keep saying his positioning is bad, but who cares, he makes up for it with pace and strength. I don't care how the ball is kept out just that is. Same can be said with de Gea saving with his feet rather than his hands.

The De Gea part is more of a skill, it is technically actually correct in some situations to use your feet as a keeper (times when attempting to get down to the ball will mean the ball will be past you before you can get your hands/body down)

I like Valencia however Darmian is getting most of his stick for his attacking contribution and tbh Valencia is no better.

As for his positioning, well it does cost us at times, but he is a very good option at RB.

 

[Sigma]

The De Gea part is more of a skill, it is technically actually correct in some situations to use your feet as a keeper (times when attempting to get down to the ball will mean the ball will be past you before you can get your hands/body down)

I like Valencia however Darmian is getting most of his stick for his attacking contribution and tbh Valencia is no better.

As for his positioning, well it does cost us at times, but he is a very good option at RB.

I'm just saying that there are more ways than one to defend. Of course sometimes it doesn't work but also sometimes de Gea doesn't save it. Also I think Valencia is far better than Darmain going forward. He has good chemistry with Mata/Herrera (his link up play in general is very good) and he makes good runs forward with his pace and strength to stretch play.

 

[Nobby style]

The De Gea part is more of a skill, it is technically actually correct in some situations to use your feet as a keeper (times when attempting to get down to the ball will mean the ball will be past you before you can get your hands/body down)

I like Valencia however Darmian is getting most of his stick for his attacking contribution and tbh Valencia is no better.

As for his positioning, well it does cost us at times, but he is a very good option at RB.

I think the worst part is his defense. The guy is a certified liability. Just look at the last couple of matches. The one he got hurt in he gave up an absurd foul that they scored on. Comes back a week ago for 20 minutes and gets beaten off a dead ball and gets away with a pathetic penalty which should´ve lost us the match. I still think last Sunday he should´ve done better on the cross that passed right in front of his gob. If you notice, it´s no coincidence opposing sides usually attack his side of the pitch.

I can´t understand why Darmian should be kept around. Varela has obviously won the place and should be fully developed with Valencia backing him up and starting sometimes, while Young or another youth side player moves up. Let´s cut our losses and send him and his 100 excuses for being shite back to Italy. He seems to thrive there and we could still probably get a decent fee for him.

 

[stevoc]

I think the worst part is his defense. The guy is a certified liability. Just look at the last couple of matches. The one he got hurt in he gave up an absurd foul that they scored on. Comes back a week ago for 20 minutes and gets beaten off a dead ball and gets away with a pathetic penalty which should´ve lost us the match. I still think last Sunday he should´ve done better on the cross that passed right in front of his gob. If you notice, it´s no coincidence opposing sides usually attack his side of the pitch.

I can´t understand why Darmian should be kept around. Varela has obviously won the place and should be fully developed with Valencia backing him up and starting sometimes, while Young or another youth side player moves up. Let´s cut our losses and send him and his 100 excuses for being shite back to Italy. He seems to thrive there and we could still probably get a decent fee for him.

I don't know about that his attacking is pathetic. Though in general i agree his defending is awful. Outside of his first few games and that little run of 3-4 games before his latest injury he has been very poor defensively.

I'm always up for giving players time, jesus i was still hoping Anderson would come good after about 3-4 years. And if Darmian does stay i hope he does improve. But if we shipped Darmian off in the summer i wouldn't shed any tears. He has been Taibi level bad for me.

 

[SilentWitness]

he's so underrated on the caf. People keep saying his positioning is bad, but who cares, he makes up for it with pace and strength. I don't care how the ball is kept out just that is. Same can be said with de Gea saving with his feet rather than his hands.

He doesn't when he's playing people onside.

 

[Giant Midget]

Not ready to give up on him yet, but when he plays we need to make sure the full back on the other flank is attacking or our wide play is completely dead.

 

[Sigma]

Comparison between Valencia 2014-15 and Darmian 2015-16

 

[Pexbo]

He doesn't when he's playing people onside.

Which happened about twice or three times last season. Would you care to show me a full back who didn't play someone onside at some point over the course of a season?

Seriously, some of the things he got pulled up for are ridiculous. It's the equivalent of beating a striker with the stat that he missed 5 or 10 goal scoring chances last season as if all other strikers he compares to never make mistakes.

 

[Devil may care]

Valencia can't cross for shit and is dodgy positionally. Darmian can't cross for shit and is erratic defensively. Basically if either are our starting RB next season that position will be a weak link as it stands. Varela is dodgy positionally but that may be due to how good he is in attack, leaving himself short now and again, plus this is another level for him and he finished most games defensively stronger than he started them.

 

[Devil81]

I wouldn't say any of the summer signings have been great but Darmian is the only player I'd happily see gone. Weak as shite for me, he doesn't seem to have the physically attributes to make it in England.

 

[Nobby style]

He doesn't when he's playing people onside.

Not to excuse Valencia, but if you look closely, the stiff on the other side, the one who should be marking the goal scorer, is also playing him onside. Thus making Valencia irrelevant. No one seems to remember that.

 

[Scorpy]

I wouldn't say any of the summer signings have been great but Darmian is the only player I'd happily see gone. Weak as shite for me, he doesn't seem to have the physically attributes to make it in England.

Martial?

 

[berbatrick]

Not to excuse Valencia, but if you look closely, the stiff on the other side, the one who should be marking the goal scorer, is also playing him onside. Thus making Valencia irrelevant. No one seems to remember that.

IIRC, he was the CB's man.
Yes, it's Darmian's mistake, and a common (but bad) error from a fullback.
With the position Valencia has taken, that's not a slight misreading of the situation or bad coordination. He's on a different planet.
You can look at how many times a cross or opening arrives from our right when Valencia is RB. It's something that won't affect his "stats", but it shows the issues he has as a defender.

 

[Gerald G]

He is defensively good but need to improve his attacking game.

 

[ottosec]

He's been really good in the first couple of months, then he turned to shit. I wonder what happened?

Still, he's a better defender than Valencia and at the end of the day it's easier to teach him how to cross than to get Valencia a brain.

 

[stevoc]

He's been really good in the first couple of months, then he turned to shit. I wonder what happened?

Still, he's a better defender than Valencia and at the end of the day it's easier to teach him how to cross than to get Valencia a brain.

Crossing is the least of his worries right now if we're honest, he would have to start getting near the oppositions box more than once a half to have an opportunity to cross.

Lets see if he can work on his first touch, passing and stamina first before we worry about his crossing.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Ok, well obviously your opinion is the only one that matters to you. It's clear to see that Darmian is nothing more than average in the defensive department, if you want to believe different, then that's certainly your prerogative. Darmian has done absolutely nothing to warrant being called 'very good defensively' or anything of the sort. He has had plenty of mares defensively and he often lacks the pace to get back into position.

Anyhow, I can't be arsed with a massively long reply, the fact of the matter is that Darmian has been nowhere near good enough in his role as a fullback; he isn't good enough defensively for his shocking offensive work to be overlooked. As I have previously stated, I would give him another season to see how he fares but right now, I would rather we had Valencia back there.

As for Bellerin, he's a far superior fullback. He has massively improved defensively this season and is far, far younger. Is he the finished product? Nope, but he's young and very promising. As I said, his energy and dynamism makes him the kind of fullback that I absolutely love, much like Shaw.

For the third time nothing you said has offered any substance or any perspective to back up what you are saying. I will call this a stalemate and not pursue this argument any further.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Defensively he's looked impressive at times this season but on the ball he's been an absolute mess. Appears to be extremely uncomfortable with the ball at feet and he rarely seems able to even put on a cross let alone put in a good one. I wonder if he'd be worth a try at centre back once in awhile.

 

[Hojoon]

It's not just crossing that's his problem. His overall passing is poor and he has no composure when facing any pressure.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It's not just crossing that's his problem. His overall passing is poor and he has no composure when facing any pressure.

You're being too kind, he is aboslutely crap when in possession of the football. He's one of those players where you can see the cogs attempting to turn in his head whenever he has time to think about what he's doing... and then it usually turns out to be shit.

I would go as far as saying he is worst player in the entire team with the ball at his feet.

 

[clarkydaz]

You're being too kind, he is aboslutely crap when in possession of the football. He's one of those players where you can see the cogs attempting to turn in his head whenever he has time to think about what he's doing... and then it usually turns out to be shit.

I would go as far as saying he is worst player in the entire team with the ball at his feet.

Like Valencia. I guess at least Tony while limited and unspectacular doesn't feck many things up

 

[Red_Beans]

Varela should be our first choice RB for the rest of the season

 

[SilentWitness]

Which happened about twice or three times last season. Would you care to show me a full back who didn't play someone onside at some point over the course of a season?

Seriously, some of the things he got pulled up for are ridiculous. It's the equivalent of beating a striker with the stat that he missed 5 or 10 goal scoring chances last season as if all other strikers he compares to never make mistakes.

I'm sure that a lot of full-backs make careless mistakes/aren't quick enough at times but when he's been out of position it's been catastrophically bad. It's not just playing people onside though, there were times when it wasn't tracking players properly or standing off them too much. I don't blame him for it as he's not a natural defender but he really shouldn't be a starting RB at a club with CL or title aspirations. A squad player for his versatility at most.

 

[Devil81]

Martial?

Completely slipped my mind whilst making that post, of course he's been fantastic.

 

[Garethw]

He looked absolutely class when he first joined. A few months of LVG's training sessions and his form turned to shite.